Probably like a lot of you, I tend to subconsciously use my family and friends as barometers of what is going on in the heads of the electorate at large. With that in mind, I was rather alarmed that someone asked me just after the election was called whether she was allowed to vote SNP in a UK general election - not whether it was a good idea, but whether it was even possible, because clearly the media or the Labour party or someone had been feeding her the idea that Westminster elections are straight choices between Tory and Labour. And this is not somebody who was voting in a general election for the first time - in fact I'm fairly sure she's voted for the SNP in multiple general elections in the past, and yet she'd still half-forgotten that the SNP are an option on the ballot paper. So that's a useful reminder that some of the misleading propaganda out there is so effective that it's worth making sure that people you know are aware of the basics.
When I spoke to her again about ten days ago, she seemed to be much more aware of the range of options at the election, but had developed a nagging worry that she might need to vote Labour if she wants to get the Tory government out, again presumably because that was what she had been told by the media or by Labour themselves. No, I explained, we live in the Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch constituency, which is a straightforward SNP-Labour battleground where the Tories don't even come into it. But, she persisted, isn't Labour the better choice for getting rid of the Tories? I shrugged and reiterated that the Tories aren't going to win Cumbernauld and Kirkintilloch! She started to say "but" again, but then seemed to accept the inescapability of the logic. I could tell, though, that she still had the nagging thought that there must be more to it than that, and that somehow electing a Labour MP must "get rid of the Tories" in a way that electing an SNP MP does not.
But of course it doesn't. That's simply not the way the system works, as any constitutional expert will tell you. In the UK the parliament is elected and the government is appointed - the King appoints the Prime Minister and then the Prime Minister appoints other ministers. But the King has to act in accordance with constitutional convention, which states that he can only appoint a Prime Minister who commands the confidence of the House of Commons. Not the leader of the largest single party, so there's no horse race between Labour and the Tories to win the greatest number of seats. If the majority of MPs don't want a Tory government, the King can't appoint one, and it really is as simple as that. Both Labour and the SNP are opposed to a Tory government, so electing a Labour MP or an SNP MP has exactly the same effect - you're voting against a Tory government.
That means, by extension, that it's only possible to vote tactically against the Tories in seats where the Tories are actually in contention - and in the minority of Scottish seats where that's the case, it just so happens that the SNP are the Tories' main opposition, and the SNP would thus be the tactical anti-Tory choice. But everywhere else in Scotland, it's literally impossible to vote tactically against the Tories, because they're not going to win anyway. All you can do is decide whether you'd rather be represented in parliament by an SNP or Labour (or in some cases Liberal Democrat) MP.
A real world example may help to illustrate the point. This is the result of the 1923 election in terms of seats -
Thanks for this. I wonder who pays them? Is it through various middlemen and women to hide the truth?
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter which name of an organisation pays these people, it's all one British nationalist group
DeleteWhen it comes to Scotland all British parties are united in making Scotland disunited
Vote SNP and unite Scotland against the British/English nationalists
based on previous issues during 2014. The involvement of Northern Ireland groups etc were issues. I think it is important. Shine a light on them. Cockroaches don't like it.
DeleteI'm an Alba Party member and one of those who often criticises the SNP on here for their lack of progress on independence. But if people want to vote for them that's their choice.
ReplyDeleteWhat Best for Britain are doing is despicable, no one should be manipulated into believing a Party who could win in a constituency isn't a valid option. Parties should be able to win or lose on their own merits... whereas this is essentially cheating.
Well said James.
ReplyDeleteShe could have been listening to some of the comments posted on here.
ReplyDeleteWho is "she"?
DeleteTry reading the article before commenting you muppet. It’s glaringly obvious.
Delete"James' relative" would have been a civil answer to a perfectly civil question. Pity your default position is to be abusive.
DeleteSame tone as your original attempt at a riposte. But you know that. Mock outrage doesn’t really cut it here. Must try harder. You could not possibly have been in any doubt who she was if you read James post. Now you have read it, surprise surprise, you know who she is. Gosh.
DeleteYou really come across as a buffoon. Why you would want to get into an argument over something so innocuous astonishes me. Go away and lie down in a darkened room.
DeleteWhoooosh
DeleteAnon at 4.16. Irony, much? Pretends Indy brigade really can’t cope with being challenged. Toddle off you silly billies.
DeleteI agree with you on the logic, but the problem is that previous elections have seemingly been swayed in England because of Labour's lack of support in Scotland. Miliband in Salmond's pocket followed by Corbyn in Sturgeon's pocket.
ReplyDeleteBut we'll need a snappier argument to persuade less engaged Scottish voters that England's voters are definitely going to bin the Tories and don't care what we do anymore. I don't know how to tackle it, because stuff like "they don't know or care who Swinney is" or "we could elect 57 Tory MPs and they'd still have their worst result ever" sounds stupid.
That is nonsense.
DeleteI was reading an article in the Guardian which purported to be about tactical voting to keep the tories out. The article provided a link to this Best For Britain mob. Gives you the opportunity to put in your post code and they tell you who to vote for. Sure enough in my constituency, currently held by Gavin Newlands, the only way to keep the tories out is to vote labour. Disgraceful.
ReplyDeleteA vote for anyone anywhere in Scotland other than SNP is a vote for the union. It really is that simple.
“It really is that simple” no it is not. If you believe that then it is you who are simple.
DeleteIn the context of keeping out unionists in Scotland it really is that simple. Like you, it seems.
DeleteSimple Simon posts for simpletons. You would have said the same simple stuff about voting for Lisa Cameron in 2019. The SNP is full of unionists.
DeleteGlad you moved to ALBA
DeleteMore simple stuff from a simpleton. Never moved to Alba but you just keep on proving you are a simpleton.
DeleteGood work James What methods of redress are available to voters to hold "Best for Britain" to account?
ReplyDeleteJust a rehash of creepy Jim's "Everybody knows that it's the largest party that gets to form the government."
ReplyDeleteI noticed this as well and emailed. Best FOr Britain pointing out that ‘Stop the Tories’ website gave make your own mind up as option in seats Tories were not challengers. I got a fairly standard reply about maximising Labour vote being most effective way of achieving this. I replied suggesting they follow ‘Stop the Tories’ methodology or they look like a pro-Labour rather than anti Tory organisation.
ReplyDeleteAnother narrative that is beginning to emerge is that a Labour government will be more pro Scottish.
I fully expect Labour to win GE then in 2026 Holyrood election will will be told that only a Labour administration at Holyrood can get the best deal go Scotland from Labour at Westminster.
It is patronising drivel.
I see Baroness rape clause Ruth of Untruth is back. There will be much excitement on here from the pretendy brigade.
ReplyDeleteAs someone who has studied and voted in U.K. and Scottish elections I i am baffled by this account and would like Janes to explain himself. It is perfectly possible to construct a situation in which denying Labour a Scottish seat to the SNP could deny them an overall majority in the House of Commons. And indeed totally contrary to what he says most political parties in the Commons are vying to get the largest number of seats and reach the figure which will give them an absolute majority, , that is what ‘cinf7debce’ means to the king. If James really is saying that is not true, I am speechless. It is true that the SNP would never prop up a minority Tory administration but it is perfectly possible depending on the arithmetic where denying Labour a seat means they fall below 326 and some other party, not the SNP I agree, does prop them up . So his relative is right to worry.I have always trusted James on polling and I want to hear his answer. But if he does nor run this I will have to draw the conclusion this is just heat of battle propaganda. True no party right now would I think prop up the Tories barring perhaps the Unionists but the point is still true. If he means ‘in present circumstances’ he should say so.
ReplyDelete