Tuesday, September 17, 2024

It was a "festival of democracy", not a trauma: ten years on, YouGov poll shows the Scottish public resoundingly believe holding the independence referendum was the right thing to do, and that they want another referendum to be held within the next ten years

Unsurprisingly, this week's tenth anniversary of the indyref has brought about a flurry of polls on independence, which is quite helpful because for the last two months we've had relatively limited information on the impact of the general election on Yes support.  Of the three new polls I'm aware of, two are positive for Yes and suggest that there is a higher level of support for independence now than there was on referendum day a generation ago.  The exception is YouGov, which is quite like old times, really, because during the long indyref campaign YouGov were consistently the least favourable online polling firm for Yes due to the notorious 'Kellner Correction' that was artificially imposed on the headline numbers because Peter Kellner refused to believe the evidence of his own eyes and insisted there had to be some sort of bug that meant No was further ahead than the raw results suggested.

I'm not aware of any similar 'correction' that YouGov are making now that would suppress the Yes vote in their polls, although it can't be completely ruled out that something is going on that we don't know about.  Their new poll has No ahead by 56% to 44%, which would be the first sign of what I feared at the time of the general election, ie. that there would be a temporary drop in Yes support due to a Labour honeymoon effect.  Frankly, though, I don't take that notion too seriously anymore, because the other two polls suggest that Yes support has held up admirably.  More in Common appear to have No ahead by around 52% to 48%, although that's my own rough recalculation from the figures with Don't Knows left in - I can't find the definitive numbers in the data tables.  With Opinium the No lead appears to be a wafer-thin 51% to 49%.

Although the YouGov poll is on the whole disappointing, there are a couple of really encouraging results within it.  You might remember that during the indyref campaign, most people were finding it such an exhilarating experience (it led, after all, to the highest voter turnout since the introduction of universal suffrage!) that unionist politicians and commentators felt compelled to embrace the holding of a referendum as an overwhelmingly positive thing, and the campaign itself as a "festival of democracy" (Tom Holland's words on the eve of polling day) that the rest of the UK needed to learn from.  But within a year or two, the exact same people were shamelessly gaslighting us by trying to implant false memories that the campaign had instead been a national trauma on the scale of a small war and that families and friendships had been torn apart by it.  The YouGov poll suggests the gaslighting has deservedly failed, and that by a resounding margin of 52% to 33%, respondents feel that holding the referendum was the right thing to do.  They also, by a narrower margin of 43% to 40%, want a second referendum to be held within the next ten years, although there's more hostility than in some previous polls to the idea of holding it within the next year or the next five years.

The poll also shows that voters would overwhelmingly back independence (the Yes advantage would be 56% to 32%, or roughly 64% to 36% without Don't Knows) if it meant Scotland would rejoin the EU - which, let's be honest, it probably would.  This suggests that, contrary to John Swinney's dismal claims in the Salmond/Sturgeon documentary, the SNP missed a trick by not bringing the independence question to a head after the EU referendum.  The mistake was not, as Swinney believes, to push too hard but to not push anything like hard enough, and to back off at the first sign of any resistance from 'Tyrannical Theresa'.  Even now, it appears the window of opportunity to use voters' horror at Brexit to win independence has not yet closed, but clearly there is no prospect whatever of taking advantage of that opportunity for as long as Swinney remains SNP leader.

Also of interest is that a greater proportion of people who support independence say they feel strongly about their views (90%) than those who oppose independence (78%).  That leaves open the possibility of a significant future net swing to Yes.

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34 comments:

  1. We've missed several wasted opportunities over the last decade, but Brexit has to be the biggest.

    Scotland voted to remain in the EU and, as Ian Blackford often said, we were "dragged out of the EU against our will." It was a clear material change in circumstances that should have been used to push for independence.

    After the vote, we also had Theresa May leading one of the weakest governments in living memory. Westminster was in chaos, and the SNP had the numbers to make a difference in that Parliament.

    Faced with such a weak Prime Minister, any 'Party of Independence' worth its salt, would have taken full advantage of the situation. May was desperate to avoid a no-deal Brexit and was willing to make almost any compromise to get a deal through the Commons. The SNP could have used that desperation and their number advantage for Scotland's benefit.

    I'll never understand why the SNP, instead of highlighting a choice between two futures, chose to try and overturn the democratic wishes of the rest of the UK. The case for independence was clear, yet we got a "Stop Brexit" campaign instead of an independence one. To this day, it still baffles me how ridiculously stupid that was...

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    1. "The SNP could have used that desperation and their number advantage for Scotland's benefit."

      Not in the way you mean. The idea that there was a deal to be done with the Tories which would have produced a referendum in return for supporting May's Brexit deal is just Wings propaganda, it doesn't stand up to the remotest scrutiny. May wouldn't have agreed to a deal like that and she would have instantly been toast even if she had. But the bottom line is that Sturgeon shouldn't have backed off. She should have pushed forward to a referendum and dared the Tories to try to block her in the courts.

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    2. At the time as well the UK Government's attention would have been divided.

      I would also imagine that during the negotiations with the EU the EU side would be noticing what was happening in Scotland as well.

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    3. On the one hand the SNP were saying Scotland's democratic vote to remain should be respected but Sturgeon was trying to overthrow England and Wales vote to leave. A ridiculous position to argue from.

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  2. Some interesting in depth figures from the More in Common poll.

    Percentage of different age groups who support independence,

    16-24. 49%
    25-34. 65%
    35-44 40%
    45-54 36%
    55-64. 35%
    65-74 37%
    74+. 15%

    Quite alarming how support tapers off as people get older.

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    1. Yes, KC, really alarming for you that the people with their whole lives ahead of them are the ones who back Yes. (Not that I've ever believed in the demographic inevitability argument, but who am I to stop you walking into a trap of your own making?)

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    2. Also a little concerning that for 16-24 year olds it's only 49%.

      The 25-34 year olds were the youth demographic during the 2014 independence campaign, hence the likely reason why they're the highest percentage.

      That kind of indicates that enough hasn't been done to ensure that the next generation is as politically engaged as the one who came before.

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    3. "Also a little concerning that for 16-24 year olds it's only 49%."

      When I have a moment I'll check the data tables, but no, I'm not at all concerned because you are presumably doing your usual thing of leaving in the Don't Knows, KC. Which would of course mean that Yes are in the lead among under-25s. Correct?

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  3. Unless something drastic happens (though I can't rule that out looking at recent history) I really don't see The SNP replacing Swinney as Leader before the 2026 election.

    I hope I'm wrong but I can see calls for alternative strategies falling on death ears and us just being told to vote SNP 1&2 to keep the dream alive.

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    1. Leaving aside the point of pedantry that there is no such thing as "1 & 2" in an AMS election, you may be right, but on the other hand I struggle to imagine Swinney hanging around for years *after* 2026.

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    2. Oh I definitely see Swinney resigning not long after.

      My concern is more unless something changes soon there's a real risk of the SNP losing power in 2026.

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    3. They really can't pin all their hopes on Labour becoming more unpopular between now & 2026. Would be a dire state of affairs to go into an election essentially asking "What Party do you hate the least?"

      Independence still allows the chance to go into an election offering real positive change to the status quo. Without that I don't think the desire for change bodes well for a Party that will have been in power for 19 years at that point.

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    4. Labour is going to win in 2026 ? After Reeves' austerity measures? Aye right !

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    5. James, not pedantry but accuracy. It pisses me off when people post that.

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  4. Questions of intentionality are obviously difficult, but why do people think Sturgeon missed these chances to pursue independence? It was noted above the crucial opportunity she had after Brexit.

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    1. It's recently been revealed that Swinney advised her to not push for independence after the Brexit vote in 2016. In his view it was too soon since the 2014 referendum to go for it again.

      She obviously could have ignored his view though.

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    2. The issue with that though is that it was never publicly said at the time that it was too soon to go for it again. Sturgeon and the SNP heavily implied that a plan was in the works and that independence was on the cards in the near future, we only needed to keep the faith.

      We were strung along for years, assisted by countless "Get Ready for Indyref2" & "Game On" front covers of The National. It was always just over the next horizon. That's why so many are pissed off as for a time they trusted that was the case but it later became clear that Sturgeon never had a secret plan as suggested.

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    3. And then she went and ran the boat aground with that awful “Supreme” Court ruling. A case prepared so badly you couldn’t make it up.

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  5. The Nicola stalkers are back out. They are sad individuals. Move on.

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    1. By backing her close friend and Deputy who gave her terrible advice for 9 years?

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    2. Today marks the 10 year anniversary of the 2014 referendum. It's literally the best day to look back and self reflect on why after 10 years we're still so far away from achieving the goal.

      That after Brexit, Boris Johnson, Covid Parties and a cost of living crisis those opportunities haven't been utilised and progress has stalled. The only way to "move on" is to learn from our mistakes and stop repeating them.

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    3. And our mistake was?

      Trusting Nicola, and her successors I say. Their actions proved that when push comes to shove the have zero interest in Independence itself.

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    4. Such nonsense. Only you are pure and supports independence!!🤣

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    5. How is it nonsense?

      What was the SNP's policy under Nicola Sturgeon?: Win an election and then ask Westminster nicely for a Section 30 Order for a referendum.

      We then had a promise of a 'no ifs no buts there will be a referendum held on Thursday 19th October 2023'... which clearly didn't happen.

      The SNP's policy under John Swinney then became: Win an election and open negotiations to seek democratic effect to Scotland becoming an independent country (aka ask Westminster nicely for a Section 30 Order for a referendum).

      They keep repeating the same mistakes, how can we "move on" when nothing has changed?

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    6. Swinney trots out today the same old gradualist shit that we must get support higher ( no actual figure) and at the same time Keith Brown, deputy leader of the SNP is saying today what many people have been saying for years, namely no Westminster gov will EVER agree to a sec 30. Never ever, ever.

      What a useless shower Sturgeon's gang are and they are doing it on purpose.

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  6. To be fair to Swinney he is doing a good job as FM. Hit the ground running.

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    1. Yeah one of the first things he did was wrongly back Michael Matheson in the iPad scandal and then lead the SNP into the worst electoral defeat since the last time he was Leader.

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    2. When the bar's that low, you wonder what a bad performance must look like…

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    3. Indeed. Backing Matheson, and continuing to back him, was a major mistake. This issue alone continues to damage the SNP.

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    4. Correction he hit the wall running. Swinney is a useless gradualist. This amounts to being a Unionist and a phoney independence supporter. An older version of Yousaf.
      ' Nicola, I really think we need more time to think over this independence thingy. Let's not rush into things.'

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  7. Yeh sure, everyone I speak too raises the issue all the time. Not. Issues such as the winter fuel payment is one of the issues now -even by my “ My faither and grandfaither supported labour so will I “ elderly in-laws are bealin.

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  8. I don't understand the logic behind asking ' how far in the future' do you want an Indy referendum. In a world of politics that sees several ruling governments rise and fall within a normal Parliamentary term, (Brexit, recession, cost of living, far right riots) it suggests we are living in predictable times. 10 years ago, the same result was returned ' in next 10 years'. We end up in a revolving 10 year cycle, without anyone actually knowing what ' in 10 years' looks like or where the magic 10 year figure comes from, other than to kick the decision down the road. Swinney would love that! Does anyone think this man is going to inspire a country and its people to Independence, even if he was given 50 years!. We are just wasting more precious years. He will be removed either in the lead up to 2026 or just after, so why are we all playing silly buggers with the reality.

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  9. Stuart Campbell is going to liberate Scotland
    Lol.

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