So, for example, you might disagree with David Davis on Brexit but you can still work with him on civil liberties issues.
You might disagree with Tony Blair on the invasion of Iraq, but you were still on his side as he worked for an agreement in Northern Ireland.
You might disagree with Christine Jardine's British nationalism, but if ever there was a chance to join forces with her to bring about electoral reform at Westminster, you'd grab it with both hands.
You might disagree with Patrick Harvie on the trans debate, but if you want to work with him to save the world from the climate emergency you can GO TO HELL because you are a TRANSPHOBIC BIGOT who must be NO-PLATFORMED and treated as a NON-PERSON and REMOVED FROM EMPLOYMENT because frankly if the world BURNS that is a PRICE WORTH PAYING to prevent a MONSTER like you from having ANY PLACE IN OUR POLITICS.
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is where moderation ends and extremism begins. Much the same principle applies for the likes of Owen Jones, Kat Cary and a disturbingly large number of people in the upper reaches of the SNP.
I confess I don't like the SNP anymore (good people in it of course) but as an organisation, it's like watching a jet liner on an inevitable spiralling trajectory downwards towards a crash and burn.
ReplyDeleteThis is sadly all too true. It's student politics masquerading as a principled position.
ReplyDeleteLe sigh. The trans debate is nothing but a shouting match now. The people who *are* affected by the GRA reforms, you know, people who are trans... have to put up with a torrent of abuse in their lives. The folk who venemously appose the GRA usually don't know what it entails, don't know what the current laws are and have probable never met a trans person in their lives
ReplyDeleteIt seems that many insist on trans kids not being allowed puberty blockers, but then insist that because they've gone through the wrong puberty that they should never live a normal life as their affermed gender
This is just a ill informed. As someone with gender dysphoria, there is no "wrong puberty", no "wrong body": you have your own body, which is sexed. You might not feel right in that sex, but the answers (and indeed questions) that throws up are many and varied and do not involve knee jerk use of puberty blockers - the drug Alan Turing was given to "punish" and sterilise him for being gay.
DeleteFor a start, to even begin working through gender dysphoria, you have to ask metaphysical questions about what body and "soul/inner essence/gender" whatever you want to call it is. If I'm "in the wrong body" *who or what* is "in the wrong body"?
Genuinely gender dysphoric and transsexual people (even more so intersex people) are not helped by the kind of ignorant cult-like mantras repeated endlessly by useful idiots who want to see kids who don't "conform" to sexist, regressive stereotypes put on a lifetime of expensive medication.
And that's before you even begin on the very real harms to women and girls from predatory men who will exploit the most gaping loophole you can ever give them to terrify and abuse women and girls.
Yes, the "debate" (those that's not what I would call this) is a shouting match. It should not be. It would not be if the ignorant "allies" who have zero understanding backed off and allowed the grown ups to discuss properly how to rid society of gender stereotypes and deal with healthcare for the very tiny number of people with actual gender dysphoria, who cannot deal with it without transition.
There's no such thing as Trans people. There are mentally disabled people who need specialist treatment to cure them of their delusions.
DeleteSigh! The usual Sturgeonite version of 'tolerance'. Those who don't agree with me don't know what they're talking about and their criticism is 'venemous'. And, of course, a bland assertion of the abuse trans people suffer but no actual evidence for it. Thank goodness we have 'enlightened' souls like you who can teach our four year olds how to keep secrets from their parents. Sexual grooming?
DeleteSo three responses, one from someone claiming to suffer from gender dysphoria - insisting parents are making their children conform by *becoming trans*
DeleteA second with typical hate spewed
The 3rd one totally unable to find any evidence of abuse despite the commend directly above theirs and then aluding to paedophilia
I think that proves my original point quite well
Hey, PeeJay, it may be a form of mental illness, but it's one which is heavily bound up with the mental illness and delusion of society which is gender stereotypes. A huge amount of gender dysphoria comes from external people forcing roles and stereotypes onto others.
DeleteFor myself, I'm very glad I stayed well away from the so called "specialists" who "treat" it, because it's never been so clear they - at best - know nothing about what they claim to be experts in treating and at worst are dangerous individuals grooming kids into lifelong medication far too young and gaslighting their parents. Many of us work it out for ourselves, and kids would be a whole lot healthier left to do that than sent to these "specialists" right now.
Ten years down the line, I suspect we'll be seeing mass court cases for damages from kids who's lives have been ruined. Twenty or thirty from now will be the horrific report onto how kids were groomed and abused via all this, and how those abusers took over key services. Because none of it is based on reality or understanding of gender dysphoria.
Oh please! Another trans 'ally' wittering on about the 'wrong' puberty whatever that means. For good measure, he dismisses Fergie as a liar, presumably because he has no arguments to back up his tosh. More of that 'tolerance' you're in favour of Mike? As for abuse, go to social media and see the vile abuse handed out to critics of the GRA - mostly from people who look more like a pantomime dame than a woman. Have you even bothered to read Lulu's comment to try to understand why women are worried about GRA? If Peejay and I are the worst examples of this 'abuse' you claim is so endemic, you need to get out more. How about campaigning for independence while you're at it?
DeleteWorryingly Ruth Wishart's very sensible article in the National has led to members of my party the Scottish Green Party calling her transphobic, which in my opinion she is not. They are asking SGP members to unfollow her.
ReplyDeleteThis kind of reaction has three damaging effects. One is that useful and sane people like Ruth and Andy Wightman are hounded. Another is that when the general public wake up to the demands which trans activists are making on behalf of trans people, the backlash will last for years.
But the really tragic effect is that the SNP gets distracted from the main idea Independence and the Greens get distracted from their main idea Climate Campaigning, both exceptionally important to all of us, in order to campaign for a niche issue relevant to half of one percent of the population.
It's almost as though someone is trying to derail independence and climate campaigning, and very effectively.
The SNP has been "distracted" from independence since around 2015. There is no evidence that it has done any meaningful work on it since the referendum.
DeleteYear 2014 BS (before Sturgeon)
DeleteCurrent year 7 AS ( after Sturgeon) so today's date is 18/8/0007
As the true believers think she is some sort of deity it is only a matter of time before they will want to change the calendar for Scotland.
It must be me.
ReplyDeleteI can remember the good old days pre-Twitter when you could have a real good political debate.
I can remember the good old days pre-Twitter when cult Followers were solely the domain of the Moonies (remember them). The other cult that brainwashed the young and vulnerable.
I can remember the good old days pre-Twitter when Rangers and Celtic fans met twice a year. Then I remember (thanks to the powers that be chasing Murdoch gold) it went to four times a year.
Now thanks to Twitter fans of the Old Firm square off 24/7.
The sooner Scotland goes back to leading the world and bans Twitter the better
"A disturbingly large number of people in the upper reaches of the SNP"
ReplyDeleteYep and Somerville is good example. Issuing her lengthy "guidance" to schools stating that primary 1 ( 4/5 year old ) pupils may want to "trans" and it may be appropriate to exclude parents. Now the liar SS keeps on saying it is Alba people who raise these matters. Nope it was Somerville (also a liar) who issued her "guidance to schools".
And all those other bampots on WGD are other examples of intolerance. Encouraged by the blogger WGD who calls the persecution of Salmond a "conspiracy theory".
And just to illustrate the point made above that it is not Alba people continually raising the issue of GRA we have Ruth Wishart (Sturgeon supporter ) and then Josh Mennie (Sturgeon supporter ) both with articles in the National on this topic.
DeleteJosh has boasted that he uses ladies toilets all the time. Surprisingly, he cannot seem to see that some women/girls may feel in danger or concerned about this, particularly as his article is all about trans people feeling frightened and endangered. I note that Josh has dropped the Josh Aaron- Mennie name that he blatantly used to get to the top of election lists. The double barrelled name that his mother said he has always used. Is this the type of person we want representing the independence movement?
My daughter was abused by a man who, when in my daughters home, wore frilly knickers and makeup and insisted he be called she/her whilst inflicting the most dreadful psychological, sexual and physical abuse on my daughter. Outside in the real world no one knew his secret, he was a big hairy man. I never knew what was happening at the time and six years later I am dealing with the fall out of that abuse. He has run away. When I finally persuade my daughter to go to the police they will find him. But currently she cannot go to Rape Crisis or the Police as they are not safe places for women unless as a natal woman you accept that the man I describe here is a woman. This is what we real women are dealing with. Behind this public drama real lives are being ruined because woman's rights are no longer theirs. Because we are now expected to share our complete right to be a woman with men. 5 Years ago I was sympathetic to the complexities of the trans issue, many women were...not any more!
ReplyDeleteLulu Bells sorry to read about your daughters problems. Sadly the Rape Crisis Scotland organisation has been politicised by its leader Sandy Brindley who is just a paid Sturgeon (and the alphabetties) mouthpiece. Remember Sturgeon stated that a lot of the alphabetties are her friends. Strangely enough Sturgeon is not being prosecuted by COFPS for jigsaw identification. Sturgeon is corrupting everything she touches. She has morphed in to a corrupt Britnat (assuming she ever did support independence).
Delete4 Nations approach = Devolution = Unionism = SNP Betrayal.
ReplyDeleteAnother example would be that disagree with Rory Stewart about alot of things but he made alot of sense at the start of the pandemic last year and hes making alot of sense about Afganistan now. Hard to disagree with statements like this:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jc5ShMGr9g
and having to put up with the UK Foreign secretary telling us the UK is a 'big hearted nation' while Priti Patel cackles in the background makes me even more sick of all of this. IoS statement about 4nations=Unionism is increasingly true, as we start to appear like eager puppies at the back of the room shouting 'me sir!, me sir, I can do that!'
DeleteMentioning Blair is not a good analogy James. Blair is a corrupt war criminal. It really isn't fair to compare him to some others like Harvie who doesn't have blood on his hands.
ReplyDeleteOh and about that poisonous Yoon Jardine. I have no interest in reforming Westmidden - It is now beyond reforming with its almost inbuilt Tory majority and corrupt ones at that.
Blair/Harvie - the message is more important than the messenger sometimes
DeleteAgrees I don't want Westminster reformed I want out of it.
DeleteI think the time for weeping over the destruction of the SNP is over. I think it's time to move on and accept they are no longer our comrades. The movement is bigger than a single party. The SNP have been given too many chances already.
ReplyDeleteI now look at the SNP as a different party to the one I joined. So there is sadness for the end of an era, but there is only antipathy regarding the new SNP.
The mistake old Labour voters made was staying in the party , when it became the Tory party. So many wasted years hoping for the resurrection of something that died.
Spot on James, this to me is all an excuse to shut down real debate. But it is also disturbingly connected to the charity Stonewall and USA BIG PHARMA. They want to treat children, ffs! Hormone blockers to bairns. Meanwhile, Stonewall had won the war against bigotry, but now had all this infrastructure without any real bogie man to do battle against. So they helped create a new one, genetic females.
ReplyDeleteScottish Government considering making temporary Coronavirus powers permanent.
ReplyDeleteBe scared be very scared.
The Mickey Mouse GERS figures are out. Will it make a lot of difference to support for independence - probably not.
ReplyDeleteThe people who said we are too poor to be independent when it was an annual deficit of £12-15 Billion will feel the same at £23 billion or even if the Britnats went for £100 billion. The actual figure is probably meaningless to them.
Others who know GERS is just propaganda nonsense will ignore it.
Having said that it does not excuse the SNP for doing nothing about it since they were in Government.
In response to the GERS figures Sturgeon says having a deficit does not prevent a country being independent. That is self evidently true. However, by not commenting on the accuracy of the figures she implicitly sends out the signal that the figures are correct.
ReplyDeleteThis is just not good enough from someone who is supposed to be the leader of Scottish independence.
Meanwhile, in the land of the numpties - a small spark of light - Golfnut on WGD asks why as (Richard Murphy also asks) does the Scottish government not debunk these GERS figures more vigorously. It's bloody obvious to me Golfnut but take your time you will get there eventually.
DeleteThe more deep into the cult of Sturgeon on WGD like the liar Skier and DrJim post valid reasons why GERS is just nonsense but do not seem to be able to ask themselves why if I can see these points why do the SNP not state them.
I suppose a small spark is better than nothing.
Exactly. The BBC gleefully report this shit every year.
ReplyDeleteThey don't point out Scotland's figures are only bettered by London and SE England and are entirely expected after 18 months of a pandemic. Still it gives unionists a chance to gush over the benefits of London rule. Without them we'd have to do it ourselves, using our own taxes and powers presently hogged in London.
Thought Kate Forbes did a good debunk job on GERS tonight. Deserves a wider audience IMO.
Ramstam, you do not say where this great performance was. I saw her on STV news and it wasn't that great to me. Now they could have cut a lot of what she said from the broadcast but the point remains that we should not have to put up with this crap year after year.
DeleteI repeat what happened to the promised replacement that they said Derek McKay would produce.
I also saw the performance of the rep from Fraser of Allander Insitute and she (Spowage) just demonstrated why I have said in the past that this Insitute is a Britnat organisation.
Mike (privatise the NHS) Russell tells us the £600k indyref2 funds aren't missing.😂😂😂
ReplyDeleteSo the treasurer and the 3 Finance Audit people all resigned over nothing. The Police are investigating nothing. Just how gullible does he think SNP members are.
If all that money is there then why not upgrade the horsebox to a caravan?
"If you go through life with your head in the sand all people see is an ass."
ReplyDeleteNeatly describes the numpties on WGD.
I've been on a lot of independence marches. There is a popular chant - "What do we want - INDEPENDENCE- When do we want it - NOW."
ReplyDeleteAny SNP members attending in future should really be chanting- NOT NOW.
Update - Scottish Green members attending ( if any actually do attend) future independence marches should really be chanting -
Delete" NOT EVER"
The BBC have it that a green/snp deal will bring a referendum ‘within 5 yrs’. They can’t help themselves from making it a crisis but ‘not quite yet’.
ReplyDeleteThere's no point moaning about the BBCs anti indy bias and still paying the BBC licence.
DeleteThe Question time emergency programme on Afghanistan was an England-only embarrassment complete with anti immigrant rhetoric.
Fiona Bruce is sure to end up in the house of Lords for services to the Brit establishment.
Liz Lloyd getting a new job as Sturgeons Strategic Adviser - if this job requires skills in stitching and leaking then you can see why she has got it. No doubt a new job created to justify a big pay rise.
ReplyDeleteNot one person has been held accountable in the Scottish government for all its failings in the persecution of Salmond. Some seem to be getting rewarded by Sturgeon. What a disgrace. These people have no shame. Even the Fabiani report said people should be held accountable.