You'd think that this key lesson from history, ie. that a de facto referendum in 1918 succeeded where an agreed referendum failed in 2014, would at least lead to the idea of a de facto referendum being treated with proper respect throughout the independence movement, and that it certainly wouldn't be wrongly dismissed as "crazy" or "bonkers" - but nevertheless that's precisely the message we've been hearing over the last couple of weeks from the former SNP MPs Stewart McDonald and Tommy Sheppard. Mr McDonald has always been something of an outlier in the stridency of his opposition to those who seek to win an independence mandate by any non-London-approved route, but it's more concerning to hear the same sort of rhetoric from Mr Sheppard. It may be a symptom of a climate that the SNP leadership are trying to foster within the party - one in which the whole idea of using a scheduled election to win a mandate for independence is deligitimised and placed beyond the bounds of acceptable or reasonable debate.
Straw men, misdirection, and wildly inaccurate claims abound in Mr Sheppard's article. He tries to make out, for example, that a unilateral declaration of independence would inevitably have to follow any victory in a de facto referendum, and that this is partly what makes the whole plan "bonkers". Well, it's true that some - but not all - proponents of a de facto referendum would want UDI afterwards, but by the same token there are some opponents of a de facto referendum (most notably Craig Murray) who just want to go ahead and declare UDI without any sort of mandate at all. A de facto referendum and UDI are self-evidently two completely separate things, and conflating the two is nothing more than a misleading debating tactic. It's perfectly possible to have a de facto referendum on a consultative basis and to simply use any successful result as powerful leverage to bring the UK government to the negotiating table.
It's telling, incidentally, that Mr Murray himself uses a mirror image of Mr Sheppard's straw man argument. In a recent tweet, Mr Murray said: "The SNP have started stating, as a matter of principle, that Independence MUST only be achieved with the agreement of Westminster." If the SNP are stating that, they're just stating the obvious, and they're even stating something that logically Mr Murray must agree with, because why else would he be arguing for independence supporters to lay down their lives by standing unarmed in front of British tanks and waiting to be crushed? It must be because he thinks that Ghandian tactics will lead to London accepting Scottish independence - which means he tacitly agrees that London's acceptance will eventually be needed. So the problem is not that the SNP leadership are correctly saying that London's agreement will ultimately be needed for independence - it's that they're wrongly saying that London's agreement will be needed for us to seek or win a mandate for independence, which in reality is plainly something we can do entirely constitutionally and legally without London's consent.
Mr Sheppard and Mr Murray agree on pretty much nothing other than their opposition to a de facto referendum, so the fact that they're both trying to gloss over the absolutely fundamental distinction between unilaterally seeking an outright mandate for independence and unilaterally declaring independence ought to set some pretty massive alarm bells ringing.
The most jaw-dropping double-standard in all of this is the endlessly-repeated claim from the 'caution' faction that a de facto referendum strategy must by definition be a dud strategy unless its proponents can show how it would automatically lead to Scotland becoming an independent country. If that same logic were to be applied to the 'caution' faction's own strategy of seeking a mandate for a Section 30 order, that strategy would already have been proved beyond doubt to be a dud on a galactic scale, because by my count we have won no fewer than five clear-cut mandates for a Section 30 order since 2016, but a Section 30 order has never actually followed.
Oh, but wait: Mr Sheppard goes on to argue that we can still "force" London's hand by "driving public support for independence to much higher levels". In other words, a majority in favour of independence, which we already have in an average of all opinion polls, is woefully insufficient and we instead need some sort of eye-wateringly fantastical supermajority. Not only does that abandon the entire principle of democratic self-determination (by implicitly saying that Scotland should be forced to remain in the UK if only a 'narrow' majority of its people wish to become independent) but it's also magical thinking. The idea that London will refuse a referendum when defeat for the No side is merely likely, but will suddenly agree to a referendum when defeat for the No side becomes certain, is for the birds.
Mr Sheppard prays in aid the lower support for pro-independence parties than for independence itself as an additional reason for believing a de facto referendum would be unsuccessful. But that looks at the problem the wrong way round. The reason that independence support has become decoupled from SNP support is that some voters no longer believe that independence is on offer if they vote SNP. Change that perception, as you would do pretty much automatically by seeking an outright mandate for independence, and many of those voters would come flooding back.
Perhaps most dodgily of all, Mr Sheppard claims that the SNP conference has already roundly rejected the concept of a de facto referendum. Well, I was a delegate at the SNP conference last October, and I therefore know that we were invited to reject a de facto referendum specifically for this year's election on the basis that we could trust the leadership to win a single-party overall majority and then use it to force a Section 30 order out of the UK government. As that entire premise turned out to be bogus, it's plainly an open question whether conference would back a de facto referendum for future elections, if given a chance to do so.
The puzzling thing is this. The SNP leadership are not remotely squeamish about questioning the UK government's democratic legitimacy in ignoring repeated mandates for Scotland's right to choose. Well, success in a de facto referendum would strengthen our hand in questioning the UK government's democratic legitimacy, because by that point London would be ignoring a mandate for independence itself, not just a mandate for a referendum. Why suddenly become squeamish about that, when the principle is identical? As I said a few days ago, it's almost as if some people in the independence movement do not want to live in a world in which the No vote from 2014 has been clearly overturned, and would prefer to continue living in a world in which London still has the 2014 result to fall back on to provide some cover for its obstructionism. That's a psychological phenomenon which should perplex and trouble us all.
* * *
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Well said. The current SNP leadership are willingly playing a devolution role. Swinney's SNP only votes strategy could only have been one of two things. A cynical way of ensuring we would not have a mandate or an act of utter stupidity. And he is not a stupid man.With the current leadership we face devolution for the foreseeable future. If Farage gets in who knows what we face. And in the meantime having drained us of our oil, they are now about to drain us of our water.
ReplyDeleteThere's no problem at all with a both votes SNP strategy, which I fully support. That's a completely separate issue.
DeleteExcellent article James.
ReplyDeleteI do not accept that any true independence supporter would not want to have a democratic mandate for Scottish independence to show that the country has moved on from 2014. This yes mandate would be in spite of the Britnats controlling the media in Scotland and using it to convince so many Scots that we uniquely in the world are too poor, too wee, and too stupid to be independent. Norway, across the North Sea with its largest in the world wealth fund clearly shows for anyone who looks the opportunity cost of being in the HM Prison UK. Better together is a massive scam.
All countries who left the British Empire had Westminster’s consent eventually. A lot are now pally with the UK in the Commonwealth. A lot did not have Westminster’s consent to be independent at the start of the process. Self determination is a human right and as you rightly say James , we do not need Westminster’s consent to hold a de facto referendum. We need a proper independence leadership in the SNP.
If you look at the actual numbers (not % vote share ) who voted in the 2014 referendum and the actual numbers who voted SNP in May 2026 the difference is stark. People no longer believe as they did in 2014 that the SNP is serious about independence and they are correct.
The SNP cry that there is a democratic deficit is as weak as watered down pish and just as unpleasant to swallow. There is no democracy for Scotland. England/Westminster can just overrule anything we vote for they don’t like and they do so in practice.
The SNP continue to rail against the UK Supreme court decision on what a woman and a man are but meekly, and conveniently for them, just accept the ruling on no indyref2 unless Westminster says yes.
It’s about time the SNP shouted ( and shouted all the time ) from the rooftops that Scotland was not only taken out the EU against its will but is being held in a prison. But they won’t because they are happy with the current situation - devolution. That makes them devolutionists and therefore Britnats.
Truly desperate stuff from Ifs.
DeleteOh dear!
It’s desperate this time. So you are not embarrassed. KC you are a clown🤡.
DeleteWould you say that all recently joined SNP members are devolutionists? I cannot see any other reason to join.
DeleteIt’s you who should be embarrassed Ifs!
DeleteKC saying desperate or embarrassed is not much of an argument for staying in HM Prison Scotland. Is this really what James has been deleting for years. Is this you at the top of your game? 🫏🫏 hee haw, hee haw you are a bit of an ass KC. Your glory days of sneaky Tartan Tam are behind you.
DeleteExcellent article James.
ReplyDeleteI do not accept that any true independence supporter would not want to have a democratic mandate for Scottish independence to show that the country has moved on from 2014. This yes mandate would be in spite of the Britnats controlling the media in Scotland and using it to convince so many Scots that we uniquely in the world are too poor, too wee, and too stupid to be independent. Norway, across the North Sea with its largest in the world wealth fund clearly shows for anyone who looks the opportunity cost of being in the HM Prison UK. Better together is a massive scam.
All countries who left the British Empire had Westminster’s consent eventually. A lot are now pally with the UK in the Commonwealth. A lot did not have Westminster’s consent to be independent at the start of the process. Self determination is a human right and as you rightly say James , we do not need Westminster’s consent to hold a de facto referendum. We need a proper independence leadership in the SNP.
If you look at the actual numbers (not % vote share ) who voted in the 2014 referendum and the actual numbers who voted SNP in May 2026 the difference is stark. People no longer believe as they did in 2014 that the SNP is serious about independence and they are correct.
The SNP cry that there is a democratic deficit is as weak as watered down pish and just as unpleasant to swallow. There is no democracy for Scotland. England/Westminster can just overrule anything we vote for they don’t like and they do so in practice.
The SNP continue to rail against the UK Supreme court decision on what a woman and a man are but meekly, and conveniently for them, just accept the ruling on no indyref2 unless Westminster says yes.
It’s about time the SNP shouted ( and shouted all the time ) from the rooftops that Scotland was not only taken out the EU against its will but is being held in a prison. But they won’t because they are happy with the current situation - devolution. That makes them devolutionists and therefore Britnats.
the english had to be booted kicking and screaming out of any place they ever embedded their parasitic tentacles - then, just for badness, they always "take a massive shit" on the way out the door.
DeleteThey leave mess everywhere they go - india-pakistan, northern ireland, nigeria, the whole of the middle east. Don't expect them to play nice. Our real wealth, our massive resources act as collateral for all their city paper printing - it is not walking out the door on a show of hands.
The people who knew best how to deal with the anglos were the afghans and the jewish settlers in palestine. They did it right.
The “caution” faction of the SNP are doing an astonishingly good impression of the Irish Parliamentary Party. They’re content to take Westminster’s gold whilst progressing independence not one iota.
ReplyDeleteStewart McDonald got used to collecting the equivalent of £98.6 k pa plus expenses, adjusted for inflation. Faced with the prospects of returning to his career as a holiday rep, he chose to shill for BAE Systems. McDonald claimed to have entered into politics out of concern for Palestinians, now he campaigns to arm the genocide against them.
Swinney is about to loose the specter of his useful bogeyman and recruiting Sergeant, Nigel Farage. Having promoted the line; “only the SNP can save you from a Reform, Westminster government”, the absence of that threat implies acceptability of the alternative.
ReplyDeleteHello Anon@1.37pm... Teacher here with your spelling report:-
DeleteAtrocious!
Lose not loose (tut-tut)....... spectre not specter (oh dear).
Must try and do better!
# then again...since you're obviously a yoon/anti SNP ....you probably cant.
Anon at 2.03 pm ... LOL, shot yourself in the foot there. It's can't not cant.
DeleteAnon@3-13pm Oh dear .... another clot!
DeleteI said SPELLING report..... not punctuation!
Naughty step for you!
Get out the class and stand in the corridor the lot of you!
DeleteAnyone in the SNP care to back up what Swinney said and explain how the SNP can save Scotland from a Reform Westminster government other than independence. Is Swinney going to bore them Into submission?
DeleteAnon 1.37 is AI.
DeleteAll you say is true, however the SNP have no intention of furthering the Independence cause, and their use of the Independence word only comes into play at election time. Last weeks announcement on consolidating 14 regional health boards to just 2, is clearly not in patients interest and is a cost cutting measure, which in itself is a massive undertaking, that will take years to implement, thus showing the SNP are forecasting living under a Westminster financial straight jacket for the foreseeable future. meanwhile our people and country continue to get poorer, sicker and more divided under British rule.
ReplyDeleteThere was a civil war in Ireland after independence.
ReplyDeleteAnd presumably all that would have been avoided if only it hadn't been a de facto referendum?! Come off it. You're going to have to try harder than that.
DeleteYou didn't mention it, and it was right after Irish independence.
DeleteIf you have a point to make, perhaps you could try making it. At the moment my Point Detector is indicating that you do not appear to have one.
DeleteYou are also punting an election where women were only allowed to vote if they were over 30 and married. It is just a bad analogy. Whatever. You are really into the idea of a single-issue election campaign. I get it, but I think you may be in a small minority, though.
DeleteNo, you really are going to have try a lot harder than that. Women over the age of 30 was the franchise in the UK in 1918. It would have applied to an agreed referendum every bit as much as it applied to the de facto referendum. Again, what's your point here? You don't have one, do you? You're viscerally opposed to a de facto referendum, but you *don't actually know why*. Gloriously bizarre.
DeleteAnd by the way, you can dispense with the silly bluff about supporters of a de facto referendum being in a "small minority" and opponents of it being in the vast majority. We both know that's the polar opposite of the truth.
And me being "really into a single-issue election"? Nope. Yet another straw man. A de facto referendum might be single issue or it might not be.
Anon at 2.32 is talking out of his or her arse. Women did not have to be married to vote in 1918. There was a property requirement, but being unmarried was not a bar.
DeleteThe idea of the SNP getting the majority of the votes in an election if they ran a single-item campaign is unbelievable, and the fallout is predictable (dead SNP, dead independence). The only route to independence is obvious, but it isn't dependant on the SNP (so it currently won't be allowed to happen).
ReplyDeleteAnyway, when your latest favourite route to independence sounds like a latin mass, felicitere!
The ONLY viable route to independence is via the SNP.
DeleteYou and others may not like that fact but you're going to have to live with it nonetheless.
The only viable route to independence is with the sustained overwhelming support of the people of Scotland. The SNP may be a help, or they may be a hinderance. That much could also be said of any political party. But political partys are so much easier than a mass movement.
DeleteThe idea of the SNP getting the majority of the votes in an election if they ran a single-item campaign is unbelievable
DeleteAny particular reason you find it so unbelievable?
The only route to independence is obvious, but it isn't dependant on the SNP (so it currently won't be allowed to happen).
Care to share it?
"The idea of the SNP getting the majority of the votes in an election if they ran a single-item campaign is unbelievable"
DeleteWhy??
Youre saying scots wont vote for independence then. Were as well packing up now. Plenty countries would vote for a party to ensure its independence, I see no reason why scots would be different if the proposition was popular.
"The idea of the SNP getting the majority of the votes in an election if they ran a single-item campaign is unbelievable"
DeleteWhy??
Youre saying scots wont vote for independence then. Were as well packing up now. Plenty countries would vote for a party to ensure its independence, I see no reason why scots would be different if the proposition was popular.
I have given up on the SNP delivering us Indy. They are now a party of careerist useless Wokes and Brit Stooges. A plague on them.
ReplyDeleteAnon@3-42pm Define Woke (3-42 straight onto AI).
DeleteAch there's always Sovreignity
Delete7.52pm why do you recommend Sovereignty? Care to tell us more. I think you spelled it wrong. Never mind we all make mistakes don’t take it to heart it doesn’t mean you are an idiot.
DeleteThe route to independence is the one that delivers it. Only in retrospect will we actually be able to recognise it. Carpe Diem.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMr Sheppard prays in aid the lower support for pro-independence parties than for independence itself as an additional reason for believing a de facto referendum would be unsuccessful.
ReplyDeleteThis is (part of the reason) why I've always said the mandate has to be based on a one-line manifesto from the independence parties: the whole idea would be to get people to vote for the SNP (or whoever) who don't necessarily support their other policies. That's also why it has to be a Westminster election, because at Holyrood the SNP actually need to propose some kind of programme for government.
If it's not a one-line manifesto, there isn't anything to distinguish a "de facto referendum" from a normal election. In the event of a Yes win, Unionists could easily dismiss it with "how are we to know people didn't just vote for the SNP's policy on bus lanes?" And they'd be right, we wouldn't know that.
Good point. Leaves no room for opponents to say people didn't know what they were voting for.
DeleteIt's Tomlin again and don't give it all that I'm not Tomlin nonsense. You are Tomlin and you know you're Tomlin. You're a thick plank of wud Tomlin.
DeleteWT it’s not really a good point because it can be easily circumvented using a one off Holyrood election.
DeleteThe independence majority in Holyrood do not need to wait for a scheduled election date. They can collapse the current government set a date for a new election and say it is about 100% the rights of Scotland to self determination and choose independence or not. No mention of policies. Single issue election. It’s crystal clear that this is not a normal election. This cannot be done in a Westminster election. There will be all the English noise about their politics distracting attention if a standard UK election is used.
Keaton I have explained this point (@7.12pm) to you previously on SGP.
DeleteWhat is missing is the will of the SNP to do something radical.
Hence all the surrender monkeys saying we just have to wait for decades and it will just happen. I can’t make up my mind if that is more stupid than those who say Westminster will eventually cave in to “ Scottish” democracy and grant a section 30 when there is overwhelming support for yes in the polls. Britnats do not recognise Scottish democracy. No such thing as far as they are concerned. Only British democracy.
Farage - “ I have done nothing wrong.”
ReplyDeleteSturgeon - “ I have done nothing wrong.”
Both cut from the same cloth.
No de facto referendum is the price set by the UK state for keeping Sturgeon out of jail.
ReplyDeleteMcDonald, Sheppard and Murray, are bonkers.
ReplyDeleteYesindyref2 I do not agree with some of Murray’s views or actions but he very bravely supported Salmond against the British state trying to send him to jail, aided and abetted by SNP personnel. Instead they sent Murray to jail and he missed the early months of his new baby son’s life. Sent there by a vindictive judge on trumped up charges that no jury would convict on. He deserves a better measure of respect than calling him bonkers.
DeleteKC says he is British and Scottish. Sturgeon declared she was British and Scottish. Neither have said to what extent. I say they are both 99.9% British and 0.1% Scottish.
ReplyDeleteSilly comment about Sturgeon.
Delete7.49 pm. Ok if you insist Sturgeon is 100% British. Happy now.
DeleteFrom the National: "Greens making no secret of targeting Nicola Sturgeon supporters"
ReplyDeleteIn all fairness now, I can't see Dr Jim ever voting Green.