Still smarting from Bonnie Prince Bob's excoriating video calling him out on his apologism for the genocide in Gaza, Stuart "Stew" Campbell has made a quite astoundingly defamatory statement about Bob, suggesting he must be a frequenter of 'saunas' simply because he opposes Ash Regan's bill introducing the Nordic Model on prostitution law. With any luck Bob will sue the hell out of Stew.
As long-term readers of this blog know, I'm also strongly opposed to the Nordic Model, and in fact I think I first blogged about the subject before Wings Over Scotland even existed. But from a party political point of view, what interests me most are the chances of the Regan bill passing, because there's an obvious tension here. There's probably a natural majority in the Scottish Parliament in favour of the Nordic Model, foolish though that is - the SNP, Labour and the Tories all seem attracted to the idea (gloriously ironic in the Tories' case given that the Nordic Model is rooted in Marxist concepts of class struggle and 'false consciousness'), and yet there's a massive obvious downside to SNP MSPs allowing the bill through, because that would give Ash Regan a huge propaganda win as she bids for re-election either as an Alba candidate or as a candidate for a new McEleny/Regan party or as an independent. That's a genie they won't be keen to let out of the bottle. Additionally, passing the bill could make it harder for the SNP to do a confidence-and-supply deal with the Greens if one is necessary after next May's election, because the Greens are viscerally opposed to the Nordic Model and instead favour the decriminalisation of prostitution.
So I did a Google search to see if I could find out which way the wind is blowing, particularly as far as SNP MSPs are concerned. I ended up none the wiser, but I did discover that sex workers opposed to the bill mounted a fightback a few days ago, and in doing so cited a major YouGov poll of Scottish adults from a year ago that I must have overlooked at the time. With a bit of difficulty I've tracked the data tables down, and the results are truly remarkable. It's not a surprise that the public would oppose the Nordic Model due to the harm it causes in practice to vulnerable sex workers, but what perhaps is quite startling is that it turns out that a plurality of the public think prostitution should remain legal as a matter of principle, even before any other factors are taken into account.
YouGov poll of adults in Scotland, 13th-17th May 2024:
Generally speaking do you think it should or should not be legal in Scotland for a person to do the following…
Pay someone to have sex with them?
Should be legal: 47%
Should not be legal: 32%
As far as I can see there's no funny business going on here, there's no Yes, Minister question-ladder effect distorting people's answers. Only one question seems to have been asked prior to the above one, and that was a scrupulously neutral question asking what the top three government policy priorities should be. So the results can be regarded as entirely credible.
I think it's fair to say that many of our elected parliamentarians simply think the public are wrong about this. Which is fine - as I said about the gender self-ID issue in 2021, it's perfectly legitimate in a parliamentary democracy for MSPs to vote in defiance of the public's wishes, as long as they're clear-sighted and honest about what they're doing, and don't try to delude themselves that the public are happy about it when the polar opposite is true. Sadly, however, that kind of honesty is rarely forthcoming.
It may also be of some interest to SNP MSPs to learn that the kind of liberal, pro-independence, pro-Europe voters they rely on to get elected are even more likely to be in favour of keeping the purchase of sex legal. Remain voters from 2016 are in favour of it by a margin of 50% to 28%, while in contrast Leave voters are opposed by a slender margin of 41% to 39%. Yes voters from the 2014 independence referendum also favour keeping prostitution legal by a bigger margin (49% to 31%) than No voters do (44% to 33%).
The poll shows the public also think that accepting payment for sex (ie. as opposed to purchasing it) should remain legal, by the even bigger margin of 50% to 29%. However, that's the part of the equation the Nordic Model doesn't criminalise (at least not on paper).
Thinking about your local area, which of the following comes closest to your view…
I would prefer for sex workers to look for business on the street: 2%
I would prefer for sex workers to look for business online: 63%
The point here is that the Nordic Model effectively forces sex workers back onto the streets, in defiance of the public's overwhelming wishes. Why does it do that? Simply because once the purchase of sex is criminalised, clients of sex workers will consider it too risky to make the initial approach online in case they are being monitored. Instead they'll look for direct face-to-face interactions, thus forcing sex workers looking for trade to do so in much less safe conditions, and arguably causing a totally unnecessary 'public nuisance'.
Which of the following comes closest to your view?
Sex work, even when carried out by those who choose to engage in it, should always be considered to be violence against women: 13%
Sex work, carried out by those who choose to engage in it, should not always be considered to be violence against women: 62%
On paper, that's the most damning result of all for the Regan bill, because the entire logic of the Nordic Model is predicated on the Marxist-rooted assumption that ALL sex work, without exception, is a form of male violence against women, and that it's therefore acceptable to discriminate by gender in the policing of an effective ban on prostitution by only criminalising the male purchaser and not the female seller (who is supposedly a victim suffering from 'false consciousness'). However, again, it seems that many parliamentarians simply believe the public are wrong to reject this ideology.
When the Scottish Government is considering new laws to keep sex workers safe, do you think they should or should not consult sex workers and sex worker-led groups that represent them?
The Scottish Government should consult sex workers and sex worker-led groups that represent them: 79%
The Scottish Government should not consult sex workers and sex worker-led groups that represent them: 7%
I suspect this might be the most promising get-out clause for any SNP MSPs who have sympathy for the Nordic Model but who also want to avoid boosting Ash Regan's election hopes - they could simply point out that the consultation that has taken place was wholly inadequate and indeed was largely a sham, and that if legislation on the subject is to be taken forward, it would be much better for it to be done by the Scottish Government rather than by a private member. That way, there's a far better chance that the interests of all affected parties can be properly considered and protected.
It has come as quite a surprise that so many people are opposed to the Nordic model. To me it seems an absolutely obvious thing to do to try and clamp down on human trafficking and coercion, based on everything I've seen and read. Baffles me that people are so opposed to it.
ReplyDeleteThe whole principle behind it is discriminatory. If you're going to criminalise prostitution, just criminalise it - dispense with all the woo-woo metaphysical stuff about one party to the transaction being a victim of false consciousness and the other party being a bastard instrument of the patriarchy.
DeleteBut the broader question is whether criminalising sex work increases or decreases harm to sex workers themselves. I have no doubt that it increases harm.
Thankfully, simply criminising something banishes it from existence. Phew!
DeleteMeanwhile, sex workers are quite adamant they want nothing less than legalisation. That way they have worker’s rights like the rest of us.
The main point I've seen made is that it stops criminalising people who are being coerced and trafficked into sex work. And no, not all sex workers are, but many, especially in countries that have legalised it, are.
DeleteAnyone who thinks the motivation for this is as outlined by Anon at 7.12...well I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
DeleteThe YouGov poll is particularly surprising as it goes against the narrative of Scotland being socially conservative, which was strongly indicated by overwhelming public opposition to gender reform.
DeletePick the bones out of that one.
Given that gender ideology is inherently misogynistic and homophobic, the Scottish public's views on gender reform were the complete opposite of socially conservative. This poll seems well aligned with the Scottish public's liberal attitude.
DeleteThe homophobes and misoginists who want to castrate gay children and force women to undress in front of men are a minority in Scotland, thankfully.
Ash Regan's proposal would be disastrous for the safety of women (and men - yes there are men too!!!) involved in prostitution. All it would do is drive it further underground than it already is as the buyers would go to greater lengths to avoid being caught and prosecuted. This idea that making it illegal to buy sex would eliminate demand is pie in the sky wishful thinking at best, and downright dangerous at worst. No wonder sex workers themselves and the groups who represent them are overwhelmingly opposed to this ill thought out and dangerous bill, and it seems the public have the same sensible approach too.
ReplyDeleteTbh, Ash’s support for the Nordic Model was the thing that put me right off her, back when she was running for the SNP leadership. That’s up there with being pro fracking, or for keeping Trident, in the diddy stakes.
DeleteThat context feels like so much longer ago now than it was, doesn’t it?
The current SNP leadership are pro Freeports and pro Flamingoland. Neither of those are positions I agree with but I'll put that to one side for the greater good of pro independence and stable government.
DeleteI happen to agree with Ash Regan on a lot of things (including this bill) and she's more passionate about indy than most. Unfortunately, her poor judgement of who she allies with and general flakiness are a real turn off.
Wtf is Flamingoland
DeleteIs your Google broken?
DeleteIf Ash Regan stands as an independent and positions herself as ex SNP due to differences over Gender reform (and completely omits any mention of her time in Alba) she'll pick up a lot of votes from the less politically engaged voters.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised you don't support the model James. Also, sex workers attitude to it is a strange. If it was made illegal then surely de hos could just get proper jobs instead rather than being exploited in this industry?
ReplyDeleteHave you considered the possibility that some of them have actually made a free choice, albeit in this imperfect world which is full of imperfect choices? They may have looked at the alternatives and decided this is the best or least worst option available to them, and may also be quite miffed that you're trying to interfere with their own decisions.
DeleteBut again, there's a broader point here, which is that sex work will continue regardless of the law, because the law cannot end demand. So if sex work is bound to exist, the question should be: how do you keep the women involved as safe as possible? You don't do it by forcing them out on to the streets to look for clients, where they will be at much greater risk. That is exactly the practical effect the Nordic Model will have.
Some of de hos make a lot of money working in sex. The really good looking ones make several thousand pounds a month, one of them told me that and said she drove a BMW. I suppose those ones wouldn't like the Nordic model but perhaps they wouldn't have to look to far for work as they are smokin.
DeleteIt's de rubbish ones that would be affected by the Nordic model as it would be harder for them to get business in the street. The Nordic model could stop the ugly ones and reduce the size of the sector. This would be of benefit to the consumer (better quality of product) and to the ugly hos as they could do something they're better at.
Anon at 9.37 pm .... are you 14?
DeleteI think even a 14yr old would be more mature. Mysogeny runs through their text.
DeleteSo does adequate spelling.
Deletetesting
ReplyDelete"before Wings Over Scotland even existed"
ReplyDeleteRather moving to be reminded there was such a time. We should really count years in BW. 2010 would be 1 BW, 2009 would be 2 BW, and so on.
BS, surely?
DeleteBefore Stew?
If Ash Regan is unsuccessful and even one girl is saved from being trafficked into sex work then it’s totally worth it. That girl would be someone’s daughter - imagine if she was yours.
ReplyDeleteAnd autocorrect bizarrely change successful into unsuccessful- apologies.
DeleteA likely story.
DeleteAnd what if your son ended up in prison for two years or whatever the maximum penalty is? What if your daughter ended up being violently attacked because the Nordic model pushed her into a dangerous environment? This will wreck far more lives than it helps.
Delete"And what if your son ended up in prison for two years or whatever the maximum penalty is?"
DeleteI wouldn't want any family member of mine involved in prostitution, on either side. If someone in my family got jailed for burglary, I wouldn't rage about the unfairness of making breaking and entering illegal.
Have we uncovered the world's worst parent?
Deletewith drugs we sympathise with the junkies and demonise the dealers
ReplyDelete- we should do the same with sex; the dealers need to get long sentences, and the poor exploited punters given counselling and medical treatments
you should also report any woman you know with an "only fans" to the tax authorities - the dumb sluts think its free money and not income
DeleteWhat a bizarre comment - being self-employed is not a reportable offence. You would only report it if you have reasonable grounds to think someone is not actually declaring taxable income. "Yeah mate she's on OnlyFans" is not reasonable grounds for suspicion.
Deleteread their social media, they haven't a clue
Deleteanon 1040pm your comments are offensive.
ReplyDeleteThis kind of service helps solve a lot of societal tensions. Fat people, ugly people etc all want to have sex with babes but in normal society they can't as de hos reject them. This feeling of worthlessness is exacerbated by pornography where only the studs shag the pelts and the rest get nothing.
ReplyDeleteThis can lead to feelings of grrrrr and having a sex outlet for men can alleviate these tensions. If they didn't have that they'd have to make do with nothing, porn or having sex with ugly dogs and they don't want that.
Which one are you.....fat or ugly?
ReplyDeletea full comprehesive framework where women are safely housed in regulated premises is one of many components to safeguard their lives & livehoods from dangerous
ReplyDeletefom dangerous perverts & violence as for the frankenstein green leadership being upset thats just another good reason to vote for Ash Regans bill
ReplyDelete4.00 do you mean something like the Nazi Joy Division? This really has turned into a fascist rally site……not anything to do with Scotland or our independence. James you really need to remove this. I don’t know what your reasoning behind allowing this rubbish is! Is there anyone on this FOR INDEPENDENCE!!! SCOTLAND WAKE UP TO TO THE FASCISTS!!!
ReplyDeleteOswald
Delete11.20 really needs to be in prison……a danger to our kids!!!
ReplyDeleteWhen did Ash Regan become a private member James.
ReplyDeleteI thought she was Alba.
That's not what "private member's bill" means.
DeleteLOL
DeleteIt's because she's lonely
Deleteso lonely
DeleteI'd be interested to see a breakdown of these results by gender, if that were available.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that women in general may have a different opinion from men of what constitutes violence against women, and I'd be inclined to give that opinion more weight.
Quite right, because famously men aren't people.
DeleteSo sick of women bleating about themselves as though living in the the world is harder for them than anyone else
DeleteCan you imagine any man coming home to his wife £100 short in his wages because he just had to have his hair and nails done for a night out with the boys
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DeleteThe absolute best argument for the nordic model is reading the comments on here from some of the people opposed to it.
DeleteThat's like saying the best argument for the Union is the existence of Stuart Campbell.
DeleteProstitution has existed in all its forms since the dawn of mankind, create men as criminals for purchasing the offer will reduce the amount of harmless men, leaving only the harmful men who don't care about breaking the law in the first place
ReplyDeleteSo the only customers these women and men sex workers will have left will be the dangerous ones, does Ash Regan and her cronies really believe in what she's suggesting or is she just having a wee attention seeking grandstand for some publicity for her party of one
More people are sick injured and die every day from smoking drinking driving a car crossing the road or going to the shops , we don't hear anyone making it a crime to do any of that stuff, guess why?
Is it because smoking and drinking only harm the person who's doing them, and society wouldn't function without driving cars or going to the shops?
Delete10:02
DeleteSorry, but those views match those of the sort of people who drive their cars on to beaches and sit revving up the engine, drinking and smoking. Utterly reprehensible.
Dickhead, you're as bad as the Daily Express
Delete