You'll probably have encountered the "It Was A Scam" hashtag on social media, referring to the deeply cynical but remarkably successful attempts of an establishment cabal to get false or wildly exaggerated allegations of antisemitism against left-wingers to stick in the public consciousness, with a view to bringing down a Corbyn leadership which couldn't be dislodged in any other way. Keir Starmer's involvement in that process would make it richly ironic if it turned out that he overreached himself by thinking uncritical support for Israel is the passport to electoral success, and ultimately lost huge numbers of votes among Britain's Muslim community (much bigger than the Jewish community, remember) due to his stance on Gaza.
A new Survation poll of British Muslims commissioned by the Labour Muslim Network is being billed as the first hard proof that Starmer is indeed paying the penalty. However, a touch of caution is called for here, because the poll is being reported in a misleading way. It's being suggested that Labour's support has "halved" among Muslims since the general election, but that seems to compare the 86% support Labour actually received in the 2019 general election with a 43% figure in the poll before the exclusion of undecideds. That's an apples-and-oranges comparison because there were no "undecided votes" in the general election.
Once undecideds are removed, the Survation poll still shows a dramatic drop in Labour's vote among Muslims since 2019, but it's not quite the total collapse that is being suggested...
Labour 60%
Greens 14%
Liberal Democrats 9%
Conservatives 8%
SNP 4%
So that's actually around a twenty-six point drop for Labour since 2019. There's not much doubt that Starmer's stance on Gaza is largely the culprit, because 85% of respondents say that the conflict in Gaza is important in determining how they will vote, and only 5% disagree. Starmer also has a negative personal rating in the poll, with 40% regarding him unfavourably and only 29% favourably.
That said, Muslims only make up around 5% of the UK population, so a 26-point drop among Muslim voters equates to around a 1-point drop among voters as a whole. So if you want to know why Muslim anger about Gaza hasn't really impacted the national polls, that's the reason. The dangers for Labour are that the anger about Gaza will extend to large swathes of non-Muslim voters, perhaps particularly in the student population as we saw after the Iraq War, and also that disproportionate geographical concentrations of Muslims could lead to Labour losing specific seats under first-past-the-post.
In case you're wondering, there's no published Scottish subsample in the poll - Survation have crudely split the sample into "London", "North West [of England]", "Yorkshire and the Humber", "West Midlands", and "Other", with Scotland being lumped into the latter. Which is really odd, because the SNP at 4% of the GB-wide vote implies significant numbers of respondents were from Scotland.
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I’ve heard the conventional wisdom is that Muslim voters don’t matter because they are heavily concentrated in England’s urban, Labour held, safe seats. FPTP buries anyone’s importance when they don’t live in competitive seats.
ReplyDeleteIt’s a bit more complex here in Scotland—hi, Survation!—because the SNP are also strong in urban, diversely populated seats. Also: the SNP has a Muslim leader with a fundamentally more humane stance on Israel/Gaza. So this weakness of Starmer’s could well be disproportionately strong here in Scotland. Mixed in with the SNP’s overall weakness, of course.
The Rochdale by-election is an early test of this weakness in Muslim support. At only 19% of the population of Rochdale, however, Muslim votes won’t likely decide the outcome even here.
ReplyDeleteThe SNP deserve a lot of credit for their leadership on this issue.
ReplyDeleteThe National reports that Yousaf said some of his closest friends still need convincing on independence. Aye that would be Sturgeon, Swinney, Blackford, Robison, Somerville, Flynn, Robertson and Foote.
ReplyDeleteAnon at 5.14pm - a whiff of Britnat shit.
DeleteThankfully the majority of the country doesn't need any convincing.
DeleteTrue though, whether you like it or not, you’re in a minority.
DeleteEh? It's true that I'm in the majority, but I'm in the minority? Get back to us when you've got the story straight lol
DeleteWGD numpty barpe says:- " Sorry, but I won't listen to anything a Green MSP says ever again , since they have just effectively given Fluffy Mundell a GE election win by splitting the SNP INDY vote."
ReplyDeleteINDY vote - what Indy vote ya numpty. There is only a vote for a party. These numpties always see it as the other party that is in the wrong. If you want a vote for Indy then chastise the SNP - the SNP rejected a Scotland United de facto referendum. It's ALWAYS the SNP at fault but these numpties are so blind that they always see it as someone else at fault. The SNP promised a referendum for years but didnae deliver.
Yeah it's got to be a de facto referendum. 100% guaranteed success.
DeleteWell said, totally agree.
DeleteThe chances of success for the unionist side in a de facto referendum are zero.
DeleteAnon at 6.26pm - why?
DeleteHumza has shown significant leadership on the question of Gaza, a point that in and of itself has probably not gone unnoticed either in wider international circles or in the electorate in Scotland. Obviously, he does not do it for votes, rather he does it because it is the right thing for him to do.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that the wider international community are listening to what comes out of Holyrood is risible. Also Humza may not be doing it for votes but he certainly makes sure we all hear about it.
DeleteIt’s not as heroic as you’re making out. Any polling to seriously suggest the majority of Scots side with Israel? Aye right.
DeleteI saw the SNP's Drew Hendry was talking to the Martin Geezer on the Sunday show about energy and oil/gas licenses. Didn't actually watch it but I bet he talked about global warming and the need to stop issuing new licenses even though the SNP have no control over the matter as it is wholly reserved to Westminster. I'll also bet Hendry didn't mention the fact that the BBC and Better Together lied about the oil/gas running out.
ReplyDeleteDrew put in a strong performance for the SNP on the Sunday Show. Contrary to what you say he put forward answers which strongly defended Scotlands interests and which will not be quickly forgotten.
DeleteAll right, I'm convinced now, you're a parody of a bad astroturfer rather than the real thing. There's a touch of genius to lines like "and which will not be quickly forgotten".
DeleteParody would be madder, though. “This interview will be remembered in the same breath as Bannockburn and that episode of Rab C Nesbitt with the Govan by-election. Children will learn them all in school…” Either they’re a very gentle satirist or an unaware and pompous buffoon.
DeleteAnon at 7.13pm - are you for real - that sounds like someone reading from a script. Anyway you never said he took the opportunity to point out Better Together's big lie in 2014 that oil was running out and would be finished in 10 years time. In fact the SNP never point this out. It is an open goal but the SNP don't even bother shooting. Why - because they don't think independence. They think politics.
DeleteThe thing about SNP propagandists like anon at 7.13pm is they think the thin gruel of "Drew put in a strong performance blah blah " means anything to me - it doesn't. I want independence not strong performances on Britnat tv shows.
Muslims in Scotland are more than 5 %, also It's not like England where they only have the Greens as alternative to Labour, there is the SNP
ReplyDeleteI'd have to check, but I very much doubt Muslims make up more than 5% of the population in Scotland. In fact I'm almost certain you're wrong.
Delete1.4%
DeleteMuslim, Christian, whatever. Far to much credibility is given to “faith” demographics who believe in imaginary beings who live up in the sky. If they genuinely believe in that stuff it’s going to affect their political decisions and that’s bad for everyone.
ReplyDeleteThe SNP has a strong record where it comes to supporting people of faith. Whether it is Humza or Kate, the SNP values people of faith at all levels in the party.
DeleteLet's hope they value Kate enough to make her leader before the general election.
DeleteThen let's hope that anon at 7:13 isn't representative of the SNP as he obviously holds religious views in contempt, an attitude I saw
Deleteall over social media from party members during Forbes leadership campaign.
Anonymous at 7:49, I agree but think it’s very unlikely there’ll be a change of leader before the GE.
DeletePlus if the GE turns out not as bad as predicted, they may even try to carry on with Yousaf.
SteveP: in all of this it's important to be realistic about the SNP's prospects, given that the last election threw up outcomes which are the consequence of special circumstances, and given that the FPTP electoral system can lead to changes in seat numbers that are disproportionate to the changes in underlying vote share.
DeleteThat's exactly why I keep pointing out they could literally end up with two seats - they'd be back to 1979 or 1983. If you think Humza could survive that sort of outcome because of "realism", you're dreaming.
DeleteWho would want to take over in that dumpster fire, though? Who wants to be the SNP’s William Hague or, if you’ll pardon my language, Kezia Dugdale? Coming back from that would be a multi-election, multi-leader project.
DeleteCould Yousaf even be the SNP's Jim Murphy - like Murphy Yousaf talks a good game but ends up getting thrashed at the election and is never seen again (except for a few people in Clarkston spotting him out running).
DeleteI don’t see the GE being anything other than bad for the SNP.
DeleteThe question is, how bad will it need to be for them to get rid of Yousaf?
Rory the Tory and Alastair Campbell like him, apparently. Via the National:
Delete“I was really charmed, he’s an excellent communicator. I really think that very few politicians are quite so warm and open,” Stewart said to Campbell at the end of the episode. “About his mental health, about his family. He’s very good at avoiding defensive jargon.”
Both co-hosts said that the First Minister was “more defensive” when talking about the EU and Scotland’s productivity and Campbell added he wasn’t “clear” what the SNP’s strategy is.
But Stewart added: “I think he’s got a great future ahead of him. He’s very young and if he’s resilient, he could emerge as a really major statesman in the next 20 years in Britain.”
That’s the underlying problem with Humza and the nuSNP: they will still be playing politics inside the UK, guaranteed.
It is surely only a good thing that he is likeable and impresses others?
DeleteHe really is the nation's sweetheart.
DeleteBut which one? That’s the problem. They’re not meant to be the Northern British National Party.
DeleteA realistic approach must be adopted in all reason. It does have its limits of course. Many supporters of Humza would concede that if the SNP were to fall to single figures then it would be reasonable for a leadership challenge to be considered and Humza may in fact resign in the wider interests of the SNP in order for a fresh relaunch of the party to begin.
DeleteWell that's big of him. But even if the SNP fall to 10 or 15 or maybe even 20, I think he would be toast.
DeleteHumza is a seat warmer for Angus Robertson. They’re a one-two act. The first one loses Westminster. The second one loses Holyrood. Job done.
DeleteContinuity Team!
When did Britnats thinking an independence leader is a jolly good chap is a good thing for an independence leader. They should be scared of the independence leader. Yousaf a "major statesman in Britain" - Stewart is taking the piss.
DeleteNope it's not Angus
DeleteThe 'imaginary beings who live up in the sky', besides representing irrational hope and the dream of magic, embody people's materially-based cultural and -- most importantly -- ethical beliefs. In this way religion is quite relevant to politics. Militant atheists seem to overlook the context and see religion as consisting purely of its myths.
DeleteMilitant atheists all fondle the same straw man, so to speak!
DeleteSoon to be deleted anon: say *why* then. You too afraid you’ll lose?
ReplyDeleteTo whom is your post addressed?
DeleteThe usual plonker, who was indeed deleted. He claims again and again that Scotland will never be independent and our means for winning that goal aren’t credible. Never a word of his rationale, though. Because there is none.
DeleteAnonymous at 10:20, what are you on about?
DeleteCharlieboy wants to give hope to people who have cancer. It's his public duty to be open and transparent we are told. As he is getting his treatment immediately it would be fair to say he has a lot more hope than a lot of people on long cancer treatment waiting lists throughout his kingdom. The Britnat grovelling media, of course, decide not to mention this inconvenient fact but fear not we are also told Charlieboy is there for all other cancer sufferers. Clearly they are not singing God Save The King often and loudly enough at Ibrox these days although I guess Rule Britannia and The Sash are probably still favourites. The King is now so transparent that we are told he may deem to tell us exactly what cancer he is suffering from in say a years time or so. Meanwhile his government continues to support the daily massacre of children in Gaza and the murder/imprisonment of other children in the West Bank. UK sponsored starvation of Palestinians is now on the horizon. God save the children.
ReplyDeleteAnon at 9.52am - nice to hear from a very optimistic chappy. God save the children.
DeleteSalmond, Labour, Tory, same thing, nothing to offer Scotland except rubbishing the SNP who keep right on beating all of you, and you still don't get why because you're too busy whining
ReplyDeleteThe public don't vote for whiners
You certainly have a point.
DeleteThe SNP needs to get it’s act together though, it’s not too hard to see why a lot are pissed off with them.
There’s no doubt we need a strong SNP, let’s just hope the GE marks the low point.
Anon at 4.53am - 😂😂😂😂 the biggest moaners and whiners are the SNP MPs in Westminster - all they do is stand up moan and whine away about bad Westminster then pissof to stuff their faces with food and drink in the numerous bars and restaurants spending the money they get from Westminster. They never do anything to progress independence. I have zero respect for them or Sturgeon's gang - nor you anon, because your post is all about winning seats for the SNP and nothing about independence. So your post is mince anon, the public clearly vote for whiners - they are the SNP MPs.
Delete"There’s no doubt we need a strong SNP, let’s just hope the GE marks the low point."
Delete*IF* they change for the better. But only if. The ball is in their court, not ours and certainly not Scotland's.
There's so much that can be done about independence now that the polling evidence shows a majority wants it. What are we waiting for?
DeleteAnon at 2.29: Totally agree.
DeleteShould "we" be chapping doors and talking up Scotland, by any chance? Should we wheesht (our complaints about the SNP) for Indy?
DeleteBecause while you're right about the majority, you're wrong to imply that regular punters like us can do anything about it. The leader of the Yes movement—the leader of the Scottish National Party—has the exclusive clout and institutional means as First Minister to ACT on independence.
With respect, I think anon comment at 2.29 was extremely sensible.
DeleteMaybe you missed Rutherglen and other results. And maybe you think that people are impressed by politicians who bubble under questioning.
DeleteGo on then, enlighten us. What can we do that Humza can’t? Tell our neighbours for the thousandth time that we’d like them to vote Yes, if we ever happen to be lucky enough to live to see another referendum? They’ll love that one. They’ve heard it all before!
DeleteIt's time.
DeleteTime for a de facto.
DeleteLocal factors in Rutherglen.
DeleteWhoever you are: you’re too thick to be AI. Bravo. 👏
DeleteHere's Kate Forbe's Church: https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/4128820/free-church-scotland-continuing-islam-koran-satanic-lie-msp-anas-sarwar/
ReplyDeletePreach it, Brother Atheist!
DeleteI don't believe in god either, mate. But you're changing no one's minds by laughing at religion. It is what it is. The good people who "believe" it can hardly follow it all to the letter.
Anon 10:38 Interesting how some atheists are so anxious to sneer at Christianity but will rush to the defence of Islam to prove their woke purity.
Delete"The Union" (chortle) is embarrassing nonsense. Time for a de facto referendum. A plebiscite election, if you will.
ReplyDeleteHear hear.
DeleteLOL.
DeleteUnsurprisingly James, Irish Skier didn't think much of your article regarding SNP voters moving to Labour. Mind you a number of other WGD numpties just couldn't see any reason why an SNP voter should vote Labour now and you are now part of the Alba revenge project whose only objective is SNP bad. Sad Skier couldnae resist throwing in a wee jibe about getting his £20 quid back from you. These WGD numpties just cannae see who caused all this division - Sturgeon's gang. Instead they still hero worship the person ( Sturgeon) who left the SNP in a dreadful state and the yes movement divided.
ReplyDeleteFor the record, I didn't refund him. As I explained to him at the time, I had long since spent the money in exactly the way I said I would, and I can hardly be expected to keep funds in reserve for an indefinite period just in case everyone suddenly demands a refund months or years later. He then requested a refund direct from the fundraising site, and the outcome of his correspondence with them had nothing to do with me and didn't affect me in any way.
DeleteI love the bit where Skier says "As a geochemist / chemical engineer". Is that his nineteenth career to date? LOL
DeleteHe's a lavvie inspector first, last and always. He seems to be keeping a secret from the Duggers but he must be 'bursting' to tell them.
Delete