Saturday, July 6, 2024

Some thoughts on how the voting system severely distorted the election outcome in Scotland

If the UK really is going to ludicrously persist with first-past-the-post in an increasingly multi-party system and with increasingly perverse outcomes, I would suggest there's a special responsibility on the media to explain to viewers, listeners and readers that there is a disconnect between how people actually vote and the election results that are produced, and also to explain the reason that is happening.  Robert McKenzie, who was one of the resident psephologists along with David Butler for the BBC's election results shows between the 1950s and 1979, was extremely good at doing that - he would just bluntly say "these results are nothing like how people voted, here is what the result would have been if we had a proportional system like every other country in western Europe".  Nobody is really filling that role now, except maybe for John Curtice, but he only appeared very sparingly on the results show.  

As you know, I wrote constituency profiles for The National over the course of the campaign, and almost on a daily basis I would sit down, look at another central belt constituency, and say to myself "ah, it's yet another one of those", in other words a constituency where the SNP were around twenty points ahead of Labour in 2019 and thus would lose the seat this time even if Labour were a few points behind the SNP nationally.  If Labour were a few points ahead of the SNP, which is what was actually happening, all of those seats would go, and by quite some distance, and it would look like a bloodbath even though that didn't reflect how people actually voted.  

If there have been a few half-hearted attempts in the media to explain this inbuilt advantage for Labour and to put the result in its proper perspective, they haven't been anything like sufficient.  So that's partly the topic for my piece in The National analysing the election outcome, and entitled "For every six Scottish Labour voters, there were five for SNP".  I'm not sure if it's on the main part of the website, but you can certainly find it in the print edition or in the digital edition (page 26) if you're a subscriber.

When I wrote it, I was trying to squeeze in a few introductory points about the wider UK result, but if I'd left those points in I wouldn't have had much room left for anything else, so once again, as a sort of "DVD extra", here is the part I cut out...

"The one-third of UK voters who actually voted Labour in this general election must be congratulated on getting the government they voted for.  The two-thirds of people who did not vote Labour were, however, not quite so fortunate.  This is a familiar objection to the legitimacy of first-past-the-post election results that has been heard since the 1970s when the share of the vote for the winning party typically started drifting well below 50%, so we know from past precedent that the problem will be shoved under the carpet by the new government, the official opposition and much of the media.  

But nevertheless 34% is yet another new all-time low for the winning vote share, and it must raise the question of where the cut-off point lies, beyond which it would not be possible to maintain the fiction that the will of the people is being enacted.  Commentators presumably wouldn't be able to claim with a straight face that Starmer had an overwhelming landslide mandate if he'd won it on 25% of the vote, so there must be a magic figure somewhere in the narrow band between 25% and 34% where the perverse effects of the electoral system become acceptable in polite society.

Another fiction that is skating on very thin ice is the notion that the changes Keir Starmer made to the Labour party, and his ruthless treatment of MPs and candidates who had ideological disagreements with him, were necessary to rebuild the trust and support of voters.  In fact, although Labour has undoubtedly changed out of all recognition since Jeremy Corbyn's period as leader, that hasn't happened in a way that has made the party any more popular.  Starmer's 34% vote share is six percentage points lower than the one achieved by Corbyn in his first general election in 2017, and is very similar to the 32% result in 2019 that was supposedly so intolerable that it was used to justify Corbyn's expulsion from the party.  As Professor John Curtice has been at pains to point out, Labour's support actually fell in Wales and remained more or less static in England, with the modest GB-wide boost being caused only by the recovery in Scotland.  Starmer's apologists have accordingly shifted their ground, arguing that Labour's shift to the right was never intended to increase vote share, but was instead aimed at playing the voting system and ensuring the most efficient geographical distribution of support.  But that just makes clear to voters that it was never actually about them, and that they were mere bystanders in the process of government selection."

56 comments:

  1. Remarkable Reform UK vote in Scotland.

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    1. Not really. Look at the census figures that show people's cou try of origin.

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    2. I second that . Here in Moray we've got huge numbers of recent settlers-80% Britnat , normally Tories but some switched to Reform . Ironically that helped the SNP beat the Tories in both E and W Moray. And to dump the Dross!
      Alba gu brath!

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    3. If recent trends continue its unlikely that pro independence candidates will be elected in the future in places like Argyll, Moray and most of the Highlands. Unfortunately.

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    4. Argyll has a snp MP and the council is now run by a snp coalition

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    5. Not really. We have thousands of White Settlers and a still large Orange Goose Stepping Brigade in Scotland.

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  2. Labour’s poor % showing in Wales surely had a lot to do with very recent history of Labour running their devolved government.

    Brian

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    1. Hmmm, maybe, but the result in England was so similar that I doubt it. Maybe a marginal effect from the Vaughan Gething saga.

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  3. Reform U K go down well with the July marching brigade knuckle draggers.

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  4. Can you ever see a scenario where the voting system changes from FPTP to PR? (actual PR not Alternative Vote).

    If FPTP was ever changed then neither Labour or the Conservatives would be likely to ever win a majority again. It goes against their own self interest to change the system.

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    1. The Lib Dems missed their big chance to change the system in 2010. Labour were offering it to them on a plate, but for some reason when it really came down to it they had other priorities.

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    2. Turkeys dont vote for Christmas.

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  5. We could do the English a favour by leaving the UK . Surely then they'd need to take a serious look at having a proper written constitution and PR.
    Saor Alba

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  6. I can see them introducing Alternative Vote.

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    1. I cannae even see them reforming the lords let alone introducing even a modestly improved voting system.

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    2. The AV would keep Farage out.

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    3. 3.59 . Cant see how, he got a constituency himself and 3 others . He would then get addutional seats added.

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  7. Not true. SNP always have been against FPTP.

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  8. Anon 3.54 = another Britnat.

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  9. Mhairi Black. Could she be looking into standing for a Holyrood seat in order to participate in the 2026 election?

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  10. James, thanks for the blog and opportunity to post. Been reading reports Alba lost deposit for every candidate it stood (bizarely imo). Were you responsible for their pre election opinion polling (& if so, what vote share was expected), or do they have someone else for that?
    Also, is there a site where we can compare and contrast the current and historic postal vote with the in-person vote by constituency? gut feeling is that there's a number of anomalies that must be worth a closer look, if at all possible, cheers.

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    1. No, I haven't really been involved in Alba's polling. I recommended Panelbase to them for their first poll and later told them about my experiences with Find Out Now, but that's as far as it's ever gone. (And judging from the personal tirade Shannon Donoghue launched against me a couple of hours ago on social media, I can probably safely assume I'm not the in-group's favourite person at the moment anyway.)

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    2. And to answer your second question, I don't know of any such site, but someone else may be able to point you in the right direction.

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  11. Anon 4.09
    Yet another pathetic Britnat. Why do you come on a pro Indy website and spout shite? Do you think Scots wanting freedom fae their ain country
    are going to be influenced by the likes of yourself ?
    Are you a quisling or maybe yet another English person sticking their oar in?

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  12. Lord of the SlippersJuly 6, 2024 at 4:24 PM

    I fully understand your interest in writing about this as a political analyst, James. But, if the SNP pick up this ball and run with it they will be explaining away failure and basically pretending nothing is wrong or needs changing which is the last thing we want.
    Skier spent all day yesterday punting an extreme version of what you're saying on WGD and The National. Every time an SNP stalwart began to show any wavering doubt about the party's future btl he was there quick as a flash with a graph and a warped explanation about how the SNP somehow can still claim victory. He's like one of those Russian army units that's sole purpose is to shoot it's own retreating soldiers.
    I know it's a huge job to get things moving again but this broad church concept is nonsense without the glue of indy to hold it all together. Sturgeon used to manage it admirably for some years until about 2019 but it's long been a party of deep fractures. I've seen every opinion to blame for the result. Too much focus on indy, not enough focus on indy, too far left, Kate Forbes in cabinet etc. It is blindingly obvious that if the SNP reconnects with the 50% Yes they will do well in elections. Personally, I could happily live the rest of my life without seeing a group of SNP bigwigs marching behind yet another bloody rainbow / Palestine saltire or whatever but ultimately I don't care if they make tangible progress towards a mechanism for independence and a steady but consistent growth in support. Or at least look like they're still genuinely interested in indy.
    I'm really hoping the SNP have been given a massive wake up call and will embark on a full restructure with focus on indy ready for 2026. If they don't do anything to change then all their constituency MSPs are dead men walking. We've shown we are serious about that.

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    1. "But, if the SNP pick up this ball and run with it they will be explaining away failure and basically pretending nothing is wrong"

      No, it's the opposite of that. I made this point in my National piece - I can totally understand why the SNP are terrified of looking like they're minimising the defeat or not accepting the verdict of voters. But because of that, they're helping to perpetuate the fiction that the scale of the defeat was a lot worse than it actually was.

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    2. I also think you're quite wrong in implying they shouldn't be speaking up about Palestine, that's a very different matter from the trans obsession. A lot of people really care about Palestine, even leaving aside the moral imperative of speaking out.

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    3. Lord of the SlippersJuly 6, 2024 at 5:55 PM

      1) I really don't have a problem with everybody believing the SNP got well and truly battered in this WM election. Most importantly, I want them to believe it themselves and make urgent, radical changes. They won't do that unless they believe something went very wrong.
      2) I'll tread carefully here but my point about Palestine was to indicate that we all have our core beliefs and causes outwith indy. What's important to me won't be important to every other indy supporter no matter how passionate I am about it. I wouldn't expect all indy voters to adopt my position on it. Climate, Gender ID, Gas and Oil, Ferries, A9, Ukraine, Gaza, Nuclear weapons, EU membership. You'll find plenty of Yessers who care passionately about one or a few of those and not much at all about the rest. It really doesn't matter as long as we have indy in common to hold us together as a group. If indy fades away and other people start to think my causes are being put front and centre when theirs are being put in the background then we have a big problem.
      Respect to you as ever, James.

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  13. 4.09 Very obvious Unionist Troll

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  14. White Settlers stuck with Tories generally except of Dross in Moray East.

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  15. Sunday Independent/Ireland Thinks poll, July 4-5. Sample size: 1,465. MoE: 2.6%
    Fine Gael 24% (+2)
    Fianna Fail 20% (+3)
    Sinn Fein 18% (-4)

    Election in October v likely.

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    1. Sinn Fein have really dropped the ball in Ireland. If you look at the polling from the last couple of years you can see the steady decline. The main problem appears to be that there's a real difference between their progressive, internationally-minded leadership and the proletariat that they're trying to gain votes from. Unfortunately immigration and rough sleeping has become an issue in Ireland and the SF voter base doesn't like the leaderships position.

      The new lad Simon Harris who took over from Leo Varadkhar is also a smooth operator and is seen as amiable and approachable.

      The upshot is that while SF continues to do well in Northern Ireland and Michelle O'Neill is FM, Mary Lou McDonald is highly unlikely to end up as Taoiseach meaning that a border poll is unlikely as FG and FF are likely to make enough noises to stave off a poll as neither really wants a united Ireland and all those orangemen. They're interested in the long game.

      Also a wee factor is that Morgan McSweeney, one of Keir Starmer's most trusted advisors is an Irishman with strong family links to Fine Gael. His cousin was a SPAD to LV.

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    2. Really? You believe this nonesense?

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    3. Really? You can't spell nonsense?

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  16. Moray west, although nominally a SNP hold , would have gone to Tory Roberson except for the reform vote.

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    1. LOL. It's not a "nominal SNP hold" unless Keir Starmer is a nominal Prime Minister. That was just first-past-the-post doing exactly what it's supposed to.

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    2. ?
      I meant that on the 2019 vote allowing for change in the constituency boundaries it would have been an SNP seat . Therefore technically a hold.

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  17. Exactly. The SNP found the vagaries of FPTP at Westminster advantageous in recent previous elections. Now the boot is back on the other side.

    This is partly why their gradualist strategy has turned out to be a bit of a disaster. People get bored of political parties pretty much regardless of the actual policies, and the moments when the various electoral systems are particularly playing into your hands may be relatively short windows. You've got to make your moves count at or near the top of your arc, not on the way down after the peak.

    Now they need to get back onto the horse and find the ways to reverse the reversal.

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    1. That's not the reason their vote went down

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  18. Yes! That's clearly a problem with the SNP - they don't have anyone with any foresight and everything is immediate and short term. Because of this there is no contingency planning.

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  19. In northern ireland the unionist parties do tactical voting several of their parties stood their candidates aside to let the Alliance party win , in Scotland we know the unionist voters move to whichever party they think are winning in england as they have just done in this most recent election by moving to labour what we need in the SNP are politicians to stand up and be counted and heard to say that Scottish independence supporters will now be doing tactical voting .

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    1. Though in the past the SNP used to poll higher than independence itself. That implies pretty much everyone who supported independence used to vote for them as well as a section of the electorate who didn't necessarily support independence but believed that the SNP were a better option than the other parties to represent them.

      The question now is: Why did that change and why did 20% of independence supporters stop backing the SNP?

      The SNP needs to address both those points as to why they lost that level of support amongst indy supporters as well as the support who probably could have been convinced on the independence argument as they previously believed that the SNP were competent.

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    2. The change is due to not wanting to send MPs to Westminster anymore

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    3. Anon at 7.23:
      Yes I know. Its a bugbear of mine, I can't help it.
      Calum Maclean in the vid attached may be better at clarifying.

      https://www.tiktok.com/@caldamac/video/6951783511686745349?lang=en

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  20. Just reading the Graun atm. Joanne Cherry quoted as..
    "The only way forward for the SNP now is to “openly and honestly” address what has gone wrong. Swinney has not steadied the ship: the ship has gone down.
    Cherry stops short of saying that SNP leader John Swinney should be replaced, but she does say that a new broom is needed..."

    Those in charge do need to reflect.
    18 months till Scottish voting day.
    I will be delighted if refelection is professional and respectful and the focus is laser like on Independence, which is why they are there.
    I will despair if its a case of more self harm on the agenda.

    ----------------------------------
    Alba Shaor! (Means in translation: Free - as In independent - Scotland )

    *Saor Alba ( Means in translation: Joiner, Scotland)

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    1. You would have thought Cherry with her outspoken / undermining-supported Regan election and her views on trans.. would be elected supported by Rowling. Seems she isn’t as clever as she thought.

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    2. Saor , noun = joiner. But saor is also an adjective and a verb meaning free. Saor , root of verb is the imperative-
      So saor Alba ,is a command to free Scotland. However , it's a command to a single person and not very idiomatic.

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    3. Joanna Cherry is no longer a MP or even a prospective MP for the future, she has as they say "left the building"

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    4. Anon at 7.23:
      Yes I know, but or the language to make sense Saor cannot be spoken in that order. Its Alba Shaor. Its a bugbear of mine, I can't help it.
      Calum Maclean in the vid attached may be better at clarifying it as spoken

      https://www.tiktok.com/@caldamac/video/6951783511686745349?lang=en

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  21. Surely the Brit nats have had 300 odd plus years to show the benefit of the union by dualling! Of course the train system was decimated by the same britnats in the 60’ and 70’s. I am sure labour will ensure the levelling up programme will include a high speed train system to Wick ( Scotland) from Birmingham ( England). A bridge to the north of Ireland…

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  22. 644 - looks like you are on the wind up.

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  23. https://t.co/FEpxx7yYaO

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  24. Hi KC, in relation to your latest deleted troll posts, if you searched the archives of this blog without noticing I'm a supporter of proportional representation, you can't have looked very far. I've blogged about it many times both before and after 2015. So nice try, but no.

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  25. Deleted Anon: Why didn't you just post a picture of a shark?

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