Anyway, I eventually managed to find some SNP leadership odds on the website of McBookie, the Scottish firm which had been quoted by the newspaper article...
Kate Forbes 5/2
Mairi McAllan 5/1
Mhairi Black 5/1
Angus Robertson 6/1
Neil Gray 10/1
Ben Macpherson 12/1
Shona Robison 16/1
Jenny Gilruth 25/1
Joanna Cherry 25/1
Alex Salmond 50/1
Alyn Smith 50/1
Ian Blackford 50/1
Stephen Flynn 100/1
Michael Stewart 500/1
The renowned letter-writing impartial Liberal Democrat election expert Mike Smithson of Stormfront Lite fame always used to say that the reason political betting can be more profitable than sports betting is that bookies feel obliged to offer markets on politics, but often quote somewhat naive odds due to their own lack of knowledge on the subject, which can mean opportunities for genuine value bets if you look carefully for the mistakes. I'd suggest that may be the case here, although I don't want to be too confident in saying that in case I end up costing anyone money.
But on the face of it, Kate Forbes looks like the obvious value bet. She's rightly favourite but the odds are still quite generous - you'd win two-and-a-half times whatever you stake. I'm not suggesting she should be odds-on, because you have to factor in the chance that she might not stand at all for family reasons, and also that the continuity faction will be determined to stop her. However, she's positioned herself perfectly as the change option, which is likely to capture the zeitgeist if the leadership election occurs after a general election humbling for the SNP. I also can't see the kind of monstering she suffered last spring having the same kind of effect a second time - everyone knows all about her religious and social views now, so that's all factored in. I reckon her true odds should be somewhere between evens and 2/1, so 5/2 looks a little tempting.
Mhairi Black, on the other hand, should be nowhere near 5/1, so I wouldn't touch that with a bargepole. If McBookie are assuming a greater than 50% chance of a vacancy immediately after the general election, how can Black even stand? She won't have a seat in any parliament at that point. Mairi McAllan's position as joint second favourite will also raise a few eyebrows - I would guess the idea is that the Sturgeonites will unite behind a single champion as they did with Yousaf and that McAllan currently looks like the most telegenic option on offer. But she's still awfully young and inexperienced. Would she even want that weight upon her shoulders at such an early stage in her career? Would potential backers not look to a more seasoned figure instead, when it really came down to it?
Alex Salmond is at 50/1, and you might wonder if it's unprecedented for a member of one party to be listed as a leadership contender for another party. But in fact on the Betfair exchange Nigel Farage is currently listed at similar odds to be the next leader of the Conservative party.
Before we finish, a reminder that the Scot Goes Pop opinion poll fundraiser urgently needs a boost - let's not leave it in limbo for months. It's important that not all Scottish opinion polling is commissioned by anti-independence clients - we need to make sure that occasionally questions are asked that Yes supporters want asked. Donations can be made via the fundraiser page HERE.
However if you have a Paypal account the best way to donate is via direct Paypal payment, because that can totally eliminate fees depending on which option you select, and payment usually comes through instantly. My Paypal email address is:
jkellysta@yahoo.co.uk
Mhairi has what it takes to become leader of the SNP.
ReplyDeleteA vulgar, untidy, drag queen loving disaster - she will complete the SNP's descent into oblivion
DeleteBlack’s got the ego, that’s for sure. Don’t think she made any friends when she slagged off Saint Nickie, though. None of us trusted her to begin with. Now all she’s done is pissed off the continuity wing, too.
DeleteShe should not have said that about Nicola.
DeleteShe's just horrible. Calling her critics 'Jeremy Hunts', wearing a tee shirt saying 'pee next to me', downing cans of lager on the train during lockdown, to say nothing of her penchant for 'Kit Kats'. And to top it all, taking her drag queen pal with a pork site into a primary school to talk to children. She's about the only person I can think of he'd actually make a worse leader than Sturgeon. Yeuch!🤮🤮🤮
DeletePorn site not pork site😁. Actually a pork site wouldn't be so bad!
DeleteAnon at 8.48pm what did she say about Sturgeon - don't keep us guessing.
DeleteShe's discovered after Sturgeon resigned that perhaps her and Peter had too much power in the party. Oddly enough, that didn't seem to concern her when the Dear Leader was running things.
DeleteFelix, you forgot to mention that she looks like a tramp who has wandered in off the street. It might seem trivial but image is important in politics today and Black is scruffy and unkempt.
Yes, she looks and sounds like a ned (we'd have called her a 'hairy pie' in my day😄) and would be an embarrassment to Scotland on the world stage. As someone who has long since given up on the SNP, I would love to see her become leader as she is a car crash waiting to happen.
DeleteI’m sure if the SNP poll really badly at the GE, as many are predicting, there will be a change of leader shortly afterwards.
ReplyDeleteIt will be a time for someone of real authority to step forward and get the show back on the road. Personally my choice would be Ian Blackford. Sadly though, at 50/1 the bookies obviously don’t see him as a likely candidate.
No they don't, do they, how mysterious.
DeletePossibly Stephen Flynn or J Cherry? They are probably the two that carry the greatest weight in the House.
DeleteMore weight than Blackford!?😂
DeleteReally has to be a member of the Scottish Parliament. I know Salmond pulled it off that time from Westminster, but they’re all out of Ecks.
DeleteHow can Blackford lead the SNP from the House of Lords?
DeleteYes, I see in the Times today he's angling to squeeze his fat bahookie onto the benches in the Lords rather than give up the gravy.
DeleteI always thought his demeanour—as much as his waistline—was a better fit for the house of the upper crust. Wings is right to call out Blackford’s sheer hypocrisy for criticising Lord Ruth. Let’s face it, there’s next to nothing between them.
DeleteStronger Voices in the Lords for Scotland! Telling us dirty commoners tae wheesht.
Hey K C you are losing the little credibility you had - Blowhard Blackford the man who told us Scotland would not be taken out of the EU against our will. K C are you Blackford.
DeleteK C Blavkford wants to join the House of Lords and sit with the rest of the Britnats
DeleteI think Shug, the ultimate continuity candidate, kept out of the race to succeed Nicola because he’s smart enough to know a drubbing was coming. Who wants to be William Hague or Iain Duncan Smith? I’d be tempted to back Robertson this time. He is, of course, a two for one offer as we all know about his legendarily ambitious missus.
ReplyDeleteGood point. Angus Robertson is in a strong position. He also is a good performer and a serious person who commands respect.
DeleteIncidentally: I also think Angus Robertson would be a nightmare for the independence movement. I really hope Kate Forbes wins. The continuity faction, however, will rally around one candidate and Shug’s a leading choice to be their man.
DeleteToo many skeletons in the Robertson closet with that wife of his.
DeleteDefinitely. But look at it another way: they trust you when they know they have something on you. I think he’d be their favourite choice!
DeleteKate Forbes could certainly take a turn after Humza if there is a serious wipeout at the GE. It would dispel the notion that the SNP is not willing to endorse a leader with her outlook and views.
DeleteIt has to be Kate. No one else could reset the party and reconnect with the movement in time to save them in Holyrood.
DeleteShe is quite an impressive person and would probably be the best option. She is quite sensible to stay away from the current leadership. Possibly another Nicola Surgeon in terms of political reach and stature.
Delete'everyone knows all about her religious and social views now,' Perhaps you know little about her church of choice's edicts - her religious and social views have hardly been scratched if she beleves in them, which I presume she does - she didn't choose the CoS. The core tenent of the FCoS is that the whole of the Bible is God's word, literally. Including the first chapter, and all the other ones. Look up their website if you want.
ReplyDeleteNo doubt she is a good person but such beliefs are so far removed from those of the general population, it's obvious what would ensue.
She proved quite capable of defending herself on these issues. And hopefully everyone who supports her would be aware of her views this time before endorsing her. James makes a good point.
DeleteHave you read the Koran on social and religious matters? It's pretty frightening in its intolerance yet it didn't stop Humza being chosen because wokism seems to only be offended by Christianity - the hypocrisy is sickening
DeleteDoes Humza believe the Koran to be literally true?
DeleteThe Wee Frees are a very important and key part of Scotland's church history. Membership of it should be a plus point for a Scottish leader.
ReplyDeleteKate Forbes is open in her somewhat fundamentalist level religious viewpoints. I respect her immensely, but dwelling on these viewpoints would be easy pickings for the British establisment media.
ReplyDeleteIf the SNP go from where they are now to loosing their majority of Scottish WM seats (below 29, YouGov MRP poll last week had SNP down to 25, well below 2017 levels), Humza will be forced out long before Holyrood' 26 to mitigate the risk of further damage. (Forced out as opposed to resign)
My money would be on Angus Robertson, but would personally prefer Mairi McAllan.
Does Mc Allan actually want independence.? If she does why is she in Sturgeon's gang.
DeleteSalmond at 50/1 and Flynn at 100/1. Poor Flynn his ego will be on the floor in some Westminster bar.
ReplyDeleteFlynn looks good value there. He is quite well regarded on the Green Benches.
DeleteBy Tories or Labour.
DeleteRobertson is sitting in the wings with his ambitious wife hoping all the SNP shit is cleared up off the floor before he goes for the leader. Trouble is the SNP may be in such a state that when he is leader he won't be FM and his missus will not get to be the Lady (bit of a misnomer there) of Bute House.
ReplyDeleteYes I would agree that he is well positioned. He would be a safe pair of hands.
DeleteWhat you mean is you're continuity faction yourself and you think he's your guy to stop Forbes. It's got nothing to do with reaching out to voters.
DeleteA poster actually suggested Black as leader🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Now that would finish the SNP off for good. Black would try and pass a law saying all people must try out drag one day a week and you must enjoy it or it will be a hate crime. Hey how is Yousaf's hate Crime Bill doing these days. Is it because the polis are having to allocate so much resource to sort out what the hell do with it that they cannae finish Operation Branchform.
ReplyDeleteBlackford is worse than Pension Pete. Numpties thought somebody like him would deliver independence. He thinks he will be on the red benches for the next 20 years now that him and Sturgeon have done a number on the SNP and Indyref2.
ReplyDeleteSNP Leader Stakes run over 316 furlongs, going soft to even softer. Beware the sticking mud of "progressive" quicksands.
ReplyDeleteKate Forbes is a sensible favourite, Mairi McAllan and Mhairi Black should be more like 500/1, Angus Robertson not surprisingly then a 2nd favourite, but nicely priced at 10/1 is Neil Gray, with an improving performance over the sticks and stamina to make the run in over the last couple of hurdles.
Stephen Flynn at 100/1 is the best priced outsider, should be more like 10/1. His eyes don't smile and he wears blinkers. If he was to win Indy punters would lose the wad.
Jings it's 2024 already, make that 317 furlings.
DeleteI can't imagine it would be Forbes - there would just be too much of an "anyone but her" push back. The same would be true of Salmond, if he was even eligible.
ReplyDeleteFor any of the rest of them... heaven help us.
Although I did not initially support Humza, I have been impressed by his leadership. He did well on the Laura K Sunday politics interview last week. He deserves credit for stabilisation of the SNP at a time of crisis. It is also very clear what he stands for and he has the strong character needed for what is a tough job. His ratings are on the rise in the polls, something which few leaders achieve. We do expect the SNP to lose seats but the SNP may well wish to hold on to Humza if there is a degree of seat loss because it would be unreasonable to expect better. His leadership has been very good given the circumstances under which the SNP leader took over.
ReplyDelete"His ratings are on the rise in the polls"
DeleteOpenAI or just reality challenged?
His approval ratings have indeed risen in the polls. Check them out.
DeleteJust exactly what did Blowhard Blackford do to keep us in the EU never mind get rid of Scotland's colonial status. He deserves zero respect and deserves his nickname of the fat controller. After years of slagging off Salmond the fat controller was found to have been covering up his pal Grady's sexual assault for years and tried to bully and intimidate the victim of Grady 's assault. The guy is a hypocrite and deserves zero respect.
DeleteSome of these comments about Ian Blackford are too negative.
DeleteToo negative for who? Do tell us who you think you're working for.
DeleteCertainly not for those of us wanting independence, not fat bums parked for life on cushy London seats.
Anon at 10am: In fact it's you who are being too positive about Blackford and you need to get it f***ing sorted. A really poor effort from you. Do better.
Delete"Although I did not initially support Humza"
DeleteOh of COURSE you didn't, Anon! Why would anyone ever suspect such a thing?! Diehard Regan voter, were you?
Anon at 8.29am says:- " ....it would be unreasonable to expect better. " It's very reasonable to expect better anon. Why, because the SNP has been promising Indyref2 for about 6 years now and Yousaf cannae be bothered about independence. So when an organisation keeps promising you something year after year and fails to deliver anon says it is unreasonable to expect better. You must be easy to scam anon.
DeleteSome of the comments about Ian Blackford are wide of the mark. He has given great service to the party in the Commons for many years. He was one of the most effective spokespersons at PMQs. All of this is not easy. He is one of the most recognised persons from the SNP in the world of politics. I don't think he seeks the leadership. Some of the comments here are unkind, unfair and wide of the mark.
ReplyDeleteWhen it comes to Lord Blackford, it’s almost impossible to be *wide* of the mark.
DeleteWhatever happens in the next 12 months, it’s time to get behind the SNP. I totally agree, if the SNP poll really badly and lose more than half their seats in the GE, there needs to be a change in leadership. If it dosen’t turn out so bad, possibly there might be an argument for giving Yousaf a bit longer, though I appreciate some will have differing opinions on this.
ReplyDeleteWe do need to get behind the SNP though, all this division is doing the independence cause no good at all.
I agree 100%.
DeleteK C - I have come across plenty of posters like you on SGP who try and stop me posting by saying I post to much and unlike me they have a life - and yet here YOU are again, posting the exact same message with some anonymous poster saying they agree, who could be you. You make assertions but cannae back them up with any cogent argument and say you are to busy to do so but here YOU are again posting. You have zero credibility KC.
DeleteIFS, I, like you, am entitled to post my opinion.
DeleteUnlike you though, I don’t take issue with just about everyone who posts a comment. Have you nothing better to do than pick arguments on here?
Anyway I’ve got things to be getting on with. Have a good day.
K. C and there you go again just validating my post. I never said you couldnae post it was you trying to stop me post. I'll tell you what I don't do is come on SGP and continually post the same SNP propaganda like you.
DeleteKC, I agree with most of what you say. The only thing I’d disagree with is, I think the SNP should change leader asap. However you’re absolutely right to say people need to get behind the SNP, as without a strong snp there is little chance of independence.
DeleteThe “independence for Scotland “ guy appears to have a high opinion of himself.
Anon at 12.28pm - thanks for vaidating my post. No reasoning, no logic, no argument just a snide comment. So anon do you have a low opinion of yourself?
DeleteThere are times when I have doubts as to whether “independence for Scotland “ actually wants independence.
DeleteAnon at 12.51pm - Join my fan club.
DeleteNow you may have doubts about me but I am certain Sturgeon's gang don't want independence.
@12:51 Is "Wheesht for indy" working yet?
DeleteIFS, to say “Sturgeon’s gang” as you put it, don’t want independence is absolutely ridiculous.
DeleteWhat the hell are you on?
@3:02. For someone who posts as often here, you sure can't seem to read the room, can you? Not into reading James's blog posts, evidently. He even mentioned the absurdity that is junking the de facto referendum in the opening paragraph of this very post.
DeleteIf they wanted indy, they sure seem to be an incompetent bunch of wallopers. I think it's a bit more 50:50 between malice and incompetence, myself.
Anon at 3.22pm - wallopers - now there's a word I could make good use of. I'm thinking of you anon at 3.02pm. Even wallopers can join my fan club.
DeleteBlackford wanting to join the House of Lords should, I say should, inform even the most brain dead SNP numpty as to what the SNP has become. Sadly it won't as numpties seem to be impervious to the facts. Blackford is probably paving the way for the likes of Sturgeon, Russell, Wishart, Swinney to jump on board the House of Lords gravy train. Britnats the lot of them.
ReplyDeleteThe new SNP saying is " Settling in NOT settling up."
These comments are off-key and unkind. To be fair to Blackford, he is a first rate public representative, who has worked very hard for the SNP. He has made a lot of valuable contributions to public policy discourse in recent years.
DeleteAnonymous at 9:46, I agree, some of the comments are out of order. I wouldn’t disagree with some posts regarding Mhairi Black, however some of the comments regarding Ian Blackford for instance are way over the top.
DeleteBlackford did not say he wanted a seat in the Lords.
DeleteAye it didn't take long for an SNP numpty to come along and prove my point. " Public policy discourse" - does this discourse include covering up sexual assaults by his mate Grady in Westminster who was found guilty. Blackford even bullied and indimidated Grady's victim. Aye Blackford a paragon of virtue right enough.
DeleteAnon at 9.58am - aye he probably wants two seats.
DeleteIndependence for Scotland, your criticism of Ian Blackford is way out of order.
DeleteIFS, I agree with those saying that what you have said on this forum about Ian Blackford is inappropriate.
DeleteThe truth is inappropriate?
DeleteAnd who are you to say? Is this *your* blog, anon, not James's?
There are also a number of comments above about the partners of SNP politicians who should be off limits for discussion. It is inappropriate to refer to politicians private lives.
DeleteWhat's inappropriate about saying he's fat and tried to cover up Grady's shenanigans? Both are established facts.
DeletePrivate? Come off it. You know what and who we're on about. The court's gagging order ring a bell?
DeleteFelix: it constitutes body shaming, which is generally frowned upon and considered morally wrong.
DeleteOh go and clutch your pearls somewhere else! I've been called fatso and worse in my life, I didn't go running to my Mammy about it
Delete. I notice you have nothing to say about him protecting a sex pest which I think most people would be a lot more concerned about.
Anon11:04 Exactly, they know who we're talking about and they know why but they don't want to hear it. Meanwhile they continue to smear Salmond at every opportunity.
DeleteThe SNP MPs are hardly a handsome bunch, nor are most of us. But the weight they've put on at the London trough: that's *shameful*. There's no hiding the amount they've been chugging through at our expense.
DeleteWorse still: they're blocking Scotland's route to independence. Shame on them!
Amazing isn't it? He's more concerned about name calling than protecting sex pests. It's wokism gone mad and tells you all you need know about the priorities of these clowns.
DeleteNobody condones inappropriate touching. This has been investigated by the relevant committee in the House.
DeleteAnon at 12.12pm - quite frankly I am sick of SNP loyalists covering up disgraceful and wholly unacceptable behaviour yet there you go again. I repeat Blackford covered it up for years and tried to bully the victim in to shutting up about it and the hypocrite has been attacking Salmond for years.
DeleteThen why is it 'inappropriate' to mention Blackford's attempt to cover it up?
DeleteTruth hurts does it? You're pathetic.
DeleteFelix that post by anon 12.43pm sounds like the scary rogue computer in Space Odyssey 2001. How many of these anons are Murray Footes AI.
DeleteDave. I wouldn't do that if I were you, Dave.
DeleteIFS, 'This has all been looked into, time to move on' the Nicophants say while they rehash sleaze allegations against Salmond for the umpteenth time. This guy's a typical example - more upset about Blackford being called fat than he is about Grady's victim who Fatty tried to bully into silence - shameful.
DeleteAnon at 1.40pm nice one 👍
DeleteAnon at 10.51pm except whey they are a married couple running an important political party as if it is a family business. Probably the biggest mistake the SNP made in its history.
DeleteCorrection 10.51am.
Delete@IfS. Self evidently true. For all their posts here, they have still to offer us their first counter argument.
ReplyDeleteThat standard of "debate" used to be fine when the enemy was Slab or Northern British Tories or the like. You know, the kind of thing the Dug likes best to yap about, and the National. Just shout from the terraces and feel good to be behind the team.
It made for poor debating skills, however. All they know is "shut yer trap and wheesht for indy."
Speaking of leadership elections: what is the SNP's cut-off for new members having a vote in one? Should we be thinking of (re)joining the party in expectation of a chance to influence the vote?
ReplyDeleteI disagree with all Forbes’s social views except one – like her, I oppose abortion, though probably for different reasons. As a left-winger, I have bitter experience of ostracism and discrimination because of this view. Therefore I support Forbes, as her popularity indicates a willingness by the general public, much more than by most political factions, to accept the currently much-vaunted ‘diversity’ in all social viewpoints, including those they disagree with. (I’ve entered this comment under my name, rather than anonymously, so no-one will think I’m trying to hide my heretical views. Bring on the pitchforks and be damned.)
ReplyDeleteExcellent post. Agree 100%. I would go so far as to say Kate Forbes is a great asset for the SNP.
DeleteI like Kate as well. She and her church's social views diverge greatly from mine indeed, but she made it very clear she's not going to force them on Scotland. She's no wild numpty. Besides, we already have a First Minister whose faith agrees with most of hers, so where's the Sharia Law being forced on us? This is neither Saudi Arabia nor Cromwell's age. We decide these things democratically.
DeleteWhat I like about Kate is everything besides this. She's a great communicator, she's no daft, and she's handled herself so much smarter after losing the contest than any of her rivals. She's a real talent. And best of all: Nicola utterly loathes her!
Respect for posting as yourself. The plethora of anonymous commenters on here makes it difficult to have a structured debate as you don't know who's who. Obviously, I don't use my own name (I think few people do on the web) but it is important to mark your comments with some sort of identifier to avoid confusion.
DeleteOn a wider point, I consider myself left wing like you but I don't accept the groupthink of the left on lots of issues. I'd much rather have a principled politician like Forbes than a hypocrite like Humza who shies away from the unpalatable beliefs of Islam for the sake of his career. Even less a deluded ideologue like Sturgeon who insists on telling me that a double rapist is really a woman.
@Felix: exactly.
Delete@Katherine: Agreed. Nothing could ever convince me to remove every woman's right to end her unwanted pregnancy, but I respect the rights of all of us to a free and democratic debate about these issues. The outright overreach lately in rendering so many matters forbidden from discussion, just by unquestionable fiat, is deeply troubling.
Katherine I am all for free speech and I like to hear people argue their position/opinion. So happy to hear " different reasons". Personally , I am not impressed by the argument that some guy(s) wrote a book thousands of years ago to say God said you should do or not do things and, it will be men, who wrote all the religious books.
DeleteI am against cancel culture not least because many, many SNP numpties want to cancel me😂
@IfS: I hear you on the scripture front. “Some guy wrote it long ago. So what?”
DeleteThe best anti-abortion argument appeals to the rights of the unborn human child. I’m pro-choice, myself though, so I’ll leave that case to someone who believes it.
It is encouraging to see that Kate is appreciated by many. A great asset to the SNP.
DeleteWe're not just the den of SNP-loathing baddies you had us pegged for, anon? Strange, eh?
DeleteIt's *this* SNP that's the problem. We used to support it, before it came off the rails under Saint Nicola. Many of us will again, if it gets back on track.
IFS, I don't know if Katherine objects to abortion on religious grounds or not but let's not start disparaging people who believe in the Bible. As I've said above, the woke brigade seem to have no problem with the Koran which has some horrific things to say about homosexuality and the place of women in society. Somehow that was all overlooked in the name of diversity while Forbes was vilified for her beliefs in the leadership election.
DeleteIn her leadership campaign Forbes made it clear that, while she held to her views on abortion and same sex marriage, she had no intention of attempting to reverse them. (It would be impossible to get any such proposals through parliament anyway, even if she wanted to try).
DeleteMeanwhile, the SNP state 'religion' of transgenderism is being rammed down the throat of an unbelieving public, backed up by so-called hate laws to silence any dissent. I know which version of 'intolerance' I am more comfortable with.
Anon at 2.15pm - do I mention the bible specifically - no I don't. Try reading posts twice is my advice to you and stop putting your wrong interpretation on my post. People can believe Elvis lives on the dark side of the moon if they want. I believe in religious freedom it's just not for me. However, I don't expect religious people to try to tell me what to believe. Just as I thought the Inquisition Forbes went through was typical of the intolerant group in the SNP. So I don't disparage people who believe in the bible.
DeleteIfS: that is very encouraging to hear. Thank you for clarifying your position.
DeleteAnon at 4.06pm 👍
DeleteMy theory: Nicola hates Kate because once she raised her to the cabinet, she saw the one woman with the potential to outshine her. Above everything, Nicola's vanity couldn't handle it.
ReplyDeleteNicola Sturgeon deserves credit for spotting her talent and promoting her. There is no evidence whatsoever that Nicola Sturgeon had ill regard for Forbes
DeleteIf anything the opposite is true.
Humza doesn't like her that's for sure. He dropped her from the cabinet and replaced her with an imbecile
DeleteHe "offered" her a very generous demotion from Finance Minister to Farming, as I recall. She was absolutely right to turn him down.
Delete@1:55. The coordinated fusillade targeting Forbes' church right at the beginning of the leadership contest—which was timed quite inconveniently during her pregnancy—did not strike me as any kind of accident. Nicola made her dislike for Kate very clear.
The job offer was Rural Affairs - not to be sneezed at.
DeleteSuch an obvious and massive demotion was absolutely to be "sneezed at".
DeleteAgree. It was constructive dismissal.
DeleteThe comment by anon at 3.25pm is a classic party person response. Not a word on independence. Not too dissimilar to Yousaf and Forbes in the hustings who offered up very little on independence. I do agree with anon that Yousaf was courteous during Forbes attacks. This anon like so many SNP focus on performing well. He thinks Yousaf performed well. I guess it depends on your criteria. Sturgeon always performed well but she was a phoney on independence. Yousaf has learned well from Sturgeon how to impress SNP numpties. My criteria for how well he performed was what he had to say on independence and that was nothing. Forbes didn't have much to say on the matter either. Regan had plenty to say on independence and using my criteria performed by far the best. I vote for independence not who is the slickest performer.
DeleteAnon at 3.57 pm - I am like most people who vote or voted SNP. We want Scottish independence. I am not a political party person. Unlike most people like me I watched the leadership hustings and my criteria being independence was very disappointed but not entirely surprised. Regan only got 11% of the votes - rightly or wrongly that told me the members are not for independence or they don't care what is happening in their party. More evidence the SNP is not a party of independence. Other than the fact the SNP is registered in Scotland Yousaf and Forbes could have been in the Labour party from what I heard.
DeleteIfS thank you for your responses. Understood.
DeleteIndependence is, let's face it, inevitable.
ReplyDeleteAye, when though, that’s the million dollar question.
DeleteI wouldn’t say it’s inevitable. It’s proving difficult so far. There’s still much arrayed against us: the (still frustratingly trusted) BBC and our own crop of co-opted politicians being the principal hurdles.
DeleteLong term, if we’re still stuck where we are, the opinions of new Scots will become increasingly decisive as our birth rate slows. Many new Scots are, of course, English.
Whether Yousaf is still leader after the GE or we have a new leader, we have to hope the party gets its act together. It needs to perform a lot better in government, then hopefully all independence supporters will get behind the SNP.
ReplyDeleteThis has to be the way forward, we need a strong SNP. Then hopefully support for independence will rise further.
They certainly need to get their act together. You’re right we do need a strong SNP, however it may take time to get some of their former supporters back behind them.
DeleteI think the comments above illustrate what would happen if the SNP got trashed in the GE and Yousaf got replaced by an evangelical Christian fundamentalist. It's the kind of thing that happens in the USA, but in the SNP's case it would be by lethargy, and the result would be that they could forget the support of the tictok generation thereafter.
DeleteMore important to get the vote of the older generation and of the Christian community than of the tiktok generation.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteYes. God help us (no pun intended) if our future lies with the tiktok generation. When did it become such a crime in Scotland to be old or a Christian?
DeleteAgree that the old and Christian vote is very important and Kate Forbes will be helpful in getting it for the SNP.
DeleteK C - 😂😂😂😂😂😂 for someone who complains about me posting too much here YOU are again posting - but not only that the exact same message - get behind the SNP - because?????????
DeleteUnlike you I have no problem with you posting because your posts lack substance. Just highlighting your double standards. Keep on posting K C.
KCs posts do contain substance. They make sense. If everyone who supports independence got behind the SNP it would be very helpful in terms of the election.
DeleteWell IFS, if a lot of people do what they’re threatening to do at the GE, and the SNP lose say half of their seats (or worse), and the nationalist share of the vote is say 35%, we can hardly claim independence is the settled will of the Scottish people can we???
DeleteAnybody that mentions independence in the aftermath of a humping like that’ll just be laughed at.
Agree 100% with KC. It's only by voting for SNP at the upcoming election (and not for the other parties) that Scottish independence can be kept in the lime-light. This is because splitting the vote is very unhelpful.
DeleteAnonymous at 8.10am - I asked K C to explain his comments on three seperate occasions. I got nothing back. The final one was insulting plus he said he was too busy to explain but just keeps posting the same basic assertion anyway. Funny way to get someone to vote for your party - insult them.
DeleteIFS, pathetic comment. You can’t even respond to my last post. I wonder why!
DeleteK C - funny way to get someone to vote for your party - insult them. K C unlike you I can respond. Your point about the settled will is silly as no one has ever claimed that in the past or now or even after a UK GE which is not a de facto referendum. So in summary the election is not a vote on independence so your assertion bears no scrutiny at all. Now if it was a de facto referendum then that would be different but it ain't - its get rid of Tories or a strong voice in Westminster and such crap. SNP politicians talking crap along with supporters like you.
DeleteIFS, The GE isn’t a de facto referendum because the SNP know they wouldn’t win it. We need to get support for independence up above 50% before we even consider anything like that.
DeleteSurely that is obvious.
K C - no it is not obvious or correct.
DeletePeople like K C don't want a de facto referendum because they either don't want independence or they don't want independence. No reason why every election cannot be a de facto referendum. So there is this option or the nuSNP option of doing SFA.
DeleteSick of reading this tripe about getting greater than 50% in the polls for a sustained period. It's already happened and Sturgeon as Lloyd said today in the Covid Inquiry did nothing with it - not a thing on independence. She could have called a de facto referendum for May 2021 when Yes was riding high in the polls but she went for a mandate for Indyref2 (fools gold for the SNP fools). As long term readers on SGP will know I called for a de facto in 2021 but SNP numpties said Nicola knows best. She will get us a " proper referendum" they said. The egg is still on their faces. Some have quietly slipped away recognising they have been had by Sturgeon. The others still have the egg on their face but are too stupid to recognise it.
What nonsense you spout ifs.
DeleteK C - you are now entitled to join my fan club but please wipe the egg of your face first. Entry is free.
DeleteThe GE isn’t a de facto referendum because the SNP know they wouldn’t win it. We need to get support for independence up above 50% before we even consider anything like that.
DeleteI thought your fear was that if the SNP fell to 35% then "we can hardly claim independence is the settled will of the Scottish people". But now you're saying we already can't claim that.
Of course a bad result for the SNP will lead to the media crowing that independence is finished as an issue, but so? I think your posts contain an unspoken belief that the public are very easily led and will stop supporting independence if the media say it's no longer cool. Maybe that's true; on the other hand, independence has been supposed to be finished about six or seven times since 2007 and here we still are
Of course we can’t claim independence is the settled will. We need to get support above 50%, that should be pretty obvious.
DeleteThat being the case, if the SNP vote drops to 35%, what do we lose that we currently have?
DeleteWith all this internecine warfare and dissent amongst the clans the Unionists are pulling sneaky ones as is their sneaky sneaky way, and has been for many centuries sadly.
ReplyDeleteThere's a con job on Scotland (no, really?) doing the rounds, that 13 frigates were promised, and 13 are being built in Scotland. Before it was that 13 warships were being built in Scotland as promised. This relies on us being zipped up at the back and nodding like nodding dogs. Well "woof" to that.
The older one relied on us being unable to tell the difference between a Type 26 frigate at £1.3 billion (for the first batch) and 6,900 tons, and an OPV at £127 million and 2,000 tons. Yeah, right.
The new one relies on us being unable to tell the difference between the Type 26, and the Type 31 at £250 million and 5,700 tons. So it's more subtle, being not much different in tonnage. It's also based on the Danish Ivor-Huitfeldt hull design, which makes it cheaper.
So what?
The original promise of 13 Type 26 frigates would have used basically the same new design hull; it was planned that 8 would be for anti-sub, and the other 5 as General Purpose frigates (GPFF). BUT on the same hull, and this is where so much of the cost came in for the type 26, and the design delays:
"Their hull form and propulsion system have a low acoustic signature to avoid interfering with passive sonar also makes it harder for submarines to detect the ship."
https://www.navylookout.com/a-guide-to-the-type-26-frigate/
The promise wasn't for 13 warships. nor was it for 13 frigates, it was specifically for 13 Type 26 frigates on the Clyde, at least on the same hull. It was also for 13 on the Clyde, not 8 on the Clyde and 5 on the Forth.
Any attempt to fool us otherwise, is an outright sneaky lie, relying on a total absence of punters like me who have a clue. Well, go home tae think again.
Excellent piece thanks.
ReplyDeleteRP
ReplyDeleteThis list shows why Yousaf was elected in the first place. It's not good reading. Forbes would get monstered unfortunately. A shame. In a parallel universe where reputations were not sullied and culture wars didn't reign supreme a Forbes FM, Salmond Constitutional Minister is a winning combination. But not this one.
Looking at that, we're absolutely goosed. It's why Yousaf is in power, he's holding a posioned chalice and taking one for the team until some new blood come through.
I don't think independence supporters understood how lucky we were to have Sturgeon and Salmond. Twice in a lifetime politicians.
Interesting take. A couple of objections though.
Delete1. Forbes very almost won last year. Her position will be stronger after an election drubbing for Team Nicola.
2. Nicola and Salmond were twice in a lifetime politicians? Pish. They both grew into their rôles.
Nicola only became Nicola once she took over at Bute House. For a while, she thoroughly impressed me with her confidence and quick wits in front of opponents and the cameras. Only slowly did her government heap disappointment upon disappointment, indy mandate after mandate was wasted, and she ended her career, of course, by screwing us. She definitely had talent, which shined when she got the job, but her political compass proved to be 180º off.
Salmond wasn't made in a day, either. This is all before my time, but I've heard about his young wilderness years in the 79 Group—the genesis of the modern left of centre SNP—before he burst into my awareness as a kid with the "Free by '93" campaign. I was much too young to vote, but I was up for it! Sadly, Scotland was not, we wasted our votes on Troughing Brits who landed us 5 more years of Tory rule. Well done, adults. I sympathise with the young Scots who couldn't vote in 2014 and went through a similar disappointment. How many of them are leaving the party and the movement now?
My point is: great talents grow into the rôle. Kate shined very brightly when she was thrown into the post of Finance Minister when her superior was caught up to no good. I think she'd make a superb First Minister and de facto leader of the independence movement.
Never count Scotland out.
Many Christians will support Kate.
DeleteI’m no Christian yet I’m convinced she's the one available talent who could save the SNP *and* the independence movement.
DeleteI know the media will monster her for her (non-Muslim, non-Jewish) faith. But she's a hell of a lot quicker on her feet than that eijit Tim Farron who they trampled when leader of the Lib Dems. If anyone can make a strength of the media's fascination, it's Kate.
Speaking of media witch hunts: led by the shameless BBC, they pounced on Glenn Hoddle's belief in reincarnation when he was England manager with fierce effect, so it's not strictly a Christian thing. I think if you're non-white, you're safe.
I think you live on Twitter, Anon 9.53! it's not important in the real world where people are in practice quite conservative socially.
Delete@10:01 I've never actually used it, even back before Musk made the worst of it. Social media makes me boak.
DeleteNot to make this a thread about religion, but I will point out the pitiful state of Christianity in Scotland. Churches sold off by the score because they have no congregations, once mighty institutions like the Church of Scotland reduced to less regular attendants than a lower division football team, and the wee free church down the road from me has never been busier since its recent sale and redevelopment into a mosque.
Scots are irreligious. Support for banning abortion here is almost nonexistent. We are not Tennessee. And I say that as someone with friends there: it's a lovely place, with thoroughly dependable and certain people, which feels like Scotland did a couple of centuries ago when we had Calvin's fire in our bellies: for better AND for worse! Woe befall you getting any healthcare there…
On the subject of religion, here are the 10 SNP Commandments
Delete1 I am the transgender God, thou shalt have no gods before me
2 Thou shalt not take the name of Nicola in vain
3 Remember to keep holy the Month of Pride
4 Honour daft Humza and the Murrells
5 Thou shalt kill independence (Nicola)
6 Thou shalt commit adultery (Humza, allegedly)
7 Thou shalt steal the indyref2 money (Peter, allegedly)
8 Thou shalt bear false witness (the Alphabetties)
9 Thou shalt covet thy neighbour's wife (Nicola, allegedly)
10 Thou shalt covet thy neighbour's ass (Peter, allegedly)
Kate Forbes is a very good ambassador for Christianity, and for the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland.
DeleteFelix - nice one. I would just make one amendment to no.6 Humza (actually and Humza allegedly)
Delete"Forbes would get monstered unfortunately. A shame. In a parallel universe where reputations were not sullied and culture wars didn't reign supreme a Forbes FM, Salmond Constitutional Minister is a winning combination. But not this one."
ReplyDeleteI do not with this. Culture wars are important on X (formerly Twitter). But that's not very important in the real world. There are many voices in the media that would have sympathy for a more socially conservative standpoint from the SNP. Certainly, SNP is losing votes because of its current socially liberal standpoint which is unattractive to many voters and receives criticism in the media.
Kate Forbes would be able to draw a line under the socially liberal era. The more socially conservative elements media would support that.
I reckon she's too canny to take a hard turn to the right: the very allegation her opponents threw at her, to scare supporters off. Her beliefs are her own, and Scotland is very much a left of centre.
DeleteBut I do agree that she'll draw the harmful culture wars / identity politics era to a close. The Greens will hate her for that, but Scotland will breathe a sigh of profound relief!
Sturgeon's fixer, liar and all round bad egg Liz Lloyd is in front of the UK Covid Inquiry today. Despite the Parliamentary Inquiry in to Sturgeon's persecution of Salmond including special advisors in its title not one of them appeared before the Inquiry. Will Lloyd say it wisnae anything to do with me guv - that big girl Sturgeon did it and ran away.
ReplyDeleteSturgeon uses the f bomb. Who would have known. She got that right in calling Johnson a f*****g clown.
DeleteLloyd confirms that they completely shelved independence during Covid. The only people talking about it were the Britnat media and Britnat politicians. Lloyd has a very high um count when talking which is irritating.
DeleteLloyd continuing to say the SNP government did nothing on independence ( no surprise there) much to the annoyance of the KC who has been reading the English papers published in Scotland.
DeleteLloyd says her new post in 2021 did not involve any work on indeoendence.
DeleteThe Kings counsel keeps beating the drum that independence was affecting Covid. Lloyd says 180 page programme for Government had only 1.5 pages on independence.
DeleteSo far from what I have heard the Scottish government did nothing on independence - not a surprise.
DeleteSturgeon likes to swear. St Nicola image wobbling a bit there. Perhaps what she was hiding in her deleted Whattsapp was simply that she swears a lot.
Yousaf on this afternoon at 2pm. Perhaps it might be more interesting.
DeleteLloyd says their strategy on Covid was to be honest and transparent. That must have been a real challenge for her and Sturgeon.
DeleteK C says Lloyd provided Whattsapp messages and the messages Sturgeon subsequently provided just happened to be the same messages.
DeleteThe judge in the Inquiry goes back to independence and Covid. They are desperate to try and say independence was a problem re Covid. Lloyd once again says they did nothing on independence therefore it had no affect on Covid.
DeleteIt appears that Sturgeon did not use a government phone but used a private phone for personal and government work. Even Lloyd said she would be concerned about security.
DeleteIFS, the SNP and Sturgeon in particular tried at every opportunity to make political gain during Covid. Trying to score cheap political points out of a tragedy. This was typical Sturgeon, and was not only pathetic, but utterly disgraceful.
DeleteSo Yousaf deleted his Whattsapp but then subsequently managed to access them on a old phone. So he both managed to follow the government guidelines and give them to the Covid Inquiry. It should be remembered that who makes the Government guidelines - Sturgeon. So , in essence, she is following guidelines she made to delete the messages.
Delete