For what it's worth, here are my own views on the utterly indefensible decision to force Denise Findlay out of the party -
This is absolutely, unspeakably, bloody ridiculous. Israel has occupied the territory of a neighbouring people for decades and has committed countless human rights abuses. Nobody forced Israel to do that, and criticising that is not antisemitism.https://t.co/SqC2X5DdQF— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) December 4, 2019
SNP members voted Denise Findlay onto the conduct committee because they wanted a change of direction in certain respects. If she can be forced out of the party in the bat of an eyelid for pursuing that change, it self-evidently undermines internal party democracy. A dark day.— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) December 4, 2019
I do hope we're not going to be told that expressing an opinion about what should and should not be contained in the definition of antisemitism is in itself antisemitic, because that would be real Through The Looking Glass stuff.https://t.co/CGEmAi2dZU— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) December 4, 2019
* * *
UPDATE: I'm relieved to hear that Denise has reversed her decision to resign from the SNP, and will now fight what appear to be spurious allegations of antisemitism through the party's disciplinary procedures.
Reading between the lines, it's obvious what happened here and I'm so glad Denise hasn't allowed herself to be bullied into resigning. The SNP belongs to *all* its members, not just to those who hold sanitised views. And we've *all* got an election to win.https://t.co/DtcKBY0r8Q— James Kelly (@JamesKelly) December 6, 2019
WT - completely agree. Just been on his fanzine and posted similar. The SNP do need to get a handle on this but now is not the time. After the election is the time to go for the 'woke' infiltrators and get them out.
ReplyDeleteSorry, James, but I must disagree. Woke politics in general -- and very specifically, transgender activists -- are absolute poison. They'll kill everything they touch and unless the leader of any party infected by them takes an unapologetically aggressive attitude towards them, the party is dead. There's really no accommodation possible with these nutters.
ReplyDeleteYou don't cure an 'infection' by attempting to blow your own head off
DeleteThat sound you hear in the distance is Crabclaw, Ruth the Mooth and de Pfeffel nodding you on, rubbing their hands and cackling with glee.
DeleteThis is all going to end in tears. Only for the Tories it will be tears of laughter.
I saw the TV report and they showed the 'tweet'. It was against the Government of Israel at the time (don't think they have one now) and no way would I consider it anti-semitic. Criticism of the policies of the Israeli government to the Palestinians in not anti-antisemitism.
ReplyDeleteOnce the dust of the election is over I think branches may want to find out who is causing mischief and put in a resolution for the spring conference. We may have agent provocateurs within our midst and outwith.
A resolution? When the enemy is in charge of every committee at that conference? WHen they are backed by the party leader and her henchpeople? When they are backed by the fat twonk of a chief executive, who just happens to be married to exhibit A?
DeleteGod luck with that.
I think your post is reassuring, in sense of calling out the problems of what can be a tricky definitional issue, but without going over the top in a self-destructive way.
ReplyDeleteI think the term N--- is used too much in public debate, and to call SNP party members that is not helpful, neither is calling Israel that helpful, and calling people 'Nat sis' is not helpful either.
People need to 'keep the heid', get things in proportion, probably get off the internet, and not play into the hands of the media / opposition.
The IHRA definition of anti-semitism has been accepted by the rest of the world (even the Labour Party). As self-determists we support both Palestinian and Israeli rights to self-determination. That includes the right to self defense. This is an intractable dispute between 2 nations and we don't bring peace one day closer by demonising the only Jewish nation on earth. Support for Denise Findlay is misplaced and does our movement no favours.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to see some evidence that you as a "self-determinist" actually do support Palestine's right to self-determination, because the only obstacle to the exercise of that right is the Israeli military occupation. By throwing your hands in the air and saying "this is an intractable dispute, we must stay out of it, anyone who expresses a view on it is an anti-Semite", you are acting as an enabler of the occupation and throttling any hopes of Palestinian self-determination.
DeleteYou are, in short, a hypocrite. Denise Findlay is not a hypocrite, and anyone who truly believes in the principle of self-determination should be backing her to the hilt.
By the way, "MacLeod", and forgive my paranoia, but why did you use the American spelling of "defense"? You wouldn't be pretending to be something you're not, would you?
DeleteJust as Rev Stu is letting HIS paranoia get a little bit carried away, what with his Twittery meltdown about Nazi death gangs in the SNP, or whatever unhinged hyperbole the voices in his head are instructing him to type about this time.
DeleteWhat is going on with this conduct committee in your opinion?
ReplyDeleteMacLeod my arse. The reson we don't have two nations is because Israel has no interest in a Palestinian state and wants all palestinian land as Isareli territory. Self defence? Who is defending the palestine against Israel? only those who support the appropriation of all palestinian land by Israel can come out with pish like that.
ReplyDeleteOnce a Liberal Democrat always a Tory, and Stuart Campbell has been bursting a blood vessel with his hatred of Nicola Sturgeon for a long time and he saw his chance to do damage and he's gone for it
ReplyDeleteThe comparisons with the Nazis however may have gone too far and I hope if there's any action that can be taken legally against him that it's done and relieve him and his crazy clown followers of their money in court
Kezia Dugdales win in court unhinged him totally and he's never recovered from the fact that a woman beat him whether wrong or right matters not with Campbell because he cannot contain his hatred of women in positions of power, look back over his blog and see the attacks on women just because he believes he's cleverer than them
To the other Anon who replied to this comment: I have no wish to delete your comments, but if you're going to call for named politicians to be sent to prison, you're making it a bit difficult for me.
DeleteI think it would be better to have a universal definition of racism, and we abide by that.
ReplyDeleteI mean why are Jewish people being singled out here by the IHRA? We are all the same, whatever creed, colour, religion we are, so should have the same protection from racism. Doing different definitions suggest people are not all the same, which is the very root of racism.
Anti-semitism is not a different form of racism, it is just bog standard racism but with Jews as the victims. It's definition only comes from that.
There have been many racist genocides in history, and sadly there will probably be others. I think the IHRA should remember all the victims.
And I also think no government should have an exception when it comes to comparing their actions with those of the nazis. Not if it's a fair comparison.
I personally won't adopt the IHRA for 'antisemitism', or at least I won't single out Jews in this way, as that seems racist to me. I will instead consider its guidance in terms of the rights of all peoples to live free from racism.
DeleteFor example, I do agree that Jewish people have right to self determination, just as Scots and all peoples do.
You beat me to it was going to post the same. Of course there are a whole slew of laws, criminal, employment and civil that protect people from racism and racial discrimination so a separate definition does seem a bit pointless.
DeleteOf course criticising a country's Government (our your own government) is not racist as long as you don't insinuate anything to do with race. So saying:
xxxx country Government is a totalitarian undemocratic regime
is not racist. But saying:
xxxx country Goverment is a totalitarian undemocratic regime because its run by (insert a race here) is.
Very basic and easy to understand, so does make you wonder why people want to use a method that makes things less clear.
Even the holocaust itself targeted a wide range of groups; the slavic peoples were slaughtered in their millions for example because the Nazis likewise considered them 'sub-human'.
DeleteAll victims should be remembered equally. Every life lost was an equal tragedy.
We as individuals should never feel more pain for the death of an another simply because they are of the same religion, nationality, colour... That is racism embodied.
Criticising an authoritarian reactionary right wing Government (or left wing one for that matter) is just that. Israel as a country is not the issue but one can take issue with the policies of a specific Government of Israel. Indeed many Israeli citizens are less than happy with the behaviour of some of their leaders.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't be comfortable with Israel=Nazi any more than German=Nazi. Nazis are Nazis not whole countries. That said, one does get the feeling that certain individuals are using anti-Semitism to close down valid criticism of policy decisions regarding occupied territory. That can't be right.
Israel has a right to exist with peace and security but it can't be above scrutiny nor should any country be.
The same goes for all political issues. Closing down debate invariably is agenda driven.
Was going to reply to you on Twitter James but this is far easier!
ReplyDeleteFirstly, hope you are keeping well.
Secondly, on the topic of Denise Findlay's departure from the SNP, not going to comment on the Israel tweet (have views but that's all they are) or any of the GRA type stuff (I honestly can't get my head round what it all is and have no view at all as a result) but I can comment fairly accurately on Denise's other Twitter activity and the serious problems they cause to her as a member of the Member Conduct Committee.
I was the convener of the predecessor Disciplinary Committee and the same principles of natural justice and fairness apply to the MCC as they did the DC.
Primarily you can't as a member of the committee comment or express any view on any potential case, either privately or publicly, you have to wait till the disciplinary hearing with the member (if there is one), hear the arguments from the National Secretary and the member and then make a judgement.
Sharing supportive Tweets in favour of a currently suspended member of the Party who may well appear in front of the MCC at some future date, is at best naive, at worse daft and would certainly rule out Denise from being able to sit in any hearing that takes place about Neale Hanvey's conduct.
If I was the committee convener I'd also have severe doubts over her ability and judgement to be a member of the committee as she should have had training on the very topic of not prejudging a case.
So I'd say that whilst there may be other agendas I'm not party to and don't really understand (see above), on the matter of her membership of the MCC then far from being forced out, Denise has effectively failed in her duty to the Party membership as a member of this committee and it's correct that she's not a member of the MCC any more.
The obvious point you're missing here is that she was elected to the Conduct Committee specifically by members who wanted to see things done differently, and particularly by those who thought the disciplinary process was being used to shut down legitimate debate and free speech. It's incredibly ironic that she's fallen victim to precisely that kind of zealotry herself. And in any case, even if you truly believe her position on the *committee* was untenable, how can anyone justify the fact that she appears to have been forced out of the *party* altogether?
DeleteErm, no I'm not.
DeleteIf she felt that free speech was important then the place to make that argument is at the MCC on behalf of any member who is placed in front of that committee to face a disciplinary hearing.
To publicly comment on a live case or show any view of the candidate means that there can't be a fair hearing involving that committee member - it does the Party, the membership and the member facing the hearing no good at all.
Incidentally, members of the MCC/DC who felt that the members should get a more liberal hearing and that the "leadership" were agin free speech are nothing new - the difference was that they did that in the proper place and had the effect that they aimed for.
I only commented on her place on the committee as I've some knowledge on that area. I would doubt that's been the cause of her leaving the Party - that would be the other areas I made no comment on and certainly didn't justify it or not.
Brilliant. The place to defend free speech is behind closed doors. I hope you'll forgive me if I think that's a rather naive view.
DeleteIn any case, and with all due respect, I do feel your comments have largely missed the point because it's the fact that she's been forced out of the *party* that is concerning people. If she'd been merely forced out of her elected position, that would have caused consternation, especially among those who voted for her and had valid reasons for doing so, but nothing like on this scale.
Oh, and one final point: it's fatuous to pretend that Denise is the one responsible for prejudging Neale Hanvey's case when senior figures in the party (most obviously Stewart McDonald) have been piling in to demonise him. They're not treating him as someone who has been suspended pending a ruling, they're treating him as someone who has been provisionally expelled pending a rubber-stamp.
Deletedandydowser makes a really important contribution to the debate around the tragic situation in which a valued SNP activist - Denise Findlay - has resigned. Members of the conduct committee need to be willing to stay neutral, to make sure that cases are dealt with in an even-handed way. James (at 11:12) argues that others, such as Stewart McDonald, are also prejudging the case. This is a wrong thing for them to do.
DeleteSorry but she isn't our greatest asset if she continues to support and let this faction destroy the careers of good people and, inevitably, our chance for independence. Indepence is supposed to be the goal - not getting people sacked simply because they signed the women's pledge and refuse to deny science. They are the ones threatening the stability of the SNP and Independence - not Wings.
ReplyDeleteWings is trying his best.
DeleteWell done Wings even although you are a wee plonker. And that Dug, just wondering when she will come out for the Nat si dark side.
DeleteYeah, Rev Stu is 100% taking advantage of this situation, and any other situations he can get his hands on, to push his new Wings party agenda.
DeleteI suspect he'd be very happy indeed for the SNP do badly at this election. If the SNP lose seats next week, all the better for him. Because he needs the narrative to be that the SNP can't possibly deliver independence so that he can hoover up gullible voters for his indy-endangering vanity project.
People need to stop shovelling money at him to sit on his arse, write a declining number of articles every month, and throw shit in the direction of the SNP to see what sticks. Because they're no longer funding the independence movement, they're fuelling the Rev Stu show. Once independence is here, the game is up for the Rev. But when so many dolts are willing to shower him with money, it's just not in his financial interests to see independence through.
Only when the money taps switch off will he maybe wake up and remember why people are paying him in the first place, and stop focusing on damaging the indy cause as much as he can.
Never trust a Campbell!��
ReplyDeleteAlways trust a Campbell to get rid off Italian pretenders.
DeleteVery interesting story. I gave up on Wings a while back but wondered what all the fuss was about.
ReplyDeleteThere always has been and always should be a mix of views on any subject matter. Verbally abusing or threatening someone is just not on but in these days of twitter and the likes, it's far too easy but everything that is in the public domain has consequences.
No one who is on an appeals committee, political or otherwise can ever express a public view, especially without the facts in front of you.
Has the SNP been infiltrated by the 5th column, no. Just a few opinionated young bucks who haven't lived in the real world.
Are trans people a targeted minority yes, the question then is, how can we protect minorities without the majority feeling unsafe. I don't have an answer, no one does, that is why it hadn't been resolved.
As for Wings, I made the correct decision, I'm afraid he has completely lost it.
Seems Denise Findlay may have resigned rather than been forced to do anything?
ReplyDelete"Forced to resign" are the words I used. The idea that she resigned out of free choice is rather silly. She'll have been leant on. Heavily.
DeleteThis is all very depressing .This is the most important election we have faced in generations and the polls and my instincts suggest the SNP are going to do well.Yet here we have an internal squabble .
ReplyDeleteTwo things I would say criticising Israels policy towards the Palestinians is not anti Semitic .
I don't want trans people to be discriminated against but at the same time I very much understand the concerns expressed by Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry .I don't know how to resolve these issues but it certainly ain't going to be resolved by arguments on social media .
If Baw Jaws wins a majority Scotland is facing a hard Brexit and a Tory administration that will be like Thatcher on steroids .
The only party that stands up for Scotland is the SNP and Scotland needs a strong SNP at this point in the nation's history .We do not need cliques and people pursuing there own agendas the cause of Independence is greater than them all .
It's time to put these squabbles on the back burner .We need every activist fired up and doing their utmost to ensure the SNP vote doesn't stay at home like it did in 2017
Correct, keep the eyes on the prize of independence or we'll be unable to change any of the ills of the world.
DeleteMake no mistake, It's not paranoia that certain folk are working to divide us.
Keep the heid tae succeed!
Firstly it's not a simple case of arguing that comparing Israel to Nazis is not anti-semitic, there were apparently 3 tweets that actually compared Israel to Nazis. So the person involved was NOT open about it.
ReplyDeleteSecondly if I was party leader of any party I'd make sure every politician, official and candidate signed up to a CODE OF CONDUCT on twitter, facebook, instagram, forums, any others. Why? Because it reflects on my party, and indirectly therefore on me, and something the media would be crawling all over me on - as indeed it is all over Corbyn and Sturgeon. I would not want to be at a leaders' debate and have that as a distraction. Would YOU?
It would of course be up to the party to democratically construct the code of conduct; if I didn't like it I'd resign as leader, and very possibly from the party itself if serious enough.
Comparing Israel to Jews is at the very least insensitive on an inhuman scale considering that it was the Nazis who murdered 6 million Jews - though there are Holocaust Deniers it seems. Writing about the human rights record of Israel is a totally different thing.
If there were three tweets that made that direct comparison, why didn't Channel 4 News run them? I presume they would have used the most damaging one they could find.
DeleteWhy do I not have the right to compare anybody or anything to any other thing? Have you heard of freedom of speech?
DeleteThe israeli constitution literally declares Palestinians to be Untermensch. NAZIS.
The state of israel smashes up Palestinian businesses and destroys their homes. Kristallnacht. NAZIS.
The state of israel uses chemical weapons against civilans. Just like the NAZIs.
By their deeds shall ye know them. Behave like NAZIs then get compared to the NSDP.
PS. S MacDonald mp for shiteing it from yaxley-lennon is an MI5 agent. not an if, but or maybe about it.
What about getting onto Wings and pointing that out yesindyref2?
Delete@James
DeleteFrom the Herald:
“Israel with its treatment of Palestinians and latest apartheid laws is Nazi. It is not anti-Semitic to call Israel a Nazi state.”
“Israel’s action against Palestine are definitely Nazi – This is all about surprising perfectly justified criticism of Israel”
“Israel’s behaviour towards Palestinians Is Nazi. It’s the truth call it what it is Nazi” (2 Aug)
Direct comparisons. Which wasn't what was said in the tweet:
"I’ve had to resign from the SNP. There are tweets where I’m arguing that Israel=Nazi should not be part of the definition of anti-semitis. They were given to Channel 4"
The full story should ahve been told, openness like Neale Hanvey. Then people can make up our own minds and not be made fools of by unexpected articles - or broadcasts. And yes, C4 is up to mischief. Hanve's crowdfunder was well oversubscribed; he was open, apologised which cleared the SNP of any problem, and people gave money - rightly I think.
@Anon
My posts are "moderated" precisely because on the first GRA article, I posted "Wake me up when this gets back to the subject of Independence". Since the Rev has nearly totally lost interest in his blog and Independence it seems, no comment appears, except perhaps days later.
Notwithstanding the widespread acceptance of the IHRA definition of antisemitism, I will always struggle with the idea that being offensive about the State of Israel is one and the same thing as hating Jews. The Nazis also committed genocide against the Slavic peoples - I wonder if any political party would even dream of expelling a member for calling Putin's Russia a Nazi state?
DeleteIt's an interesting debate James, the thing is with a hopefully probable Indy Ref 2 next year and a YES vote, it like GRA is a side issue or should be. The SNP in any case has no option but to be totally ruthless - look what's happened to Labour and Corbyn.
DeleteAny SNP official of any sort needs to discipline themselves and think before they post anything - "can this be used against me?" - and consider deleting most of their twitter history BEFORE becoming a candidate for anything.
As for the "Israel=Nazi" I totally agree with H&S above. It's actually quite ignorant of what Nazis were, and what they did.
"The SNP in any case has no option but to be totally ruthless"
DeleteI profoundly disagree with that. Withdrawing all support from a candidate in a top target seat after the nominations closed is idiotic, and I'd suggest events since then have demonstrated why. Standing by him would have had downsides, I accept that, but it would undoubtedly have been the lesser of two evils.
James, would one pro-Indy candidate not forced to be an Independent, be worth a reduction of, say, 5% on the vote? 10%? Mud sticking, whether justified or not? Take the SNP down from 41% to 31% - how many MPs would that give the SNP?
DeleteHe did apologise and resign, so he did the right and honourable thing, putting party and Independence before himself. And he is being rewarded for that integrity via his £2,000 crowdfund which is now "On 4th December 2019 we successfully raised £6,150 with 215 supporters in 3 days". I put a link to it on another forum because he impressed me for his actions, and you'd really have to know where the Rothschilds come in so-called anti-Semitism tropes, which few would unless a bit long in the tooth perhaps! And even then probably not many.
"James, would one pro-Indy candidate not forced to be an Independent, be worth a reduction of, say, 5% on the vote?"
DeleteThrowing away an easily winnable seat was not worth it, no. Not in a million years. The idea that the alternative was a 10% drop in the SNP's national vote is simply not serious or credible. What should have happened is the tried and tested middle option of a grovelling apology (perhaps even with the dreaded "diversity training" thrown in).
We'll have to agree to disagree. Meanwhile I found the Herald had the images of those other tweets:
Deletehttps://www.heraldscotland.com/resources/images/10755611/?type=responsive-gallery-fullscreen
You're welcome of course to delete this and make it FYEO (For Your Eyes Only!)
Doesn't seem to be anything anti-Semitic here.
DeleteShe also does seem to be using the word 'Nazi' as an alternative to 'fascist', as done in common usage. It is one of the dictionary definitions of the word.
I believe that the actions of the state of Israel in relation to Palestinian people and territories are morally wrong. I also believe that this position reflects the majority opinion in Scotland. However, to call these actions 'nazi' is a misuse of language. Nazi Germany was an extreme example: it had an ideology in which non-Aryans, individuals with learning difficulties and mental illness, etc etc were defined as not fully human, and it engaged in mass murder of millions of people across the whole of Europe. Not just in extermination camps, but on the street and in village squares. Not just soldiers and partisans, but babies and children. Many millions of them. Israel is a country that includes many families who were deeply affected by these events, and still need to live with these memories. It is also a country that includes many people who are profoundly against the anti-Palestinian policies that have been pursued by their own government. For these reasons, I regard descriptions of Israel (and Israelis) as "Nazis" as highly insensitive. Anyone who seeks to represent the people of Scotland, in an elected position should not - in my opinion - be using such language.
DeleteIt would be helpful if some people on the left - in the SNP & elsewhere - were as ready to criticise other unpleasant Governments as they are that of Israel. The fact that they aren't, will mean that people can't help questioning what their motives are. And to call Israel "Nazi" is just staggeringly crass and shows appalling judgement.
Delete''That's a crazy thing for any independence supporter to do in the middle of an election campaign in which Ms Sturgeon is unquestionably our greatest asset, and in fact it's such a crazy thing to do that I'm forced to conclude that it's being driven by Mr Campbell's own political ambitions.''
ReplyDeleteIf you followed his site closely you would have noticed that his attitude to Independence, not Nicola Sturgeon the greatest threat to the Establishment, changed when he was charged with harassment in August 2017 and Avon and Somerset Police removed and searched through his computers. So who's actually running the Wings show now? Not Stu Campbell that's for sure. Note that he's stopped attacking the Unionists for months now and focused on attacking what was previously his own side. Keep an eye on him and you will see the attacks being exacerbated over the next few months, leading up to Indyref2, as he follows his instructions.
What utter bollocks.
DeleteEven a cursory glance at Wings shows the target of most of his articles are Unionist hypocrisy or idiocy.
There is as much 'evidence' that Sturgeon is working for the UK State as there is Wings. She is the one that is determined not to 'break the rules' after all.
Nobody of any importance sees Sturgeon as a threat to the integrity of the UK. The longer she remains leader of the SNP, the happier they are.
Now that Stuart Campbell has outed himself as a pro self wings party fund raiser for himself by his pretendy concern over womens issues in a political party he's not a member of and a country in which he does not live it should be more obvious to folk that it's become all or bust for Campbell now
ReplyDeleteAttempt to reduce support for the SNP in order to hang on longer and fundraise his imaginary political party or he's out which he himself admitted months ago that his blog may be in its last year, now it'll have to be, so let's just see who's going to stump up the cash for his political crusade, and more to the point who's going to vote for the foul mouthed twitter abuser for his single issue these will be the words of the great British press if he tries it and they'll make sure he fails and looks ridiculous as he does, oh and I for one will applaude his very abusive mouthed demise
He helped the cause once but over the last several months he hinders it and I have no doubt he'll be made to pay for the level of insulting language he throws around as if he has some divine right to do it
Young James, Swinson and her apologies was something else. Maggie never apologised. Strange thing is Maggie and her regime increased benefits to pacify the unemployed. Swinson knowingly fucked the poor.
ReplyDeleteIs The SNP the party of Independence any longer? Or is it the party of a faction chasing its own agenda? An agenda that has nothing at all to do with Scots Indy? You don't need to answer those questions because we all know in our hears the SNP leadership has lost the plot.
ReplyDeleteIt is saying something when a lot of SNP/Indy voters are putting pegs over our noses to vote SNP.It is also saying something is going badly wrong when the reptilian Douglas Red Card Ross is likely to retain Moray - I hope I am proved wrong about that but I don't think i will be.
Iain, we find out next year if the SNP and Sturgeon are for real - or not. We've been promised Indy Ref 2 in 2020 - #indyref2020. THAT for me is the importance of all of us voting SNP like it or not. So as a bare minimum, with a majority of MPs, and preferably over 40 put there by us, the SNP have no excuse for not going ahead with #indyref2020.
DeleteI'm saying this and I actually believe Sturgeon means it, but cynically the recourse is to make it clear: no Indy Ref 2 in 2020, no Holyrood Government for them in 2021 as they would have proven they couldn't be trusted.
This as far as I'm concerned too, is Last Chance Election for the SNP, so let's make it a good one. Drinks are on Sturgeon!
And here is the thing, nobody has been promised any such thing in 2020.
DeleteI challenge you to find a single quote attributable to Sturgeon that says there WILL BE a referendum in 2020. I'm not talking about headlines in the Sturgeon Fanzine aka The National but actual words that have come out of her mouth.
'It is my intention to', 'it is my preference for', blah, blah, blah. It is as plain as day she has never wanted a referendum this side of the 2021 election.
The Section 30 issue has been set up as a straw man which will enable her to say 'I tried but the big boys wouldn't let me'.
I just wish she would be up front about it. 'I am leader and my view is we need to wait until after 2021. If you don't like it, elect someone else.'
Maybe she is right and maybe she is wrong about the timing but what she has got absolutely wrong is the total absence of any effort to organise a sustained and funded campaign for Independence. In those terms, the last 5 years have been completely wasted.
Never mind the greetin and girnin.
ReplyDeleteThe priority is winning 40 plus MP's on Thursday.
Get that under your belt before trying to cause division.
Sure we need an education campaign to accurately inform Scots of the huge advantages of escaping the EnglandUK so-called Union.
The clusterbourach that is UK politics is like the perfect storm to deliver independence.
We are utterly privileged to have Nicola Sturgeon leading Scotland at this time.
She stands head and shoulders above the
sleekit UK leaders who treat us with contempt and disrespect.
Let's make it a great day for Scotland on Thursday. It's coming yet for a' that!.
Remember that the West Bank wouldn't be occupied by Israel if Jordan hadn't invaded Israel (the West Bank used to be part of Jordan, remember). As such, the West Bank and the definition of the Israeli border is in limbo, and the Israeli's are paranoid about getting invaded again. Similar to the definition of Poland for half the last century, with a lot of Poland now Ukrainian and a lot of Germany now Polish.
ReplyDeleteIt's a complicated situation, and should be acknowledged as such, rather that 'oppressors vs. the oppressed'. United Arab military aggression does play a big part in all this.
It always has been complicated, for thousands of years. But in more recent times it's possible Israel is also a victim of the Cold War divide and conquer approach, and should be allies with Palestinians for mutual protection. With people on one side or the other that's difficult to achieve.
DeleteThat anyone considers Ms Sturgeon "is unquestionably our greatest asset" shows both the paucity of the SNP Leadership and the blind faith of SNP supporters.
ReplyDeleteShe has neutral to positive satisfaction ratings 12 years into office (as DFM / FM).
DeleteShe's not going to be popular with everyone, including party members, but that's utterly remarkable. It's completely unheard of.
That anyone thinks Stuart Campbell is anything more than a shit-stirring chancer who rides solely on the coattails of his contribution to the referendum five years ago, while producing nothing of value or worth in the here and now, shows the intellectual density and blind faith of his supporters.
DeleteHaving read the comments by Hanvey I would say he has nothing to apologise for and should not have been sacked. Soros irrespective of being Jewish is an international capitalist who profited from Black Wednesday. People like him can determine whether you have a job tomorrow.
ReplyDeleteIf this Denise person was on the conduct committee but acted in an impartial way as some are noting, then that would be grounds for dismissal.
ReplyDeleteSeems to be an awful lot of trolling going on right now anyway. Suggest unionist bumbs are squeaking big style.
We are of course looking at a union breaking election. With indy support at 50% on average, and the age demographics edging up Yes a little more each day, a Tory win + brexit takes Yes to permanent majority. The union dies that day in Scottish hearts, forever.
Johnson might try a Spain, but all that would do is push yes up even further and England would be faced with trying to hold onto Scotland by force, or withdrawing in good order.
Meanwhile, over on Wings, the anti-SNP campaign hots up with a new article, just 7 days before the General Election. The question on everyone's lips is - will there be such an article every day for a week?
ReplyDeleteI support WGD:
https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2019/12/05/i-support-nicola-sturgeon/
I haven't read Wings in over a year. I'm not interested in daily updates of the online trans panic.
ReplyDeleteI actually broadly support the points he's trying to make, and have changed my views on the subject mainly a result of actually thinking about it after being prompted to by Wings and others to do so.
DeleteHowever, it seems to have rather consumed him.
I think he actually needs some time off, just to preserve his sanity. The rest of us do have lives outside the political socialmediaspehere, and are the better for it.
He's certainly taking time off the website, judging by how his article output has been in freefall for the past several years.
DeleteWhat he needs is time off Twitter. Like Trump before the 2016 election, someone needs to confiscate his Twitter so he stops screaming dementedly about how the SNP is rife with Nazi death gangs.
He's practically one step away from insisting Nicola Sturgeon is behind Pizzagate. Guy seriously needs to regain some perspective before he goes right off the deep end.
I think you are making the mistake of believing that he has any individual influence on events. Nobody votes a particularly way 'cos Stuart Campbell', just as pretty much nobody will vote Yes 'Cos Nicola Sturgeon'. A good leader can help a party in elections, and personality counts at local level, but issues such as indy are beyond individual politicians and so very far away from internet bloggers for these to be utterly irrelevant.
DeleteThe reality is that nobody (bar one or two total nutters) will vote based on what Campbell says he things folks should do. He's not even standing for election, unlike Trump was. In fact if Campbell starts telling people how to vote, he will lose readers and influence very quickly, just as happens to politicians. The public are open to listening to reasons why they should vote a particularly way, but they hate being told how to vote.
As it stands, some people might have been influenced to vote a certain way by information they were directed to by a Wings article. Or at least it led them to investigate further. However, the information was the influence, not Campbell.
So it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if he came out all guns blazing for the union tomorrow, it wouldn't impact things at all. You'd just find a lot of readers disappointed in his change of heart, and quick enough they'd move on. Their indy support is based on the fundamental political / constitutional / economic situation, not on blogger opinions.
On the contrary, there are plenty on his Twitter feed and the comments section of his blog working themselves into an anti-SNP frenzy worthy of GWC. Campbell of course is more than happy to retweet and magnify those opinions.
DeleteThere has been a notably downturn in the number and frequency of comments on his site over the past few months. So I don't doubt the saner readership has largely departed, but he still has a considerable voice within the Yes movement.
And with only the cultiest of cultists, a few well-intentioned Wings alumni trying in vain to swim against the tide, and a sprinkling of bad-faith Yoon agitators left on his site to froth about Sturgeon as rabidly as the Daily Mail, it's certainly not doing anything to help the Yes movement - and is far more likely to damage it.
See, for example, the abstentionist thing they've been trying to get going in the comments for a while now. A lot won't listen, but some will. And considering how ultra-marginal many of the seats were at the last election, that could make a difference.
Having a voice does not mean having an influence.
DeleteI can assure you, there are very, very few people who check what Stuart Campbell's opinion is on something before voting for it.
He's done a good job in the past directing people to information that might influence their vote, but, as always, information speaks for itself and it is that which influences things.
I don't care who has linked me to some information.
I still go to have a read a Campbell's twitter and take a look at some of the stuff he's linked so to make my own mind up. I don't care what he thinks personally.
Recently though, it's become less useful as a source to me though, for some of the reasons discussed.
I, like most people, will make my own mind up about how to vote. That won't be based on what he or anyone else is voting.
If you say so. But when the bad penny drops next week, and the SNP struggle to retain their 35 seats, don't come crying here because the Rev and the Daily Mailer/abstentionist infestation in his comment section have helped kill the idea of independence for a generation.
DeleteStuart Campbells words "Unfortunately it is now clear the First Minister IS one of the little woke fascists"
ReplyDeleteThose who agree with or support such language about Scotlands FM should be condemned out of hand, I can only think Stuart Campbell is now purposely inciting trouble and also could probably be hoping for another court case against him (which he would again lose) in order to further his own project which is the continuation of the crowd funding of his lifestyle
Nicola Sturgeon has been a supporter of Scottish Independence and politician for 30 years, had she been in politics to further financial gain or other agenda she would have not joined the SNP but some other party where she could have been much more financially rewarded if she had chosen, but she chooses Scotland and it's people, and there is not a bone in her body that isn't dedicated to that purpose
Sturt Campbell however is an entirely different question
It would seem that he is inviting court action, well once the current election is over I fervently hope he gets his wish and his vile Katy Hopkins style of gutter smearing is put to an end
As for this election, it is a 'stop brexit' election.
ReplyDeleteNo mandate for iref2 can be obtained here, and the SNP should absolutely not be suggesting that be the case. Scotland's future is decided in Scotland, at Holyrood. This isn't a Scottish election, it's an EVEL English one masquerading as a British one. Westminster does not represent the Scottish people and Scotland's future is not in its hands. The SNP should never give credence to the idea that it is.
A good SNP showing is merely desirable to influence UK proceedings as long as Scotland is in the UK, delaying or softening brexit (at least for Scotland), while stopping the media / other parties saying 'but the results shows people don't support independence!'.
If the SNP went into this election with 'independence' on the side of buses then failed to make any major progress, the media would act like 2017 and declare that a cancellation of any indy mandate. And how could you argue it wasn't effectively?
Knickerless does not represent all the Scots and Westminster does represent Scots.
ReplyDeleteNo, it doesn't. It is the UK parliament. It represents Britain.
DeleteThe UK Parliament is also known as the Westminster Parliament.
DeleteIt is not elected by the people of Scotland, but by the people of the UKoGB, so represents them, not Scots. You are forever pointing this out with your 'It's a UK election!' stuff.
DeleteUnless you want to change your mind on that?
I came of age during the Section 28 repeal. I felt sick to my stomach over what money and influence, disinformation and bigotry could do to a part of Scotland who went mad over gays. So much so that as a gay teen I almost left Scotland; it took me a long time to love my country and here we are again; a piece of legislation, a consultation and a subset going balls to the wall crazy over 'the trans' and how 'they might, or it could or perhaps maybe' just as it was nearly 20 years ago casting them as frauds or liars or predators. And the need to 'protect the children'; I remember that 'panic' and it worries me it's happening again. So for those who've went off the deep end, fallen down the trans panic twitter hole to the extent they've lost all sense of perspective, sort your life out and get your sh-t together.
ReplyDeleteThere's a reason Wee Ginger Dug has never lost his grip on reality, while Stuart Campbell appears to be in the throes of a genuine and worrying nervous breakdown.
DeleteThe former wisely rejected Twitter a long time ago, whereas the latter has allowed it to consume him entirely, to the point where the poisonous world of Twittosphere tantrums now appears to be his whole reality.
His site lies neglected and gathering dust and the occasional SNPBAD article, while he rants day in and day out on Twitter about trans people and the evil SNP and That Nicola Sturgeon, all with an increasingly tenuous grip on perspective and reality outside of the nuttiest and angriest corners of cyberspace.
And to think he used to be so talented and productive. How sad.
I'm with the founder of stonewall on this issue. My position is pretty much identical to his.
Deletehttps://www.holyrood.com/inside-politics/view,cofounder-of-stonewall-calls-for-calm_14648.htm
Co-founder of Stonewall calls for calm
Vote SNP. It's the sane thing to do.
ReplyDeleteSee when people get death threats. Sympathy cards. Photos of their homes tweeted and incontinence knickers sent to them because someone wrote a poem called pishy drawers then I’ll weep and wail over Findlay having to resign from the snp. She tweeted lies about me while I was in the middle of that. I left the snp over this. I was a hard working activist. Not the let’s use twitter to pick on women and go to a march 4 times a year. Half of Indy Scots twitter knew what was happening to me. They saw the same happening to Julie. Elle and several others. My personal details are on Bill Brady’s nasty blog. People have folders of my twitter dating back to Xmas 2017. One disgusting account opened on my birthday and made over 1000 tweets. Some were so vile I was advised not to read them. When that account came down I got targeted on Facebook. I was also fat shamed. Falsely accused of grifting cash and trolled over my mums cancer and my grans stroke. I was also reported to the dwp for doing a small crowdfund to buy yes leaflets. There were also threats to report me to police. Constantly. And to the dwp again. There was even a we hate Pauline dm group. So don’t give me the crud that Findlay was targeted over the GRA. She doesn’t care about women’s rights. Anymore than her band of zoomer co Horts. As if any of them did they wouldn’t have targeted me and other women in this fashion. The snp is better off without the likes of her in it. And a good few others. Internet gangsters
ReplyDelete