I really can't emphasise enough how extreme a step it is to expel someone from a political party - by all accounts, it only happened *ONCE* in the entirety of Alex Salmond's combined total of *TWENTY YEARS* as SNP leader (he was leader from 1990 to 2000 and again from 2004 to 2014), and that was to Bill Walker, who had been violent towards domestic partners for several decades. It's fair to say that the Alba Party, despite having been led by Mr Salmond himself until only a few weeks ago, are not treating the expulsion option with anything like the same reverence or seriousness - they've been chucking people out like confetti, for the most trivial and laughable of reasons. Some of the people directly involved in my own expulsion still follow me on Twitter as if nothing of any great significance has changed, and so I've been treated over the last couple of days to 'adorable' photos of themselves in party hats showing off their pressies. "Surreal" doesn't begin to cover it, and nor does it cover the fact that having checked my bank account just after midnight (this being the first working day after Christmas), I discovered that Alba have just charged me for another month of membership even though they have deprived me of my membership. OK, I do have an appeal underway, but the rulebook is clear - expulsions take effect immediately regardless of any pending appeal. To continue charging me in these circumstances is, not to put too fine a point on it, absolutely bloody outrageous.
It's not a surprise, though, because I haven't been a member in any real sense since I was arbitrarily suspended at the sole whim of Chris McEleny in September (I haven't even been able to login to the party website since then), and yet they've had no compunction in continuing to charge me in the months since. I am very, very sorely tempted to cancel my direct debit, but I don't want to give them any 'technical' excuses for dismissing my appeal without properly considering it, so I'll hold off until the appeal is completed in early January.
No matter what the outcome of the appeal is, I'm not going to be taking any public stance on whether other people should leave the Alba Party - that's a very personal decision for each individual. But what I would say is that if you do make your own decision to leave Alba, for heaven's sake make very, *very* sure that you cancel your direct debit. I know it's a hassle, but if you don't, it wouldn't surprise me if you still find yourself being charged two years after you leave.
You're not banned. You're suspended until further notice. Leave if you want to.
ReplyDeleteGentle hint, my friend - it's best not to make confident statements of fact when you clearly don't have a blithering clue what you're talking about. There's always quite a high risk of being found out, as you have been in this case. I am not "suspended until further notice". I was in fact expelled from the Alba Party on 5th December, and as clearly stated in the blogpost, that expulsion took effect immediately. I am therefore not in a position to "leave if I want to", because it is physically impossible to leave a party I am not a member of.
DeleteHope this helps. Oh, and take your clueless buffoonery elsewhere in future, there's a good chap.
Anon at 1.55 am is presumably an Alba member, possibly an official. No surprise they do not know what they are talking about. Alba are as good as finished. If the SNP can get their Indy act together 2026 could be memorable. Confrontation with Westminster is inevitable. Been saying so for several years. Get to it. Energy should be the first point of confrontation.
DeleteMy prediction for HR 26 %
DeleteSnp 32
LAB 28
Reform 13
Tories 10
Greens 8
Fibs 7
Alba/others 2
What about tonight’s Euromillions numbers?
DeleteJust as an interested observer - technically, if you've appealed against expulsion would that not put your Alba membership into some sort of 'holding' status which would mean that you're neither in nor out until the outcome of your appeal was decided?
DeleteNo. I checked that. The rules clearly state that any penalty the Disciplinary Committee imposes takes effect immediately, unless it's a relatively short suspension (in the latter case it can be deferred pending the appeal).
DeleteFor the first poster to respond at 155am would suggest insomnia in USA or maybe someone whose really doesn’t like you.
DeleteMaybe Shannon Donoghue and Chris Cullen are on holiday in Florida.
DeleteIf you are unambiguously expelled and if they find in your favour would that mean that you would have to re - apply for membership again. or is there a provision for automatic re-admission
DeleteAs far as I know if the appeal is upheld my membership would be automatically restored. I'm not holding my breath, but theoretically that's what would happen.
DeleteI'm quite interested in this point, just as a matter of process. Presumably an individual can theoretically reapply for membership after expulsion. Is there any particular vetting process for this in place or is an individual just barred from membership until further notice?
DeleteFwiw, my own experiences with helping others with company disciplinary and grievance procedures has taught me that most of management are wilfully ignorant of them. Even HR are often pretty flakey about clearly specified and documented processes which are meant to be wholly prescriptive but are, in reality, left open to interpretation.
I once had a senior manager say 'Ive decided to deal with this in my own way', completely disregarding the very clearly stated investigative process. HR simply backed them up and even the Union rep suggested it would be difficult to do much about it. The inference being that management remit is above mere internal company policy for the greater good of the organisation.
The rules state that anyone who has been expelled or has been deemed to have "publicly resigned from the party" has to apply to the NEC for permission if they wish to rejoin the party. In practice, however, some people who have resigned tried to apply to the NEC to rejoin, but Chris McEleny refused to allow them to even apply. Alba doesn't so much have a constitution as a Christopher.
DeleteJames, I'm sorry to hear this but, like you, not surprised.
ReplyDeleteIn my mind this is no different to a plumber asking for a deposit and then refusing to do the job. But, If the membership fee is loosely defined or included in the accounts under party donations they probably feel they can get away with it. I don't know, apologies for speculating without the full facts but I feel pretty aggrieved on your behalf!
How you proceed is, of course, entirely up to you. What I would say though is don't let this whole episode be your Dugdale moment. I think it's fair to say Campbell's saga had a lot more at stake financially but you can't put a price on your mental health. Those of us who've followed Wings for many years can see the difference pre and post Dugdale.There's been a change of focus, and it's not been healthy or constructive.
All the best, James. Look after yourself.
The Alba Party leaders remind me of a little gang of 10 year olds with their own den constructed in a rubbish dump where they ruled over their minions with a rule of iron while taking their pocket money and wating their sweeties.
DeleteAs far as any comparison between this and Campbell's obsession with Dugdale is concerned, there are obviously numerous differences - a) Campbell needlessly instigated proceedings against Dugdale, whereas it was Mr McEleny and co who maliciously came after me, b) Campbell wasted (at least) tens of thousands of pounds of other people's money on the legal action, whereas I haven't spent a penny, c) Campbell was subject to a fair legal process whereas the process I have been subjected to has been manifestly unfair, d) Campbell had his day in court (multiple days, actually) whereas I had twelve minutes, and e) Campbell hubristically assumed he couldn't lose, whereas I knew from the outset the dice were loaded and I couldn't win.
DeleteAs for whether this will change me, though, and whether the 'before' and 'after' difference will be apparent, yes it will. It already has changed me. I have been betrayed and trampled all over by people pursuing their own naked political self-interest, and that is bound to leave a mark. Alex Salmond was for many years the closest thing I had to a political hero, but I'm 90% sure he must have signed off on my expulsion before his death, and as with the others, the motivation will have been expediency. That has disoriented me, to put it mildly, but I think ultimately it will help me to see the political situation in Scotland in a clearer perspective than I previously did. In other words, I expect the impact of this episode on me to be constructive, rather than the destructive impact the Dugdale episode had on Campbell.
A good summary. The charges do seem trumped up, what's the real reason for wanting you out?
DeleteI mean is it just because you wanted more voting structures within the party? Is that it? Seems such a weak excuse.
"I mean is it just because you wanted more voting structures within the party?"
DeleteUltimately that's what it goes back to, yes. Which is odd, because there was a built-in anti-reform majority on the Constitution Review Group, so I was being outvoted anyway. They couldn't even cope with the existence of one or two dissenting voices.
If that's it, what a joke.
DeleteYou're better off out. If it can't take that level of discussion without lashing out, it's not going to be a force of any note.
It's obvious from the behaviour of the party in James's case and several others' that nothing and nobody was to be allowed to to even *suggest* a curb in McEleny's power. Even the suggestion of a system of checks and balances guaranteed expulsion by fair means or foul.
DeleteBut who ran McEleny and benefited from his hegemony?
DE FACTO NOW
ReplyDeleteAgree. With yes above 60% in some polls it’s obvious we have the numbers.
DeleteSwinney needs to show guts and go for it.
It’s becoming increasingly clear indy support is well above 50% now.
DeleteSurely this is the time to go for a de facto.
Agree totally.
Delete'Betrayal Path' is an anagram of 'The Alba Party'.
ReplyDeleteHeal, Bath Party!
Deletean extra 'h'
DeleteI would expect nothing less from the bunch of Jockhaggist extremists
ReplyDeleteThere should.have been an amnesty when Alex died.
ReplyDeleteIll served prolonging this with no proper reason.
Dunno. if they expell you they should have the grace to not take money from you.
ReplyDeleteI think this is fair criticism and demonstrates the tinpot nature of the party.
You do seem to work extraordinarily hard to exclude Alex Salmond's influence and personnel selections from the party he formed and made the rules for, is that what you call blind loyalty or something you prefer not to admit in case you lose most of your readers?
ReplyDeleteDon't think he does this at all.
DeleteStrange post.
It might be that December's payment is for November, I'm wondering.
ReplyDeleteI have that trying to cancel the gym! Make you pay an extra month.
Or it could be they can't delete as you're under appeal so it would colour the objectivity of the process. *laughs off seat in irony, I know.
He's in the midst of an unfair appeal process at this very moment.
ReplyDeleteNot like he's bringing up past squabbles.
Completely entitled to speak to current events, as anyone would.
The above was a reply to a comment from "Willie", which I've deleted. I'd be grateful if Willie would stop doing this, because repeatedly telling someone in the middle of an appeals process to "give it up" and "move on" is not only inappropriate - it's downright weird.
DeleteThey're still sending me membership emails even though I resigned and cancelled by DD months ago
ReplyDeleteI certainly wouldn’t be paying membership fees if I was expelled from the party. First thing I’d have done was cancel the direct debit!
ReplyDeleteNice try at trolling (do I detect a slight hint of KC in the writing style?), but that point was directly addressed above. I can't cancel the direct debit until the appeal is concluded, because I don't want to give them any 'technical' excuse for refusing to consider my appeal properly.
DeleteThat explains why they've dipped your bank account. It looks to me as if they are technically still regarding you as 'in' pending the outcome of your appeal.
DeleteOK. So what we have it seems is (from a HoC Briefing Paper):
ReplyDelete"6. Membership fees
Political parties are private organisations that can charge membership fees. These fees are not subject to any rules."
So it may well come under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 though Scotland can be different as some things may not apply to Scotland; and in general consumer rights including subscriptions is a bit of a mess still, even after all these years, though the UK Governments pretend to be taking action to sort it out next millennium.
You would of course expect a political party of any description to have policies on this - if empowered in any way by being in government, coalition or opposition, they should be representing their constituents. Clearly in your case Alba fail miserably on this and would therefore not be suitable for election where representation of the public would be required.
In general to borrow a phrase as I can't be bothered trying to find better any longer,
"a service must conform to any information the trader provides about it, either in writing or verbally".
If you're not getting the service, you shouldn't be charged for it - this would be unfair trading.
Which I think personally is a massive blot on the reputation of any political party. If they can't even treat members fairly, how on earth can they be expected to represent constituents? Like, ever?
Complete nonsense. If you don’t really have something to say just don’t post.
DeleteHi Chris!
DeleteVichy France changed the national motto from "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" to "Work, Family, Fatherland". Bearing in mind Alba's prevailing internal culture, a motto like "Obedience, Discipline, Submission" might be just the ticket. How inspiring for prospective new members!
ReplyDelete"Unquestioning" or "Mindless" could fit in there, but the SNP are the same. We will tell you what to think DON'T ARGUE WITH US.
DeleteI attended Alba meetings with James - and I can confirm that he smells of chip fat. We decided that he was sending out the wrong message.
DeleteYi2 - you left the snp. Your choice. Unless you were thrown out which would prove your point.
ReplyDeleteThanks for proving my point. You forget to say "Baaaaaaa".
DeleteYou didn’t forget though, did you? Silly billy.
DeleteNo I didn't forget. I did try to do some thinking for the SNP but all they said was "Baaaaaa". The SNP lost 65,000 people who didn't.
DeleteLoving your work. You tried to do some thinking for the SNP. :) And your best shot is baaaaa. Yep sounds about right. Well done.
DeleteIf you are actually SNP which I doubt, you're a very poor and cowardly Anon advert for the SNP and a very badly visible symptom of precisely what's wrong with the SNP - and why they lost 65,000 members and 500,000 voters this year.
DeleteArrogance and a sense of entitlement while doing nothing for Independence.
Your response is the “anon” nonsense that was laughed off this btl months ago? Even IFS gave up on that silliness. Your ad hominem attack tells me that you have no contribution to make, beyond baaaaa and SNP baaaaad. Try to expand your vocabulary. You are yet another of the conditional Indy supporters. Indy on your terms or not at all. Off you go and join Alba. You will really fit in. We’ve got our Independence to pursue.
DeleteYIRef isn't the type to be a member of anything, but he'll gladly criticize everything
DeleteNow you recognize the type
There is a shorter description that sums him up but I’m too polite to use it.
Delete"Your ad hominem attack"
DeleteThe irony of an ad hominem accusation by a cowardly, ineffective and non-contributory Anon making a never-ending series of ad hominem attacks without anything else to offer is simply delicious. Thanks for the laugh Anon and your alter ego "Anon". :-)
Oh dear that clearly hit home. Your mask slipped dafty. You could be looking in a mirror and reading your post to yourself. And unbelievably you are still prattling on about anon. When do we see your name and address? You are as anon as anyone else posting here. What differentiates you from others is your stupidity. It’s a novel approach I’ll give you that. Well done and off you toddle back to your room. You are grounded till Monday.
DeleteAnon at 12:07 PM
Delete"hit"
Your language gives you away, you really are a masochist aren't you? You see everything in terms of your obsession.
But I'm sorry, you're on your own with that S&M stuff, perhaps you should go back to some blog where it's more the norm? And take your alter ego cowardly, repetitive, boring, ineffective and false flag Anon stalkers with you!
Off you "toddle", sonny
Ha ha , you are now copying my “patter”. Sad angry wee man. I told you, you are grounded. Off to your room. Silly wee billy.
DeleteMy beloved friends, I do hope you all had a wonderful Christmas.
ReplyDeleteNot bad, Zulfs.
DeleteSNP, will survive.
ReplyDeleteWhen I find myself in times of trouble, Honest John comes to me, speaking words of wisdom, SNP.
DeleteSNP SNP SNP SNP
DeleteWhisper words of wisdom, SNP
From the river to the sea, SNP SNP SNP.
DeleteJames, leave them to it.
ReplyDeleteI get your point of principle but I am not sure they will be around much longer for your process to complete.
It's like the thick of it with the nutters.
I think it's worth a final try. Either they suddenly see sense having read the articles and comments, or they dwindle into absolute nothingness.
DeleteAs far as it goes I was neutral to Alba, they were supposedly another pro-indy party, but after this I'd never even think of voting for them.
Alba Party is finished. Not sure what the future holds but that bunch unlikely to merit even a footnote. James, by highlighting how awful they are you do Scotland a great service. We can now safely forget about the former distraction known as the Alba Party. How best to consign the Scottish Greens to the dustbin of history too? With friends like them, who needs enemies? If there was a sensible, sizeable, fellow YES party alongside the SNP that would be fine, fact is there isn't and never has been. No sign of that changing any time soon. Vote SNP and stay focused, let's get the outright SNP majority needed so we can forget about the Greens too.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand why James Kelly wants to be a member of Stuart Campbell's party
ReplyDeleteThere's a school of thought which which suggests Bathist influence aided James's expulsion.
DeleteWell, there's certainly a "school of Bathist opinion" which had a little party about my expulsion, and that school is called Andy Ellis. He said something like "there are those of us who are glad James has gone because he was a divisive element", which is deserving of a trophy as the least self-aware comment in the history of human civilisation.
DeleteIt's like he never left Kirriemuir
DeleteDe facto NOW.
ReplyDeleteI agree, we can’t wait til the next election. Time for John Swinney to stand up and show guts.
DeleteIf, and it is "IF", Swinney does have a plan, there's still plenty of time for it. I think the 500,000 lost voters could switch back to voting for the SNP practically overnight given the right motivation. Which means we might not even see anything open till early 2026.
DeleteMeanwhile perhaps the SNP could run some "ambassador" programs for the more vocal but errant members of its Praetorian Guard ...
I think Salmond was not in his right mind in the last year or so of his life.
ReplyDeleteMaybe his health was the problem.
He very angry and quite out of control. People around him were using him to settle their scores and for status and money (Tas, Chris, Corri)
He no doubt signed off on James’s expulsion but the reason is unclear other than irrational lashing out at anyone that offends the inner clique
Is it possible James’s poor relationship with Shannon and Chris Cullen got him added to the list of people to be got rid off ?
Maybe. So what? Alba Party is irrelevant. Salmond had become irrelevant years before his death, too, proving the aphorism that all political careers end in failure.
DeleteThe question is what the YES movement does next. On that discussion, the Alba Party will not figure at all prominently.
See also NS
DeleteIt was a sad end for Salmond.
DeleteThe Hope over Fear event at George Square with very little audience.
And then the iMax event which must have cost a fortune to put on and even though it was promoted as ‘sold out’ most of the audience had free tickets
He looked unhappy and awful. Obviously very ill.
Poor man
I'm not convinced Salmond would have known about it. He may well have totally left the day to day running of the party to others, and been led around a bit by the 3 stooges.
DeleteI always thought the SNP was a lot "ivory tower", as others described it, even during the Indy Ref, and Alba may well have been the same for him.
I think his agreement or otherwise with the suspension would have to be a case of "innocent unless proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt". I think his trust was sadly, misplaced.
That’s a kind intervention.
DeleteBut again, so what? It’s a historical debate since he’s passed.
Time to look forward and move on. Just like James will, almost certainly, have to do too, and soon.
I wonder whether SGP will leave Alba Party matters as unreported as they deserve to be, assuming the site owner’s appeal fails?
There are more important issues to cover beyond that shrinking tent.
Yesindyref2: There's a bit more to it than that, though. Although Chris McEleny has the power to unilaterally suspend members and refer them to the Disciplinary Committee, and although he eventually did that in my case, he initially did something a bit different. He (or someone) came up with the wheeze of removing me from my elected position on the Constitution Review Group but without suspending my party membership. But because there's nothing in the constitution that would actually permit that to be done, he took it to the NEC for approval to try to give it the veneer of legitimacy. Nothing ever got through the NEC without Alex Salmond's agreement, so Mr Salmond must have signed off on that part of the process. In practice, however, I'm 90% sure he must have signed off on everything else too. Remember his niece Christina Hendry is a member of the Disciplinary Comnittee, as is Robert Reid's mother. Josh Robertson is the convener of the committee, and he's in no doubt what he's there to do. The committee in its current composition is very, very tightly controlled by the leadership.
DeleteYes, but did he really pay any attention even if he was there in body? I wonder if to all intents and purposes, that committee WAS the leadership - and I do wonder if the SNP has a similar problem. Where the leaders often don't know what's really going on, but believe the word of those they trust. That's pretty common in business as well. The wrong people are trusted.
DeleteWhen I was on the NEC in 2021-22, my impression was always that Alex Salmond, Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh, Chris McEleny and possibly one or two others had decided everything between themselves before the meetings and the NEC was just there as a rubberstamp. There was literally just one occasion when I insisted on putting something to a formal vote, and Tasmina genuinely looked startled - she expected all the pre-decisions to go through on the nod.
DeleteThe sad truth is that Alba was set up to accommodate Alec Salmond's giant ego and without that it loses its point. One might say that Nicola Sturgeon does not have to go down that route since she feels she has some purchase in the SNP
DeleteThey probably did, but he may not have paid much attention when it happened. I'm just suggesting this as an outsider - you'd have a far better viewpoint of course.
DeleteAnon at 5:08 PM
Curtice has a great sense of humour, though a trifle [1] malicious, hence his suggestion Sturgeon could lead YES !
Technically Salmond joined Alba a few weeks after it was formed by someone else. His "giant ego" made his minority Government a great success, gave us a majority SNP Government, an Indy Ref, the only one so far, and made Independence mainstream in Scotland, and it will never go away now. Would that we had more "giant ego"s.
[1] seasonal reference
And promptly took it over. He was successful in the SNP days and perhaps his ego helped but all he was doing with Alba was turning it into a vehicle for massaging it
DeleteWith just a few hours left of this year maybe it's time to come off the wall a little - to myself as much as anything.
ReplyDeleteOn the last day of his life, Alex Salmond - Sleepy Cuddles - was giving a speech in North Macedonia, one of the countries that became Independent in the last half century, but whose problems are still not over due to a challenge over its very name being owned by another country. Ex of Yugosalvia where the funeral of Tito was attended by virtually every head of state on the planet due to its careful positioning between the USSR and the West.
We were on a very rare holiday at the time, on Rhodes, another place with a disputed but very colourful history, much nearer to him than he was to Scotland. With his knowledge of history I daresay he knew plenty about the significance of Rhodes.
Yet, as Salmond said in that speech, in Scotland we had a referendum with no violence, to decide our own destiny at the time. So Salmond was still pursuing Independence on behalf of Scotland.
I'm afraid you have to contrast that with Sturgeon who talked about the Care issue, went on about books, and saw the greatest achievement of the Scottish Parliament as gay marriage, very worthwhile but happening in a lot of places, and originated before her time with mostly cross party support. That's what she used her status and media access as an ex-FM for. Not to further Independence.
Or Yousaf who used his access for Palestine and similar - yes again, another worthwhile cause. But Independence - no.
Anyways, that's me on my way with "out with the old".
The Greeks objected to Macedonia being called Macedonia because part of Greece is known by the same name. For some reason the Greeks' complaints were listened to. Part of Belgium is called Luxembourg and part of England is called Holland. I haven't heard of the Belgians moaning about the name of Luxembourg or the English whining about the Dutch orovinces with the same name.
DeleteYou shouldn’t have bothered. And put down the bottle. “A few hours”? A few days you mean? Feel free to get back onto your wall and give us peace. You’re the Captain Mainwaring of SGP. Laughed at for the fool you are.
DeleteYi2- honestly, you shouldn’t have bothered us with your weirdo thoughts.
ReplyDeleteYou're a useful fool even if you are just a spineless Anon tiddler most people throw back; stickleback around! I might have a use for you sometime when I'm bored. But not at the moment, thanks all the same.
DeleteAt the mirror again? Silly billy.
DeleteIt’s fine for Y2 to reminisce if that’s meaningful for them.
ReplyDeleteAll this is historical, I can’t be the only one not to care either which way regarding AS and the past. Can’t we just look forward?
I agree. A S was a figure of huge political importance and a man to be reckoned with and with such greatness allowances are made for behaviour. The idiots and nonentities left in Alba do not have that luxury. Let’s leave him be and look forwards, not backwards like the usual suspects on here.
Delete