Thursday, September 19, 2024

Keith Brown's statement is not a long-overdue sign of realism - it's a sign of abject surrender to Westminster

Well, what a bind we're in as a movement.  Yesterday's Opinium poll was better than anyone could really have dreamed of at this stage and offered huge grounds for optimism that the SNP might well win a fifth consecutive term in government - which, if it happens, is going to be an almighty jolt to a political and journalistic establishment that had convinced itself that the tide has gone out decisively on the SNP and that a Sarwar-led government at Holyrood is a racing certainty.  And make no mistake, an SNP win would be a huge boost for independence, if only in the sense that if it didn't happen, the setback for independence would be enormous.  But there just doesn't seem to be any direct way forward from an SNP win to independence, because the SNP leadership are hoisting the flag of surrender, and they're doing it in plain sight.

A few people welcomed the depute leader Keith Brown's admission that Westminster will never grant another Section 30 order, as if it was a long-overdue sign of some realism creeping in.  But it's actually the total opposite, because he went on to clarify that independence can never be won without a referendum.  By "not playing by Westminster's rules", what Brown really appears to mean is that we have to totally surrender to Westminster's rigged rules, ie. we have to accept that something as prosaic as mere electoral mandates for a referendum or for independence are no longer sufficient and that we'll need ridiculously overwhelming levels of public support that simply aren't attainable in the real world.

In truth, if we really did stop playing by Westminster's rules, it would mean saying "sorry, but we don't need an unattainable supermajority, actually, in a democracy we just need a simple majority, and we're going to seek an outright mandate for independence via a scheduled election, which is something that you have no power to stop us doing".  That is so obviously the best and only way forward that it's surely inevitable that the SNP will have to embrace it sooner or later, but at the moment it looks very much like "later".   It's as if we're all left twiddling our thumbs until it happens.  Goodness only knows how many more years and leadership changes it will take for the penny to finally drop.

In the meantime, we do have a party in Alba that "gets it" and that will be offering voters a chance to vote for independence outright on the Holyrood list.  But the problem is that there seems to be quite a low ceiling on potential support for any radical independence party, and Alba will need to max that support out if they are to win any list seats at all and thus be in a position to do anything to move us forward.  In order to get that maximum support they'll need to be as broad a church as possible, they'll need to be welcoming, tolerant and inclusive.  They'll need to be a 'shining village on a hill' that everyone looks up to longingly and can't wait to visit.  

I don't think it should be controversial to point out that Alba are actually doing the opposite of that.  They're becoming an ever more narrow sect that lives inside a forbidding fortress.  Freedom of speech and dissenting views are being cracked down on, both by direct means and by fostering a climate of fear in which people feel they have to self-censor.  No attempts are being made to build bridges with the significant number of people who have already felt they had no choice but to leave the party, including Eva Comrie, who was probably the most popular figure in Alba other than Alex Salmond himself.  Other people who wanted to stay in Alba have been expelled, and that will presumably continue to happen.  (Indeed if Yvonne Ridley's boast has any truth to it, I could be next in line, although I'm no closer to finding out, because - as I predicted last week - Alba are deliberately "throwing a deefie" and totally ignoring my emails, even though I copied them to the General Secretary, the Deputy General Secretary, the party chair and the party leader.)  

On their current trajectory, Alba are likely to get between 1% and 3% of the list vote and to win no seats at all, which will simply be of no use to anyone.

If there was fundamental change in either the SNP or Alba, we might start to get somewhere, but how is that going to happen?  I've made no secret of the fact that I would welcome Kate Forbes as SNP leader, not least because I think she's the most electable person they've got, but I can't see any evidence at all that she would abandon the do nothing approach on independence.

And are there any signs of life outside the SNP and Alba?  Not that I can see.  The ISP have apparently gone down a very peculiar path by adopting abstentionism for Holyrood as well for Westminster, which rules them out of serious consideration as a vehicle for independence.  I was tickled to discover that Peter A Bell has set up his own political party, although perhaps I shouldn't be too dismissive, because if Alba do expel me, I could be needing a bolthole before too long.  (I know, I know, he'd never let me in!)  I suppose as a last resort some people might consider setting up yet another new party, but by God, that would be a long and hard road and might be wholly counter-productive.  It would be much better to get the existing parties into some kind of shape, but how to even begin achieving that is a massive conundrum.

45 comments:

  1. I'm curious at what point did the realisation finally dawn upon Keith Brown that Westminster will never grant another Section 30 Order approved referendum? He and others in the SNP have consistently and frequently said for years that position would be unsustainable and that Westminster would "succumb to the democratic pressure".

    Were they either incredibly naive or feeding us a lie?

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    1. Delmax says we don't really appreciate certain realities. I do. No I don't because I AM Delmax. Golly, I wonder what I'm doing. Tee-hee!

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  2. The criticisms of the SNP in this post need to be considered in the context of the strategic position that John Swinney laid out in his Glasgow University speech when he accepted the leadership of the party.

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    1. What is the strategic position at this point beyond just "increase support" and then "things will become clear"? Seems to be incredibly vague and require a considerable amount of blind faith.

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    2. Anon@4:59,
      Clearly increasing support for independence has to be the priority and first step.
      Surely that’s obvious.

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    3. And if Ipsos polls are right and there's already a Yes majority? Would you still say it's obvious that a majority isn't enough? If so, are you even a democrat?

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    4. If "increasing support" is the first step, what's step 2?

      Also James rightly points out there are polls putting Yes ahead. When do we move onto the next step? Just saying "we need to increase support" is an ambition not a strategy.

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    5. Anon at 5.03 pm - so obvious it wisnae even in the SNP 11 point plan for independence. Not even point 11. So anon you are wrong. Getting a referendum underway will increase support but the SNP under Swinney have now come clean. Independence is for another day under Swinney. Some far of day in a distant future when we are all dead. Swinney is a gradualist = never = Unionist.

      Have a look at the SNP 11 point plan it will remind you of the lies and deceit spun by Sturgeon's gang. Here is point 8 for you to marvel at:-
      " 8. If the SNP takes office the Scottish government will again request a section 30 order from the UK government believing and publicly contending that in such circumstances there could be no moral or democratic justification fir denying that request. If the UK government were to adopt such a position its position would be unsustainable both at home and abroad."

      Anyone think the UK gov's position is unsustainable - Keith Brown disnae think so NOW. The SNP have been lying to independence supporters for many years now since Sturgeon took over. You were warned it was mince. The only thing unsustainable was the SNP's position.

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  3. Brown told the audience: “People have got to accept they’re [Westminster] not going to give us one. Stop playing by their rules and thinking we’ve got to go pleading to them. I think we have to take it into our own hands.”

    That doesn't mean give up!

    And I agree with him - it will need a referendum. Even if UDI has to happen first, and a referendum to confirm it's the Will of the People.

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    1. Oh yes, I'm sure Keith Brown and John Swinney are totally open to the UDI route.

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    2. Ah well, the SNP leadership can't openly use the word "UDI", they have to allude to it. Or something like that. Perhaps they secretly plan to have 2026 as a de facto referendum, do a UDI and announce a confirmatory Referendum and surprise us all!

      For some odd reason I'm reminded of this all the same:

      "I am a passenger and I ride and I ride
      I ride through the city's backsides
      I see the stars come out of the sky
      Yeah, the bright and hollow sky
      You know it looks so good tonight
      "

      Mmmm

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    3. Actually I don't think they have a clue, about anything actually.

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    4. yeh Scottish cringe WT? You support liz truss and co?

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    5. Eh are you alright? It was Sturgeon that agreed that this is not the time. If you recall. Following your logic you're the Truss fan

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    6. Yesindyref2 - I told you a long time ago the SNP's secret plan was not to have Indyref2.

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  4. I'm for getting on with "step one".

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    1. *Chaps door*

      "Hello there, you should support independence"

      How will it happen?

      "STOP FOCUSING ON PROCESS YOU YOON"

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  5. We're in a bind for a while.

    It's simply the case a good 10-20% of potential SNP supporters need them out of power for a while before they'll vote for them again. A bit like Labour. As much to do with human traits than any particular party struggles.

    And then there is the non SNP indy support, the Limmy/Cat Boyd/Frankie Boyle/Wings types who are Yes but won't vote SNP.. so maybe another 5-10% of any future Yes vote is always out of reach until a campaign is started.

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    1. The thing is though the SNP in theory could change the narrative. If for example they had backed or taken over Ash Regan's Bill that would have completely changed the narrative surrounding the 2026 Election. They could have made it about independence and as an added bonus given them a higher likelihood of retaining power.

      Let's be honest at this point the number of people who will vote SNP because they genuinely believe they've been running an effective component Government probably isn't that many, to counter that the only viable option is to focus on their USP: Independence. Not doing that will be a dire mistake.

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    2. Another!! the best route for independence is to let the brit parties in. Of course that would help the students and those needing help with prescriptions, brexit ... That would go well. Certainly help labour.

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  6. The SNP have never been able to answer in a positive way questions on the really important issues regarding independence. They’ve had years to do so, but still we wait. All these glossy independence papers, and not a single one addressing the likes of currency, pensions, border with England, loss of the millions received every year from Westminster through the Barnett Formula, etc, etc. I wonder why these issues haven’t been addressed!!
    Until these issues are addressed in a positive way there’ll never be a majority in favour of independence. It will only be the ones who want independence at all costs (mainly because of their dislike for the English) and to hell with the economic consequences, and the easily brainwashed of course.

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    1. howsabout on day one, getting the full tax take in the scottish treasury? empire is always a looting operation - do you think the anglo is engaged in philanthropy?

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    2. KC at 5.53pm - why does Norway have a trillion pound wealth fund built up and is one of the wealthiest and happiest nations on earth. What's the current Britnat thinking on that fact?

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    3. They are Scandinavian non industrial and lack the same post industrial working class.

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    4. Norway does not have a post industrial working class.

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    5. Kind of a chicken and the egg situation though.

      The best time to have an outlined detailed plan is in the lead-up and during a campaign. The time when you're trying to change minds and they're open to listen.

      Any other time there will be immense criticisms on time and resources being spent on something that isn't an active issue. "Why are you wasting time on a plan for independence that's not going to happen rather than sorting out the NHS!?" etc.

      It's why process matters, the electorate will only care when it's an active issue and people will only campaign when there's something to unite behind/work towards (such as a vote date).

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    6. IFS,
      I did reply to your post but James has deleted it. He’s clearly like yourself and other Nats, and dosen’t like reading the truth.

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  7. Agree and take back the territorial waters that labour gave away in secrecy. That's always been a curious one for me. If labour thought we were in a United Kingdom why would they have to sign over territory to another country if we were united in the first instance Traitorous behaviour. Was it the price for devolution? Lord !!McConnell and ermine co are the pits

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  8. James, I fear you’ve found the limits of what can be achieved within Alba, and that Alba has found the limits of its vote.

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    1. I don’t say this as any kind of SNP loyalist, by the way. I abstained in July, scunnered with them both.

      We Yessers are very neatly snookered right now. Until the SNP finds its passion for independence again, there is no effective alternative. Depressing but evidently true.

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  9. The problem for Alba is Alex Salmond. The voters rightly or wrongly have never got over the court cases and the behaviour he admitted.
    Alba needs to rebrand. A very public falling out with Salmond and new leadership. Probably Ash Regan.
    Then maybe other politicians would join because I imagine Joanna Cherry, Angus McNeil et al don’t fancy joining the Alex and Tas show.

    Also the SNP won’t work with Salmond because they know what he is like. They know he’s been venting his rage on them and fear his revenge.They do not trust him,
    They might well work with Ash Regan

    So ditch Salmond that’s the best advice to
    Alba

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    1. The problem with Alex Salmond isn't so much his popularity with the wider public (or lack thereof). Farage is able to very nimbly cater to a section of the public and get results, despite his dire personal ratings.

      The problem with Salmond is that for the past three years, he has treated Alba as a personal exercise in self-flattery, rather than an insurgent political party.

      The hard work of activists like Denise Findlay has been utterly disregarded. Golden opportunities have been cast aside. Because he has never had to lead a tiny, insurgent party from inception to swift electoral success, he has no conception of the time and dedication that has to go into it.

      I very much get the impression that he fancied himself in the Farage or the Galloway mould in taking over Alba. He's covetous of the way in which those politicians are able, so it seems, to have electoral successes fall into their lap.

      Of course, that's not the case at all. Years of hard-work, of tenacity, of putting themselves out their to face electoral defeat after electoral defeat is what has built the Farage and Galloway brands.

      Farage would never have baulked at the Rutherglen by-election. Salmond did, because he and his sycophantic courtiers in the leadership could not bear the idea that he might only place a decent second, or even third.

      Farage stood for parliament EIGHT TIMES before he was successful. Salmond it seems would rather bask in a pool of flattery from the faithful courtiers than engage with the hard and sometimes dispiriting work of getting a minor party off the ground.

      I've said it before. Alba desperately needs Joanna Cherry as leader. She's the only person who has the presence and the tenacity to put in the hard work that needs done.

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    2. Though Salmond does have that experience?

      Before he became leader of the SNP the Party had only experienced very limited success. Unlike his successors he wasn't gifted an election winning machine, he put in a lot of work to modernise the SNP’s organisation, improving its campaigning strategies and professionalising its approach to elections.

      He was also an effective communicator, often able to outmanoeuvre opponents in debates and the media. His ability to present the SNP as a credible alternative to Labour contributed significantly to the party’s resurgence.

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    3. One version of events is that Alba only sat out Rutherglen because of McEleny's ill-fated attempts to find "Andy Swan".

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    4. Alba were clear on why they didn't stand in Rutherglen. It was to give SNP a last chance to show whether they could win without Alba standing. The SNP showed they couldn't which le led to Alba intervention at the GE. Alec was very clear about this approach at the time.

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    5. Yes, that was the official line. We're more interested in the real reason.

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    6. Alba didn’t stand in Rutherglen because Alex and Tasmina spent their time during July and August on their Ayes Have It Show.
      Then it was too late the Rutherglen campaign had to start end of July when they had the result of the recall petition.
      But Alex and Tasmina had their show so they choose to do that

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  10. That is a folk tale.
    The SNP had 11 MPs 1974-79 then they made the mistake of voting ‘No Confidence’ in the Labour Government. This set the SNP back for a decade.
    It was hard work through the 80s and 90s of local SNP branches winning council elections and eventually control of councils that set the SNP up for success in the Scottish Parliament

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    1. The SNP was a divided mess in the 1990s, with factions disagreeing over the best path to independence. One group wanted immediate action, while the other viewed devolution as a stepping stone toward the ultimate goal. This divide defined Salmond’s first stint as leader and continued during John Swinney’s first stint as well, preventing the party from presenting a united front.

      It wasn’t until Salmond’s return in 2004 that the party found cohesion. He reformed the SNP by professionalising its campaign strategies, modernising its media approach, and broadening its focus beyond independence to appeal to more voters. This pragmatic shift helped the SNP win power in 2007, and by proving they could govern effectively, the SNP strengthened the case for independence.

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    2. So why can’t Salmond repeat the success with Alba. Are you sure it was Salmond that made all these imprints and not someone that worked for him as he doesn’t seem to be much good at tactics or strategy any more

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  11. Gaslighting SNP Style

    John REDACTOR MAN Swinney says this on the 10 year anniversary of indyref1 :- " I think we are closer to achieving that (independence) than we were in 2014."

    So the SNP after voting against a motion on actually doing something to achieve independence they vote for a motion to say they believe in independence. Action not words is required. You may say you believe in independence I say I don't believe you.

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  12. Ifs— boy you fare generate your own gas to power Baurheid

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  13. we should have a series of annual referendums, the question being :

    should Scotland remain in the union?

    - with these important questions we should insist on a super majority of 66% of the people registered to vote.

    If the vote fails, we revert to original status. Think of it as like an annual marriage.

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