Monday, December 2, 2024

Is an early Holyrood election actually in the interests of any of the opposition parties?

I don't take seriously all the chatter about the Budget failing and an early Holyrood election being called, because past history shows that a resolution is generally found - even if it happens very theatrically at the last minute.  However, the best way to judge the true level of danger in these situations is to ignore what opposition parties are saying in public and consider whether in the case of each party an early election actually serves their own self-interest.

Labour:  Even for Labour it's not a straightforward equation.  They would undoubtedly gain a large number of seats in any early election, but it's unlikely to be the clear-cut victory they were starting to take for granted only a few months ago, so there's a danger of looking like a firework that fizzled. That might drain momentum away from them as they look ahead to the 2026 election, which under the rules would still take place.  On the other hand, they might get into government, which is the ultimate goal for any party, but that would almost certainly require a deal with the Tories and possibly with Reform UK as well.  That would be bound to complicate their 2026 campaign, ie. "a vote for Labour is a vote for the Tories and Farage".

Conservatives: Without question an early election is not in the Tories' best interests.  They would lose up to half their seats, would drop to third place or possibly fourth, and would see Reform UK open up a bridgehead against them.  The chance of having some power or influence within a new unionist government surely doesn't outweigh all of those negatives.  So in a rational world, if there looked to be any danger of the SNP government falling, they would head off the danger by abstaining somewhere along the line.  In practice it's very difficult for them to do that, though, because it would damage their anti-SNP-ultra tough guy image.

Liberal Democrats: On paper an early election is very clearly in the Lib Dems' interests, because they would stand to gain seats, and would have at least a chance of a share in power.  So it's interesting that they seem to at least be theoretically open to a deal (remember they also saved the SNP's bacon when other parties tried to prevent Kate Forbes from becoming Deputy First Minister).  Maybe party finances are the explanation - it could be the Lib Dems have limited resources and would prefer to save them for one big push in 2026.

Greens: It's not simple for the Greens, because polls often suggest they would see some progress in an early election, but that progress wouldn't be dramatic, and they have to weigh that against the fact that they currently hold the balance of power, and might hand that privileged position to Reform UK on a plate if they bring down the SNP government.  For that reason, my guess is that an SNP-Green deal will rescue the Budget, with the second most likely escape route being an SNP-Lib Dem deal (even though the latter doesn't make intuitive sense).

105 comments:

  1. Seen someone comment: No Party wants an early election as they're currently all skint.

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    1. Also most people don't know that due to the Scotland Act 1998 if an extraordinary election occurs due to circumstances like the failure of a budget, it doesn't alter the date of the next ordinary election. So we would have an election in both 2025 & 2026.

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    2. Can you see labour wanting to be in power before the next SGE? Most tories / lib dem as are trying to bale out of their local Authority powers as they don’t want to be holding the baby come next council elections. If the SNP have any sense they should say no thanks rather than grap the responsibility payment.

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  2. SNP could conceivably gain from an early election as the loss of seats might be the kick up the arse that they need to re focus. If they got their act together, they could do well in a 2026 election after people had been exposed to Labour, Reform and the toxic tories for a year. It would however take bottle, guile and political nous. So, probably not happening.

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    1. Doubt they would be able to afford 2 elections so close together. They aren't cheap and the SNP aren't exactly flush with cash at present, even needing to let some of their HQ staff go.

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    2. SNP could conceivably gain from an early election as the loss of seats might be the kick up the arse that they need to re focus.

      Why? They just had a massive loss of seats, and they've expected for a while that another one is coming in 2026. Their response has been to shrug and hope for the best.

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    3. Different voting system and the election they would seek to use in any plebiscite process.

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  3. One party with pockets which run Tesla-deep is Reform. Thankfully, for now, they don’t have a say in Holyrood. This will change in a big way, however, and they will prove to be a problem.

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  4. Alex Neil on Twitter: "Shannon Donoghue must apologise to Alba members for this slander. Not acceptable to spread lies like this"

    Alex Neil is always right about everything and this is no exception. Shannon Donoghue is a wrong 'un.

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    1. Did she used to be on that TV show Beverley Hills 92310? I never watched it cause it was total crap.

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    2. IFS never missed an episode.

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  5. More precisely than whether an early election is “in their interest”, the crucial question is whether they “believe” an early election is in their interest. Because politicians, as everyone, have a high capacity for self-delusion, and may gallop headlong into an election that they believe will be to their advantage when objectively the situation is otherwise. On top of there needs to be a distinction made between what is in party interest, and the interest of individual politicians making the decision

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  6. John Swinney has put SNP into a good place for the election.

    It's credible that SNP could form the next government.

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    1. Indeed. Swinney has certainly exceeded my expectations.

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    2. Aye right. Bet you were singing his praises the day your last fella was forced out. What’s huz name. The patently useless one you were sure had grown into the rĂ´le.

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    3. Not by his own effort. His polling success comes from the failure of labour. Which begs the question, what if we had the right person?

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  7. there is a difference between - cleaning the floor - and re-arranging the dirt on it. What change could there be from an early election?

    Unionist grifters wedded to blighty for their pensions; fake nate grifters doing the same; a death cult laughingly called "the greens", and the new kids on the block the "super anglo little englander fucking bastard party"

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    1. Much to my frustration, the Greens are polling well. I doubt it’s because of their policies or performance, or I hope not! Presumably it’s the SNP’s slump and the general sense among the young that we must do something to save the environment.

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    2. "Death cult" here used in the modern sense of "thing I'm not keen on"

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    3. I think their leadership is as cliquey and mad as Alba’s.

      Why did they force out Andy Wightman? He was Scotland’s best land reformer! The only voice in Holyrood on the issue.

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    4. Maybe his surname was too triggering for them.

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    5. They must have been horrified by a man from the Isle of Wight. Yes.

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    6. All he needed to do was don a dress and call himself Anna Bamewoman. Besides, he'd look delightful in a wig!

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  8. And then another one twelve months later!

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  9. Good analysis James. Where I deviate from it is that I think that Russell Findlay and his Tories rather than Patrick Harvie and his Greens will cut the deal with the SNP. The Tories need a win of some sort and getting something in the budget that is tangibly theirs sets them up to pitch for votes in 2026 as a positive opposition.

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    1. JK appreciates your boot-licking - particularly as it helps him avoid addressing the Wingsian idea of an SNP - Lab coalition.

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    2. I addressed that only a few days ago. Is the problem that I *disagreed* with Campbell on that subject? Apologies, I forgot that wasn't allowed.

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    3. FWIW Labour + SNP coalition of the hot and willing is the very likely outcome in 2026. The higher Reform's tally, the more inevitable the centrist coalition.

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  10. O/T James, but there's an interesting article on the Irish election polling.

    https://pollingindicator.com/#validation

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  11. Yes, I agree. Those fanatical British Nationalist charlatans are well past their use-by-date.

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  12. LibDems (I am a former member...) likely to play it safe and not cause an early election, followed by another one as James correctly indicated would need to happen shortly thereafter, and get (rightly) blamed for it.

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  13. SNP would probably welcome an early election due to being now very well led.

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    1. Firmness of touch…

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    2. Celine Gottwald must not be overlooked.

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    3. Agreed. We made that mistake before. Catastrophic.

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    4. There are no less than 3 Oscar winners living in Celine Gottwald's adopted home of Lochgilphead

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  14. This is against a backdrop where the 2023 Scottish Household Survey of 9,075 people (a 1% mafrgin of error) - that's 9 times as much as a regular opinion poll, shows that the number who trust the Scottish Government 45% is the same as the number that distrust them - 45%. A big drop, and possibly an all time low. And that's 2023 - what would it be now?

    https://archive.is/3NJqh

    On the other hand it seems that I'm one of the few who say that the SG could keep the Winter Fuel Payment universal - even media pundits and people who can't stand the SNP, seem to blame Labour and the Westminster Government - completely. You can fool some of the people some of the time, and sadly you can fool most of the people most of the time. Perhaps most didn't read the small print - the recent announcement was for next year, this year there's nothing.

    Having said that, I'd have had to be one of the 45% who TRUST the Scottish Government, as the alternative - the UK Government - is only fit for the cowp. At least with the SNP there's be some chance it would be recycled rubbish ...

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  15. No doubt you supported Blair saying to the Iraqi colonel that he was hiding weapons of mass destruction as the tanks rolled up.
    Still unless you are the far right supported by tax dodgers or supported by the some of the corrupt TU leaders it is difficult to raise funds.

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    1. You are Pol Pot and I claim my 5p.

      Which is more than we'll get from the ScotGov this winter.

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  16. I think if we can encourage young folk and those apathetic about voting by making the Holyrood elections about independence will get folk to cast their ballot. We need to reengage with the latter in particular to vote based on the advantages of independence. Working with the eu, no Westminster, protect the nhs and social care, use our energy to benefit the people of Scotland not the private owners with Scottish names. Support our agriculture and fishing. Fight the right wing of labour, Tory, reform, Lib Dem’s,
    To promote Scotland rather than degrade and belittle the Scots people. So Holyrood has to be to vote for Independence parties. That will encourage activists to assist.

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    1. We need to do all of that. But without Swinney publicly on board, it won't happen.

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  17. Hopefully if the above is the case then more grown up politics can emerge and consensus on actual issues (public sector wages, services) can be agreed in the Scottish interest.

    Absolutely bored stiff of every issue falling into a fight over the constitution. You'll find noone more in favour of self determination than me but let's keep Scotland's livelihoods in the meantime at the heart of our thoughts.

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  18. Couldn't care less about which party is running an independent Scotland, just that the Scottish people would get the govt they vote for. How is this difficult to understand?

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  19. I am KC and I endorse this message. GSTK.

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    1. I like a bit of whimsy, me. Ooh, do say you'll chase me into the woods. I'll follow you down the old bull and bush and make merry with jellied eel, me old cobbler's cove.

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  20. Anon at 9:11 is back using her favourite "charlatans" line, confirming her status as someone with a rather sophisticated vocabulary who is considerably superior to the commoners who support independence and who have run a number of governments much more effectively that their "non-charlatan" counterparts in London like May, Johnson, Truss and Sir Starmer. She sounds like a bit of a charlatan AKA that.

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  21. People are being too negative about the SNPs prospects.

    The SNP is doing a good job and I have every confidence they will win the next election.

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    1. Declan! Where have you been?

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    2. He's been punching the air.

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    3. SNP / Greens need to get that Yes army on field in 2026. It’s the difference between a minority for Yes parties and another term of economic ruin, and an new historic turnout with record Yes support topping 2021’s incredible result. They need to say ‘A vote for us is a vote indy’ and put that on the f’n ballot.

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    4. "It's coming for all that!" Yes, yes! Get some!

      Declan! Is that you up in your room playing war games again? Get on with your bloody schoolwork!

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    5. Well well well. Can that really be Scottish Skier agreeing with me - better 5 years late than never I suppose. The SNP failed to make 2021 a de facto referendum on independence. Make it 2026 Swinney and repent for all your past wrongdoings.

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    6. "They need to say ‘A vote for us is a vote indy’ and put that on the f’n ballot".

      They won't though will they?

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    7. Big Eater From PerthDecember 3, 2024 at 11:57 AM

      The Greens could be the shock(ing) troops of the Yes Army. You need some heavy duty nationalists, if you know what I mean.

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    8. Its a badge of honour to be trolled by House Jocks like KC. Just like the SNP trolls House Jock trolls don't like to hear the truth.

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    9. A badge of honour! Your life is sad.

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    10. IFS,
      I’m afraid it’s the likes of yourself that dosen’t like hearing the truth.

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    11. He probably doesn't like people who can't spell either, maybe that's why he takes no notice of your opinions.

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  22. Sensible comments being deleted while a few weeks ago comments condoning the morons at Rugby Park ruining the minutes silence for Britains war dead were allowed to stay up.
    Little wonder only a minority support independence!

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    1. Toddle off to the Tory club., will ye ?

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    2. They wouldn't let him in. Too toady.

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    3. Pitiful comments @11:00 & 11:10.

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    4. the hottentots, picanninnies, street shitters and oirish need to start appreciating the good the empire did for them

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    5. ireland 1840 for the "better together"-tour and the "at least we aren't speaking german" jamboree

      all official history is a dark lie, a black foul ejaculation from the devils backside

      if you stink bad enough, they give you a chair at harvard like niall ferguson

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  23. Grouse Beater twitter reports that:

    BBC Radio Scotland - Sunday Morning Politics

    Three panellists, one woman asked what she thought of Salmond's memorial service replies- " It was all a bit Scottish, wasn't it."


    The slow anglicisation of Scotland the colony. More and more House Jocks like KC trying to be English.

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    1. A Scottish remembrance for a Scottish hero in Scotland's highest cathedral in the historic centre of the Scottish capital. How dreadful!

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    2. Don't listen to bbc scotland radio phone ins. A demographic of people who have nothing better to do than moan and a sensationalist presenter usually.

      Not an indicator of Scotland at large.

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    3. IFS@11:08,
      Don’t you ever tire of spouting nonsense?

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    4. Don't you ever tire of trolling IFS?

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    5. the main immigrant problem is : the little englander, always and first

      McTrump says - deport the anglo and build a wall

      hit teams will chase them from their dens - edinburgh, borders, highlands - with giant net guns

      they are up here, sniffing for free prescriptions, free education and running county lines drugs gangs and we can't afford it

      they are just a different kind of people with alien cultural values and are better off with their own kind

      or else we become a mongrel, mulatto, race

      danish pirates : fuck off back to jutland - they've got windpower, a brewery and a pig farm now, go home, anglo man

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  24. Personally was IFS not invited? Surely an oversight.

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    1. Was he ever invited to meet Donna Summer at Budapest's Keleti Station? Bet he wasn't.

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  25. Not sure if ifs would be invited to his own funeral.

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    1. Anon@12:13&12:14, Still talking to yourself I see. You're fooling nobody.đŸ¤£

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  26. It would be better for society to give the current Scottish government the heave-ho and replace them with people with get-up-and-go.

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  27. Has there been any opinion polls on sacking teachers and closing libraries and closing swimming pools and stacking patients in ambulances??

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    1. They eat rumpled and watch a lot of telly.

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  28. Yes KC they are called Britnats like you. The British Empire is over.

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    1. As I expected IFS can’t answer my question @2:40pm.

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    2. I doubt anyone can as it doesn't exist.

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    3. KC no doubt at 4.33pm. What question would that be??????????

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  29. SNP has had an encouraging set of opinion polls and council elections, when you dig below the simple headlines. It points to a better 2026 election for SNP than many feared.

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    1. No it doesn't, says Mrs Ethel Crumble, as she piles more carcasses on the bonfire of shattered optimism. The old bitch.

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  30. Seems to me Reform might just be a flash in the pan so to speak.

    And if Musk does throw 100 million dollars at the UK elections it might have the opposite effect to what's intended. Curtice might be getting carried away!

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    1. I'd like to know if Curtice ever got carried away in a sedan chair

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  31. And in an actual election 62% wanted to remain in the eu and were ignored by England

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    1. And in the 2014 referendum, 55% voted to remain in the UK.
      Pathetically some still refuse to accept the result.

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    2. Land of Dope and Tory . Fool Britannia!

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  32. we need nigel farage to send all the wogs back to bongo bongo land, take back matabeleland and make england great again - the good old days, with an eton homosexual on a white horse instructing a kilted scotch to stab the barbarous orientals and negroids in the face

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    1. Does he drink Camp coffee. Fnarr fnarr...

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  33. Big news from respected polling firm OpinoSpa: 57% of Scots favour the resumption of sovereign independence.
    This is the highest figure since February 2021 (when it stood at 58%).

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    1. That's very much in line with the latest from Favesurv, I believe.

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    2. PollAndBangWe are showing something similar. God, this is depressing for me as a lifelong unionist. These polling companies are just so respected.

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    3. Noooooooooooooooo

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    4. Interestingly, the latest survey from DataSpank shows indy polling at 65%. It seems a bit of an outlier but this company does of course include don't knows as positive responses, an analysis method pioneered by respected woman of any branch of science you care to mention, Dr Roz Anderton.

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    5. A Find Out Now poll dosen’t even put support for independence at 57%!

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  34. SNP has done well and Labour poorly in recent council by elections.

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  35. From the Herald:

    "Heat pumps
    'Missed opportunity'. Only a third of Heat in Buildings £1.8 bn spent
    "

    Which presumably means there's £1.2 bn left for Robison to resume Universal Winter Fuel Payments tomorrow, and save the lives of a few hundred pensioners.

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    1. "From the Herald". Or as they say in St Petersburg, "From Pravda".

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  36. You use the herald as your reference? Presumably you know they can’t be trusted.

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    1. The figures come from the Scottish Government.

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    2. I suppose you've been on a plane too.

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