For Episode 4 of the Scot Goes Popcast, I was joined by Ellen Höfer, the creative director of EU Citizens for an Independent Scotland. Topics we discussed include...
* The new Opinium poll showing Yes ahead by 51% to 49%.
* The threat of deportation and a 'hostile environment' hanging over EU citizens if they don't sign up for settled status.
* What we know and what we don't know about how EU citizens voted in the 2014 indyref, and how they would vote in a second referendum.
* Why EU Citizens for an Independent Scotland didn't actually want to stop Brexit.
* The legislation that has extended the electoral franchise in Scotland to all residents regardless of nationality, and to some prisoners.
* Whether Nicola Sturgeon should resign if she is adjudged to have broken the ministerial code.
* Why Ellen feels the hashtag #IStandWithNicola is totally inappropriate.
* Why Ellen left the Scottish Green Party last year, and why she doesn't expect to be involved in party politics again.
If you run into any problems with the embedded player below, the direct link to the podcast is HERE.
I feel very lucky still to be an EU citizen (Irish) along with my family (French).
ReplyDeleteMy EU relations originally hoped that the UK would remain, but the hatred shown towards them by the leave campaign made them switch and think it probably best England left. They'd all love to see Scotland come back.
Data shows that 1.3 million (2% of the entire population) young / skilled foreign workers have already left due to brexit and the hostile atmosphere in the UK for non-natives. They won't be coming back. Folks are going to emerge from their homes to an economically ruined, angry, isolationist, racist ghost town Britain.
Meanwhile, the committee thing is definitely having an impact:
https://www.thenational.scot/news/19175639.snp-welcome-membership-boost-12-500-people-sign-party-march/
SNP welcome membership boost as 12,500 people sign up to party in March
This surge began after Sturgeon's appearance on the 5th of march I understand, so has happened in only 2-3 weeks.
And 60% of the new members are women.
DeleteDo you have any knowledge of what the total membership number now is? That seems to be a state secret all of a sudden.
DeleteIn 2014 we had about 25,000 in total. That increase is about half of what we had before the referendum.
DeleteI don't know. I imagine a bit down the peak of a few years ago hence not wanting to give English right wing sites a chance to mock them and say indy support has fallen / Scottish democracy is a failure.
DeleteBut that's only to be expected given support for indy retreated somewhat after the brexit vote as people went into a wait and see mode / some Yes voters voted for Scexit.
Support for the SNP and membership are linked to support for indy; so if that retreats / indy looks off the cards, nothing the SNP can do will stop a retreat from them too if they are still pushing for it. Anyone that tries to tell a different story is deliberately trying to mislead people. The SNP can't push indy on the public; that will lose them votes. They have to gently persuade and be ready to act on public desire when the next wave starts, like now.
This absolutely applies when satisfaction well exceeds vote share, which has been the case with the SNP since back before 2011. The remain very popular, but are not going to win more that the share that's ready for indy, with a good bit of that going to the greens too, which is healthy.
Anyway, the direction of travel is important. 25k new members in a week is incredible and shows that people saying the SNP are increasingly unpopular due to policies / inactivity on indy is just talking unionist mince.
Ironically, if Sturgeon is forced out by unionists for what the electorate don't perceive as being anything bad, the SNP vote could well surge in response.
It's like the nasty guy getting someone popular at work sacked for some minor infringement. It's not going to make him more popular, but instead cause a backlash.
I don't believe those figures for a second but it would be very interesting to see how many have torn up their membership cards in the same period
DeleteSturgeon could have gone down in history as the person who led Scotland to freedom from the UK. When she took over the SNP she had everything going for her. Up until her surrender speech in Jan 2020 I still held out hope that could still be the case.
ReplyDeleteSturgeon will now go down as a nasty piece of work who tried to jail her mentor and friend, another Toom Tabard who sold out Scotland.
Independence for Scotland/Wings Over Scotland will go down in history as being not being what they claim to be. No real friends to the Independence movement in Scotland. When Scotland votes for independence we will pay tribute to all those who made it possible, people past and present.
DeleteDavid Martin
Wings has failed Scots. Where was the headline about the MSP code being broken? Instead he just rushed out his anti-Yes story in concert with the BBC and Sky.
DeleteI used to read wings for an alternative viewpoint. Now there's no need as the content is identical to the spectator, conservative home, BBC etc. If I want to read that Scottish democracy is a failure and Sturgeon is an evil witch I can do that on sites with much better writing standards, graphics and layout.
What about the UK government breaking the ministerial code again over external income declarations? They do that all the time yet wings steers clear. But maybe someone in the SNP has possibly done it and his attack stories for a year.
#wheeshtfortheunion
Guys a total f'n hypocrite. Latest story is all about SNP accounts being secret and stuff when it's all available online.
DeleteWhere's all the wings cash gone? He never publishes anything about where all the money donated to him goes and any funding he might be getting from elsewhere.
Ask about seeing the wings accounts and it's an immediate ban. I did donate in the past for polls and the WWB. Where didn't my cash go? A poll is only a few k.
https://archive.is/sH1OD
"He claims to have raised £900,000 in crowdfunding for Wings Over Scotland over the past seven years"
Where's all that gone? Surely he can produce it or show donators how it's all been spent?
Nice flats in central Georgian Bath cost a pretty penny...
To state the obvious, I don't hold any brief for Wings, but I think he's been fairly open about using a fair chunk of the funds as his own salary, and there's nothing wrong with that - no matter how objectionable anyone might find his content, no-one can doubt that he puts in a lot of work. He's commissioned polls, although I would imagine that's a fairly small percentage of the funds, because in recent times he's mostly done tack-on questions to other people's polls rather than commission full-scale polls. I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it has gone into his legal battle against Kezia Dugdale.
DeleteMy point is simply if you want to e.g. attack the SNP over transparency when it comes to donations / accounts, you need to actually publish your own accounts and where donations to you have gone. He spends his time trying to show us how the SNP apparently don't like being asked about accounts (when this is all freely available online), yet ask the same of him and your post will never see the light of day.
DeleteI can't stand hypocrisy. I happily contribute to your fundraisers and don't feel the need for you to show me your returns. However, if you start demanding others detail theirs, I'll ask for you to do the same.
And his articles these days are cut and paste jobs from the MSM. I doubt he spends more than 30 mins on each. Doesn't even have to man the twitter account now. I write longer posts than his articles and manage that on coffee breaks from a real job.
SNP had income of £5.3 million last year. About 10x the income of the Scottish Greens for a party with a membership/vote about 10x the size. 25k new members would be a cool extra 125k a month on a £5 fee average. £3/4 of a million in six months. And new members keep coming in.
This is a party with plenty of members, donators and access to a lot of funding. All of it detailed online. Hardly a suprise for one that is very popular and gets such a large share of the vote.
If you 'ringfence' cash, it means you are planning it into future spending, not keeping it in coppers under the mattress. Only a financial idiot keeps £600k in cash sitting round doing f'all. If you know you can produce it when needed at short notice, you don't keep it in a jar, but use it to grow your income, invest, promote your cause etc. 600k is just 11% of turnover for the SNP; it's nothing. They should be able to produce that in a couple of days if needed. I'm involved in a uni spin out of a small size. 10% of turnover is naff all. You could lose that for years if it looked like you were on course longer term to make it back and more. Of course the SNP don't even need to borrow; they just need to kick the ringfence plan into action if the have notice, which they do.
And the SNP should revel in all the cash they can get from Westminster (short money etc) as it is Scots taxpayers's money. It's not some union bribe. It's my f'n money. Oil revenues etc. Scots cash coming back to Scotland. Unlike wings, where donations go to fund stuff in the South of England.
I really struggle now to think Campbell was ever behind Scottish indy. A Stephen Daisley it seems.
"Doesn't even have to man the twitter account now."
DeleteYou're doing him a disservice. He promotes Ghanaian tourism on a daily basis.
wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it has gone into his legal battle against Kezia Dugdale.
DeleteSo a failed legal battle that was clearly going to fail costing hundred of K to scots who put in their hard earned cash.
Has all the legal advice he got been published? If not why not? did he pursue the case against legal advice throwing donators cash away in the process?
Smearer Skier (liar since 2014) and hypocrite says "I can't stand hypocrisy."
DeleteAh, you're back 🤣
Delete"Scotland in Union" you really are "a gift that keeps on giving"
Vote SNP 1 and 2 and ignore this witless acolyte of Lord haw haw from Bath.
Smearer Skier (liar since 2014) - in his rants above about Wings and finances Smearer makes no mention of the the reports that 3 members of the SNP Finance and Audit Committee have resigned because Murrell wouldn't' t let them see the books.
DeleteAh, the quarter wit oldpete has wandered off reservation again.
DeleteWings held fundraisers specifically for the Dugdale case and the subsequent appeal. He took a vote on whether to pursue the appeal. Nobody was forced to donate and nobody was misled into donating.
DeleteThere are legitimate criticisms of Stu Campbell, but this is basic, extremely public information. Innuendo and smear don't work when the facts are available.
David Martin who are you? Who do you claim to be?
DeleteI'm reliably informed SNP Membership is 125,000 plus and still rising.
ReplyDeleteIf so when the gloves come off in the next few weeks we can use our superior manpower to create the momentum to make the push for independence inevitable.
OR We can get all negative and say its all going wrong.
I say target the constituency unionists who've fought hardest against independence, and make sure the voters know that voting for them weakens the Scottish Parliament and simply reinforces London rule.
If the SNP leaflets don't prioritise independence over all else - print your own.
"I'm reliably informed SNP Membership is 125,000 plus and still rising."
DeleteWith the best will in the world I simply don't believe that. If that was the number they wouldn't be keeping it secret, they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.
Membership went from 118K in 04/18 to 125k in 08/18. Support for the party and independence has been growing consistently since + there has been 2 elections aswell as brexit. I can recall a few periods where the membership surged by 10k at a time. I'm sure equally there has been pissed off members walking away. I find the estimated number to be completely plausible. All speculation until figures are updated
DeleteThey would be perfectly plausible if they were publicly available. The secrecy is a strong indication that 100,000+ is not plausible.
DeleteOnly has to be less than the previously announced peak a few years ago post 2014 for the England based media / blogs to assure us all that 'Scottish democracy has failed and there's no way forward for it'.
DeleteJames you try to introduce a bit of common sense but some people just prefer propaganda.
DeleteMy branch went up in Dec 19 and has had a small dip since countered by a small rise in the last couple of weeks. We haven't had much in the way of the fluctuations that seem to have occurred in the big city branches which presumably have more students etc. Just going by our own numbers I would say membership is over 100,000 but impossible to tell if we are a typical branch or not. I'm guessing a lot of the new members are people that are lapsed or left over policy issues and now feel they are ready to rejoin.
DeleteUnfortunately IFS, Alex Salmond because of his own behaviour made himself a target and a scandal waiting to happen.
ReplyDeleteWhether the civil service or the unionist press made hay with the opportunity, he set himself up by his unchancy attitude towards women.
Alex should stop listening to his more rabid supporters and have a long hard think about where if anywhere he wants to go in politics.
Not fast forward but pause would be the wise decision IMO.
Unfortunately, Ramstam Sturgeon by her behaviour made herself a target and a scandal waiting to happen. She set herself up by her lack of common decency and a believe she is above the law.
DeleteWho is targeting her IfS?
DeleteSmearer Skier (liar since 2014) - why are you so dumb Smearer - there is no way you are an academic.
DeleteCan you show us some of the attacks you claim sturgeon is under Ifs?
DeleteSmearer Skier ( liar since 2014) - you are the dumb in dumb and dumber.
DeleteSmearer Skier (liar since 2014) - can you show me where the promised draft independence referendum bill the SNP promised would be available for scrutiny by now.
DeleteIFS or Lord Ha Ha still keep this trolling insults flying. Try to debate without insulting others. Then we can all having a civilised debate.
DeleteDavid Martin
David Martin people like you are a joke - a clown really 🤡.
DeleteYou come on here insult me and then complain about insults. Every one of you who have done this are a joke thst includes people like Marcia - first post referencing me an insult.
I only insult people who insult me in the first instance. People normally like you that cant come up with anything useful to say and just insult.
People who post questions to me respectfully get respectful replies - that ain't you Martin.
Stuart Campbell is a private individual, running what used to be a pro-Indy blog, financed by crowdfunding. My attitude to crowdfunding is that if I find the blog to be interesting, and feel that it is important to keep it going, I contribute. Having contributed, it is none of my business what the blogger does with my money. I don't have "co-ownership" of the blog, and have no say in the blog's contents.
ReplyDeleteFor these reasons, I contribute what little I can to the blogs I feel are important. This used to include Wings, but I finally stopped contributing, when he became abusive towards me when I commented, and when he blocked me from commenting all together. This wasn't because I fundamentally disagreed with him, but simply because I wouldn't fawn all over him and his objectionable comments.
Something fundamental happened to Campbell during the Dugdale caee, because that was the point at which he stopped being an anti-unionist tool, and became just a tool. His "poll" concerning the Wings party formation was an absolute joke, and since that time, when he didn't get the results he was obviously expecting, he has developed into the "Incredible Sulk".
You kind of have to have a big ego, if you are publishing a blog, but in Stu's case, it is a tragic example of the ego expanding to the point where failing to agree with his every word results in being banned.
Wrt the SNP numbers, of course the numbers have retreated from the high point of around 125,000. The fact that they SNP aren't proclaiming the numbers is almost definitive proof of that. However, what IS interesting is the reaction of SOME people to what SHOULD be a "good news" story. Instead of the glass being half full, SOME folk are pointing out that the glass is half empty. Why? Can you imagine if the Scottish tory membership had suddenly jumped by 10,000, that any TORIES would be reacting by pointing out how the membership numbers had been dropping for years? These "supposed" SNP members who are pointing out previous membership drops are showing their support in a pretty strange way!!
Was also a Wings supporter. Have a collection of fund raising memorabilia, playing cards, beanie hat, hardback WBB etc. + happy meet ups in the Counting House.
DeleteI thought taking Kezia to court was ill advised. Not because I thought the case was wrong but because it was an area easy for the establishment to fudge. The ruling hit Stu hard and the site has never been the same since. I used to look forward to the daily deconstruction of the news headlines, now I rarely visit. Gender politics doesn't interest me and the constant worrying of SNP politicians seems counterproductive. Below the line is awash with Tory concern trolls piling fuel on the fire. Most are a tad obvious though.
Don't really go for conspiracies but if I had to pick one, the remarkable turnaround at Wings is as if MI5 have a gun at Stu's head when he types. However, the truth may be more prosaic and Stu is just very angry at the SNP, Scottish Courts, Twitter, Aberdeen's appalling inability to score and life. If we have another referendum I hope he can put all that to one side and is able to pitch in. Yes is a banner we should all be able to rally around (excepting Unionists obviously).
James, whether you believe 125,000 or not nobody can deny the enthusiasm of thousands of new members.
ReplyDeleteNobody joins a political party unless they're champing at the bit to make a difference.
I'm an optimist. Three of the younkers in my family are exercising their right to vote in May for the first time.
I'm so proud that they'll all be voting SNP.
Time is on our side.
Did somebody say this is the "opportunity of a lifetime"?
If so let's not let it pass us by.
My wee girl has two years to go. She is French-Sottish and can't wait to vote
DeleteSmearer Skier(liar since 2014) Is your wee girl proud that her dad is a lying smearing hypocrite. Or is this just another of your lies.
DeleteSkier, enjoy your time with your kids. My granddaughter is voting for the first time in this election, and her enthusiasm is infectious.
DeleteAlex I hope she is not voting for your old Britnat Labour in Scotland party. How many decades did you vote for them Alex. How long did you vote to keep Scotland in chains. You say below I am less intelligent. Nope you were the one voting for the UK for decades. You are the stupid one Alex. You are still stupid in trusting Sturgeon even when she fitted up your hero Salmond. How stupid is that.
DeleteHopefully your granddaughter hasn't got your stupid gene.
I should care about her opinon on a hashtag - why? By the way, I once 'stood with Alex Salmond'. Now I stand with Nicola Sturgeon and anyone who doesn't like it...
ReplyDeleteJRTomlin - best get your wellies on because you will be standing in the gutter with Sturgeon.
DeleteYou, IFS or Lord Ha Ha are already in the gutter. I suppose we shouldn't stoop down to your level, so apologies to everyone else.
DeleteDavid Martin
David Martin, got your wellies on as well.
DeleteDavid Martin, I wouldn't worry about it, mate. As trolls go, he's one of the less intelligent but more annoying ones. Keep at it, though and you'll eventually just laugh at him for clown value......
DeleteAlex Birnie another stupid troll.
DeleteJR, I guess you'll stand and fall for anyone then.
DeleteWhy should you care for my opinion on the hashtag? Indeed you shouldn't and haven't which is why it's been strange so see you still following me on Twitter. I've fixed that now for your convenience. All the best.
"Scotland in Union" the gift that keeps on giving 🤣 ☺
ReplyDeleteSNP 1 and 2 in southern Scotland.
Cowardly Oldpete - too scared to ask WGD.
Delete🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓🐓
Note to all the stupid Sturgeon followers. Some of us want independence not propaganda about party membership numbers.
ReplyDeleteSo I ask again where is the draft independence referendum bill that was supposed to be available for scrutiny by now?
So I ask again where is the Referendum money? Were the three members of the SNP Finance and Audit Committee who resigned trying to find out where it went when Peter Murrell said you cannae look at the accounts?
Cue insults from the people who complain about getting insults or just plain silence.
Sensible debate from people suffering from cognitive dissonance obviously is asking too much.
Lord Ha Ha with his own stupid propaganda. It is so funny having to read something so stupid. Have a lie down and a rest. Attention seeker extraordinaire .
DeleteDavid Martin
Cue insult from David Martin - the person who cannot even give himself a moniker.
DeleteOf course no intelligent debate from Martin. Thats what he said he wanted but when presented with difficult questions he just resorts to type - a clown 🤡 who only has the capacity to insult.
If only some people could see themselves as others see them.
DeleteDavid Martin
David Martin - I see you 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Delete"Scotland in Union" the gift that keeps on giving🤣😂🤣
DeleteThe "Bathman's" little helper on this site.
Back to reality SNP 1 and 2 in Southern Scotland.
EU threatening to stop exports of the Astra Zenika vaccine to the UK.
ReplyDeleteIn previous btl discussions some other posters said I was wrong to say this vaccine was produced in the EU and that it was all produced in the UK. They said zi was getting mixed up with the Pfizer vaccine. Well if that was the case how are the EU threatening to stop exports to the UK.
This best of British vaccine made in Britain vaccine is just British propaganda. The Pfizer vaccine is not called the Mainz Pfizer vaccine but in the UK we have the Oxford vaccine from the British propaganda broadcasters and media.
I watched the Sunday Show for the first time today. Adam Tomkins and Mike Russell were on - found them both to be disgusting. Tomkins wants to Smear Salmond and get Sturgeon. Russell just deflects about the leak from the Committee and actually says Salmond was found guilty - then corrects himself. Both united in Smearing Salmond. Neither wants the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
ReplyDeleteIt was useful as Russell says the draft referendum bill will be published this week. However, he says it will say " we will hold an independence referendum when the time is right to hold it and that will be at the conclusion of the pandemic. Nobody is suggesting anything else......"
At least I won't be asking all you SNP members where the draft referendum bill is.
So all you deluded people thinking there will be a referendum anytime soon need to wake up.
An election can be held in a pandemic but a referendum cannot - pathetic excuse just pathetic.
What are you doing to further the cause IfS?
DeleteSmearer Skier (liar since 2014) - I'm not lying and smearing like you do Smearer.
DeleteI think you will find he has done nothing and will do nothing but troll blogs. Lord Ha Ha won't do any actual campaigning for Yes during the next referendum.
DeleteDavid Martin
Martin, all you do is troll. You don't even have the ability to allocate yourself a proper moniker.
DeleteSo Martin when is this referendum you are referring to going to happen? Go on smart arse tell me - Russell says it's when the pandemic is over - so as you are such a smart arse you can forecast when the pandemic will be over.
Hey smart arse unknown who calls himself David Martin so when is the pandemic going to end so this referendum is going to happen? All you can do is troll - you are no smart arse just a plain arsehole. So pissof with your trolling.
DeleteIt seems to me that there are several different kings of people in Scotland....
ReplyDelete1. Those who are desperate to get away from Tory rule. They recognise that the only sure way of doing that, is to put up with just about any behaviour, if it means getting independence.
2. Those who want independence, but are squeamish about the shady dealings that seem to be going on, and would rather not be led into independence by those who stoop to such tactics.
3. Those who genuinely are afraid of independence, and who prefer the status quo, for a myriad of reasons.
4. Tories, who recognise that an independent Scotland will almost certainly mean never having another Tory government.
5. The twisted bastards who are doing everything they can to bollix independence, using all sorts of Lord Haw Haw tactics, to sow dissent among yes voters. These people are scum, and supporters of independence shouldn't engage with them. I include Campbell amongst these, and the sick, sociopathic, middle-aged virgin who calls himself IFS.
So you are in category 5 then Alex? Well by your definitions you are.
DeleteBritnat Labour Alex - not only are you stupid but you cannae read well. I have previously posted I am married and my son went to the same school as one of Sturgeons Communications officers. You clearly are suffering from a bad case of cognitive dissonance.
DeleteHow long did you vote to keep Scotland in the UK? Took a long time for the penny to drop didn't it. Now you don't seem to have learned from that experience and are now an SNP party loyalist, no matter the evidence, instead of a Britnat Labour party loyalist. Perhaps you should consider apologising to people like me who you probably abused back then as well when you were a Britnat Labour man.
You missed out :
6. People who want independence but don't believe the SNP leadership will deliver it.
If the civil service screwing up a harassment case while a former politician falls out with past colleagues is the height of 'corruption' in an indy Scotland, I think we'll get on fine. I can't wait; bring it oan!
ReplyDeleteIf someone says they don't want independence 'cos of GRA or the hate crime legislation' they never wanted indy in the first place.
In an independent Scotland there will be legislation and governments we don't like. Some politicians will be corrupt. Some will have affairs. Some will commit sex crimes. Some will fiddle their expenses. And so forth. The difference will be that Scots will get the government most vote for and the laws most want.
Sorry I do respect you & your arguments but can’t resist this:
DeleteIn 2007, 2011 (yes even 2011) & 2016 Scotland got a government that most Scots did not vote for.
Democracy is messy but it’s the best we have. But we should respect results of democratic systems, whether at council level, Scotland level or UK level.
No, in all the elections you describe the outcome closely matched the way people had voted once those votes for parties which didn't meet the 5% regional threshold were eliminated.
DeleteThe SNP got over 50% of votes on the PR list following the above, so won an outright majority. Scots got what the voted for; almost perfect PR.
The 5% threshold in a region can be debated, but lowering it would likely mean the number of MSPs would need to be increased. It's not possible to have half a seat... And a line must be drawn somewhere.
What is obvious is Scots don't elect English politicians at all, yet these have disproportionate law making power for the UK. It should be one nation one vote, at least at 'senate' level, like the EU is.
Scots are banned from voting on English EVEL laws, but English politicians do so on Scots devolved areas as we saw recently with fisheries and brexit. EVEL also rules out Scots MPs as being able to hold high offices of state as they couldn't vote on many laws.
It's pure anti-Scottish racism.
I am Scottish & Irish. My wife is French. My daughter Scottish & French.
DeleteI am just a normal person which wants Scotland to be a normal country just like Ireland and France.
Smearer Skier (liar since 2014) - normal people do not continually lie and smear like you do.
DeleteI know what you’re saying about thresholds and votes that are therefore ‘wasted’ or ‘not counted’ but the fact is the SNP have never ever gained a majority of votes in any election ever, nor has independence won a majority in any referendum or any election where there been a manifesto commitment.
DeleteWe accept their right to govern on their own because of the electoral system and because they’re the most popular party.
Your point about Scots not electing English politicians is of course because Scotland and England are United in another Parliament. I bet Shetland don’t get who they vote for in Holyrood but that’s democracy if you’re also part of a bigger entity.
Smearer Skier (liar since 2014) corruption as follows:
Delete1. SNP personnel try to send Salmond to jail by falsifying charges.
2. SNP personnel encourage/induce other personnel to falsify charges.
3. Crown Office asssist in the cover up of the corrupt actions of the SNP personnel.
4. Crown Office carry out malicious prosecutions of independence supporters.
5. Scotgov targets Salmond with unlawful, unfair and tainted by apparent bias new process.
6. SNP and Scotgov personnel lie under oath both before a criminal jury and the Inquiry.
To someone like you Smearer that is obviously nothing to be concerned about but that is because you have a moral vacuum and it is not normal to accept such corruption.
The key point re independence is not whether you can accept that type of corruption but the fact that the current SNP leadership will not deliver independence because they don't want to.
The SNP don't have a majority. The whole chamber governs. The hate crime bill was supported by 4 parties / 72% of MSPs. How is that not 'Scots getting what they vote for'? How often does that happen in Westminster?
DeleteIn 2011 the SNP got a majority share of the valid votes used for seat allocation, so got a majority of MSPs. I understand only 1 bill (offensive behaviour at football matches) was passed during that parliament without the support of another party anyway, so that aside, the same applied as now and before.
The people of Edinburgh Central - where Holyrood is located - only voted 29% SNP. What of it? Edinburgh Central isn't a country. We discussing countries here, not constituencies. It's very anti-Scottish to try to reduce it to some sort of 'region'.
You can't one minute talk about our glorious union of countries then the next minute insult Scottish people by trying to reduce their ancient country to a mere region.
I am Scottish. It's my country along with Ireland. Britain isn't my country.
I accept that some people are emotionally attached to the idea of a British country (even though this doesn't exist). I'm not. I am Scottish / Irish as my wife is French.
I think domestic law in Scotland is a matter for Scots. I am normal; Scottish like my wife is French. I am of course a unionist though, thinking wider trade, human rights, freedom of movement important so I am pro EU/EEA.
The 'region' thing is up there with this...
DeleteI think the thing that revolts me most is when I'm told that somehow English people are more like me than my e.g. French wife. That Boris Johnson is more my blood and soil (?) than the woman I love. That a pensioner in England should matter more to me than my pensioner mother in law in Le Havre of my brother's mother in law in Pennsylvania...I mean WTF? What kind of deeply racist shit is this?
I have friends and family from across the world, from the USA to Iran. I have more in common with some folk from Isfahan than I do some from Ipswich.
The only thing I share in common with Scots is that we live in Scotland. That and we consider Scotland our country. I am Scottish and Irish. I don't think we should close the parliament of one and just given them a few seats in the other. Better that people living in Ireland decide how it's governed and likewise for Scotland.
The poor wee lamb, poor IFS. Still seeing what he wants to see.
DeleteUnknown - I see you 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
DeleteUnion 2.0
ReplyDeleteWhen was the last time a government in Westminster got >50% of the vote.
Cameron got 36.9% of the vote in 2015 to get his majority of MPs and his EU referendum in 2016 but Britnats like you are always prattling on about independence supporters needing to get >50% in Scotland to have a mandate. Stuff double standards like this.
A long time ago! 1950s? Or actually, come to think of it - 2010 was the last time a government got more than 50% of the vote.
DeletePlease don’t label me a Britnat. Yes I definitely think you need over 50% to break up a country. That’s not a Britnat thing to say.
Sometimes governments in Scotland (2011) and the UK (most the time) get a majority on a minority of votes, that’s an electoral reform issue unless you think majorities should be encouraged. I can see that one both ways.
Union 2.0 - so the UK is not a Union? If you think the UK is a unitary state then you are a British Nationalist. So union or not?
DeleteWhy do you need >50% to have a referendum?
Union 2.0 the Tories got 36% of the vote in 2010 and managed to govern for the most part with their coalition government with the Lib dem patsies.
DeleteSo the key point I was making is that it is only Britnats who expect independence supporters and the SNP to jump higher bars than they do to govern or have a mandate for a referendum.
I see. By that definition, yes. I thought you meant it in the pejorative way.
DeleteI just think, on principle, when you’re talking about splitting up a country, we all need to be sure it’s what a majority of the country wants (both in terms of having a referendum and the referendum itself).
It’s a matter of such importance that it shouldn’t be unnecessarily easy to do - that’s just my principle (and it’s not anti-democratic because it only requires 51%, many other referendums require supermajorities).
In 2010 the government got 59% of the vote.
Deletewhen you’re talking about splitting up a country
DeleteNobody's talking about that. We are talking about Scotland withdrawing from an international treaty between countries. Just like the UK did from the EU. The current UK treaty is just 100 years old. There are people alive who are older than the UKoGB&NI. When my gran was born, the UKoGB&NI didn't exist; ireland was whole.
A majority of MSPs is all that's needed for a referendum. Such a vote changes nothing in law; it just seeks public opinion. Scots can of course just say no if they don't want it. I can't understand why people fear voting; the swiss vote all the time in this way. It's really easy and nothing happens to you when you pop along to the village hall. Takes just a few minutes and people are friendly.
Unión 2.0, Scotland's AMS system was designed by the Labour Party, to suit what they thought would be good for them. They never imagined a situation where they wouldn't be the largest party. If they had been serious about making the parliament truly representative, while still retaining constituency MSP's, then they would have either had equal numbers of regional and constituency seats, or even better, 73 constituency seats with only one region for the whole of Scotland with 56 seats available, or even better, a variable number of regional seats, whereby seats would be allocated until the parliament was truly representative, possibly subject to minimum thresholds.
DeleteYou are quite correct about two things...... democracy should be respected, but it is imperative that those elected show the most respect. What happened in Aberdeen council was an affront to democracy.
Secondly, independence HAS never been voted for by more than 50% of those who voted. If that DOES happen in May, presumably you will disagree with Boris Johnson about a referendum?
I agree with you and yes I would disagree with Boris if it were the desire of the majority to have another referendum.
DeleteUnión 2.0, Scotland's AMS system was designed by the Labour Party, to suit what they thought would be good for them.
DeleteI often hear this said, but surely what would have been best for Labour would have been just to use straight FPTP? Introducing any element of proportionality could only hurt them. The argument that Labour designed the voting system to benefit them never really made sense to me, throwaway comments by Jack McConnell notwithstanding.
It is a proportional representation system designed to facilitate..... proportional representation. Which it pretty much does. Hence, you are represented by eight MSPs.
DeleteIf you think it was designed to favour any particular party, you have been misled.
Keaton,
DeleteOnly a few Labour politicians wanted devolution. The Scottish parliament was simply an attempt to "head off" the challenge that SNP were becoming to the hegemony that Labour had in Scotland.. No way did they want a body that could possibly challenge the supremacy of Westminster, and a coalition talking shop suited that purpose.
They made a fundamental error, but it didn't appear to be at the time, and for the first couple of elections, it went to plan. Even in 2007, when the SNP made the breakthrough, they still thought that the SNP would make an arse of governing.
They and the Tories and the Lib Dems will never make that mistake again. If they get a sniff of 65 seats between them, they'll form a grand coalition faster than we can say "Indy is dead".
The FPTP element was to ensure labour safe seats as a springboard to London, with the PR aspect to make sure pro-indy parties didn't get a majority.
DeleteBritnat Labour Alex you are pathetic. Cameron got his referendum on the EU with 36.9% of the vote but you bow and cringe to your old Britnat pals and say we need >50%. CRINGE.
DeleteI remember worrying about the Scottish parliament being a diversionary tactic by Labour, and when the details of the voting system became public, it confirmed my worries.
DeleteBlair and co were cynical about it, and I thought that Salmond was mad for taking the bait. However, Blair was wrong, Salmond was right. The problem nowadays, is that there are too many armchair generals who think they are smarter than the SNP leadership, and the internet has provided them with a megaphone to shout there inanities out in public, like our resident troll on here .... the ugly virgin who can't get a girlfriend...... 😂😂
There are a number of folk who think that their votes for independence should be worth more than those of their neighbours who want to remain in the U.K., These are the people who tend to bully and troll others, even those who are on the same side of the independence argument.
DeleteThese folks are so imbued with Nazi tendencies, that not only do they insult their neighbours who disagree with them about independence, using derogatory terms like "Britnats", they insult those who think that the pace of the journey towards independence depends on how successful we are being in persuading our neighbours to vote yes.
These "children"..... because that's what they are ..... children in the back seat of the car, wailing "Aren't we there yet?.....How much looonnger?".
Instead of saying "Let me help you up this wee hill towards independence, Mrs Brown" folk like TFS scream at them "Get up the hill, ya lazy auld Britnat bastard!".
When anyone tries to talk about catching flies with honey rather than vinegar, they snarl " If you're not using vinegar, you're a Britnat traitor".
These folk like TFS need to be called out for what they are ..... bloody nuisances.
Britnat Labour Alex - I can call you out for what you are in a few words unlike your rant - you are stupid and still have a good chunk of the the Cringe. How many decades did you support keeping Scotland chained in the UK Britnat Labour Alex. How many people did you convince to vote Labour?
DeleteSee when ranting Britnat Labour Alex it looks less like the ravings of a madman if there is some consistency to your insults and based on some measure of facts. Clearly facts, details, evidence are not your strong points.
There is no more ridiculous sight than a troll complaining about being trolled - that's you Britnat Labour Alex.
The UK is a sovereign state. The EU is an international organisation. That’s the difference - it’s much harder to break up any sovereign state.
ReplyDeleteBut, if the majority ever wanted out, I’d respect that.
Independence is easy. 25% of the world was ruled by London previously; all happily independent.
DeleteIt was only difficult when London made it so, and when it did that, it encouraged others to leave. So, for example, if London makes life hard for Scotland, it will encourage the Welsh to leave as well.
This is why Wales was 39% Yes in the latest poll. A record high never seen before. Higher than Yes in Scotland was in 2012.
DeleteThe Welsh are pretty unhappy about being told by England that England owns Wales and they can't have a vote on indy without English consent.
That’s a bit anti-English of you.
DeleteBuilding English castles in Wales to conquer the people was a wee bit anti-Welsh was it not?
DeleteGreat for the tourists though I suppose.
Stick your head in the sand if you like.
DeleteScots/Welsh/N. Irish are not trying to deny English people the vote. I think if England wants independence / elects a majority of pro-indy MPs, it should be able to freely vote on that.
https://archive.is/062V9
Brexit triggers spike in anti-Scottish sentiment in England, study finds
This is where the UK PM calling e.g. Scots 'vermin', French people (which includes my wife /daughter) 'turds' and black people 'piccaninnies with watermelon smiles' leads.
https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-03-05/the-united-kingdom-is-over-drakeford-says
DeleteThe United Kingdom 'is over', Drakeford says
Unionists ignore what's happening at their peril.
Union 2.0
DeleteSo there is no Union is what you are saying. So why do people call themselves unionists. You are a British Nationalist as defined by your own words. There is no England, no Scotland , no Wales, no N. Ireland is what you are saying.
Why is your moniker Union 2.0 ? Methinks like a lot of unionists/ British Nationalists you are a confused person.
Harsh.
DeleteIt’s Union 2.0 because it’s the idea of uniting all the Scottish people behind a third way of constitutional reform (FFA). So that we don’t continue to have the country divided 50/50 for years to come.
Union 2.0
DeleteYou may feel it is harsh but you cannot have it both ways. The UK is a Union or it is not. The fact that you have a difficulty with this shows how confused unionists are - one minute the UK is a unitary state the next minute it is a Union. That is plainly a nonsense position.
Union 2.0 implies that there was a union 1.0 but you say the UK is a unitary state. I rest my case - you are confused. The truth is like all unionists/British Nationalists you say the UK is a Union or a unitary state whenever each option suits your argument.
I suggest you change your moniker to CONFUSED UNIONIST/BRITISH NATIONALIST.
:-/
DeleteUnión 2.0, your last reply was not visible when I posted........
ReplyDeleteSkier, You ask what IFS is doing for the cause.
ReplyDeleteHe's doing plenty, but for his own obsession - not the cause of Scottish independence.
BTW Keith Brown promised an SNP rebuttal service ages ago and his failure to deliver means people are declaring 50% as a necessary SNP vote requirement in May.
50% is only required in a referendum, not a multi-choice election.
This should be blindingly obvious to anybody and be explained by SNP spokespeople before the campaign gets underway, otherwise we're setting ourselves up for the claim that we didn't win well enough with say 48%.
That would actually give an overall majority with the constituencies alone.
You have to wonder if some SNP Figures are capable of playing hardball when London turns nasty - as they will.
They've had centuries of experience of denying freedom to native peoples the world over.
Keith Brown is the elected deputy SNP leader. As such, I guess he is Nicola Sturgeon's closest rival. Perhaps that is why he has been unplatformed. Is he still even breathing?
DeleteVery much so it seems.
Deletehttps://twitter.com/KeithBrownSNP
Account header pic is one of him and sturgeon together.
You really need to try a bit harder there mouse.
https://twitter.com/KeithBrownSNP/status/1372824752386101248
DeleteBBC doubling down now with
@BBCGaryR
“the leak is a side show”. No. The leak is part of the strategy to subvert the entire process of an inquiry which started with a serious remit to examine important issues.
Ramstam - you are a funny guy. YOU post complaints about the SNP but YOU are not a Unionist are you but others who post complaints about the SNP are.
DeleteHey Ramstam now that Mike Russell has told us an independence referendum will take place when the pandemic is over - care to forecast when this will be.
DeleteOr alternatively a true party of independence would say we have a majority in the polls let's put a mandate in the May election for actual independence rather than hang about for possibly years waiting and waiting for Covid to go away.
Russell like the rest of them are devolutionists. They are taking people like you for mugs.
Smearer Skier ( liar since 2014) - what a charlatan you are. Only days ago you used to say that we should wait and see the final reports and people should stop acting like Trump supporters by undermining the credibility of the Inquiry. Now you are the one undermining its credibility with a spurious reason. You are the one acting like a Trump supporter.
DeleteWhat a charlatan with a great big brass neck you are Smearer.
I see Lord Ha Ha back to troll Ross again. Bless, you need to relax, all this angst must take its toll on your mental state.
DeleteUnknown - I see you 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
DeleteI did think we should wait and see the final report from the committee until unionists leaked selected partisan attacks to the English media, blogsites etc while unionist committee members did associated TV interviews.
DeleteThis, as the committee conveners complained, undermines the integrity of some of those tasked with writing the report and means we will have to question their particular conclusions.
It is a pity, as it has been a great example of democracy as the PO of the parliament says. Has any other country in the world had an 8 hour evidence session with their FM like that?
Smearer Skier (liar since 2014) - no other country has had a leader lie their face off in front of a parliamentary committee and smear a man found innocent in a criminal trial for eight hours. Truly disgusting
DeleteIf the leaks are to be believed, the committee has not concluded she lied. To lie, you must knowingly mislead.
DeleteSmearer Skier ( liar since 2014) - I don't need a Committee to tell me that you are a liar and I don't need a Committee to tell me Sturgeon is a liar.
Delete"When the pandemic is over" is simple actually.
ReplyDeleteIt's like an Elephant - Ye'll ken it when ye see it!
The usual suspects were telling us the election would be cancelled because of the pandemic as Scotland became a dictatorship ruled by PR parliament where no party had a majority. People that speak the truth said this was highly improbable.
DeleteBecause, well, it would be illegal not to hold the election, hence the all attempts to do so with emergency legislation required to delay only if it absolutely needed. Democracy requires a minimum time between votes that can't be exceeded except in the case of national emergencies.
There is no legal obligation to hold an iref on a particular date however and it should be held when the SNP/Green think they can win it. No 2 year campaign needed this time. Just put everything in place (like the referendum framework bill, franchise extension that have been passed and now the draft vote bill itself), including dealing with any court challenges, and be ready to go at a few weeks notice.
Don't give your opponents warning though. Find reasons to keep the date up in the air so they expend their ammo shooting in the dark. Reasons the public would nod to as they concern public health are ideal.
Ramstam you are being taken for a mug. Smearer on the other hand will be happy as he never wanted a referendum - he was happy for another 5 years of Tory Westminster rule.
DeleteSomeone's not happy with 51% Yes from opinium now 52% from BMG.
DeleteScottish parliament voting intention(s):
ReplyDeleteConstituency:
SNP: 46% (-4)
LAB: 23% (+3)
CON: 21% (-)
LDEM: 8% (+1)
List:
SNP: 39% (+1)
CON: 21% (-)
LAB: 20% (-)
GRN: 10% (-1)
LDEM: 8% (-)
via
@Survation
, 09 - 12 Mar
Chgs. w/ 26 Feb
That's the dodgy Scotland in union poll and with Fieldwork on the 9th march, it's nearly 2 weeks old.
DeleteIt is superseded by 51% Yes from opinium and now 52% Yes from BMG:
52% Yes / 48% No
Const:
48% SNP
21% Con
21% Lab
8% Lib
List:
42% SNP
22% Con
17% Lab
8% Lib
8% Green