Tuesday, April 16, 2024

More on Craig Murray and dual party loyalties

It's rather timely in view of my previous post that Craig Murray has now written a blogpost setting out more details about his plans to stand for the Workers Party of Britain in Blackburn, even though he is a member of the Alba Party.  Now, as I've done before, I want to make clear that I am not in any way having a go at Craig - I think Alba should absolutely be flexible and tolerant enough to allow one of its members to stand for another party in England.  But I also want to ensure that other Alba members can expect similar levels of flexibility and tolerance in equivalent situations, and that unwritten "special rules" that benefit certain prominent individuals should apply to all, so that they can be of benefit to all.

This is the crucial part of what Craig has said -

"Secondly, I talked it over with Alex Salmond before I accepted to stand in Blackburn. I have not left the Alba Party. Alex and I mutually agreed that at this election it would be better for me not to stand for Alba in Scotland, as that would give the unionist press an opportunity to continue to muck-rake over the lawfare to which we had been subjected.
Thirdly, George Galloway has declared that he no longer will participate in the Independence debate in Scotland.
I have also seen it reported that the Workers’ Party will not stand candidates in Scotland. That will need to be worked through, but at the minimum I expect we can reach an agreement they will not stand anywhere against the Alba Party, which would render my own position impossible. As Alba is only planning to stand in up to 16 constituencies this should not be difficult."

That latter point is not sufficient according to the Alba constitution.  Annex F of the constitution is entitled "Membership Rules" and Section 6 of that annex is entitled "Membership of Other Parties and Organisations".  It reads - 

"6.1 A member who is a member of another party registered as a political party with the Electoral Commission in the Great Britain register and intending to contest elections in Scotland is regarded as being a member of a political party expected to contest elections in opposition to the Party. A member in this situation ceases to be a member."

That leaves no room for doubt - if a party intends to stand anywhere in Scotland, you can't be a member of that party at the same time as being a member of Alba.  It doesn't matter whether Craig cuts a deal with George Galloway so that the Workers Party commits itself to only stand in Scottish seats where there is no Alba candidate - their involvement in those other seats would still render them "a political party expected to contest elections in opposition to the Party" according to the Alba constitution.  It's plain from Craig's words that he does not yet have a high level of confidence that the Workers Party of Britain will defy their own name to in future become an England-and-Wales-only party - he's "seen it reported" that they will not stand candidates in Scotland, but it sounds like he hasn't heard it from the horse's mouth and doesn't fully believe it, which is unsurprising given that the Workers Party's registration on the Electoral Commission website clearly states that it stands candidates in Scotland.

People have argued in BTL comments on this blog that all of this is a moot point because Craig has not technically become a member of the Workers Party of Britain yet, although he'll have to at some point between now and the general election.  However, based on specific examples from past experience, I strongly suspect that if an Alba member (who is not Craig Murray or someone similarly prominent or well-connected) had been selected to stand as a candidate for an anti-independence party which is registered with the Electoral Commission as standing candidates in Scotland, that person would have been immediately interpreted to have "publicly resigned from the Alba Party" and would thus effectively have been banned from the party until and unless the NEC lifted that ban.

Again, to be clear, I am not arguing for that to happen to Craig and I don't think it should.  But I do want to see all Alba members benefit from the same type of tolerance, and if that means a blind eye being turned to bad rules, as is undoubtedly happening in Craig's case, so be it.

80 comments:

  1. "George Galloway has declared that he will no longer participate in the independence debate in Scotland". Aye right! If Craig Murray trusts George Galloway then he is actually dafter than I thought he was.

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    1. I agree entirely, I've seen a few people make this argument, and it is utter drivel. The moment George Galloway sees an opportunity, he'll be back.

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    2. Waiting for him to appear on Love Island pretending to be a squirrel.

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    3. that's the first thing that crossed my mind.

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  2. There are some wonderful people in the Alba Party but the party itself is a joke. Evidence here, plain to see.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident.." - US Declaration of Independence.

    "We hold these truths to be self-evident.." that Alba is over. Bar the shouting, that is, which there seems no shortage of.

    Southside Ian

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  3. I realise that he is bipolar, but a superannuated high-up ex-civil servant who lives in a mansion in Morningside that he bought for cash spearheading the dictatorship of the proletariat in Lancashire is still silly. I also realise that he is hot for Gaza. The Worker's Party policy is for a 'one state solution', whatever that is - I don't want to look into it in case it's river to the sea ethnic cleansing.

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    1. A one state solution simply means recognising that the entrenchment of Israeli settlements make a Palestinian state non-viable, because it would be based on non-contiguous, Bantustan-like parcels of land. So the alternative is to create a single state in the territory that Israel controls, with citizenship and voting rights for all. I believe such a state would currently have a Jewish majority, albeit a slender one.

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    2. That would be nice, and might happen in 300 years time. I don't want to examine the Worker's Party foreign policy in case it involves Hamas running the Tel Aviv local council.

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    3. Well, in a democracy, Hamas might well be elected to run certain local authorities in the single state, but obviously not in Tel Aviv which is heavily Jewish.

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    4. I don't get how people can't relate this to stuff closer to home. I like Spain fine, but I don't want them to lead us.

      In the same way, Gazans and Israelis are different peoples.

      I'm in no way standing up for Hamas here. But it was an act of desperation due to the refusal to even talk about the situation, as it was.

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    5. Idea there will be one state is ludicrous. blatantly needs to be two with international peacekeeping between.

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    6. I dont think it is appropriate to have and respond to a comment making fun of mental illness i.e. bipolar. About someone who is reading the comments judging by Craig Murray responding. Not a great look.

      Commenting to make this point only.

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  4. I assume Galloway is still a british nationalist and pro unionist. He just intends to keep quiet for a little while. Why would anyone get into bed with him and party if you believe in Scots Independence- metaphorically speaking? miaow. Does make ALBA look foolish. Next they will work with the Scottish Greens!!

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    1. notice their logo looks like the insignia on a ww2 aircraft. Red, white and blue. Seems they are quite centrist. Not dissimilar to right wing ideologies of Reform.

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    2. On the day after Galloway won in Rochdale, James O'Brien of LBC played a clip of a speech which Galloway made a while back in which he berated the UK Government for enabling refugees to be "put up in 4 star hotels". I am not old enough to have been around in Sir Oswald Mosley's time, but I have little doubt that he (Mosley) would have been looking to recruit Galloway into his British Union of Fascists had he still been around to hear it. That is the company that Craig Murray wants to keep at the moment - and apparently with the full approval of Alba!

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  5. This would be cleared up if Galloway made a statement on whether they actually are standing in Scotland and also campaigning against independence.

    Or I suppose if they subsequently did stand, maybe Craig would be foroced to resign his new party's membership? I suppose that is another compromise.

    I agree they should be able to have more than one party allegience as long as they are not competing. Just change the rules slightly, I suppose.

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  6. and you believe him? Does his statement mean others wont?

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    1. To avoid confusion , my comment is directed at Mr Murray.

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  7. There was no oversight because I did mention it. I said: "he's 'seen it reported' that they will not stand candidates in Scotland". You've provided the links to where you saw it reported, which is fine, but it's clearly referred to in the blogpost.

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  8. My unhinged stalker from two weeks ago seems to be 'triggered' by this issue and is out in force again today. If anyone wants to express similar views to him, I would encourage you to use a name and ideally a Google account, because I can't distinguish between anonymous commenters saying similar things and your comment may end up being deleted by mistake.

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    1. Indeed. You’d think these people would have better things to do with their time.

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    2. There's a very nasty comment about Alex Salmond at the end of the last blog (anonymous of course) which you may feel is worth deleting too.

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    3. OK, done, but I think that's the second time I've deleted that one.

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    4. Thanks. He seems to post in the wee sma' hours so he can sneak in unnoticed.

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  9. Mr Murray seems to have overcome his case of GDAFO and has blogged his case to the people of Blackburn (vote for me and terrible things 2700 miles away will stop, Tories Bad, and that's about it). Whether he has ever been to Blackburn is a question. I guess he got bored of the Lib Dems. Presumably he hopes the Labour candidate is a religious extremist again.

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  10. That is the poll I mentioned on the previous thread: Norstat.

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  11. 3.16 is by me, Derek.

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  12. It's the 5% undecided isn't it that's an issue. We have two entrenched views now. Can see this ore or less 50/50 going on for some time.

    No side is getting substantially over 50% support so we'll continue as is talking about it (annoying unionists) and not getting anywhere fast (annoying independence supporters).

    It's up to Scots to start shifting attitudes. Prob need a charismatic campaign to do so.

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    1. Even 7 points is a 3.5 point swing. It's basically two large camps. Neither are getting substantially over 50% which chimes with anyone speaking to Scots. We're divided on this issue.

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    2. You can be as impressed or unimpressed as you like. James isn’t paid to do this and, indeed, has to pay to keep the blog lit.

      Southside Ian

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    3. I agree. James write good blogs and has the right to control the comments.

      Derek.

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    4. He did delete one of mine in which I argued against his standpoint on Craig Murray. That is fair enough because it really is James' call. It is only right that he can delete comments without explanation.

      Derek

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    5. I've also been deleted at times. It's his blog, his prerogative. Don't take it personally.

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    6. Abhain - James has published his stance on deleting comments on many many articles. Part of it is that he will delete any comment asking him to explain why he deleted it. His site his rules.

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    7. Agree with IFS

      --Derek.

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    8. I get what you're saying. I thought my post was fair comment as well but it is what it is. I hope it doesn't stop you posting.

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  13. You are conflating two different things James, which is probably due to me not being clear in the first place.
    That George is no longer going to campaign for unionism is definite. He has told me so himself directly and it is captured in those reports.
    What I have only seen in reports is that the Workers Party will not stand in Scotland. I believe that is right but haven't discussed it direct with George yet.

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  14. He is free to campaign for anything in the future.

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  15. 14,000 children now murdered in Gaza. Tory and Labour aiding and abetting the murder of children in Gaza and the West Bank. If you vote Tory or Labour you are complicit in these horrendous crimes. Blood on the Britnat hands.

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    1. Do you think Humza has done well on Gaza?

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    2. IFS, what is going on in Gaza is terrible, nobody would deny that.
      Nevertheless your post is absolute nonsense.

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    3. KC at 10.33pm - blood on Britnat hands including yours. It's not a natural disaster it's a genocide and you Britnats are helping them do it. More children out playing in the street today in Gaza massacred by an IDF drone. No hiding place for Britnats over this. All of you bear responsibility.

      You stalking me KC.

      Anon at 10.28pm - if you had been paying attention you would have read my previous post commending Yousaf for calling out the Britnats for supporting the murderous IDF. Chucking a few parcels of food out the back of a plane does not absolve them of being complicit in the starvation and murder of children every day for more than 5 months.

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    4. IFS, I said it’s terrible what’s happening in Gaza.
      So we’re not to vote Labour or Tory because of Gaza! Plus you say don’t vote SNP. So who to vote for???
      As far as I know the Monster Raving Looney Party ain’t standing in my constituency.
      You are beyond ridiculous.

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    5. Nonsense, anon? How so? Explain.

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    6. KC says it's terrible what's happening in Gaza and thinks that means it's ok for him to support Labour or the Tories helping the IDF murder 14,000 children.
      KC says " So who to vote for ". KC there are dense people and then there are people like you - the truly dense. If you ever actually voted then you would see a long list of candidates. Being a Britnat - how about the lib Dems they called for an immediate ceasefire months ago.

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    7. IFS, you may be happy to waste your vote but I certainly ain’t!

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    8. KC - happy to vote for murdering thousands of children.

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    9. IFS, pathetic the way Nats like you twist things.

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    10. IFS, I stated last night how awful it is what’s going on in Gaza.

      It is utterly pathetic the way nationalists attempt to make political gain at every opportunity, particularly with tragedies. Just look back at Sturgeon’s grandstanding during Covid, trying to make out Scotland was doing better than England when clearly we weren’t. Support for independence rose at that time as gullible fools were taken in by the Nat nonsense.
      God Save The King.

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    11. When the Nazis were committing their genocide in the forties they did their best to try and keep it a secret. Today a genocide is happening and we get to see it on our TVs screens, our phones and computers and our UK main parties Tory and Labour are happy to boast that they are helping it to happen. Sunak and Starmer friends of Israel. No excuse is available for any Britnat. Blood on the hands of all the Britnats who support the Tories and Labour.

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    12. One believes in Scotland and the other's a Nicola Sturgeon fan?

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    13. Hello IFS, not heard back from you, so presumably I stumped you with my wee teaser at 10:07.

      Answer: There’s very little difference, they both live in cloud cookoo land😁.

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    14. KC - you would be better employed getting the blood off your hands.

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    15. Anon 12:25 That's not the difference then, that's what they have in common. Pose riddles often?

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    16. Not just a failure in riddles, can't spell either - cuckoo, cuckoo😁

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    17. KC - living proof that it is not only WGD that have idiots posting.

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    18. IFS, you somehow think independence is a good idea so you can’t be the sharpest tool in the box yourself.

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    19. KC - so all the countries in the world that are independent including the more than 60 who said goodbye to Westminster and didnae look back are full of people who are idiots who think independence is better but KC isnae the idiot. 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

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    20. Cuckoo, cuckoo!

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    21. What's the difference between a wit and a pompous balloon?

      A wit knows how to construct a riddle properly while a pompous balloon can't spell but thinks he can call others stupid.

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    22. KC - silent majority - obviously you aint part of that as you are continuously posting a lot of Britnat infantile pish. There is no union - only colonial England and its colonies and you KC have no arguments just silly assertions. What is the point of this God save the King nonsense - if Charlieboy kicks the bucket there will be another freeloader along in seconds to check out the Panama accounts and help themselves to other dead people estates.

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    23. IFS, I strongly advise you to seek help.

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    24. I strongly advise you to buy a dictionary. Cuckoo, cuckoo! 😁

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    25. KC, I don’t agree with everything Ifs posts, but you’re just being a pain in the arse. Have you got nothing better to do with your time?

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  16. Why doesn't Murray resign from Alba to stand for WPB?

    I just don't get why he needs to be a member of Alba also?

    Derek

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    1. Actually, that’s by far the most sensible thing to do. He really should. No harm, no foul. Also no hostage to Galloway’s fortune.

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    2. Yeah, why does he need to be a member of Alba? What is Alba's need for him? Doesn't compute.

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  17. What dual party associations COULD/SHOULD be allowed if Craig Murray should not be forced to resign?

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  18. he's not a preforming monkey, calm down.

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  19. Maybe dosen’t like the numbers lol.

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  20. Just curious, but has ALBA made a statement on whether Galloway has given direct assurances to them that he now believes in Scots and Welsh Independence as he does for Palestine and Ireland and that his party will not stand in Scotland. If yes, no real issues but if not then the implication that ordinary ALBA members are being treated differently seems correct.

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    1. the only claim is that he's not actively campaigning against independence. not that he won't in future or that is or will be other than unionist.

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    2. there is an election in East Midlands which they are attempting to turn into a Palestine election. I understand the rules are what they are but the thrust of this party is clearly about one issue close to the hearts of people in this East Midlands constituency. I don't think they are strong on Unionism.

      It's like a Crofters party or something. I couldn't care less if they were technically unionist if someone was standing for an important crofter issue in a crofting constituency.

      It probably does matter but I'm not getting hot under the colour over it.

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    3. Galloway is a dodgy character to me. Hostile to his native country's independence whilst advocating it for others. His obsession with Muslim issues looks like an attempt to set up an Islamic party in Britain - a dangerous road to go down.

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  21. Anonymous at 10am. The United Nations condemned what Israel is doing to innocent people in Gaza. In view of your comment that I thought that might have come as news.

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  22. I think a few on here are just flying a kite to divert from the discussion of this blog. Ohhh, there’s a squirrel.

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  23. Alex Salmond said it would be OK for Murray to be a member of another party, he could do no less as he's a willing participant in joining up with anybody that will advance his own career ambitions, Labour Tory Russia today GB news, there's no end to who Salmond will team up with

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    1. He compares unfavourably to Nicola Sturgeon in that regard.

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