When it emerged that Stephen Flynn wanted to challenge a sitting SNP MSP for a place in Holyrood, but also wanted to retain his Westminster seat until the next general election if he was successful, I made the point that the one thing the SNP needed to avoid at all costs was a needless Westminster by-election in Aberdeen South. In other words, there had to be one of two outcomes: either a) Flynn had to be persuaded to abandon his plan to switch to Holyrood and instead rededicate himself to his important role as leader of the fourth largest group in the Commons (by far the most preferable option), or b) his critics had to accept his temporary dual mandate through gritted teeth.
The SNP making strategic mis-steps has become such an established pattern in recent years that it's no great surprise to me that after only a few short days they've managed to end up with precisely the worst-case scenario I warned against. They've persuaded Flynn to abandon his plan to have a dual mandate, but not to abandon his plan to switch to Holyrood. That makes a by-election almost inevitable - unless of course Flynn fails in his bid for Holyrood selection. But that seems highly unlikely, because we all know what this is really about - the leadership faction want Flynn in Holyrood so he can be the next leader. I was asked last night how long I thought John Swinney would stay on as leader, and I said "at least two more years, because the ruling faction want him to hang on until they can replace him with Stephen Flynn, preventing Kate Forbes from becoming First Minister is the one thing they care about above all else". And the person I was speaking to gave me a look of total bafflement and said "WHY?" I had to think about that for a moment, but eventually I said "well, because she's an evangelical Christian, and because she has certain private views about abortion...", and then I sort of tailed off and thought to myself "yeah, this doesn't really make any sense, does it?" The SNP have got to stop tearing their own house down for factional reasons.
What does surprise me, although it probably shouldn't, is that having needlessly got themselves into this by-election mess, the SNP are receiving a big pat on the back from certain sections of the independence movement. "Stephen Flynn got this one wrong, but the important thing is he's accepted that and put things right." Well, no, actually, he's now got things even more wrong than before. Far, far more wrong. It reminds me of when prominent independence supporters both inside and outside the SNP were enthusiastically urging people in Rutherglen to sign the recall petition against Margaret Ferrier. "Here's a helpful map showing you where you can sign, and don't forget to wrap up warm, now!" Those sterling "efforts" led to a landmark by-election gain for Labour, which in turn generated momentum that led to the SNP's defeat at the general election.
Make no mistake - if the SNP stupidly bring about a by-election in Aberdeen South, they're likely to lose it and see their representation in the Commons cut from nine seats to eight. It's not a natural SNP constituency. Flynn only held it in July because the unionist vote was split down the middle, but in a by-election context it's likely that unionist voters would coalesce more behind one party, possibly the Tories. Heaven only knows what momentum that might generate and what the long-term consequences might be.
As a SNP member I think we should be asked for our views on dual mandates and the rest. An unnecessary diversion.
ReplyDeleteI wish “Independence” for our country. All decisions surrounding this should not lose this mantra.
What are you going to do about it, then? The last 10 years of living history haven't cast the SNP membership in a kind light. You're treated like mushrooms—kept in the dark and fed shite—and just keep on taking it.
DeleteThe reason the leadership faction despise Kate is that she’s not loyal to Nicola’s continuing guidance. (Not to mention her and the hubby’s needs to remain out of pokey.) In power politics: fidelity is everything. That’s how we got Humza the patently Useless, Swinney the janitor, and how Flynn is indeed guaranteed. F*** the seat, goes the reasoning, keeping an iron grip on the party for this faction is all that matters.
ReplyDeleteI mean, just think of the horrors if Team Nicola ever lost control. Scotland might even wind up leaving the UK!
The party’s criminally fiddled finances are a direct threat to Mr. and Ms. Sturgeon’s continued liberty, let alone their legacy. That’s how vital it is to keep the leadership in trusted, complicit hands. Make no mistake: they will fight like their lives depend on it.
DeleteStarmer about to wage war on benefits but not the Royal benefits. Charlieboy getting his main residence Bucky house done up at a cost of £369 million. Small beer compared to the billions spent on the Palace of Westminster.
Delete100% correct.
DeleteIFS you need to realise your benefits lifestyle has to be paid for by someone who works? It’s not unreasonable to ask you to work if you can.
DeleteBenefit fraud is pursued heavily by both Labour and Tories. Always has been. Yet billions in benefits are unclaimed because of lack of information and being shamed to claim by the anti benefits propaganda streamed out by politicians and the media. Meanwhile tax fraud continues almost unchecked because politicians don't want to upset their donors. And what limited pursuit there is is hampered by lack of staff and resources.
DeleteAnon at 12.56pm - you need to realise you are a prick. You don't know me so you have no idea of my lifestyle. My point was juxtaposing the war on benefits with the easy access to money for Royalty and politicians in Westminster. But you anon being a total prick take a stupid shot at me.
DeleteWe know you are unemployed/unemployable you have said so before.
DeleteAnon troll at 3.02pm - liar. Beats me how these trolls have any self respect.
DeleteNot a lie if you've previously boasted about it.
DeleteAnon troll at 3.57pm. going for a new record of consecutive lies.
DeleteThere should be no shame in claiming benefits which you are rightfully due.
DeleteAnon troll at 5.35pm. do you work for the DWP? There is plenty of shame in blatant lying but pricks like you don't do shame. What's up - troll - run out of SNP carrots to munch on.
DeleteWhy on earth do you think Flynn is loyal to Sturgeon? Blackford and Thewliss were Sturgeon’s choices for WM leader - Flynn beat them both. The Bute House Agreement was Sturgeon’s deal, Flynn got it punted.
DeleteAnd it’s the Sturgeon clique screaming loudest against Flynn standing for Holyrood.
The absolute hypocrisy of people saying SNP MSPs are useless grifters with no principles then crying when one of the aforementioned useless grifter gets challenged for her seat. Boo-hoo poor anonymous Audrey, If she’s any good she’ll win the selection. Otherwise that’s democracy
Stephen Flynn should be at HR at least he is stepping up and it will be a generational change which is badly needed.
I used to wonder how IFS had the time to post/troll so frequently. Hadn’t realised he was unemployed. Nothing wrong with that in itself. The abuse of benefits is minuscule as part of the overall benefits budget. It is also dwarfed by tax evasion and tax avoidance.
DeleteExactly, as much as I've had disagreements with IFS. I wouldn't have a go at someone because they were unemployed or had a disability or something like that.
DeleteAnon at 7.12pm and Scottish Skier at 7.51pm - pathetic people with pathetic lies. Is that all you can do with your time. No wonder you are happy for Sturgeon to smear Salmond. Low lifes.
DeleteSkier you have not had disagreements with me you just post lies and propaganda.
So you are not unemployed? Just say that and the position is clarified.
DeleteAnon troll 10.36pm post your cv on SGP.
DeleteCorrection - 10.36am.
DeleteSteven Flynn doesn't know the word independence.
DeleteIFS. Have you been asked to post your C V? If not, why would you ask it of someone else? Simple question. Are you unemployed? I am employed. Easy question, easy answer. In your own time. A M or P M. Makes no odds.
DeleteFor God's sake, James! Get a hold of the site. It has now descended into a pathetic rant against IFS for his employment status, real or imagined. What has that to do with politics or independence. Who wants to read this childish drivel?
DeleteAnon at 1.02pm - so you don't want publish your cv - what are you hiding anon? While you are at it - what religion are you? Do you like porridge for breakfast? Just answer these questions and your position is clarified until I think up some more questions. It's about time anons like you answered questions. Put your carrots🥕down and answer.
DeleteAnon at 3.27pm - sadly it's trolls just trying to ruin the site. Mainly from WGD. They are seriously pissed off with me because I have been proved right about Sturgeon and her gang and their teeny weeny egos cannae handle it.
DeleteCorrection at 2.03pm - must stop rushing posts - the job keeps getting in the way😀
DeleteIFS, 🤣🤣🤣. But seriously, James needs to stamp down on this sort of puerile nonsense as it does the site no favours.
DeleteAnon troll at 1.02pm you have not answered any of my questions. You are a bad troll - 2 hours on the naughty step. Do you have your SNP carrots with your porridge in the morning? I have heard the SNP carrots are absolutely delicious with anything.
DeleteWhy are so many people have a go at IFS for being unemployed? It's not a illegal to not have a job.
DeleteWhat I found somewhat amusing: The SNP made similar moves to ensure that Angus Robertson could make the switch from Westminster to Holyrood in 2021 & removing Joanna Cherry from being a threat to his future leadership bid. But he managed to balls that up and didn't stand when the time came.
ReplyDeletePoor Shug. The security services didn't get as much game from him as his wife. Goes to show the necessity of casting a wide net.
DeleteJoanna Cherry, the yoons favourite nationalist.
DeleteAngus Robertson was being set up to be the future leader, what happened?
DeleteThis:
Deletehttps://www.holyrood.com/news/view,angus-robertson-faces-conference-backlash-over-israel-meeting
His London handlers played him a bit too hard.
Anon@5:16, His wife happened 🤔ðŸ¤ðŸ˜‰
DeleteThe SNP really don't come out of this well. If they allow dual mandates now then it would become abundantly clear that they introduced a new rule last time to vindictively stop Joanna Cherry from standing for Holyrood.
ReplyDeleteOne rule for some and a different rule for others. All the while insulting members who have never been given a say on how they would like to select candidates for elections.
The SNP under Sturgeon's gang have always applied double standards. Patrick Grady - they tried to cover up his sexual assault because he was in the gang. What other organisation would give their recently resigned leader a bunch of flowers after being arrested and questioned for eight hours over possible embezzlement of funds from the same organisation. In contrast Michelle Thomson, not in the gang, suspended for two years by Sturgeon based on nothing.
DeleteI guess this is some of the dirty stuff that David Francis is quite relaxed about. Did you chuck in some money for the flowers David?
Why are you all so concerned about the SNP when Alba was specifically set up to destroy it? why aren't you all happy ? there seems no pleasing you Alba punters
ReplyDeleteDr Jim at 3.15pm - Alba was set up to achieve Scottish independence because the SNP had been taken over by the British state. People like you supporting agents of the British state in the SNP are responsible for the SNP's woes.
DeleteAnd Alba has failed completely, likewise IPS. These wee diddy parties are kidding themselves on.
DeleteAnon at 5.09pm - not big on accuracy are you. IPS🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
DeleteA diddy party, however they arrange their name, who got 57 votes in an East Lothian by election 😂
DeleteI like the look of Sovereignty. I'll vote for them at HR26 if I have the opportunity.
DeleteAnon at 5 20pm says " a diddy party " as distinct from a plain diddy like anon. At least the diddy party is not run by Britnats like the SNP. Who is up next to get their FM pension from Sturgeon's gang? Clearly Flynn fancies a bit of the cake. What about Sturgeon's other pal SAS? - Captain woke. Surely Shirley willnae miss out on the FM pension.
DeleteJohn McBarry, you and about two others will vote for them !
DeleteIf Alba was set up to achieve independence by Alex Salmond why didn't he spend his time doing that instead of trying to retake the party he ran away from after 2014?
DeleteNicola Sturgeon was doing too well and Salmond was chosen for the job by the Brits again
Dr Jim says at 12.02am - " Nicola Sturgeon was doing too well ...." so well that she ran away claiming she was tired and the next thing Sturgeon and her husband are being investigated for embezzlement.
DeleteIncredibly WGD numpties like Dr Jim kept saying that international organisations would be queuing up to offer Sturgeon top jobs. Nearly two years later how many job offers has she had - 1. A job on an election night TV panel, 2. Writing her " I don't recall " memoirs which is still to appear and 3. An appearance at some comedy show. If you are an independence supporter there is nothing funny about Sturgeon's betrayal of all who voted in many elections for Indyref2.
Jimbo is getting annoyed that her book willnae be in his Xmas stocking on Xmas morning.
How do you know what offers she has had?
DeleteI don't - do you anon at 12.57pm. So you think she may have had an offer of a high flying job from the UN, for example, and turned it down? Perhaps the polis have told her not to leave the country and all these wonderful job offers are sitting waiting for the polis to declare her free of investigation over embezzling the organisation she once led.
DeleteWhether or not she is cleared of any embezzlement the fact remains she was charged with delivering Indyref2 and failed. More than that she actually took action to make it illegal to deliver the gold standard referendum she declared in many elections she would deliver. A failure or a fraud. Disnae matter nobody will touch her with a barge poll - well maybe if there is a position going in North Korea.
Maybe you are just another nicophant unhappy you won't be getting her book for Xmas. There is always next year.
You raised the issue you muppet, not me. You really are as stupid as you seem.
DeleteAnd you asked IFS the question. You really are as hypocritical as you seem.
DeleteAnon at 4.15pm - there is always a Silver Lining. When Sturgeon brings her book out next year you will be able to get it for a £1 next Xmas in the fiction section.
DeleteOt - I see in the Sunday National the Head of Labour In Inverclyde Council apparently lives in a house in Kilbarchan now owned by a “ labour” Lord and who just happens to have been appointed to oversee a new funding group in the same area without any interview. I am annoyed that I was passed over. I suppose I should donate to the Labour Party first. No mention in the bbc web page although Ally McCoist has an incurable condition affecting his hand it seems.
ReplyDeleteSome issues re the property sale and re sale with free rented property? Further investigations needed.
DeleteBloomin eck ... everybody's angry the day!
ReplyDeleteThey terrify me. They're nuts!
DeleteIf reform had not run in Scotland the SNP would have been reduced to 4 MP's.
ReplyDeleteReform will keep running in Scotland. The nutjob right is on a roll, worldwide.
DeleteAnd Stu Campbell is lovin' it.
DeleteReform is an English party, it has no relevance in Scotland apart from right wing loonies (in that sense you can see why Campbell would support it).
DeleteALBA didn’t work so he moves on.
Deletegenuinely impressed with independence for scotland's indefatigability
ReplyDeleteIf they were on Downtown Abbey they wouldn't be sitting down to dinner with a marquis. No way, Hosay.
DeleteIt’s easier when you don’t work.
Delete3.00pm. You lazy bastard get out there and work. Rachel Reeves needs your taxes.
DeleteI think if Flynn had stuck to his clueless demand for 4 job part-time representation the SNP wouldn't lose the 1 seat in a by-election - but they'd lose a lot more, and at Holyrood in 2024. They'd have been wiped.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, with Scotland having beaten Australia 27-13, there's no change in world rankings, but they're nearer Argentina.
ReplyDelete1 South Africa 92.78
2 Ireland 90.78
3 New Zealand 90.36 (+0.27)
4 France 88.51 (+0.43)
5 Argentina 84.97 (-0.43)
6 Scotland 83.34 (+0.65)
7 England 82.31
8 Australia 81.52 (-0.65)
9 Fiji 80.07
10 Italy 78.64 (-0.27)
11 Wales 74.01
12 Georgia 73.85
See nothing wrong with dual mandates.
ReplyDeleteIf you're voted in by the people that's all the matters.
Unless your name is Joanna Cherry or Douglas Ross then dual mandates are abhorrent and should be consigned to history.
DeleteFrom someone close to the constituency concerned, however popular Stephen apoears to becwuthin the SNP there is no guarantee that he will get the nomination to fight this seat.
ReplyDeleteBut if he doesn't, they would still find a way. Another constituency, or the list, or both.
Delete"they"
ReplyDeleteYes, they. The leadership faction who want Flynn at Holyrood. Do try to keep up.
DeleteOoh, get her! The Duchess if Duke Street!
DeleteThe WGD numpty Scottish Skier thinks a petition will mean a new UK election.
ReplyDeleteThe numpty Skier posts this:-
" 10% of the registered electorate is needed to trigger a recall in a constituency, so 4.82m signatures on this would be the equivalent. No reason why that should not trigger a new UK GE. "
No reason says the numpty 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. This is the type of dross that Skier posts on WGD when he is not posting his drivel as Declan on SGP.
And what would that fanciful ruse win us? Oh yeah, another shade of British colonial government that says Scotland can get tae fuck.
DeleteThe only business we have in Westminster is slamming the door on our way out.
Skier spends a lot of time telling everyone who'll listen that a WM GE is an irrelevance to Scots but now he wants another one!?
DeleteI guess the party he regularly claims to help fund losing 39 MPs still hurts.
What do they seriously hope to achieve with another General Election?
DeleteIs the aim to bring the Tories back to power or have Reform in Government?
For clarity the petition will not bring about another election. It needs sufficient Labour MPs to vote for it and they ain't about to give up their seat on the gravy train anytime soon.
DeleteI agree with the posts at 2.07am and 5.01am.
And your drivel isn’t any better.
ReplyDeleteIs yours, tosser?
DeleteOoooh handbags.
DeleteThe SNP should not be in the business of reducing their tactical scope.
ReplyDeleteI realise a defacto referendum is not currently on the cards but those rubbishing it as an idea, and dual mandates fall into that category.. trying to tell me the FM wouldn't stand forward in this case?
Stewart Mcdonald etc's quoted rubbishing the idea during a time where it may have been fruitless , may tie the hands of a future FM who may want to fruitfully use it as a tactic.
We simply should not be blocking tactical scope. We are not supposed to be a run of the mill political party..think some have forgot that (or been worn down by 20 years of devolved govt..as important as the day to day also is).
He's essentially advocating to keep us in permanent limbo as it will never be in any futures UK Governments interests to ever allow another referendum under any circumstances and due to the daft Supreme Court action there's nothing we can do to force them into it.
DeleteYou do not appear to understand the point of the Court of Session action or the legal implications of the judgement. The decision itself was never in any doubt.
DeleteIt achieved nothing, if for nothing else the SNP should have just pressed ahead with a referendum and forced the UK Government to challenge it in court.
DeleteThe optics alone of the UK Government going to court to deny Scotland's democracy would have greatly assisted the cause. Instead the SNP willingly went to the court themselves to confirm that it's the UK Government who have the control over future referendums.
Hi I'm the original poster at 11.39.
DeleteDo you mean me? I understand the legal ruling. I'm suggesting if there is any skin left in independence ever rearing it's head again its almost certainly going to require a defacto expression at the ballot box to apply democratic rather than legal pressure.
For any person in the SNP to dismiss this for all future SNP leaders, rather than the current situation, is very poor indeed.
Anon at 1.01. No. I was referring to Anon at 12.04. Sorry for any confusion. I am I agreement with you.
DeleteGet a grip you anons - try and identify yourself properly/consistently and address who you are referring to at the start of your post.
DeleteE.g. anon at 12.48pm - what Court of Session ( an Edinburgh court) judgement are you referring to? Do you not mean the court in London called the UK Supreme Court?
am sure if a defacto vote of Ukrainians wanting EU membership was called without the Eastern Ukraine taking part, it would all fine and well to Mcdonald MP for Kiev.
DeleteFunnily enough it’s only idiot you that was confused by a typo. AM PM ring any bells thicko? Cue ah but from Inactive for Scotland.
DeleteWho is ISF? Is he different from Independence for Scotland? Is he really Yestoindyref2? We have a right to know? Who can tell us? And who is K C? Or Dr Jim! So many questions. So few answers.
DeleteMc Donald is a devolutionist. He always talks down routes to independence. That's the problem with the SNP too many happy being Wishart style mouth pieces.
ReplyDeleteHe may be an independence supporter but it's wrong headed to bad mouth potential tactics to further pressure on London to agree a new vote. A defacto referendum at an election is a valid way for Scottish people to demonstrate their feelings on it, it's legal and although it doesn't have a binding result, is a legitimate tactic in pressuring an actual referendum to be accepted.
DeleteSaying thing now which can be quoted back to you in 10 years time has already caused a headache.
Really daft to give the opposition ready quotes. Poor stuff.
Even if you accepted the notion Scotland needs to be polling 60% in favour before a vote is pushed for..
DeleteYou need to know how you're going to action the "pushing"!
A defacto vote would have to be part of the war gaming.
60%? No. Simple majority. No argument. Only unionists advocate 60 %.
DeleteYeah it's ridiculous can just see them thinking "We've moved the goalposts and these dafties have fallen for it!
Delete"Will we give them a referendum if they reach 60%?"
"lol nope, but it's funny that they think we would"
50% +1 is enough. England ignores 62% Scots vote in its no Brexit vote but accepts is English 52%
DeleteI don't accept the notion...
DeleteI said "even if you did".
there should be an annual referendum and if there is not a super majority of 60% of voters, then we revert to the original nations, Scotland and England.
Delete- like an annual marriage
Good to see WGD advocating the confrontational approach that I and some others have been pushing for for several years. Regrettably, SNP do not have the balls for it. And no other party has meaningful enough support to help in a campaign of confrontation. So depressing considering the momentum the Indy movement had even five years ago. If there is no confrontation, there will be no progress towards Independence.
ReplyDeleteNice to see Nicola Sturgeon out and about saying that she thought the Yes side had very low chance of success in 2014 and that it was rational that Scots voted to remain as part of the union.
ReplyDeleteHere we go, Nicola, Nicola ! All her fault. Blame the folk who didn’t vote, those that believed the unionists that Scotland would be thrown out of the EU and the rest.
ReplyDeleteNicola herself is saying she thought the Yes side wouldn't win...
DeleteWhen the leaders of the campaign at the time don't believe in our chances of success that's not a good sign.
Realistic. Move on.
DeleteShe knew YES wouldn't win because Salmond made sure it wouldn't
DeleteDo you think she stopped talking to him just because he was a sex pest alone?
Look at the footage every time he came near her to try his usual big sloppy kiss, she physically ducked her face out of the way
That relationship was over long before Salmond's fake British controlled referendum
Defo a yoon troll just wanting a reaction.
DeleteHere's something interesting. That GE petition which personally I can't be bothered signing because what's the point, Labour, Tory, the animals looked from one pig at the trough of human despond to another and went "snort".
ReplyDeletehttps://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=700143
England looks like maybe 4.8% on average apart from London at less than 2%. And Scotland is less than 3%. London and Scotland often seem to be similar - who gives a stuff who's in power at Westminster?
Labour in power means Scotland's prison guards put on their red uniforms.
ReplyDeleteTories in power means Scotland's prison guards put on blue uniforms.
Reform in power means Scotland's prison guards put on snappy turquoise and white uniforms but expect more violent beatings.
Scotland is England's colony. The gold standard referendum was a Westminster con aided and abetted by people like Sturgeon/Blackford/Wishart and Kavanagh.
I like you're messages they're funny and they make me laugh
DeleteSometimes I giggle but feel a bit guilty. Shouldn’t really laugh at the poor soul. He needs help.
Delete9.12 If anyone needs help it’s you. You fill up this blog with your inane trolling.
DeleteWhat age are you really? Sturgeon/Blackford/Wishart and Kavanagh! It is you and folk like you that prevent any progress as we move to 2025.
ReplyDeleteC’mon- how do we get independence by next week with you leading!
Anon at 5.45pm - what is it with you people. What age are you numpty? Just how do I prevent any progress to independence? Go on - now is your opportunity to be more than a troll. Put forward a reasoned post.
DeleteAnon at 5.45pm - you don't even have the capability to put your post in the correct location. Numpty.
DeleteDo you eat a lot of grapefruit?
DeleteThrough the letterbox you mean?
DeleteI asked the numpty troll to put forward a reasoned post and the above is the best he can do. Speaks for itself.
DeleteAye numptyheid. Divert away. You have no plan.
ReplyDeleteHe has no plan,
Deletehe has no brain,
he’s thick as mince,
an online pain.
6.47pm Do you have a plan anon?
Delete9.15pm Do you have a plan anon?
Anon at 6.41pm - I never said I had a plan. Why do you think I should have a plan what gave you that idea? The combined brains of the SNP who are paid to have a plan do not have one but you expect me to do their job for them.
DeleteI suggest you address your question to John REDACTOR MAN Swinney, First Minister for cover ups.
Ifsv We knowsyou have no plan. You are a disruptor, devoid of ideas yet constantly tell others how they fail. Help them out ! Give them your wisdom! lol ps, I suppose that’s how your party will never be in power anywhere.
ReplyDelete