Wednesday, October 1, 2014

You really couldn't make this up

So let me get this straight.  Gordon Brown has said "the vow" wasn't worth the parchment it was written on, has accused David Cameron of reneging on his promise of more powers to Scotland, and has therefore naturally called for people to sign a petition demanding that the Tories deliver even less powers than they are actually planning to.

Oh-kaaaay.  My head is hurting.  No disrespect, but I think those of us who actually want the vow on "Devo SUPER Max"/"near federalism" to be honoured might just be able to find a more useful petition to sign.

Give Gordon his due, though - if you want to make the union absolutely secure, what better way of doing it than to have the front man of a solemn "vow" that saved the union tell everyone only a few days after the vote that Alex Salmond was right all along about the promise being a "trap", and that all we can do now that we've been conned into throwing away our chance to decide our own future at the ballot box is to sign a stern-looking petition and cross our fingers really tightly.  The sophistication of Brown's claim that Cameron is somehow trapping us by devolving too many powers will not detract from the genius of this intervention one iota.

Ruth Davidson apparently said earlier today that she would be "astonished" if the SNP won an extra 20 seats at the general election.  I wonder if she's quite so sure now?  Next it'll be "Willie Rennie says : Without Your Help We'll Never Get Nick Clegg to Listen."

UPDATE : It gets even better - as Rolfe and Illy point out in the comments section below, the petition Brown wants people to sign isn't his petition at all, but one that was set up after the referendum and largely signed by Yes supporters to demand that Cameron keeps his promise of more powers.  Brown has hi-jacked it after tens of thousands of people have already signed, and tried to retrospectively claim those signatures as backing a "stop Cammo from delivering too many powers!" message.

I believe the word is 'cynical'.  Or perhaps even 'desperate'.

60 comments:

  1. Not his petition. Set up 2 weeks ago by an unknown person. Many "45ers" signed it a day or two after the referendum. It was already on 80,000 when Brown simply urged people to sign it. He's a complete chancer.

    Some of the people who signed early are now pretty unhappy to be in the position of having signed "Gordon Brown's petition".

    If he was serious he'd organise or sponsor a proper .gov.uk petition - the government have to pay attention to these. Instead, all he's done is recommend that disgruntled voters sign an anonymous internet petition that was already on the go.

    That's the level of contempt he has for us.

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  2. In campaigning terms, it's pretty obvious what Brown is trying to do. He's aware that if he keeps arguing for Westminster vis-a-vis the SNP then it makes it look like the SNP is the voice of Scotland while he's part of the establishment. So what he's attempting to do is to position himself (and more crucially Labour) as arguing for Scotland's interests against the Tories.

    Of course he's in a bit of a no win situation because as soon as he does that the SNP simply criticise him for "the vow" breaking apart (given Labour and the Tories no longer agree). Long term though I think he's probably calculated that some type of devolved settlement will be agreed one way or another so he's trying to put himself in line to take the credit for it when that happens.

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  3. I'd be 'astonished' if the Tory vote share doesn't take fair hit come May 2015.

    After threatening (47% devo max supporting) Tory No voters with the hounds of hell during the iref campaign, what would the UK Torys expect?

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  4. James what are you referring to that should make Ruth Davidson change her mind? Expect more dirty tricks from the likes of Brown. One of the dangers of all this talk of a Yes Alliance is that Brown and the Mail will quite happily capitalise on it by saying that the yessers want you to vote for them so they can have another referendum which could have the effect of creating a unionist tactical voting tend in the 2015 election.

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  5. SS

    All Tories have a streak of masochism in them.

    At the top, it is the product of the Public School Education, fagging and other nefarious personal practices.

    It pervades the Tory Party as a accepted culture and it is the "right thing."

    The wannabees in Jockland and the middle classes just don't understand that all this pain for gain, self flagellation and austerity is degrading them, in every sense, as much as the unwashed below them, which is their demotion fate if they don't support the "right thing."

    People queuing up to be abused and thank the master for doing it to them.

    The Tories always end a period of Government in a sexual messband Labour in a financial one.

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  6. If this is the 38Degrees petition that he's bandwagoning onto, then so much of it's support was from dejected Yes voters in the first few days after the referendum.

    It's not his fucking petition, and he was claiming that all this was a "done deal" so *why* is *he* asking us to sign a petition for something he claimed was a done deal?

    Fucking arsehole.

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  7. Illy

    An arsehole has a use, and without it performing its useful job, the body would shut down.

    Gordon Brown is just the useless keich which just slides out.

    There, sorted that for you.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I prefer the Revs petition.
    https://www.change.org/p/gordon-brown-mp-go-fuck-yourself

    ReplyDelete
  9. Calling it a ToryTrap

    Gordon the hero trying to save Scotland

    Hero to Zero

    Daily Record circulation figures

    ReplyDelete
  10. re: Illy @ 8:46am

    I did find it odd that "Brown's petition" already had 84,000 signatures when I looked at it about 7pm yesterday, only an hour or two after he had made his statement. Today's Record is boasting about how it already has 89,000 signatures, when in reality that means that only ~5,000 have signed it since Brown endorsed it.

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  11. This is fun, it's just like 79 all over again.Hume and Broon.Do they think we button up the back.Devo Max or null and void.

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  12. "James what are you referring to that should make Ruth Davidson change her mind?"

    The fact that Gordon Brown has just committed the biggest own goal in history. Or am I missing something? As far as I can see he's just openly admitted that what Alex Salmond has been saying was right all along, and that the idea that we could trust London to automatically deliver on the "vow" in the event of a No vote was a con. Instead we have to beg our masters and sign petitions.

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  13. Gordon Brown has even sidestepped telling us which petition to sign. He left that to his wife Sarah, as you can see on her Twitter timeline.

    She does indeed refer to that old 38 Degrees petition. If they had a facility for removing your name, I suspect it would be heading back down towards zero signatures.

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  14. Brown's a liar and has never been the full shilling since he and Blair spent most of their time fighting away at the top of the labour party for so many years.

    Brown's also stated very clearly that he's not going to be in frontline politics so will be heading out the door very quickly indeed. Just to hammer home how worthless his promises and VOWS are for those who also somehow missed that Browns's just a mere backbencher who can't even be bothered to attend the commons 99% of the time and has no power to change anything.



    Meanwhile back in the real world the political earthquake continues.



    Cllr Liz McDonald ‏@Liz_Nairn 2h

    Over 75,000 members and growing. Welcome to all new members. Scottish National Party: Home http://www.snp.org/node/41



    :-)

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  15. Erm, Brown isn't even really shouting for more powers, but to allow the unfair/undemocratic practice of Scottish Labour MPs voting on English only matters (those devolved to Scotland).

    Less than a fortnight after the former Labour Prime Minister was credited with helping to save Mr Cameron's job, Mr Brown urged the people of Scotland to band together against proposals to restrict Scottish [Labour, Lib Dem and Tory] MPs' voting rights [on English only matters].

    Whit? "I'm fighting for the Labour party, not Scotland, and I want the latter to be undemocratic and piss off the English!"

    The man's unhinged.

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  16. Extraordinary intervention by Brown, exposing all his old flaws. In fairness, this is a response to Cameron's rather partisan attempt to outmanouvere Labour on EV4EL on the morning after the referendum, which itself stemmed from the reaction of his party to the vow, which itself stemmed from the fact the vow was obviously rushed and ill-considered. I am still aghast that nobody seemed to have contemplated what response would be appropriate if the polls narrowed at some point, or saw that there would be merit in a more comprehensive offering to the Scottish people earlier in the campaign (with associated constitutional tweaks).

    So now we have Brown back to his partisan worse, trying to similtaneously slander the Tories, optimise Labour's position in Westminster and outflank the SNP. All he will achieve is stoking unnecessary fears in Scotland that the Westminster parties won't deliver what they have promised. The Tories have been unequivocal this week that further devolution is not conditional on EV4EL, but that they will put proposals for EV4EL alongside the devolution plans.

    The sentence: "The Tory trap that we are in danger of falling into is to devolve all decisions on Scotland’s income tax rates away from Westminster and then to deny Scotland representation in votes on budget decisions on income tax rates." is truly extraordinary. I suspect he's trying to make a sophisticated point about the impact on the Barnett formula of decisions in Westminster, but he's ended up rather clumsily defending a status quo in which Scottish MPs get to vote on matters that do not affect their constituents.

    I do have some sympathy with his statement that there were no conditions or considerations presented alongside the vow, but you would have to have been pretty naive not to think that the WLQ would need to be addressed, and quite quickly. I suspect Cameron either made a careful calculation that he would rather risk looking a little disingenuous after the event than risk the vow falling apart pre-referendum. But he may just not have thought about EV4EL until his party really pushed him to do so.

    In any event: yuk.



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  17. It's nothing to do with the Barnett formula, they are quite happy getting rid of it as he so stated with his 'pool our resources' spiel, he is using the line about scottish votes as if it's a tight parliament and they are in gov they won't be able to pass budgets through.

    He is showing his true colours, some other labour lackey was commenting on their devo plans saying they can only go so far as if they went further it would harm the UK.

    I'd also remind you that the SNP do not vote on english matters, only if the matter concerns barnett consequentials.

    With Barnett removed there is no real reason for the labour mp's to vote, but it comes back to the whole 'union' question, they've just spent two years telling us we are better together and that westminster is the sovereign parliament, english mp's vote on matters affecting us.

    The Union is in a vice.


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  18. We definitely need a poll on support in Scotland for English only votes on English laws.

    I suspect you'd get >70% for vs <20% against, matching devo max figures.

    I see no reason at all why this can't be implemented quickly so long as a way to deal with Scottish budget implications for certain types of legislation is dealt with.

    Why Brown thinks his fight to keep e.g. Labour MPs voting for fees for English students but enjoying no fees in Scotland is a vote winner is really beyond me.

    This is turning into a fail of epic proportions.

    Anyway, the EVEL problem may well solve itself in May 2015 given the SNP don't do the West Lothian thing.

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  19. The only Brown will succeed in doing is fatally wounding the Labour Party in Scotland. It will take time, just as the decline in the Tory vote occurred gradually. But I think it will happen, and it will largely be self inflicted. SLAB have shown that they simply cannot be trusted. To go into coalition with the Tories to thwart and prevent meaningful change in Scotland was bad enough. But to expect the Tories not to immediately plunge the knife into their backs after the vote, was incredibly naïve and foolish even for them.

    The Tories have Labour by the balls, they appear anti-democratic in resisting a ban of their Scottish MPs voting on English matters. The Tories only have 1 MP in Scotland, so I doubt they would be that bothered about torpedoing a deal on a few more powers for Scotland. They know if would be much worse for SLAB if there was no delivery on more powers (inadequate and detrimentally that they are likely to be). The Tories will run with their proposals regarding voting rights in 2015 anyway. I still think there will be some kind of a deal on more powers though.

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  20. It would be a terribly British compromise if we end up not changing the law but through the SNP being the dominant Scottish force in Westminster we entrench the convention (which I acknowledge the SNP already honours, and did not mention above only for space) that Scottish MPs don't vote on English matters.

    It could end up with some very interesting electoral dynamics, mind.

    I certainly agree that Scots seem broadly supportive of EV4EL. Labour could get themselves in a hell of a mess over this.

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  21. Devo max / FFA solves the whole EVEL things simply.

    It even solves the problem where e.g. legislation on 'apparently' English only matters actually had a knock on effect for Scotland in terms of budget implications.

    Only route to save the UK it seems to me, i.e. a confederal arrangement more like a mini EU.

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  22. Juteman - I can see a solution for them. But I'm not sharing ;-)

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  23. From the torries conference today.

    "I am proud to stand here today as the Prime Minister of four nations in one United Kingdom PM David Cameron"

    ---

    IF that is true, in a UK/EU Passport, everyone should have the ability to request that their Nationality be correctly noted as:

    Scottish, English, Welsh, Irish (N), or British.

    I have mentioned that before on this board as I think its a good idea to distinguish between the nations partly taking the idea from the Good Friday Agreement that granted all Irish on the island of Ireland the right to an Irish Passport.

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  24. Massive speech by Cameron today. Simply massive. Huge potential for it to be spun both ways but aimed squarely at winning back protest voters who have decamped to UKIP and firing a massive bazooka marked "POLICY" at Labour. Miles of clear blue water between the two main parties now.

    But rumours of another defection to UKIP this afternoon could upset the applecart. Hope not - whether you like them or not these policies need to be heard and debated.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Scottish Skier, "Only route to save the UK it seems to me, i.e. a confederal arrangement more like a mini EU."

    That might be acceptable and a good thing for all four Nations!!

    If I was to rank my preferences they would be as follows;

    1.) Confederal Arrangement. FULL
    2.) Independence
    3.) Status Quo.
    4.) Devo Max Westminster Style

    My reason for preference of a confederal arrangement is that a major majority would likely support in all the nations, it should be cheaper for a common defense, and it ensures one/single immigration path since we are an island nation hooked together.

    Devo Max Westminster Style is last because it is built on a foundation of smoke, mirrors and lies.

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  26. I'd be happy with independence lite. Makes sense for all the nations of this island to work closely together.

    The current arrangement though baffles me - why do so many areas have to be reserved for Westminster? Take broadcasting, for example, to name but one of many.

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  27. Anonymous

    The current arrangement though baffles me - why do so many areas have to be reserved for Westminster? Take broadcasting, for example, to name but one of many.

    You are kidding?

    ReplyDelete
  28. Radical Independence ‏@Radical_Indy 16m

    Cameron announces tax cuts for the top 15% of earners. How will the Tories fund this? More cuts in welfare and local services?


    UK Uncut ‏@UKuncut 34m34 minutes ago

    .@David_Cameron wants to find 25b savings for tax cuts for the rich... guess where that's going to come from? the poorest obvs! #CPC14


    Michael Dugher ‏@MichaelDugherMP 25m

    Cameron on poor people: "This is who we resent".


    Tom Albrighton ‏@TMALBRGHTN 5m

    So @David_Cameron is taking benefits off the poor & disabled but is kindly rasing the threshold for the 40p income tax by £9,000


    Stop the War ‏@STWuk 5h5 hours ago

    Cameron says welfare for poor is 'unaffordable' but no problem funding bombing Iraq at £1m for each missile http://bit.ly/1ByY41g


    Sonia Poulton ‏@SoniaPoulton 3h3 hours ago

    I'll put more money into NHS says @David_Cameron Oh goody! says 206 MPs and Lords who have bought stakes in it. http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/378233/MPs-links-are-so- …


    Christine of Aaargh ‏@cdaargh 14m

    Disabled Tory Party member pens furious letter to Cameron about brutal treatment of disabled in UK #cpc14 #UKUncut http://mirr.im/1uzsd1P




    Same old nasty party. Same old posturing and bluster from a coward terrified of his own backbenchers and kippers. (which as we all know are now becoming the same thing)

    The complete and utter desperation of Cameron will make certain any of the promsies, VOWS, pledges and talk of DevoMAX and Home Rule will be forgotten as he tries to appease his idiot backbenchers and put labour on the spot for 2015.

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  29. *DevoMAX - All powers apart from foreign affairs and defence.

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  30. Cameron proposing to remove basic human rights from Scots if elected.

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  31. Along this line of thought, I think the question should NOT be what matters should be devolved rather what matters should be RESERVED by Westminster?

    I realize that question would be different for each Nation.

    There is also a more fundamental question and that is from where does power/rights flow?

    Does power/rights flow down from Westminster or does power/rights flow up from the consent of the people, those whom are governed?

    Personally, I believe that power/rights can only from the consent of the governed, the people. It is for the people to conceded certain rights not for them to receive certain rights.

    So for the question at hand on "devo-max" it is NOT for Westminster to dictate what powers it will devolved rather it is up to the Scottish Parliament to give up rights to Westminster.

    The starting point for the Scottish Parliament is that it is Sovereign over ALL affairs in/of Scotland with the consent of the Scottish People.

    Starting from a position of Sovereignty what powers does the Scottish Parliament hand over in custody to Westminster?

    To many such a mindset will be considered radical but I believe it in every muscle in my body.

    Mick Pork on another thread posted a Guardian link to elitism in British public life. I have no doubt that the Oxbridge elite would disagree with everything I have written and would say that power/rights flows from high institutions down to the people.

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  32. Also, just to correct the incompetent fop Cameron's repeated lies on the Independence Referendum.. it was the democratic will of the scottish public and voters to have that referendum. You had no power to "duck out" of it Cammie or delay it without exposing that you couldn't give a shit about democracy and making 100% certain Independence would happen sooner rather than later.

    It's a bit unfortunate you are now forced to place so much emphasis on how there will be an IN/OUT referendum for Europe since that is self evidently only going to happen if the voters grant you that power. Just like they did for the Independence referendum.

    So enough of the vapid bullshit Cammie, you didn't have a choice but to grant the referendum, nor will any other westminster leader in the future if that is the democratic will of the scottish public.

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  33. In case anyone somehow missed it here is the incompetent fop Cameron's Cast Iron Vow.


    "So this is my vow: English votes for English laws – the Conservatives will deliver it."


    Will it be enough to appease his backbenchers? Well they have been stupendously gullible before when it came to his Cast Iron Pledges and promises. Cammie had also better hope none of them are bright enough to look up the McKay Commission and what happened to it.

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  34. mick pork, you are 100% correct, it was for the Scottish People to determine if a referendum would occur and it remains with the Scottish People as to when/if there will be another referendum.

    Thats why I have radically changed my thinking on devo-max. It is up to the Scottish Parliament to state what powers it will pass to Westminster with the knowledge it is up to the Sovereign Parliament in Scotland to determine when/if it will pull those powers back.

    The referendum question was ""Should Scotland be an independent country?"

    The NO vote won the day so the Nations remain in Union but the Nations remain what they are which was confirmed by the UK Prime Minister today.

    The Scottish Parliament has come a long long way in a short time. But I think post referendum it needs to make another major jump.

    That major jump is a change in the mind set of both the Scottish parliament and the Scottish people. Both MUST begin with the premise that Scotland is Sovereign and is conceding certain powers to Westminster as being in the greater good for itself and the three other Nations.

    Westminster may concede that broadcasting is a reserved matter but do the people of Scotland concede that?

    It is not what Westminster will give Scotland, rather it is what does Scotland give Westminster?

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  35. Mickpork, I think it would be wise for the SNP to go on the PR Offensive in England and state that they believe in and practice EV4EL just as they support SV4SL.

    the SNP putting in its manifesto support for legally binding EV4EL would be wise.

    Making friends and not enemies is good.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Is that any more believeable than his last Vow?

    God Labour have been stitched up by the Tories.

    Also it seems that the Tories have written off the young, the poor and the Scots who don't vote for them anyway. And are now focussed on the middle-class and the old who do.

    My guess is that this will be enough to prevent a Labour OM and maybe to deliver Tories as largest party a Tory OM is unlikely because the boundary changes did not go through.

    If Tories do win in '15 then it will have been Labour that delivered Scotland's poor into their hands.

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  37. George I agree with both your comments.

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  38. Meanwhile, we bomb Iraq.

    Making the same mistakes, time after time, is what we ought to expect of Westminster.

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  39. George, I have been following every twist and turn over EV4EL for years because I knew with absolute certainty it would become a focal point.

    Hence my reference to the McKay Commission. The McKay Commission weren't offering EV4EL. Those who are in favour of EV4EL need to be clear what it is they want and what has been done to address the question before. Or rather, what hasn't been done. Cameron's VOW will need far more meat on it before it will satisfy his backbenchers or many voters.


    No doubt more English voters knowing that the SNP do not vote on English only matters would help, but that is something that would have already been stated REPEATEDLY as a matter of course were we in a country with a competent and not hopelessly biased media. Sadly we are not so we repeat the fact when we can just like we do over what DevoMAX actually means.

    The fact is the situation RIGHT NOW is unfair and the WLQ is untenable. That's before we get to the question of if more powers are now later devolved.

    So if we get DevoMAX and Home Rule (as was promised by some of the unionists) then EV4EL or even an English Parliament would have to follow. There is simply no other way to resolve things fairly.


    *DevoMAX - All powers apart from foreign affairs and defence.


    We aren't the barrier to such a fair and equitable solution, the westminster bubble media and out of touch westminster parties are. The more they bicker over it the harder it will be for them to disguise or obfuscate on the fundamental issues the WLQ and EV4EL raise as well as precisely what powers will be on offer to the scottish public.

    Make no mistake though, they are absolutely going to be bickering about this from now until the 2015 election.

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  40. That rise in the tax threshold amounts to a £7.2 billion loss in the budget.

    Add in the £25 billion cuts coming and your £2,000 extra a year will be spent on private healthcare.

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  41. Whoopsie, it's £38 billion of cuts coming.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/227fbf76-4958-11e4-9d7e-00144feab7de.html#axzz3Etqwo9Se

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  42. Another thing to note is that the out of touch labour and tory parties are so unpopular and bereft of ideas that both of them will be running big on 'if you vote for another party you will let the party we hate in'.

    Their problem in both cases is that it simply isn't true.


    For example, anyone gullible enough to believe Cameron's desperate cries of "Vote Nigel Get Ed" would do well to remember what the incompetent fop was shouting in 2010.

    Vote Clegg and you'll get Gordon Brown - Cameron warns Labour could be the winner

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/election/article-1267115/General-Election-2010-Vote-Nick-Clegg-Gordon-Brown-say-Tories.html

    How did that turn out again?

    LOL


    The desperate 'scottish' labour cries of "only a vote for labour will keep the tories out" is also patently untrue and extremely easy to refute with evidence.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/

    Fact is labour and the tories are both using this desperate ploy because there really are no meaningful difference between them. They are both desperately trying to win an ever more right wing middle England and the South. (The kipper rise is proof of that) Which they always will in westminster due to the marginals and FPTP.


    The tories and labour are both lining up the poor and vulnerable for austerity while bombing Iraq yet again. They are both intent on continuing the privatisation of the NHS. (Over 70 MPs Connected to Companies Involved in Private Healthcare) They are both still greedily lining their own pockets. (11% MP pay rise and MPs expenses back to the level they were at during the first expenses scandal)

    Red Tories or Blue Tories will make no difference in the end to scots. We all saw that very clearly when the richest only got richer and the poor only got poorer under Blair and Brown even before they crashed the economy. So too has it proved under Cameron. So too would it be under little Ed.


    (Calamity Clegg and his yellow tories are all but a toxic irrelevance now so we need not spend too much time over their tory poodling and the inevitable hammering from the voters they will receive in 2015.)

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  43. Not much clear blue water here either.


    Tom Newton Dunn ‏@tnewtondunn 53m

    Ed Balls attacks Cameron's #cpc14 tax cuts as "pie in the sky promises" for not being costed - but interestingly doesn't rule out matching.

    #RedTories

    ReplyDelete
  44. SNP just tweeted about torie reneging on promises to pensioners....state pension not going to £160 but to £142 per week.

    I am getting more and more angry.

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  45. @chalks

    We knew this was coming to be fair though the anger is of course entirely just and well deserved for the lies and contempt they clearly have for the poorest and most vulnerable in society.

    Nor are they alone of course since the #RedTories are just as repulsive and out of touch.


    Labour would raise retirement age and scrap winter fuel allowance

    http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/main-topics/politics/labour-would-raise-retirement-age-and-scrap-winter-fuel-allowance-1-6853326


    All the unionist parties are soon going to find their "Better Together" slogan will become of the biggest focal points for that anger from scottish voters come 2015 and 2016.

    ReplyDelete
  46. Being right is no satisfaction as we watch them renege on promises,implement cuts, discover oil and start a 'war' all as we predicted.

    ReplyDelete
  47. I said the anger was entirely just and so it is. The fact that we predicted this won't be the satisfaction, that will come when the scottish public hold the incompetent and corrupt westminster liars to account in 2015 and 2016.

    The out of touch tory twits and Cameroons for example have somehow forgotten that the last time they were squealing with delight over tory tax cuts for the rich was during Osbrowne's omnishambles budget. How did that turn out again? :-)



    Anyway, away from the westminster bubble posturing and lies it is abundantly clear where the political momentum is and it sure ain't with the unionist parties.


    Hadrian Antonine ‏@HadrianAntonine 2h

    Scottish Labour: Coming Soon to a former Labour Heartland near you; 75,000 SNP Members, 6,500 Scottish Greens, 3,600 SSP. #indyref #Scotland



    Which scottish party has more than half the number of the entire UK membership of the tory party and more members than the kippers and lib dems entire UK memberships combined?



    Scotsman ‏@TheScotsman 2h

    @theSNP membership has trebled, with almost 50,000 new members joining since the #indyref almost two weeks ago

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  48. @ Mick Pork

    Douglas Carswell, who resigned from the Tories to contest for UKIP has said the Tories have lost a great many members because of Cameron and their membership figure is below 100,000.

    A figure of 75,000 has been bandied about?

    Interesting.

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  49. @Bugger Le Panda

    Quite right mate. Since the unionist parties have blanketed their membership figures in secrecy it's obviously hard to tell where they are right now. (Though of course the very fact that they don't want to tell anyone the real numbers is a bit of a dead fucking giveaway TBH)


    At the very least what I have said applies on very generous interpretations and estimates for the unionist parties and it makes the figures for the SNP and Yes parties no less astonishing for that.

    So the true picture may very well be far, far worse for them. I would think it quite probable that it is.


    The true test of party membership strength is on the ground during a campaign.

    I know of nobody lunatic or deluded enough to claim that the Yes campaign did not have the far superior ground campaign. It was one of the most formidable and determined pieces campaigning and grass-roots activism/enthusiasm ever seen. It resulted in a truly jawdropping and colossal 85% turnout.

    Well that was with a fraction of the members the Yes parties now have. Imagine what can be achieved with 75,000 SNP Members, 6,500 Scottish Greens, 3,600 SSP and rising.



    We will also find out very soon if the unionist parties membership numbers are all that they say and if they can translate them to a decent ground campaign since even before 2015 there is the Clacton by-election and another soon after. I've a feeling Clacton may well prove that the tories aging membership might be far closer to the estimates you have given and likely not be up to the kind of hard work and dedication required to turn membership numbers into something more concrete on the ground.

    Same goes for labour of course. They have relied on some very dubious party member 'accounting' due to multiple registration, union blocks etc. You only need look at the Falkirk scandal to see the kind of unholy fraudulent mess they can make of such things.

    I also remember a great many VOWS and promises from little Ed in the wake of that scandal. All of which have proven to be as much bullshit as the more powers/DevoMAX unionist VOW looks right now.

    ReplyDelete
  50. @douglas Clark

    "Meanwhile, we bomb Iraq.

    Making the same mistakes, time after time, is what we ought to expect of Westminster."


    You would think they would at least try not to witlessly repeat the same lies and propaganda that the Blairite chickenhawks and warmongers used to persuade the gullible and feeble minded the last time.



    Bob The Skull ‏@BobTheSkutter Sep 30

    Iraq could attack with WMD in 45 minutes http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/isis-could-become-worlds-first-truly-terrorist-state-and-bomb-uk-with-nuclear-and-chemical-weapons-theresa-may-warns-9765049.html … Oh, hang on I was just having a flashback.

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  51. Former Chairman of the Young Conservatives (and champion of the westminster bubble media) Nick Robinson has his tongue so far up Cameron's arse after his tory conf. speech it is clear he too has learned absolutely nothing.

    Having a complete joke of political editor like that is hardly going to help the BBC reverse their plummeting trust levels any time soon.

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  52. I haven't been bothering with TV today. Sounds like I made the right decision (again).

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  53. Latest poll has snp projected to win 49 seats, Labour 6, lib dems 2, tories 2.....never been that high right?

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  54. Yougov scotland
    Snp 43%
    Lab 23%
    Con 17%
    Green 5%
    Cleggs Dreamers 5%
    Ukip 5%

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  55. Chalks, if you're talking about today's YouGov subsample, those projections are meaningless. The margin of error on a single subsample is enormous. And from the headline figures that have been reported so far, it looks like the SNP won't be doing anything like as well in tomorrow's YouGov subsample. That could just be random sampling fluctuation, but it's a reminder of the need to look at a broad range of polls.

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  56. Very encouraging seeing these SNP polls doing well, but fear we'll get sucked in to the UK vacum when the election comes around and it'll be a Tory v Labour battle.

    I just hope so many of these disgruntled Labour voters who ticked Yes on the 18th of Sept, back the SSP, SNP, or Greens rather than Labour.

    I think we need some form of tactical voting in possibly Glasgow. Let the SSP, Greens have a clear run in some areas and the SNP in others.

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  57. Politico daily saying its from tonight?so presumably tomorrows?

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  58. On further inspection,looks like yer right james. Thats why you write the blog lol

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  59. What's the deal with the SSP nowadays? I was under the impression that they were nearly moribund before the rush of new members. What's the direction and who are the leading figures (apart from Colin Fox, I remember him).

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