Thursday, February 2, 2017

Tory cabinet minister boasts that democracy in Scotland is dead with the chilling threat : "Forget it, Jocks"

The UK Defence Secretary Michael Fallon has given an interview in the Herald in which he explains that the respect agenda between the UK government and Scotland must "work two ways".  Here is a quick cut-out-and-keep guide to Mr Fallon's startling notion of each side's required contribution to this vital process of mutual respect...

The UK government's contribution to the respect agenda :

1) When Scotland narrowly votes against independence because the UK government told the public that was the only way to keep Scotland in the EU, the UK government then attempts to take Scotland out of the EU just three years later.

2) When Scotland votes by an overwhelming margin to stay within the EU, the UK government announces that the result doesn't matter.

3) When the Scottish government presents compromise proposals to ensure that Scotland at least remains in the single market after Brexit, the UK government rejects them out of hand before any negotiations have taken place.

4) When the Scottish people give an overwhelming mandate to a party with an explicit manifesto commitment reserving the right to hold an independence referendum if Scotland is dragged out of the EU against its will, the UK government uses the contemptuous words "Forget it" to announce that the mandate will be totally ignored.

5) When an election result leaves the Scottish Parliament with a pro-referendum majority, the UK government redefines the concept of democracy (but only as it applies to Scotland, naturally), and announces that it doesn't matter who won the election - the test is instead whether the winning party lost a few seats.  If this intriguing principle were to be applied more broadly, it would of course mean that Mrs Thatcher "lost" the 1987 election, that John Major "lost" the 1992 election, and that the European Commission would have been entirely within its rights to overturn every majority decision of the British Parliament between 1987 and 1997.  Basically the Fallon Doctrine is : if you don't give your governing party even more seats than last time, you're automatically voting for colonialism.

Scotland's contribution to the respect agenda :

1) Accepting all of the above without complaint.

2) That's it.

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I don't know about you, but after Fallon's mad imperialist intervention I'd be only too delighted to see Nicola Sturgeon end the phony war within the next few weeks by declaring her intention to hold a referendum in 2018, and holding a vote in the Scottish Parliament to demonstrate that the referendum has majority support among this country's elected representatives.  If the UK government then repeats Fallon's boast that Scottish democracy has been abolished, I'd then be only too delighted to see tens of thousands of people peacefully taking to the streets week after week after week to assert that London's rule in our country will be illegitimate until our right to exercise self-determination at a time of our own choosing is fully respected. Oh, and let's make sure we keep the options of calling a consultative referendum without Westminster permission, and of a snap Holyrood election that will double as an independence referendum, firmly on the table.  If the London establishment truly believe this is a fight they can win, I have just three words for them : Bring It On.

By the way, the Herald article completely misrepresents Panelbase's polling yet again.  It claims that support for holding Indyref 2 "by spring 2019" has "fallen significantly" from 43% to 27%.  That's absolute garbage - support for holding a referendum within a maximum of two years (ie. by early 2019) actually stands at 49.4% in the latest Panelbase poll.  The 27% figure is for the option of "in the next year or two", and is not directly comparable to the 43% figure in an earlier poll which was for a different option of "in the next two or three years".  The date of spring 2019 was never specified in any of Panelbase's questions.

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41 comments:

  1. KipperTory Trumpets for unityFebruary 2, 2017 at 2:06 AM

    Herald talking absolute pish about polling yet again.

    Twit of a tory MP doesn't have a clue what a mandate is as he stamps his petulant little feet in impotent rage.

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  2. Michael Gray ‏@GrayInGlasgow 2h

    Ruth Davidson in October: Tories shouldn't “go round threatening to block #indyref2...It would play directly into the Nationalists’ hands.”

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  3. Good to hear from Michael Fallon that Ruby Mortensen is leading the Tories in Scotland. Make a nice change from Tanktop.

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    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 2, 2017 at 11:45 AM

      Why are you Tartan Tories obcessed with the Blue Tories. You have been on board with the Thatcher legacy since you came to power. Buses, trains, public utilities etc. Refusing to raise tax. You take donations from ex Tory donators. You are Tories, end off. Try being honest fash mob.

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    2. Off you pop, sweetie, it's your turn to write to the Dreary Heil in green ink.

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    3. @ Glasgow Working Class 2...
      You mean being HONEST like Labour? LIke the war mongerer Blair was when he addressed the House of Commons and told a blatant lie, (start of project fear) which even the enquiry admitted he did. OR the lie about WHEN he actually told BUSH, "Y'all can bet I am with you no matter what." The thing about HIS lies and those of your party is, HE & they with their bloody daft voting, killed MILLIONS of people, HE brought jihadist to these shores. IT must be the only time the LABOUR party did not ABSTAIN. If you were really (working class) you would have opened your eyes by now, smelled the coffee, and said FCUK this so called PEOPLES/WORKERS party, I want INDEPENDENCE from the racist war mongering WESTMINSTER.

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    4. Glasgow Working Class 2February 3, 2017 at 2:00 AM

      He was honest and the majority swallyed his lies because they knew he was lying. He wanted rid of Saddam and it happened. He and Bush won and the oil was secured. You are so naive Kate. Stick to raffia work and fluffy bunnies.

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    5. Absolute bloody state of this.

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  4. Another Tory minister lording it over Scotland again will they ever learn. Wonder what Francis Begbie would say, assuming he would be an indy supporter.

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    1. Given Francis Begbie's past as a violent drunk, yes he probably would be

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    2. Typical ignorant Tory, doesn't realise it is a Union, England doesn't own Scotland no matter how many times they tell themselves they do

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    3. Glasgow Working Class 2February 2, 2017 at 11:58 AM

      Most Scots do not own anything in Scotland except maybe the hoose they live in. And of course Scotland is an independent nation that happens to have a successful Union with its neighbour England. The motivation from nationalists to break the Union is merely driven by the hatred of the English. It is racist.

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    4. Absolute bloody state of this.

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  5. I apologise for my last comment. The truth is that I like the idea of Scotland being a colony because I'm a British Nationalist. Looking down on Scots makes me feel important and special. I am angry and bitter and I need an outlet for all the hate I have inside me.

    Sorry for being a prick.

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    Replies
    1. We forgive you. Everyone gets a little overheated from time to time.

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  6. There could be no more proof that Scotland is an occupied territory than what has happened with brexshit, and since the english voted to remove all so called UK subjects, (citizens in Scotland) from the EU. Democracy is certainy without doubt, dead in the yookay as it stands at the moment.

    A backward, destructive, mean, nasty, fascist little britain, the Trumps whipping boy. How very 21st century, not!

    Scotland has been shown zilch respect by WM, the tories, and red tories yet they expect 'respect" for their lies and manipulation, for their bullying and their contempt towards us. I don't bloody think so. Scotland will actually die as a country if we don't get out of their bastard union, nevermind democracy. At present we have the SNP, only the SNP standing up and working for Scotland's people. If sending 56 SNP MPs to WM wasn't a mandate for which direction Scotland needs and want to go in, I don't know what is.

    England needs to stand on his own 2 feet, and respect those who chose to take a positive, life affirming path, go their own way, amicably

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  7. Sorry everyone but I have to confess that I am just an ignorant angry troll who has nothing better to do than spouting utter shite on pro-indy blogs and forums. My hatred towards Scotland becoming independent is due to the fact that I am an ignorant bigot. Just ignore everything I say in future.

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  8. If there was any doubt about Scotland's future after indy1 it is clear for all to see that as far as Westminster is concerned,they like to pretend that we ceased to exist 300 years ago when their pretendy "union" was formed.
    However,that being the case,it is odd that Cameron felt he had to "allow" a Scottish independence referendum to go ahead in 2014.
    From that,we have to conclude that when faced with the reality of a Scottish initiated referendum,Westminster has to acknowledge international law and practice in terms of self determination and "allow" it to happen.
    Once they are free from the constraints of EU law and human rights however,they will probably feel confident that they can do what they like and thumb a nose at the international community,especially with where Trumpland is heading.
    So,we need to regain our statehood before the UK leaves the EU for a number of very good reasons.
    I think the EU should invite California to join up to a new trade deal which would more than compensate for the loss of England's business.
    Also the Pacific countries,having been elbowed out of the way by Trump must be pretty interested as well.
    It is only England which feels it is a great idea to turn it's back on the biggest trading block in the world and deluding itself that it can become a world power again.
    In their dreams.


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  9. It goes kind of like this:

    Steady....Hold

    62% Remain....Steady Hold

    May ignores Sturgeons offers....steady hold

    Fallon tells Scots they can't have a referendum...steady hold..

    Parliament votes for Brexit...steady hold

    White paper ignores amendments.....steady hold

    Article 50 triggered ..........

    Whites of Eyes........Now Charge!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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  10. Just another example from Fallon of the arrogance and ignorance these britnats have for Scotland.

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  11. How does this make Scottish independence more likely if there's no referendum?

    What are you going to do? UDI? That'll work when the country is split half and half. I look forward to the civil war. Or more likely the quiet seething against the english, who don't even have their own parliament so it can't be them doing this.

    Late breaking news: Due to Cowdenbeath being refused entry to the SPL they say they are totally wound up and going to beat Celtic 7-0. When pointed out they would never play Celtic because of this very ruling, the Blue Brazil put their fingers in their ears and started screeching.

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    1. Absolute bloody state of this.

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    2. We need rules to stop certain demographics from voting. Certainly the ones I disagree with. What if Scots voted for independence? I wouldn't like that at all.

      We just can't risk democracy in Scotland. And anyway Trump will save us with a jam-and-missile-based trade deal if we grovel enough at the altar of his great flaxen-haired majesticness.

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    3. You live in a country where the avoidance of tax is looked on as a less serious transgression than being one minute late for a DWP interview

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  12. 1: Your memory of the referendum may be different to mine but I don't think the defining issue was membership of the EU...of course it was mentioned but it was nowhere near being main focus of either campaign...and to be honest if it had so called Project Fear would have latched onto it with a vengeance...hard borders etc etc. Plus it is hard to argue bad faith on behalf of unionist politicians on both sides of the border when the EU referendum was proposed well before (march 2014) the Scottish referendum (sept 2014) + all the Scottish politicians (+ majority of UK politicians) who campaigned for the union campaigned just as vigourously for remaining in EU...I seem to remember Ruth Davidson for example handing BoJo his ass during a National debate on the issue

    2: Scotland dindn't vote on EU membership...the UK did. Basically this boils down to an unwillingness of Fanationalists to accept the democratic will of the Scottish people in the 2014 Referendum. BTW 41%% of voting public is hardly an overwhelming mandate...

    3: Any compromise policies are completely unworkeable and the SNP knows it which is of course why they propose them...no modern unitary state has ever existed within which there are different customs regimes within that state...to argue that is possible is either the height of cynicism or stupidity

    4: If they had an overwhelming mandate they would have a absolute majority in Holyrood and they don't. And while many voters for the SNP voted for the second referendum it is clear many others voted for them for other reasons...otherwise why is their election polling always ahead of the indy or indy ref polling. For me it is clear that their is a significant portion of the electorate who like the SNP "standing up for Scotland" but balk at actual independence

    5: The point that Fallon is making is that the SNP support has peaked...an unknowable fact until we have another election of course...but just as the SNP successfully spun a convincingly lost independence referendum into some kind of historic victory...he is spinning a reduction in SNP vote share and a gain in Conservative vote share...it is called politics

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    1. Scotland dindn't vote on EU membership...the UK did. Basically this boils down to an unwillingness of Fanationalists to accept the democratic will of the Scottish people in the 2014 Referendum. BTW 41%% of voting public is hardly an overwhelming mandate...

      We're leaving the EU on the say of 37% of the voting public.

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    2. True but no one (sensible) claims an "overwhelming" mandate for Leave

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    3. Also if 41% is an "overwhelming" mandate then what is 46%? (percentage of pro Union voters in 2014)..a stupendously overwhelming mandate...perhaps one big enough to eliminate the need for another referendum

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    4. No-one considered that the Tories would win the election so all talk of the proposed EU referendum was just that..all talk.
      Please stop using % of voting public as an indication of anything. If people don't vote they don't count.

      As for the SNP "peaking"! Aye, they have...for the last 10 years according to many journalists :D

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  13. Glasgow Working Class 2February 2, 2017 at 5:24 PM

    Jock Nat si fash take over Croy post office raise the Saltire and declare UDI. Thousands of locals come out in support waving Irish Tricolours. Confused Nat sis retreat thinking they are in the wrong country. Post office opens tomorrow and large queues expected from local community for benefit collection.

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    1. Absolute bloody state of this.

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  14. Look if the SNP were stupid (or more likely coldly cynical enough) to ignore the clearly stated and well publicised intention of the governing party of the time that is fine...but you cannot claim later that you weren't aware of the possibility the UK would have a referendum on europe and that the result of that referendum would be to leave
    Yes potential voters who don't vote don't count...unless you are trying to claim a "overwhelming majority" of voters support your position...if 59% of eligible voters either vote against or abstain from your position then you do not have an "overwhelming" majority. And lets be honest...if the indy ref had been No but with a turnout of 40% do you really imagine SNP fanatics would be shrugging their shoulders philosphically and placidly accepting the result...get real

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    1. Two points, Dunderheid : you're essentially arguing that a) the electorate should have known that the No campaign were lying to them about EU membership, and b) 46% of the eligible electorate voting for a particular option in a referendum reaches the threshold for the abolition of democracy. Neither of those arguments strike me as being terribly promising.

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    2. Nobody lied...they may have grossly underestimated (and thereby underemphasised) the chance that a future referendum would actually take place and that if it did the vote would be to leave the EU...but that works both ways...the SNP never campaigned seriously or in any prolonged matter on the EU and if the leave EU had been polling in the high 50's you can be sure that the No campaign for the indyref would have gone all in on the issue of hard borders, customs tariffs etc etc
      Also unsurprisingly for an SNP propaganda outlet (lets say the Drudge report to Wings Breitbart) you fundamentally misunderstand the concept of democracy...the point of it being that if you accept to be part of a polity (ie voting in a referendum to remain part of UK and all that entails) you than have to accept that the majority decision of that polity may not be ones you agree with...for example not even the most deranged fanationalists argue that because Dundee voted for independence their democratic rights have been trampled on because the rest of Scotland didnt

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  15. Go James! When do we start marching?

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  16. Glasgow Working Class 2February 3, 2017 at 6:29 PM

    Just wondering Nat sis if the Yes had won by one vote would that have been a mandate for independence?

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    Replies
    1. Tell it to the Dreary Heil, dearie, in your favourite green ink.

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    2. Glasgow Working ClassFebruary 4, 2017 at 12:21 PM

      Simple Yes or No question or have you transferred the banana from your erse tae yer mouth.

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    3. Absolute bloody state of this.

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