Saturday, July 13, 2019

If the McEleny/MacNeil alternative plan isn't even to be considered, what *is* the alternative?

It's disappointing but not surprising that the very sensible resolution tabled by Chris McEleny and Angus MacNeil, calling for the next Holyrood or Westminster election to be used to seek an outright mandate for independence in the event that a Section 30 order is refused, has not even been allowed to go forward for consideration at the SNP conference.  However, this does not necessarily mean that the leadership would never consider the proposed course of action under any circumstances.  What it does mean is that the leadership is determined to keep an iron grip on the strategy for achieving independence, and to not give the membership any meaningful say at all.  Indeed, over the last couple of years the leadership has been pretty determined not to even keep the membership informed about what the strategy is.  At a Women for Independence event a few months ago, Nicola Sturgeon urged Yes supporters to just leave "process" to her and to get on with campaigning instead.  I'm not sure that's a sustainable position when many Yessers have had a reasonable suspicion that there isn't actually a specific plan for getting around the roadblock of Westminster's refusal to respect the mandate for a second independence referendum.

That said, another comment from Ms Sturgeon at the same event left the impression that she was minded to use the next Holyrood election to obtain a mandate, not for independence itself, but for a referendum.  Yes, I know we already have such a mandate from the 2016 election, but the theory seems to be that yet another one might somehow break down Westminster's resistance.  There was an intriguing comment in the New Statesman a week or two back that "many Scottish MPs" (whether this referred to SNP MPs, or Tory MPs, or both, wasn't made clear) now expected Nicola Sturgeon to engineer an early Holyrood election for that purpose.  I must say that if we are going to go down the road of seeking a superfluous repeat of a mandate we already have, I would much prefer it to be done in a snap election, because at least that means less valuable time would be squandered.  And it would almost be like a 'free hit', because under the rules, as long as a snap election takes place before November 2020, the next election in May 2021 would go ahead as scheduled.  So if the snap election didn't work out as hoped, we would have another chance before too long.  Probably the worst-case scenario for a snap election would be the SNP being returned as a minority government but without a pro-indy majority.  (Although at the moment it seems that a pro-indy majority would be the most likely outcome.)

*  *  *

Some good news from the Scottish subsample of the latest GB-wide YouGov poll...

SNP 45%, Conservatives 20%, Labour 13%, Liberal Democrats 10%, Brexit Party 9%, Greens 2%

YouGov's Scottish subsamples appear to be correctly structured/weighted, so the only problem with them is the small sample size.


186 comments:

  1. I can't see how persistently asking for another S30 is all that the SNP can aspire to. I'll admit, I honestly didn't realise how apathetic they were in terms of strategy. That's the ONLY way they see us securing a Velvet Exit? Years and years of us asking and being refused, all the while our devolved powers are confiscated and Scotland is plunged into a nationwide depression. In my more fragile moments, I sincerely hope that NS is indeed keeping things on the down lo, especially from the SG Civil Service who are loyal to WM - and she will decide to exercise our right to dissolve the Treaty of Union. God knows, WM have trashed it several times during the past 300 odd years.

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    1. I say you early. I say you one new time now.
      SNP SG NS WM
      How you not ever hear on constants?

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    2. Maybe a change at the top is needed and a change in the party structure? The party has used the stick of to big to fail for awhile now to stop alternative strategies from outwith the upper circle's of party. For myself I would start another party to at least give a decent alternative vision or just kick them up the backside. I think the currency issue is a great example of how the party has gone wrong, with its only solution to kick it into the long grass. We need more direct methods to approach the intransigence of the UK, and I would say leadership as well.

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  2. There is to many people trying to out guess Sturgeon, it's no use letting the Westminster Government know what she and her cabinet are doing before it's done. Take them by surprise, don't do any deals before independence, leave them to afterwards, so Westminster can't muddy the waters beforehand.

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    1. It would be more reasonable to say "let the leadership take Westminster by surprise" if the leadership hadn't repeatedly said that a Section 30 order is the only game in town, which effectively rules out any surprise move. OK, that could be a bluff, but to assume it's a bluff you have to make a huge leap of faith.

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    2. Sorry James, but I'm struggling to understand why that rules out any surprise move?

      Any surprise move must be 'legal', or have a very good chance of being accepted as such in court. If it's legal, section 30 or not, then it's completely legit and stands in law. Ergo, indy goes ahead. The only way WM could then make it not legal would be to take it to court; simply saying it wasn't wouldn't work.

      So why would the SNP then say such an alternative is being considered if you wanted to keep WM second guessing?

      Either way, a new iref is ideally post-brexit. That way Scotland could negotiate directly with the EU and/or EFTA; the UK having given up the members rights which prevent this. Ideally this would be in a transitional period, although for a hard brexit the Yes vote would likely be epic.

      At the same time, there's at least a 50/50 chance that Boris et al. are planning not to go ahead with brexit at all and never intended to. In which case, the current ScotGov mandate becomes more difficult to wave around.

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  3. SNP NS SG WM
    Ever you heard of constants?

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  4. I'm sure there's an element of the leadership being determined to keep an iron grip on the strategy for achieving independence, and an element of just plain having to desperately stall for time to wait to see how Brexit pans out.

    Sturgeon and the SNP have effectively gotten sucked in to the Westminster uncertainty and the name of the game at the moment seems to be to not commit to too much to avoid any potential for looking stupid if you ended up on the wrong side of either a snap General Election, another EU referendum or yet more Brexit delay and uncertainty.

    To some extent it was entirely predictable that it's panned out that way and all the parties at WM now seem to be locked into that cycle - Westminster has felt like it's on the verge of implosion for more than a year now without ever quite getting to that point - so I can understand the SNP reticence, but still. There's only so long you can pretend to be proactive about something whilst *actually* being entirely reactive to it. I think that's why people are starting to get a bit antsy on the Yes side.

    What I have found interesting lately is a near universal acceptance from lots of Conservative (and to a lesser extent) Labour people that the Union would be under immense strain in a No Deal Brexit. If it really was just a simple case of saying "no" to a Section 30 ad infinitum (which pretty much every Conservative leadership candidate said they'd say almost as a matter of course) I'm not sure why they'd be so worried...

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  5. It would be an education for the Jockos to see the real intention of the Nat si ruling class selling out their country to the EU criminal Mafia. And when the food banks are still in existence!

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    1. Has someone else taken over the GWC persona? It's less funny these days

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    2. Robin of LocksleyJuly 14, 2019 at 9:23 AM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    3. Maybe Cordelia has a permanent hangover and can't give us the laughs we've been enjoying over the years. It would be better if she got fully tanked up before posting her messages rather than waiting till the hangover kicked in.

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  6. There isn't an alternative as long as that spanglebrained feminazi of a First Minister is still in charge. She is entirely complicit in the stitch-up of A Salmond. Putting her feminist outrage and, "believe her" policy ahead of natural justice.

    We were having a referendum in 2014 with or without a section 30 order. A Win and Salmond was announcing the date of independence and challenging westminster to send in the tanks. Shame the current occupant of the post is such a faint heart.

    She won't even stand up to the media. Puts the feelings of yoons ahead of her own party and had sidetracked the entire parliament in pursuit of rights for cock in frock paedophiles.

    fair makes you proud so it does.

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    1. Poor guy's obviously going to die alone.

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  7. Nicola better have something good up her sleeve because if Brexit comes & goes and we don't see some serious moves towards independence then the SNP is finished as a force for independence. The time to put up or shut up is coming fast.

    And that's from an SNP member. Just my tuppence worth.

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    1. Robin of LocksleyJuly 14, 2019 at 9:24 AM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    2. And once again GWC proves they're no more Glaswegian than Boris Johnson is.

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  8. From the top.
    They think they will get a Section 30. The Tories will blink first.
    That's the theory.
    Plan B, no need.

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    1. Well if that is what the top think then they are very stupid. The Tories will not blink ever. No section 30 coming so a plan B bloody well better be in place.

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    2. There better he no section 30 for the nat sis and there paddy pals in transvestite alley. Too many of Herr Archbishop Junkers poofs bar already.

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    3. Robin of LocksleyJuly 14, 2019 at 10:16 AM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    4. A touch of good old Cordelia there. There must have been a drop left in the bottle to fire her up.

      Delete
  9. People understand that there is still every possibility that Boris doesn't plan to go ahead with brexit at all right?

    Remember, he's never done anything in his life for the benefit of anyone other than boris.

    A hard brexit would end his time at Number 10 in an instant. Many Tories would bring down the government in an effort to halt the exit (and the 27 would grant some sort of reprieve most likely). He's only got a majority of what 2(?), so can't push the party around either. So he's quite probably looking to keep himself in No. 10 by finding ways to delay brexit without calling a GE or a second ref (if he can avoid it). That way he can just keep being PM and enriching himself at the taxpayers expense while ruining the economy. So Bozo gets rich and fathers more kids while getting pished on tres expensive wine. At the same time, the economy tanks hurting everyone (but him) while the leavers get shafted.

    But then that's boris for you!

    Of course that does present a major problem for the SNP and a mandate based on an EU exit that never happens. A new mandate could be based on different conditions though (such as the general fuckedness of the UK), making it easier to justify and win an iref based on it.

    GWC - don't trust boris for your brexit. Or even Farage. Farage has built his career on fighting for brexit; he doesn't want the fight to end, ergo doesn't want brexit to really happen.

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    1. To add...

      Seriously, but what kind of idiot would trust Boris Johnson with their life's political dream?

      At the same time though, indy should be won on its merits alone, namely that it's the normal status for a country with Scots best governing themselves. I've never been comfortable with justifying indy because of brexit, and in a way I'm glad Scots have seen it this way too.

      the slow creep to 49% is not because of brexit, but because it's very clear the UK never acts in Scotland's interests, can't even govern itself properly, and treats Scotland as an English colony. That's what's breaking the union, not brexit. So in that sense, indy is coming brexit or not.

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    2. I have on many occasions said that we will not leave the EU. Once the terrible shock was over the remainers regrouped and the Mps claimed sovereignty. They and not the majority will decide. Strange that they who do not want a deal with the EU will vote on any deal. So no is the answer to any deal.

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    3. Robin of LocksleyJuly 14, 2019 at 12:20 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    4. See what I mean. Cordelia's become a right boring old lady. She'll be on Strictly next then ranting and raving for Nigel Farage.

      Delete
  10. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  11. Just a thought, but why show your hand to those who would use any information about your plans, to ensure those plans were neutered before the ink was dry?

    The BritNats have all the levers of power and dodgy money at their diposal, to control the narrative, whereas the SNP have very few levers to work with, or to work with them, in making sure the narrative is NOT controlled by the BritNats.

    I say we all 'keep calm' do what the BritNats do, strike when they are looking the other way. The BritNat government are panicking that they could well lose their gravy train, ie Scotland. They are a cunning lot, it's like a hunt, but the hunted is good at avoiding being caught and they really hate that. We need to ward them off, not leave a scent, cover our tracks. I just hope that is what Nicola Sturgeon is doing, she's a clever cookie, so imo, let's NOT underestimate her.

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    1. That is my point of view too, Hetty, so let's hope we're both right.

      I find it maddening - and I'm sure Nicola Sturgeon does too - that practically everything we do is contingent on the antics of those fools, crooks and charlatans who make up the Tory regime and legislature at Westminster, with a dose of Ash-for-Cash Arlene's sectarian, homophobic, dinosaur-denying, young-earth-creationist bigots thrown in.

      In that light, it is understandable why the First Minister would want not to give the Usual Suspects any hostages to fortune, or tip her hand. The messaging from the SNP Leadership has been very thin, but constant: section 30, referendum, only way. Wait till the enemy is lulled into a sense of false security thinking that refusing a section 30 order will stop us, thinking that we will in fact roll over and accept not being "allowed" to have our referendum.

      Wait till regime is teetering and toppling, fankled in its own ridiculous red lines, paralysed and totally focused on its own internal wranglings, and pounce.The legislation is in place (if not yet, then soon) for a referendum to be organized BEFORE a section 30 is sought (again), so the Tories will face the stark choice of granting a section 30 or being clearly seen as attempting to prevent a legitimate democratic exercise.

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  12. I still say let us follow Nicola, as there is no sense in telling the unionists how we intend to beat them.

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    1. You won't get me I am part of the Union.

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    2. Robin of LocksleyJuly 14, 2019 at 4:59 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    3. Till the day I die, till the day I die.

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    4. Or the day the union dies. Whichever comes first technically.

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    5. The real Scots will sign a Covenant in blood Nat si Irish bhoy.

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    6. Unfortunately you wouldn't know a real Scot if one was stuffed up your arse, you poor apology for a slime mould (apologies to slime moulds).

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  13. Section 30 of course still hasn't actually been formally refused.

    The SNP just have assorted prospective English PMs saying they'll refuse one and that Scotland is an English colony, which is doing irreparable damage to the union.

    At the same time, the ScotGov is doing everything it can to prepare for iref2 so that the only thing remaining is a Section 30; something that takes no time at all.

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    1. England has been colonised by Scots and Irish. Seems they do not have a problem living in England.

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    2. Loads of English living in Spain and other EU countries. And your point is caller?

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    3. It was an historical observation. Which means the British UK Union works for all Brits.

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    4. Like the EU union works for everyone from member states?

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    5. Historical observation you say. Brits? The Brythons / Welsh? Why do the Angles invader desire to be Welsh? Why do Tory Scotch desire to be Welsh? I'm not Welsh/Brit or from the Brit area so not a Brit. I'm Scots.

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    6. We voted to leave so leave it too them.

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    7. Robin of LocksleyJuly 15, 2019 at 10:04 AM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
  14. We even let the inhabitants of the Dark Papist ROI State immigrate to the UK to avoid unemployment and yet they hate the English. The Paddies are still feeling the effect of the water borne disease which the English deliberately caused on them. The cure was made by a Russian much later. The famine is over so why not go home Skier.

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    1. Irish make up 0.75% of the population of England.

      English migrants make up ~2.5% of Ireland, 8.7% of Scotland and 20.8% of Wales. They are by far the largest migrant group, involved in 'mass, uncontrolled' migrations to across the British isles.

      But lets not let facts get in the way of brexit and stuff.

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    2. You are omitting the Irish offspring born in the UK who do not want to be British but remain.

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    3. You are omitting the English offspring born in Ireland/Scotland/Wales who don't want to be Irish/Scottish/Welsh but remain.

      Your point is?

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    4. I was not making a point.

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    5. Robin of LocksleyJuly 15, 2019 at 10:05 AM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    6. She's on the bottle again.

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  15. Hard to belive the Coatbridge Irish pretend Scots are still under 50% when still crawling to the EU. We Unionists do not need to campaign. We can keep our powder dry.

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    1. Robin of LocksleyJuly 15, 2019 at 10:05 AM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
  16. One very good reason for rejecting that motion is that it's a form of capitulation.

    It says that any referendum without an S30 is illegitimate. That all the unionists have to do is fob Scotland off till the next election at which point they can cheat their way to either 50%+ of the vote or if they get lucky of the seats.

    For added bonus points they'll point to every seat the SNP fail to get as a loyal servant of the UK.

    At a minimum Shetland, Aberdeen, perhaps around Faslane, Edinburgh and Dumfries.

    The SNP might gain the majority of votes in an election organised and overseen by Westminster with Brexit out of the picture but they'll be under pressure to accept partition.

    We have a triple mandate for a referendum with or without an agreement between any Westminster government and Holyrood to enact a positive result.

    Technically any agreement with the current May government would lapse when her successor takes over. Also said agreement can be repudiated at any point by any party should things go against them.


    If that motion was to pass it wouldn't be a sign of strength it'd be an admission of defeat

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    1. Robin of LocksleyJuly 15, 2019 at 10:06 AM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    2. Only a nat si nationalist would support a separate English cricket team.

      Such things courage the breakup of the precious union.

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  17. Well done Nat sis we are now the drug death capital in Europe. Well done chaps. Beats that English cricket team.

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    1. Drug control is a reserved matter; it is the responsibility of the UK government.

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    2. Ther ye go Skier it is the English tae blame. Time we were independent.

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    3. With power comes responsibility. The control of illicit production, use and supply (including counter-smuggling operations) are a Westminster responsibility.

      The Scottish government have asked for these powers to be devolved, but Westminster has refused.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48922805

      Mr Fitzpatrick [Scottish public health minister] also called for more powers to be devolved to Holyrood to deal with the issue, with drugs legislation including the Misuse of Drugs Act currently reserved to Westminster.

      The deaths are therefore Westminster's responsibility, but then that is what they want, so it is not 'anti-' anyone to point that out.

      Delete
    4. Robin of LocksleyJuly 15, 2019 at 4:46 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    5. Skier, the question has to be asked, why is Scotland the worse in the EU? The English do not control family life in Scotland.

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    6. So Westminster and not the English are to blame for excessive drug use in Scotland? That would include the Scottish Nat si Mps in Westminster!

      Delete
    7. Robin of LocksleyJuly 15, 2019 at 7:23 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    8. Westminster controls drug policy in Scotland, including supply and availability.

      The difference in other countries is that they have control of their own drug policies.

      England has it's own problems, like people stabbing each other. Are the English just more violent than Scots? I mean stabbing in Scotland is very rare, so it it must be that the English are much more violent?

      Or maybe it's because Scotland has the powers needed to tacking knife crime and used these?

      Different countries face different problems at different times so need different solutions. This is why they are better governing themselves on domestic policy.

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    9. This is worth keeping in mind.

      https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/thatcherism-linked-drug-deaths-nhs-report

      Thatcherism linked with drug deaths in NHS report

      Westminster is very much to blame for the current problem; these are thatcher's children. The rentons and sick boys are now dying their early deaths. 1 in 10 sent 'letters from America' back then as they left in search of a work / a better life; others found escape in a different way.

      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

      ...More than three-quarters of deaths due to drugs in 2017 were of people aged 35 and over.

      ...Dr Priyadarshi said there was an ageing population of drug addicts, mainly men, who had been using heroin for decades..


      Which is why the 'safe rooms' proposal is so important to save lives, but...

      The UK Home Office has refused permission for Glasgow to set up the so-called "fix rooms", where users could inject heroin or cocaine in a safe and clean environment.

      Not even devolution of drug laws, but a closely controlled public health specific exception only.

      The English Tories are finishing off the killing of these people. But then that's fine with them isn't it? I mean it's just another 'Dead jock subsidy junkie scum' isn't it?

      It's not like they're human beings....someone's son, father, brother... or something.

      Delete
  18. I am also very disappointed. It should have been at least discussed.

    One of the plus points of the strategy is that it would eliminate the possibility of having to have the arguement for two referenda, one at the beginning of the process, and another at the end.

    This strategy would work best if a single referendum on the outcomes of negotiated independence settlement between the Westminster and Scottish governments. It would give safety to the soft , risk averse Nos for a reason to vote for the strategy, allowing them to stare at the hard facts of what the negotiated new Scottish country & governing system would look like.

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  19. Nat si Kirsty Blackman who talks like a chlorinated chicken was just on Newsnight and talking a load of chicken feed. She brings up racism when the subject is trade. Where do do the Nat sis dig up those middle class liberal left idiots. This idiot thinks trade is in the Barras with knocked aff fags.

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    1. Robin of LocksleyJuly 15, 2019 at 11:09 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    2. Robin of LocksleyJuly 16, 2019 at 3:28 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
  20. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  21. Wait, Scotland is an independent 'European country' now? I missed iref2?

    No, hold on, that's not happened, neatly explaining why it 'doesn't compare' to other European sovereign nation states. A 'region' can't be compared with countries; it's primary school statistics before we even start on the actual topic.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-48938509

    This is deeply sickening unionist propaganda from the BBC. Utterly revolting racist (the intent is to imply Scots are uniquely junkie in nature) shite.

    Scotland's public health bodies have made it clear enough why this 'UK/Great British region' has this specific problem; it is one of the union’s dividends. A legacy of Thatcher's economic/societal vandalism combined with little to no control over the economy, welfare, and drug laws / policy.

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    1. It is family breakdown, booze, drugs and women spreading their legs for a fix thus more weans on drugs and death. We never had this problem when Scotland was a civilised Presbyterian country.

      Delete
    2. Armjet PuffregardJuly 20, 2019 at 7:13 PM

      I go round but NEVER through.

      Delete
  22. Fascism draws ever closer.

    https://twitter.com/SkyNewsPolitics/status/1151135884554600449
    Sky News Politics
    @SkyNewsPolitics
    Team Johnson considering plan to end democracy before Brexit
    7:25 AM - 16 Jul 2019

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    1. This is something which would justify Holyrood declaring immediate Scottish independence, at least on a temporary basis until the situation is stablised and democracy is restored to the UK. The Scottish Grand Committee could e.g. meet and vote to withdraw Scotland from Westminster governance to deal with a very real state of emergency with threat to life.

      The UK becoming a dictatorship then crashing out of the EU in an economically, socially and constitutionally catastrophic manner with with a lack of food...people dying from no medicine etc is safe grounds for such a move.

      The international community would he hugely sympathetic towards such a move by Scotland.

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    2. I thought Scotland had 'a seat at the top tables of the world as part of the UK'? Was that a lie from BetterTogether?

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    3. The Germans don't seem to have any power; the Irish are running the show.

      Watch when Boris gets into No. 10 and tries to dump the backstop. Varadkar will say 'Jump!' and the 27 (Krauts included) will shout in unison 'how high?'.

      This is why became Irish; so I could enjoy ruling the EU and getting the UK to jump through hoops. :-)

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    4. The corrupt EU devotees will do what is necessary to hang onto their power. The British are leaving the EU and the Irish will pay the economic penalty for their part in threatening a nation that voted to leave their private club. The ROI has a history of supporting fascism. They cowtowed to Adolf while the Jews were being slaughtered.

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    5. Hitler was pretty jealous of the British empire. He never even came close to crushing that number of countries/peoples beneath his jackboots. He also was inspired by the British Boer concentration camps; an accolade the Irish just can't claim.

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    6. Clearly you have not seen the Magnalene Sisters! However we could invite Rodrigo MacDuterte the Philippines President to Scotland and sort out the drug problem. He would keep the lawyers and peddlers busy.

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    7. Don't sell Ireland short, the architect of the Boer camps was Irish.

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  23. Looks like Inverclyde and Glasgow are high on the drug death list. Labour and Nat si run quasi socialist.

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    1. The UK government looks after drug control in these areas. It's a reserved matter.

      Delete
    2. https://www.bmj.com/content/354/bmj.i4921

      Drug deaths hit record high in England and Wales, figures show

      http://www.sdf.org.uk/drug-related-death-figures-england-wales-reaches-record-number/

      Drug-related death figures in England and Wales reach record number again

      Delete
  24. The interesting thing about yesterday's drug story is it has ended up inadvertently highlighting how the union is actually killing people and Westminster doesn't care.

    The drugs problem is 'on fire', Westminster has all the buckets of water, yet won't give these to Scotland.

    After gleefully jumping in the 'Scots are junkies' story, making absolutely sure Scots know that's unionist opinion of them as a people, the British media then finds itself having to explain that in fact the problem is entirely Westminster's fault as all the public health bodies, police etc point his out, including the fact deaths have soared in England recently too.

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    1. The only part of drug control that is reserved is the criminlisation of drugs. The areas that the majority of countries with lower rates of deaths use (education health and social care and policing) are devolved.

      Of course being a nationalist you revert to form and blame another country for your problems rather than asking the question of why the 'buckets of water' that the majority of other countries use more successfully are not being used effectively in Scotland

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    2. I have to say that that is actually a ridiculous statement Anonymous. I don't want to be insulting here so forgive me but a key part of the drug death problem is the criminalisation of drugs - in short, you cannot consume or inject safely because you will be arrested. Decriminalise then those addicted can seek support and help - without going to jail. I have seen this stated before and I have to say this is nonsense stuff - look in detail at what has been done in Portugal and elsewhere before making statements. The drug problem is complex as are the reasons people take drugs. they require help and support not criminalisation.

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    3. I'm not saying there is not an agrument for deciminalising drugs, just saying its not a magic bullet.

      Why do other countries that have not deciminalised drugs have a lower rate of deaths? Scotland has the same tools as them, as i said education health and policing are all devolved.

      But nationalists don't want to have that conversation, they don't want to discuss why drug deaths have risen whilst other countries who have the same tools have seen them fallen. They just to run around blaming another Country/government for their problems.

      As you said yourself criminalisation is only part of the problem. Therefore Scot Gov has to shoulder some of the blame, something nationalists don't want to do.

      Delete
    4. Hello anonymous - yes you are right about the tools that are at their disposal and yes again you are right that the Scottish Government has to take some of the blame as does the UK government. The UK overall is the highest in Europe for drug use in many categories and we have to ask why that is. Mental health is associated with a disposition towards problem drug use and that is something that has to be tackled, but addiction is a complex issue. With regard to deaths in EU a lot of that has to do with the drug of choice used by users. Britain has a very high rate of IUDs and Scotland has a very high proportion of IUDs and many are older 'career users', and long term users tend to have poorer health - drugs can adversely affect vital organs - and along with issues such as tolerance levels, they are thus more prone to overdose and death. Suicide by overdose is also an issue.

      The methadone programme was designed to stabilise lives (which it does) and, like needle exchanges, to reduce the spread of BBVs. Had heroin itself been available (rather than having to resort to legal methadone) this could have been used instead. I don't want to go into a big explanation but even CDC say methadone is one of the most common drugs to cause prescription opioid overdose deaths. The really sad thing about all of this is the politicisation of the issue with cheap shots from the likes of Annie Wells whose own party has no idea about drug treatment except for trotting out already failed ideas. A bit more sympathy for the families of those who are dealing with a user, or those who have lost one would be a start. The situation down south is not that great down either - we have to ask ourselves what is wrong with Britain and Scotland in particular that makes so many take drugs?

      One last point, the criminalisation of drugs took place in 1964 (before which there were very few addicts) after pressure from the USA - just another benefit of the special relationship - like Iraq and Afghanistan.

      Delete
    5. On your last point i think that is a tenuous link. Particularly during the 19th and early 20th century opiate and cocaine based medications were readily available and sold as a cure for what would be now considered minor ailments (in cough medicine for example). People of course became addicts but they were recorded as such

      https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/Opium-in-Victorian-Britain/

      Once criminalisation arrived combined with more modern statistical recording the number of 'addicts' was recorded. A drug does not become more or less addictive depending on if it is legal or not. If 1 in 10 people who take Heroin once then go on to form an addiction ( as an example) then it makes no difference if they get the heroin from the doctor or from a dealer on the street corner.

      The biggest way to stop drug deaths is to get less people taking drugs in the first place, less people take drugs, less people get addicted less people then have overdoeses or use dirty needles etc etc.

      Getting people to stop taking drugs is down to education getting people to stay clean when they give up drugs is health and social care both of which are not reserved.

      My fear is that decriminalisation of drugs is that it is being put out as magic bullet, that the UK are keeping from Scotland.

      As with alcohol abuse drug addiction is a complex subject, yet all I have seen from nationalists is 'its the UK fault'. The real danger that until real pressure is put on the Scot Gov to do more with the powers they have, rather than trying to shift the blame else were, no real progress can be made.

      Delete
    6. Final point, I agree the UK does not get away scott free. The level of drug deaths in all parts of the UK is unacceptably high. Thats why the UK Government needs to be constantly challenged to improve it. Governments will only act if they feel pressure from the electorate. If they can shift the blame to someone else and a large proportion of the electorate gives them a free pass in doing so then things will never really change.

      Delete
    7. Hello again anon - I don't think we are that far apart on this ALL governments have to take the blame (is this the right way to look at it, I wonder?)better to say All governments have to take action. Education helps at a level but the reasons many people get involved in drug taking will not be stopped by education. This is evident from so many failed programmes - just say no etc.

      And you are right - my last point was tenuous and not really relevant on this subject. Finally, I am a nationalist and I do say that the Scottish Government has to take - ACTION (as I mentioned above).

      Delete
    8. One more thing anon - perhaps governments have to take responsibility is the better way to put and nationalist and I do say that the Scottish Government has to take responsibility.

      Delete
    9. I think it is also worth remembering, that the Scot Gov is not proposing widespread decriminalisation along a Portugal, it is proposing 1 drug consumption room in one city. So essentially 99.9% of measures to reduce drug deaths and addiction fall under deveolved remit. And yet all i am seeing is 'it's Westminster fault' being screamed.

      Delete
    10. Armjet PuffregardJuly 20, 2019 at 7:14 PM

      Anonymous has a lot to say for herself.

      Delete
  25. You’d like to think that’s what people will learn. But the media relentlessly just headline the increased deaths and the Scottish governments ‘reduction in funding for drug treatment’
    They really are ramping up the fight. Maybe we are winning...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes continues to rise in polls. It likely edged up a little more yesterday. Each day the union dies a little more.

      Delete
    2. The daily record is openly blaming the union / Westminster.

      https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/5F49/production/_107739342_record.jpg

      That's where we are now, i.e. late/final stage unionism.

      Delete
    3. Putting it in military terms Scotland is losing over three battalions per year under the Nat si rule. Tony Blair exonerated.
      And that stupid Nat si MP on the Daily Politics yesterday almost blamed the English but took no personal responsibility.

      Delete
    4. It would be incorrect to take responsibility. Drug control is a reserved matter; it is the responsibility of Westminster.

      Delete
    5. It would not be incorrect to try and save Scottish lives. The Nat sis have not put forward any firm proposals. All they do is point to Portugal.

      Delete
    6. That is because Portugal has been an example for over a decade of what can be done by decriminalisation.

      Delete
    7. It is up to the UK government to solve the problem as drug control is a reserved matter. It is 100% their responsibility.

      The Scottish government have asked that the UK government stop grossly failing in its duties here and deal with the problem. If they are not willing to do so, then they asked that drug control powers be devolved to Scotland so that the Scottish government can deal with the problem.

      Delete
  26. Out of interest GWC, Scots unemployment is 3.3%, while for the whole of the UK it's 3.8%.

    Is this because Scots are the hardest working in the UK?

    Like the Irish?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All down to the overall British economy skier. The Irish are saying they will take a 6 billion per annum hit if an EU deal is not done. That suggests they are also dependent on the UK. But they are to blame for threatening the UK.

      Delete
    2. Which threat do you mean?

      How can Ireland threaten the UK?

      Delete
    3. Paddy is saying there is likely to be violence if we leave without a deal. It has been an official tactic by paddy. In fact one said it on Newsnight last night.

      Delete
    4. Is the UK going to break the GFA?

      Delete
    5. Tonight on Panarama : " study shows it takes 97 Scots to do the work of 96 English. It's all Jerry Corbin's fault. Here is his address if you want to harras his family!"

      Delete
  27. Skier, do you get the daily rag delivered!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Robin of LocksleyJuly 17, 2019 at 12:46 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
  28. Who'd want the Euro as currency eh!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49015116

    Tourists could face a "shock" this summer when they travel abroad according to foreign currency experts.

    Those that buy euros at the airport can expect to receive around 98 euro cents for their pound. Better rates can be found by buying in advance, with the Post Office offering €1.0819.

    But that's still a long way from the summer of 2015, when tourists were getting at least €1.32 for their pound.


    Of course this fall will look like a drop in ocean to the hard brexit crash.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Some time ago you said you were fae the Spey valley; I think you meant either Speyside or ( if you mean the Highland bit) Strathspey.

      Delete
    2. Oh look! There's Cordelia using 2 of her names.

      Delete
  29. The UK will not break the Belfast Agreement but the Irish will on orders from the EU. I wonder if the EU will send troops to the NI border. The Germans and Frogs actually on our border threatening us.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Robin of LocksleyJuly 17, 2019 at 9:15 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    2. The EU have used violence in Greece and now in France against the working classes. The British will react equally if the EU attempts their shit.

      Delete
    3. Only customs / migration checks in the province itself breach the GFA you fool.

      The Irish / Brits are free to stop every car, lorry and bike on their own land, just not in the ‘disputed’ province.

      Here's it simplified for you:

      Irish customs / migration checks on arrivals from N. Ireland (e.g. north of Dundalk) = no GFA breach

      British customs / migration checks on arrivals from N. Ireland (e.g. at Cairnryan) = No GFA breach

      British customs / migration checks on arrivals from Ireland in N. Ireland = GFA breached

      Delete
    4. This is of course why then 'hard border' down the Irish sea was proposed.

      The Irish face no post-brexit problems with customs checks, but the brits do; they can't make these in the province. Ergo, sensibly, people said 'Just copy the Irish (if they need to) and put these at Cairnryan'.

      Delete
    5. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
    6. If Paddy wants to drive home from Dublin to Belfast with his EU Romanian bird and a crate of whiskey, the Brits cannot stop him (or her) post brexit, or the GFA is breached.

      By contrast, if Orange Willie Proodbrit wants to try the reverse with his Aussie bird and a keg of warm ale, the Irish can stop him (and her) as soon as he's entered their country. Course they can. FFS.

      Delete
    7. If I had an Aussie and Romanian burd I would stay in Scotland and have a threesome.

      Delete
    8. Robin of LocksleyJuly 18, 2019 at 9:23 AM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    9. No they won't.
      No they aren't.
      Brits complaining about other countries breaking agreements is like Americans complaining about theA Indians . As in, completely backwards. Is the Belfast Agreement the Good Friday Treaty?

      Delete
  30. Skier@ 9:50pm yesterday. I am not a fool. However your continuous lying about the unnecessary so called backstop has been called out. Even Pat, Mick and the Irishman admit it is a lie. The Irish will suffer for this political lie unless the EU get real and accept democracy.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, 56% is pretty overwhelming. The 27 should respect that.

      Delete
    2. Robin of LocksleyJuly 18, 2019 at 9:21 AM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
  31. Well hetty in response to us keeping our powder dry and not giving to much away, it’s wise to consider that Westminster are/have been doing the same.
    There is at present a court case going through appeal process in England (TIlbrook) which says we have legal already left the EU. I have been keeping an eye on it, as this would seriously effect our position in Scotland and our independence, I personally think we have good legal grounds for ending the Treaty of the Union as the first and main solution to an I de dent Scotland, it is a better equaliser between Scotland and England than us to keep asking for a referendum from Westminster and continually being told “NO”

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I must admit it's hard to entertain the concept that Westminster has well thought out plans for anything right now.

      Delete
  32. So today, British MPs are desperately making amendments to unrelated bills to try and ensure parliament is not completely shut down by its (soon to be) unelected supreme leader as soon as they take office.

    The 'mother of all parliaments/cradle of democracy' days seem so very far away now.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The vote to leave the EU was legal and the people are sovereign in this case. The Mps said they would honour the result. In your case I thought you would welcome leaving as it seems to be a ticket for your Nat sis to call a referendum. If you win you have a form of independence with the Frankfurt bank setting Scottish interest rates and Brussels telling the Scots what is good for them. Seems win win for you as you want to sell out our country.

      Delete
    2. Erm, I'm Scottish, yet the Bank of England sets interest rates for my country.

      You voted for an England that threatened to take Scotland's own currency - the £ Scots - from it in 2014. You are the sell out.

      Delete
    3. If the EU had said they'd stop the UK using the £ if people voted for brexit, I'd have voted leave because I'm not a pathetic sell out.

      Delete
    4. It was a Jocko who started up the BOE. What do you think of this new word made up by the politicians, Christophobia! Thought I was in the dark ages today watching the Commons debate this subject and surprised a Scottish Nat si from Glesga East End was involved along with the rest. It only takes a day or two to forget about the drug carnage in the UK.

      Delete
    5. The mother of Parliaments myth stems from them showing native peoples how to be democratic.
      That's after they'd illegally occupied their countries during the great British Empire land grab.
      They're so full of themselves they can't see what's coming.
      Gordon Broon is all a twitter and Willie Rennie is greetin intae his 'Big Country" Union Jack hanky.
      Meanwhile Ruth Davidson mutters BASTARDS under her breath John Major style as her career plan hits the buffers.
      Meanwhile Mundell disnae ken whether to threaten to resign.
      Laugh or greet? You decide.

      Delete
    6. The Scots screwed up in their imperialist ambition and joined the English in a joint imperialist venture. It was called the British Empire and the Jocks were pretty good with the fixed bayonet and making money. Dublin was also built on Empire profits. Sorry Jocko you are as culpable as the Irish, Welsh and English.

      Delete
    7. This comment has been removed by the author.

      Delete
  33. I did intentionally put 'mother of all parliaments' etc in inverted commas due to the absence of truth in the statement.

    Nowhere in the world does anyone think this sort of shite outside of England/Britain. It's like the recent 'Britain is Great' campaign thing; everyone smiles politely and nods while giggling under their breath.

    I mean the UK will soon have Bozo as PM crashing it's economy for no reason other than a hatred of people with different accents/skin colour ('piccaninnies with watermelon smiles' etc). Nobody takes it seriously anymore.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Wait, so our unelected supreme leader does have ultimate power and can overrule our unlected Prime Minister?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49040128

    It's a joke to call the UK a democracy. It's on a par with Iran, including the unelected upper chamber full of religious leaders.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Most of us leavers would agree that democracy is a joke. I doubt we will have another referendum as the clever people are scared us stupid people would again vote to leave.

      Delete
    2. Robin of LocksleyJuly 19, 2019 at 4:04 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
  35. Oh, and word is Hammond will step down the moment Bozo takes office.

    So, he's leaving before the great brexit economic crash, to be replaced by someone who does the budget with a crayon on the side of red cardboard buses.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There was economic crashes during the 30s, 50s, 70s, 90s and 2008. The over abundance of politicians are still raking in the dosh from the taxpayer and mugs like you approve. We could half our MSPs do away with the Lords and the EU Mep scroungers and no one would notice. It is taxpaying workers that drive economies not the leeches.

      Delete
    2. I don't recall any of those crashes being intentionally started by the government / a section of voters of the time.

      Delete
  36. "Why isn’t he [Varadkar] called Murphy like all the rest of them"

    https://www.businessinsider.com.au/boris-johnson-angela-merkel-stasi-leo-varadkar-murphy-comments-brexit-2019-7

    The latest from the UKs new PM.

    The UK is so utterly fucked.

    ReplyDelete
  37. For anyone who has interacted with this slavering nutcase, here's the WFI member and self-declared feminist take on the JY Waxing case.

    Southsidegrrrl


    @Southsidegrrrl
    Follow Follow @Southsidegrrrl
    More
    Replying to @KirsteinRummery
    I disagree with your analysis there Kirstein. The root of this case is whether or not women with male genitalia have the same rights of access to the same services as women with female genitalia.

    "Women with male genitalia"

    And it wants to be taken seriously while explaining to the undecided why they should believe her claims about an independent Scotland set against those of people who don't also campaign on behalf of lady penises.

    Just like mammoth whale taking a break from his MMT bollocks to enthuse young girls to accept real bollocks in their private spaces.

    It would be helpful if they could be silenced before peak transing the non-twatter population.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. TBH, I have no idea who you are on about nor your point exactly.

      However, it's fair to say there are plenty of UK unionists (particularly on the woke Labour left) who also wish to dispense with science and claim human females can have penises.

      While it would make Darwin weep, this debate is nothing to do with independence. For example, I doubt Canada will consider re-joining the UK based on the current high profile case ongoing there.

      Delete
    2. If there's one thing I definitely don't identify as it's 'British'.

      Delete
  38. So, the British government calls my wife and family 'French turds' and my late gran/mum/me 'Paddies / Murphies'.

    And then folk ask why it is I support Scottish independence.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Not really. You obviously don't think that words such as mick paddy, taff, frog, Orange Willie Proodbrit, Aussie, Kraut are offensive in any way as you regularly use them, so why do you have an issue if someone else uses them?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've never used these pejoratively in reference to others, which is what makes them racist. Quoting or paraphrasing people like Boris who do use them pejoratively certainly doesn't make me racist.

      And I've never called anyone Orange Willie Proodbrit; that person must have been your imagination. And it's you insulting orangeman called william who are proudly British by suggesting such terms are pejorative rather than simply descriptive.

      I'm British on paper anyway, so the prood orangemen are not 'others', they're my own folk. I can talk freely of jocks paddies and brits because I am all three!

      Boris is English insulting Irish and French people (and most of the world) = simple racism. I've done nothing similar.

      If I call English people 'English Turds' etc, you can call me up on it.

      Delete
    2. By contrast, if Orange Willie Proodbrit wants to try the reverse with his Aussie bird and a keg of warm ale, the Irish can stop him (and her)

      Your words - who were quoting or paraphrasing then.

      How about Krauts - who were you paraphrasing then.

      Keeps up with the theme of all nationalists being the same (were they are Scot or Brexiters) use the same language along with previously mentioned of always blaming other governments/nationalities/countries for you problems.

      Delete
    3. I am British, just like willie. It's not possible to be racist towards your own people / yourself. Racism is by nature directed at others. When European tourists come to Scotland and see the proud brits spitting on catholics, I'm ashamed because the orangemen are Scots too whether I like it or not.

      Not only that, I didn't insult him (unless being orange and British is an insult in your books, in which case it is you doing the insulting); I even gave him a nice Aussie bird. And his counterpart, paddy with his EU chick, well that's me as I'm Irish with an EU wife.

      'Krauts' is a used in Britain by people who don't like Germans, such as many brexiters (e.g. GWC). Each time I use it I'm paraphrasing them, generally in response to them using it.
      If I was anti-German and used it in that sense, it would be racist. As I'm not and have never done that, then it's not a problem.

      I quote Boris:

      'Why is he not called murphy like the rest of them'.

      This is pure racism. Firstly, Boris isn't Irish, so he's attacking another people/race. Then he's grouping them all as one to mock them as whole; that is very definition of racism; 'they are all the same!' (all murphys). Finally, he uses a name historically used in England pejoratively for Irish people, normally in jokes mocking them, i.e. paddy and murphy. There is also a sense of further racism in that he seems also to be questioning why Varadkar can even claim to be Irish given he doesn't have an Irish sounding name. He does this because he knows Varadkar to be part Indian.

      'French Turds'.

      That means 'French people are Turds'. Like my wife, who supports the french position in brexit negotiations.

      Delete
    4. Oh, and I'm a unionist; I voted remain and will vote to keep Scotland in union with the other EU countries in iref2.

      I only support equal/fair unions of course; 1 nation 1 vote / veto unions.

      Delete
    5. Skier, are you on the coatbrig Buckie! You are wibbering like a geck.

      Delete
    6. Anonymous might find this useful:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use%E2%80%93mention_distinction

      Delete
  40. The Nat sis seem to have gone away. Maybe an executive meeting being held in the telephone box on the A82.

    ReplyDelete
  41. From Tuesday the support for Independence should increase with the Tories electing Johnson. An own goal by the Tories.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Robin of LocksleyJuly 20, 2019 at 2:34 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
  42. I well remember Thatcher's "sermon on the mound" speech when she was blithely unaware of how patronising and condescending she sounded.
    Expect more of the same from Johnson.
    He'll be unpopular with all but the most sookophantic Unionist hardliners.
    A tale of two nations right enough.
    Johnson a giant step forward for YES.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Guthnetta FraserJuly 20, 2019 at 8:28 PM

      The future of the UK is going to be a car crash of an event. I feel sorry for my friends and relatives and old workmates in England and Wales with what they are going to have to put up with. Maybe this nervous breakdown they've been going through since the 1960s will resolve itself after we leave them to get on with running their own affairs.

      Delete
    2. Guthnetta, you need wodgered on a regular basis by woderick. You have been visiting too many leftie lesbian bars.

      Delete
    3. Gwc you have been falling over and doing a Touchy too many times.

      Delete
    4. But Cordelia, you always told me you enjoyed meeting up with me at our favourite leftie lesbian bars, then coming home with me for some fun.

      Delete
    5. Guthnetta do you fancy tongue for lunch tomorrow?

      Delete
    6. Guthnetta FraserJuly 21, 2019 at 8:26 PM

      I know you do. Because you know what I can do with my tongue, you cute lady love.

      Delete
  43. Hammond stepping down.

    So in will come crayons on the side of red cardboard buses economics.

    Just as the great brepression is beginng in earnest.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Arthur L ScatterpouchJuly 21, 2019 at 4:17 PM

    The bouncy castle is being inflated as we speak.

    ReplyDelete
  45. Your daily reminder that there is no such (realistic) thing as a no deal brexit, only trying to negotiate a deal while the country is on its economic knees because it crashed out of the EU before agreeing a deal.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Very true, which is why the Government will be brought down if Borris tries it. I mean Hammond is a Eurosceptic and even he is hinting he will pull the plug.

      Brexiters should of taken Mays deal, would of left by now, instead there will be a GE or Second ref (or both)

      Delete
    2. Or a crash out brexit then the things you suggest. The former seems to be required before many voters realise its not lies to scare them, but simple reality.

      Delete
    3. A crash out brexit would lead to essentially immediate Scottish indy, if simply to preserve life. Thousands could die potentially. A completely unnecessary act of genocide by the UK.

      In which case Scotland would unlikely be voting in a future England + Wales referendum to rejoin.

      Which is what I still believe will happen. The UK will disintegrate, with Scotland and n. Ireland staying in, then England / Wales rejoining as that. The empire chapter finally closes.

      Delete
    4. Total hard brexit required and no deal just WTO rules. Hopefully the EU will go on the attack against the British economy and we will see the bully bhoys for what they are. As for the Irish, fook them and their economy.

      Delete
    5. If it takes Belarus then fine.

      Delete
  46. No point of a GE after crashed out and can't be a second ref. No, if Borris tries to force no deal then there will be a GE, only needs what 2 or 3 Con MPs to vote against easily enough for that.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. As my French teacher used to say, "Back to Earth, lad. Back to Earth."

      Delete
  47. The Nat si paper is saying the Nat sis should call for an immediate vote of no confidence against Bo Jo. Bo Jo is not in power yet and has yet tae fuck up. Give him time.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Robin of LocksleyJuly 21, 2019 at 11:36 PM

      Purse.
      Cordelia and purses.

      Delete
    2. The sore bum Nat sis still at it. I note the Spotlight film is on just now. Ooohoo it's sore father.

      Delete