One of the ideas apparently floated by the council, though, is that Shetland should instead become a self-governing crown dependency along the lines of Jersey or Guernsey. I'm sure whoever dreamt that up thought it was a brilliant unionist wheeze that would put the SNP on the spot (ie. "an independent Scotland isn't viable without Shetland's natural resources"), but actually we should be heartily encouraging it, because crown dependency status would by definition mean that Shetland has become the first part of Scotland to leave the United Kingdom. If unionists are championing Shetland's right to make that decision, how can they deny the rest of Scotland the same opportunity?
* * *
Douglas Ross' craven decision to vote in favour of a bill that both destroys the Scottish devolution settlement and breaches international law was roughly as predictable as David Mundell's failure to resign every single time he threatened to. But this episode does bring home that Ross' position is rather different from Alex Salmond's when leading the SNP from Westminster in 2004-7. As a Tory MP, Ross is not his own boss - he's subject to the Tory whip, and in theory to disciplinary action if he breaches the whip. If, for example, Tory MPs were to be told they would automatically lose the whip if they don't vote with the government, what discretion does Ross actually have? Could he credibly remain Scottish Tory leader if he has the whip withdrawn, which under the rules would automatically bar him from standing for Westminster as a Tory candidate? Doubtless none of this will ever be put to the test, because any rare show of resistance would be a carefully choreographed abstention - he'd probably be given special dispensation by the whips to miss the vote because he has to run the line at yet another all-important East Fife v Forfar match.
* * *
I can neither confirm nor deny rumours that the individual known in certain quarters as "the Random Totty From Freedom Square" drew the below picture of Jackson Carlaw and tucked it under the door of his office earlier today.
Controversially I think that most people in Scotland would settle for the kind of autonomy that a Crown Dependemcy would offer. Either that or something a bit like Dominion status that Canada and NZ had for some time. A final stepping stone before independence.
ReplyDeleteThat gap could be filled by Labkur and it is one which would provide them with a clearly different policy from either the Tories or SNP.
No, Scots *would have* settled for that six years ago or even four years ago. Scots how know that they cannot trust the UK gov't not to break or overturn any agreement.
DeleteJacob72
DeleteYou mean they would stick to the agreement like they did with the infamous VOW.
Westminster does not do honest, fair and reasonable. It does lies, deceit and misrepresentation. I wouldn't trust them with 50p never mind any agreement.
You just do not get it. The IMB has just put the final nail in the coffin of the Union. Shetland may want independence but being in Scottish waters they would only have a 12 mile maritime jurisdiction ( if that is the correct term) and hence no oil fields.When they realize this they will want to remain a part of Scotland.
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify that my above comment was to Jacob72
DeleteShetland doesn't want to separate from Scotland. Never has. This council vote was a set up to allow unionists to raise the spectre of partition.
DeleteAll part of the anti-indy campaign.
There's a lot more of this to come IMO.
All too little too late to turn back the tide.
Once a nation determines to become independent nothing will stop the momentum.
Orkney and Shetland are essentially identical to mainland Scotland in national identity.
ReplyDeleteShetland slightly less, but it has a lot of temporary resident oil workers that come and go.
Shetland:
60% Scottish only
2% Scottish & other
16% Scottish & British
12% British only
5% English only
6% Other
Orkney:
62% Scottish only
2% Scottish & other
14% Scottish & British
11% British only
6% English only
6% Other
Scotland:
62% Scottish only
2% Scottish & other
18% Scottish & British
8% British only
2% English only
5% Other
Where d'you get your figures from, Scottish Skier? Always quote sources.
Delete2011 census.
Deletehttps://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/
It'll be really interesting to compare next year's figures with those from 2011 considering everything that's happened during the last 10 years. I imagine the Scottish only and Scottish & other figures which are now at together 64% will go well over 75%.
DeleteI would imagine we will see a decline in British and increase in Scottish, if simply due to demographics.
DeleteBritish identity is strongest in those born just after the war, and declines from then on. Young Scots are the most Scottish identifying of any generation, at ~70% 'Scots only' by 2011. This group is of course growing, with the post war generation declining in number as each year passes.
It's a reflection of the decline of Britain / the British empire and Scotland's move to indy.
Both symptom and cause.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://sites.google.com/site/scotsthreip/magnus-s-opium/identity&ved=2ahUKEwiw_tnX0O3rAhUHTxUIHQ0fBK8QFjAMegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3UnnRug3Fdiw5IVrpRL-pw
DeleteThere is another Scottish Skier? I thought I was the only one :-)
DeleteCertainly, for clarity, I've never tried to 'drum up support for the SNP on Shetland', just noted the islanders gave essentially identical answers to the national identity question (Scots? British? English? both? etc) to mainlanders in the 2011 census.
I am never one to put views in the mouths of others; the 2011 census answers are of course the answers of people themselves. The identity one is really interesting as respondents were offere the choice, including to freely put Scottish and British, yet a large majority across the country put Scottish alone. They may recognise Scotland is part of the UK politically, ergo they are legally brits, but don't identify as British in any personal sense.
That aside, thanks for a very interesting read, including the section in Shetland dialect, which I am pleased to fine I can read without problems. I'm originally from the NE highlands myself, and can even understand Doric!
The census is too blunt an instrument to pick up the Orkney & Shetland identity.
DeleteThere is a strong feeling for being Orcadian or Shetlander as a distinct identity that is not typical Scots or British (and definitely not the other Island group)
Over many years the idea of autonomy has been floated but has very much been a minority interest. Trumpeting it now is mostly British mischief.
There would be interest in exploring greater autonomy, possibly even as far as a Faroe style set up. Very much doubt if there would be much support for increased centralisation on London or Edinburgh.
Agreed. Yes, the census just asked what which country people felt they nationally identified with. So that's what people answered. Orcadians and Shetlanders mainly replied 'Scots', just as all Scotland did. Sub-national identities were not asked about / explored.
DeleteObviously people were free to put Shetland as their national identity, e.g. because they supported an indy Shetland. That's what I did for Scotland even though it's not an actual sovereign state / 'country', but technically a region of the UK (for many Brit Scots, Scottish is a just a regional identity, not a national one). However, it seems almost nobody did for Shetland, which ties in with what you say. The Faroe Islands by contrast strongly nationally identify as Faroese rather than Danish; hence the international teams and almost complete indy etc.
I strongly identify with the NE Highlands; it is my distinct sub-national identity. I personally have never seen 'Scottish' as a single identity. Scotland is a diverse nation with many regional cultures which are variably distinct in culture, language/dialects etc. It is more unionists that see all scots as one monocultural haggis eating people; a regional identity like Yorkshire or something.
As someone of liberal democratic beliefs (ergo would never vote for the lib dems), I have always been supportive of more regional decision making. There's not need to confined such things to one part of Scotland.
I suspect the population of Moray is now less than 50% Scottish. We are being swamped.
DeleteAnyway, Johnson is setting the precedent that you can break international law to keep your country intact, even if the bit you are trying to hold onto doesn't want to stay.
ReplyDeleteIf Shetland decided that it did not want to be part of an independent Scottish state, it would be far more logical and likely that it would choose to rejoin Norway which it was historically part of, with which it has historical ties, which is not nearly so far away, and has to put it mildly a better reputation as a state.
ReplyDeleteWhich would end in further tears for the Westminster tyranny.
DeleteUS Irish lobby helping out again.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54171571
...Some US politicians are concerned about the UK government's plan to override parts of the Brexit divorce deal.
Mr Raab will meet US Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who last week said there would be no UK-US trade deal if the Northern Ireland peace agreement was undermined.
It's not that some US politicians are concerned - more or less every US politician (including Trump) that has to go to any kind of elections in US is concerned considering the significance of the Irish vote. That's really why this breaking the international law thing at the moment is just a piece of theatre for English audience. No US Congress (no matter who controls it - Republicans or Democrats) will ever ratify anything that puts a border across Ireland. EU parliament will never ratify anything that puts a border across Ireland.
DeleteI'm just can't wait to see the amount of arse-licking Johnson will have to do if Biden wins in November.
Out of interest, where would Shetland Islands Council get it's 'Section 30' from or is this sort of thing not needed for independence?
ReplyDeleteAlso, can all councils which back Scottish independence vote to become independent states, forming an an embryonic indy Scotland?
Presumably those councils wishing to remain in the EU can become EU/EEA/EFTA dependencies of some form?
DeleteAlso from the 2011 census. Both Orkney and Shetland have the highest incidence of ability to speak Scots at 50%.
ReplyDeleteAnybody trying to split the Northern Isles off to England/UK would get a swift kick up the Up Helly Aa.
They were never apart of England and they dinna want tae be.
Wait. People can actually speak " Scots"? Really?.my father spoke fluent Scotch every night from 9:30 pm on. Sadly, this gift was not functioning in the morning !
DeleteYes, about 60% of the 'native' (born in Scotland) population of the islands speak Scots.
DeleteIt's the primary native language of the locals, with Scottish English in second place.
To be honest, the northern islanders put us mainlanders somewhat to shame in how proud of their Scots culture and language they are.
DeleteI can confirm, that East Fife v Forfar game which Dross was given dispensation to work on was the one which finished East Fife five, Fofar four. All nine goals were from disputed offside decisions not given down Dross's wing.
ReplyDeleteBritnats really are stupid.
ReplyDeleteI'm originally from the shetlands and its definitely a unique place...100% wouldn't want to remain part of the UK but also reticent about Edinburgh a little as well...partly because of its own unique culture which seems different to the western Isles...partly because of the noise history...
ReplyDelete...norse history...
DeleteShetlands...... Really.
DeleteShetland/Orkney are not any more or less unique than other parts of Scotland. They are distinct in their own ways, but so are the Western Isles...Doric NE...Borders... Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee, Aberdeen...all uniquely different in historical culture, dialects, wee quirks etc. I think it would be wrong for any particular regional culture to claim it is somehow 'superior' in its distinctness. I certainly would never claim that for the NE highlands which is where my heart will always be.
DeleteI am a highlander born of West Coasters / Weegies who has lived in the NE highlands, the Northern Isles, East Lothian, Edinburgh and currently the borders.
What unites Scotland's peoples is they all answer predominately 'Scottish' when ask what country they most identify with / what their national identity is, and that is even with Scotland not being an actual independent state. The reason Scotland continues to exist legally and socially after 300 years of union is because its peoples feel it is a country and it's their country. In the end, that is what makes a nation.
Unionists of course like to pick out bits of Scotland and try to tell everyone that they are unique and want to become independent, not out of respect for the people there - quite the opposite - but to try and 'carve up' Scotland out of spite. Their are countless examples of this in the former empire. Divide and conquer.
In the end, all parts of Scotland in theory have the potential right to independence if they satisfied the global community of that right. East Lothian has as much right as Shetland; neither is special / both are equals. If the people of any region became so distinct as to see themselves as a completely different nation, sufficiently so that they could justify that to the international community satisfactorily, then they'd have their case for independence. Brittany would end up Brittany again if that was what people there deep down wanted and kept voting for. But they don't, so it remains part of France.
Personally, I know folk from the northern isles who identify strongly with NI culture but, rightly, find it very racist the way unionists constantly say they are 'not really Scottish / not proper Scots' and even 'not British (more norse)'. It is grossly racist when you think about it; othering people in such a way is very unpleasant, especially when it's for your own political gain.
Yes I agree it’s not very noisy
DeleteYes I agree it’s not very noisy
DeleteYes I agree it’s not very noisy
Deletedon't get me wrong, I'm a strong independence supporter and I'm not saying that its unique, only that its remoteness does tend to lead to a slightly different view with respect how it likes to be ruled...
DeleteI think the oil does influence views a little as they feel they don't get as much support as the western Isles due to the fact they have the oil fund to rely on...
its not to say they don't feel scottish, they certainly do, but the views on independence aren't strong as elsewhere...hopefully that will change
For sure. Each area of Scotland is unique; just equally so.
DeleteAs for indy support...
I live in the borders which, if we are to base things on 2014 results, is at measurably greater risk of 'breaking away from Scotland' than Shetland. Dumfries and Galloway may join it. Hell, even east Renfrewshire is within a whisker of being an enclave of this brave new north britainshire.
At the same time, if Scotland remains in the union, it is at risk of losing Glasgow, Dundee, East Dumbartonshire and lanarkshire! All voted for indy in 2014.
Certainly, if we are looking for areas of Scotland that stand out as distinct in their independence of mind, then it's these three and not the Northern Isles. The latter voted No like everywhere else! Hardly very distinct...
:-)
that is true...maybe being an islander I always assumed some of those other areas you mentioned had similar characteristics to areas that are more yes leaning and so could be persuaded...however I am guilty of the same that others apply to the sheltand in seeing it as the same 🙂
Deletethe borders on the other hand...
I grew up in the Highlands, then moved down to East Lothian. People in both places watch orange marches in Glasgow and think 'What the hell is all that about?'. It's just not part of life in Scotland for most Scots, yet for some Brit Scot areas, it very much is.
DeleteHere in the borders, rugby is very central to the culture. Yet in the highlands, it's not really, with e.g. shinty very popular.
No two areas of Scotland are the same geographically, culturally or linguistically. They all have their unique aspects and identities.
As Adam says elsewhere, unionists have just picked out the distinctions where it suits to try and divide. They simultaneously so the same with sweeping generations that 'we jocks are all the same'.
Remember, Scotland is horrifically divided along sectarian lines right? All of Scotland, Shetland included. It's not just a minority pursuit, very culturally British thing confined to small areas of the western central belt...
I loved my time on Orkney when I was young. It was a magical place.
When even the most rabid of unionists like Lord Keen are quitting, you know we're living in the last days of Rome.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54179745
Lord Keen: Senior law officer quits over Brexit bill row
The UK government's law officer for Scotland, Lord Keen, has resigned amid a legal row over Brexit legislation.
The advocate general said he had "found it increasingly difficult to reconcile" his obligations as a lawyer with provisions in the Internal Market Bill.
Ministers have admitted that their plans could "break international law".
Lord Keen's resignation was initially not accepted by Downing Street, with Prime Minister Boris Johnson saying that conversations were ongoing.
However it was later confirmed that he had left his post.
The government's most senior lawyer - Sir Jonathan Jones, permanent secretary to the government legal department - had already resigned over the bill, which passed its first parliamentary test on Monday.
Lord Keen would have been the one fighting Westminster's case should Bozo have challenged iref2...
It’s beginning to feel though that it doesn’t matter who says what, they will just keep on keeping on. My head is spinning with the wilful chaos of it all. Let’s hope we take advantage of it rather than just gawping from the sidelines.
DeleteReporting Scotland just now. Into story 3 and not a mention of keens resignation.
DeleteStory 4. Sounds like it’s Keens fault for not getting his brain around the weirdness of the bill. And mr Ross just says it will be alright as it can be changed.
DeleteScottish Legal News. These are the people that would be e.g. deciding whether the UK government can legally challenge iref2.
DeleteEditorial: Lord Keen is in an impossible position for a man of integrity
Richard Keen is widely respected in Scotland for possessing one of the sharpest legal minds of his generation. A brilliant career at the bar led to his election as Dean of the Faculty of Advocates and ultimately to his appointment as Advocate General for Scotland in the UK government.
But he now finds himself in a situation that is impossible for any man of integrity and honour. The conspirators who surround the hapless and out-of-his-depth Johnson are now openly attacking, and breaking the rule of law.
I suppose the first thing on this subject is that neither Shetland/Orkney are proposing becoming separate states in the short term. They just want more fiscal and political control. This is nothing unusual, speak to local government officials all over Scotland and the UK and they will want the same. Despite running a large number of services that people rely on (refuse collection, schools, libraries, leisure facilities etc) they have very limited scope on how they raise money and were they can spend it. That's why England introduced elected city mayors - a way of trying to give the myth of more powers at a local level. I say a myth because in reality they again have very little to no control.
ReplyDeleteThe only difference is if the council in Shetland says we want more autonomy it makes headlines (Shetland wants Independence!!) if the council in Glasgow said exactly the same thing it would probably not even get reported in the local press.
Nor is this about feeling less or more Scottish, its just that people in certain parts of a country feel let down. This is not unique to Scotland its just a normal consequence of one size fits all systems. Independence will not change this, in actual fact for a time it might accentuate divisions in the country both at a national and regional level - again this is not unusual, countries having a turbulant start once they become independent is not uncommon as the divisions and divisions become not if a country should be independent or not change to divisions about the path the country should take.
I'm not sure I tptally agree with you, I can't think of any mainland council that has floated the idea of leaving the UK and becoming a crown dependency.
DeleteThere looking at ways of achieving “financial and political self-determination”. That's a pretty woolly and broad statement that could be rectified in numerous ways. Its a long way from signalling that they want to be a crown dependency.
DeleteAs a modest left of centre 'liberal democrat' (hence I would never vote Lib Dem because they are neither), I am supportive of 'more autonomy' for regional/local governance, but on two conditions...
Delete(1) that the population actually wants it, so e.g. should be fully consulted, even through a referendum if needed (for very radical changes), and
(2) That all areas are treated equally with all getting the same autonomy / powers. How they use these differently though is up to them.
Giving special treatment to one area is what creates division. All councils should have the same powers; that is the only fair approach to such things.
One of the problems of e.g. UK devolution is that it's asymmetric. If unionists were clever, they should have given England it's own parliament too, with Westminster becoming a UK one nation one vote senate. But they are fools and instead, when trying to just give a sop to the nats, made the UK nations all different to one another, dividing it, and so pushing it closer to break up long term.
The fact that all the devolved packages were different (the minimum London thought it could locally get away with) just resulted in parliaments chasing more powers so they could 'have what Scotland has' etc, i.e constant conflict and calls for more independence. The same pressure led to EVEL. Foolishly, the UK has seen regional autonomy as a threat to the UK when it could have been used to create the opposite.
But I don't mind of course, as independence is now on its way as a result.
" countries having a turbulent start once they become independent is not uncommon"
DeleteYes, when you lack thing like a parliament, electoral system, established parties, your own independent healthcare systems, police, legal systems and courts etc, starting out as an independent country can be problematic. If the bulk of these are in place, the transition should be fairly trouble free.
Brexit is an example of what you say. The fact the UK isn't a single country is a huge problem for its 'independence' from the EU. It's devolved power structures, including the GFA, were built around EU membership. The need to rapidly agree pan UK trade deals is a nightmare as it needs devolved agreement or for these to be trodden over by English controlled centralisation. This is causing rebellions in the devolved nations and will lead to UK break-up.
It was of course all predicted. The vote for brexit itself would not break the UK, but rather the mother of the constitutional crisis it would create for the fragile, hotchpoch UK constitution.
I don't disagree with you about all areas getting the same powers, but you have to ensure powers that are given benifit all areas. A city council and a rural council are going to have differing priorities - if the only powers you give are only ones that the city councils find a priority then the rural councils are going to feel left out and vica versa.
DeleteI wasn't talking about the transition. I was talking about post independence:
EU or EFTA
Monarchy or Republic
NATO or not
Thats just off the top of my head. All divisive issues that have to be resolved relatively quickly.
Time for Scotland's MP's to disrupt this ongoing bourach.
ReplyDeleteThe Brit establishment are hell-bent on
a hard Brexit coupled with a claw back of devolution powers from the nations to London.
Protesting won't hack it.
We need action not verbal protest.
Salmond and Sillers famously disrupted the UK budget.
Selected walk-outs work guerrilla style. It's the only thing they understand. Sheer numbers mean we'll never outvoted proposals that are aimed at undermining our Scottish Parliament.
But we are most certainly not helpless.
Scots voters are angry and want action.
The more militant the better.
Piss or get off the pot, as the yanks would say.
Doesn't England realise the special relationship is actually with Ireland?
ReplyDeletehttps://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu/biden-warns-uk-on-brexit-no-trade-deal-unless-you-respect-northern-irish-peace-deal-idUKKBN2680R8
Biden warns UK on Brexit: No trade deal unless you respect Northern Irish peace deal
...Biden, who has talked about the importance of his Irish heritage, retweeted a letter from Eliot Engel, chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives, to Johnson calling on the British leader to honour the 1998 Good Friday peace deal.
Engel urged Johnson to “abandon any and all legally questionable and unfair efforts to flout the Northern Ireland protocol of the Withdrawal Agreement.”
He called on Johnson to “ensure that Brexit negotiations do not undermine the decades of progress to bring peace to Northern Ireland and future options for the bilateral relationship between our two countries.”
Engel said Congress would not support a free trade agreement between the United States and the United Kingdom if Britain failed to uphold its commitments with Northern Ireland.
If Biden wins, Johnson will be doing a lot of erse kissing. Even if he doesn't, congress will block any trade deal that doesn't keep N. Ireland all but in the EU.
For lawyers, the law is everything.
ReplyDeleteWe may soon be in the situation that the UK government doesn't have a Scots legal team. It is currently completely at odds with the Scots bar over the illegal English brexit bill.
Interesting ahead of a possible UK government Scots court challenge to iref2.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-54190183
Lord Keen quit as advocate general on Wednesday over new post-Brexit legislation which ministers admit would break international law.
There have been claims that the government may struggle to find anyone willing to replace him.
Is the FM responsible for the actions of her husband who is also Chief Exec of the SNP or is he responsible for her actions or is it both or neither. What a mess.
ReplyDeleteDon't know what the story is.
Deletehttps://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/mp-demands-probe-nicola-sturgeons-22696185
Just like Murrell, I supported the police investigation into Salmond. He was accused of multiple sexual assaults and even attempted rape. Who in their right mind would not support a police investigation?
It's unionists that try to brush such things under the carpet, e.g. the Westminster pedophile scandal.
Good to see Salmond cleared of all charges. If it had not proceeded to trial, I'd be still wondering if there was any truth to the allegations. I honestly didn't know what to believe. Now I do. Crap that he had to suffer this, but the trial was the only way to put it to rest.
I am really uncomfortable right now with those saying attempted rape shouldn't have been investigated, and that Sturgeon/Murrell should have brushed the Salmond accusations under the carpet.
DeleteThis appears to be what WoS is arguing for example.
I support Scottish indy, but I would never support such cover ups.
I have waited all my voting life for Salmond to be accused of sexual misdemeanors, so was not surprised when this happened. It's a classic MI5 approach.
However, I don't know the man and maybe it was true? It smelled bad to me, but I would never have agreed to try and stop it going to court. I needed to know the truth and if Salmond had attempted to rape someone, he needed to suffer the consequences of that.
I would hope Sturgeon would act in the same way. Hell, even if she was 100% sure it was a set-up, it was must that she support a full investigation, including by the police.
The indy movement would be in a really dark place right now if Sturgeon had gone out her way to protect Salmond and stop any investigation into the allegations. Indy movement would be taking bits hits in the polls.
In the end, Salmond has walked free, the unionists are furious, the SNP are heading for another win and Yes is in majority.
Some English bloggers seem unhappy with this outcome.
Skier - are you really that ignorant as to what has been going on. If you are then you have damaged your credibility. If you do know what has been going on and who the alphabet women are then shame on you.
DeleteAs I was not in court, and they remain legally anonymous, I don't know who they accusers were. Nobody but those who attended court should legally know. If I found out, and knew the names to be truthful, I would have discovered this by illegal means. If some random on the internet told me, I have no way of knowing whether they were talking rubbish or not.
DeleteI fail to see how that's shameful. If it's so, then pretty much everyone in Scotland is acting shamefully by sticking to the law. They only know what I know.
What I certainly can't believe is e.g. WoS. That site and it's author lie to me regularly, ergo, I can't trust it. I used to trust it; I was one of the very early readers. But Wings has lied directly to me too many times now. I don't know what his motives are, but I don't trust them, that's for sure.
What I do know is that Alex Salmond is completely innocent; something I hoped was true, but could not be sure of as I don't know the man personally. I also know that he was, it seems, the victim of a conspiracy by a number of people in this regard.
I don't know who these people are, and no internet rumours or lawbreakers will be able to reliably inform me of this.
Siren voices told me Salmond was a sex pest. I ignored these. The same siren voices are now telling me Sturgeon is a unionist who set up Salmond and I should not vote for the SNP, but some new party being promoted from the south of England by someone who loves that country/its people/culture (which is fair enough) and insults Scots (which isn't).
The same voices are telling me to give up on a Section 30 / a referendum that London agrees to respect without even trying. To give up at the very first hurdle. Forgive me, but I am not doing what Johnson is desperate for me to. He really wants Scotland to forget a Section 30 and stop pushing him for one. I refuse to do what he wants.
I don't thing my position is shameful.
My local MSP is Christine Grahame. My local SNP MP candidate / former SNP MP was Calumn Kerr.
DeleteI really like the former and have a very good impression of the latter. Two groups are telling me not to vote for / trust these and the SNP: (1) unionists and (2) Wings.
Am I seriously to believe I should not trust the above candidates with Scotland's future because some bloke who doesn't want to live in Scotland because 'he prefers to live with the brave English rather than the cowardly Scots' tell me to in a siren voice? I'm not a fucking idiot.
Sorry, that was just a general rant, not directed at you IfS; the current chat just promoted it to come out :-)
DeleteSkier - your credibility is rock bottom. Why do you keep raising WOS? You just deflect.
Delete"Nobody but those who attended court should legally know" - what a silly and inaccurate comment.
If you couldn't work out what was going on after the first Salmond judicial review trial then you ain't that smart .
Gradualism = never.
So now you insult most Scots voters the same way Wings does.
DeleteNo, I don't know who the accusers were because they remain legally anonymous. Likewise, I'm not sure exactly sure what was going on with Salmond, but it stinks of MI5. So, I'm in the same position as most Scots. To insult me for this is to insult most Scots, many of whom are reading.
However, I'm not going to try to guess or be 'reliably informed' by randoms on the internet or folk that lie to me (e.g. sadly these days, WoS). And I'm definitely not going to believe stories in unionist rags such as the Telegraph and Record. WoS used to tell me not to trust these on the SNP, but now tells me they are reliable sources for news on the secret workings of the latter. I mean what?
As for my 'credibility'; I don't recall saying I had any. I'm certainly not anyone of importance. And if I do, it's not you that decides on that; individual readers will decide that for themselves.
You don't get to decide my credibility either. Unlike me, you arrogantly think you are important so get to decide this, but you don't.
DeleteEach reader decides individually what/who they think is credible.
Ye have tae feel sorry for Mi5.
ReplyDeleteJust when ye have a scandal all set up to hole the Indy ship below the waterline along comes a pandemic to take it off the front pages.
Then a bloody scottish jury of mainly lassies goes and clears the man.
Back to the drawing board.
Scotland may actually be able to win a game of football against Shetland, although I wouldn't put it past them to fuck it up!
ReplyDeleteScottish numbers: 17 September 2020
ReplyDelete290 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 4.0% of newly tested individuals.
But don't worry coz Skier says it's all under control. WTF
WHO says it's under control if it stays below 5%, not me. If it reaches that level, lockdowns etc are needed.
DeleteIt's you who is arrogantly suggesting you know better than the WHO, armchair expert that you are.
Who says it's under control?
DeleteSkier says it's under control.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53511877
Delete"Positive results under 5% for two weeks can indicate an epidemic is under control, according to WHO"
Current Scottish Figure = 3% over 2 weeks.
You didn't even managed to get that right with your 4% which is daily, even though the data is readily available.
I can't trust your credibility.
Two flaws in your argument "can indicate" not does. No point averaging with prior periods when cases are increasing exponentially. The most recent figure likely to be the most reliable. 4% and rising, and that's when people can't get tested.
DeleteThe trio of trust: Trump, Boris and Skier.
DeleteDon't worry folks, nothing to see here, it'll all be OK.
The armchair expert speaks again. You need to take that up with the WHO.
DeleteUnlike you, I make no claims as to whether the virus is actually under control or not. All I've said is by this standard WHO measure, the virus would be considered 'under control'.
Seems to me governments, Scottish included, think the rising cases - even without rising deaths - is enough to take precautionary action to prevent things getting out of control.
Because said governments, Scottish included, have a track record of taking necessary preventative measures to prevent things getting out of control. Wait, what hmmm.
DeleteContagious disease control is primarily a Westminster reserved matter.
DeleteHence Scotland can't e.g. license a vaccine, close borders or introduce / extend furlough schemes. Likewise can't e.g. put brexit on hold to make things easier on the economy. That or change taxes such as corporation, vat... borrow money to fund recovery, new preventative measures etc.
Everyone's aware of this and e.g. currently waiting to see whether the UK will extend furlough or put millions on the dole just as a second wave starts.
The fact that you don't seem to understand this makes it hard for me personally to find you credible.
DeleteThe World Health Organization has warned of “alarming” transmission rates of Covid-19 in Europe, saying weekly reported cases were now higher than during the pandemic’s peak and “a very serious situation” was unfolding across the continent.
ReplyDeleteReinforcing the WHO’s concerns, the European Centre for Disease Control (ECDC) said the 14-day case notification rate for the region had risen for more than 50 days and its projections showed “potential for a larger upsurge of cases” later in the year.
But don't listen to them, listen to Skier, who says it's all OK coz we're under 5% positive.
I've never asked people to listen to me; they should listen to WHO etc.
DeleteIt's you that's arrogantly suggestion folk listen to you rather than the WHO as you are an armchair expert.
It's you that is trying to manipulate and distort WHO guidance to provide a false and misleading appraisal of the current position. Every press release from the WHO itself suggests they are extremely concerned about the unfolding situation, particularly in Europe. Scotland is following a very similar trend to the rest of Europe and you're using Matt Hancock type spin to downplay it.
DeleteReally? Maybe you can provide some links to where the WHO or similar say the situation in Scotland is now 'out of control'.
DeleteSorry, but you may think yourself an armchair expert in infectious diseases, mathematics / statistics and the universal decider of who is credible or not on the internet, but I will wait for this to be officially announced by those experts tasked with deciding on the matter.
It's you that's inferring the situation is 'under control', I've made no contrary statement, just questioned your analysis. Can you provide links to where the WHO has stated that the situation is under control in Scotland.
DeleteMaybe you can provide evidence as to where I've said things are under control.
DeleteI quote myself, where I used standard English:
https://www.blogger.com/profile/10584099659760612109
"Unlike you, I make no claims as to whether the virus is actually under control or not. All I've said is by this standard WHO measure, the virus would be considered 'under control'."
Which bit of this are you struggling with? I thought it was quite clear? Is English not your first language?
Anyway, if you think I'm wrong and the data are not consistent with this, and or the WHO have stated that the situation in Scotland is 'out of control' (is that what you are saying?), I think this matter is closed.
You need to look up the meaning of inferring, but we've both had enough of this so I bid you good day.
Delete"Unlike you, I make no claims as to whether the virus is actually under control or not. All I've said is by this standard WHO measure, the virus would be considered 'under control'."
DeleteThere is no inference here, only two clearly stated facts.
Covid 19 will always be out of control in Scotland because we cant stop selfish Tory Plague carriers at the border. We don't have the legal power to stop those disease spreading Yoons coming here.
ReplyDeleteI think this is to become a common meme, that the English are plague carriers. Something you couldn't have envisaged a year or two ago.
DeleteScottish numbers: 18 September 2020
ReplyDelete203 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 4.4% of newly tested individuals.
We're up to 4.4% Skier.
Yes Poppy, it's very concerning. I do hope you were not relishing that it went up so you get one over on some random on the internet. This is people's lives we are talking about.
DeleteHowever, your 4.4% number is for a single day. As noted, the WHO 5% is for a 2 week average. If we hit 5% or greater for 2 weeks then we are absolutely in the shit by that measure.
As things stand, we are opening up the fly zipper and turning to face the wind. It's good to see that's recognised by the UK government and Scottish devolved administration.
I assume you are with me on hoping that number falls, and quickly?
Also that the UK government announces plans to extend full furlough for all? This is what every Scot/Brit is asking.
4,322 new cases in England, which is 1.7 times that of Scotland per capita today.
DeleteYou are right. Things not looking good for the UK right now.
The leak of the complainers personal complaints details about Salmond to the Daily Redcoat was not investigated by the Scotgov because a criminal trial was in the pipeline. A valid reason - perhaps - but that was the excuse punted. Well the criminal trial finished in March this year - how is the investigation going? Has it started? Will it ever start or finish? What is the current excuse?
ReplyDeleteAnother 6 years have gone by of Westminster robbing Scotland blind and serving up a diet of subservience, subjugation and humiliation. The INFAMOUS vow is now the rollback of devolution via the internal market bill. So much for gradualism. The only question that remains is which people in the SNP are Britnats?
ReplyDeleteWill there never be a political party in Scotland that will let us vote for independence in an election. What a crock of shit is this gold standard sect 30 referendum nonsense. It is a Britnat standard full of deceit, cheating and lying.
Peter Murrell is 55 - does early retirement beckon?
ReplyDeleteAlex Salmond was of course the most famous SNP gradualist.
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Salmond
Salmond's first spell as leader was characterised by a moderation of his earlier left-wing views and by his firmly placing the SNP into a gradualist, but still pro-independence, strategy...
... Although still committed to a fully independent Scotland, Salmond signed the SNP up to supporting the campaign for devolution, and, along with Scottish Labour leader Donald Dewar and Scottish Liberal Democrat leader Jim Wallace, played an active part in securing the victory for devolution in the Scotland referendum of 1997. Many hardline fundamentalists in the SNP objected to committing the party to devolution, as it was short of full political Scottish independence.
If he suggests I not to vote SNP, I will listen to what he has to say. I notice he isn't doing this, nor is he telling folks to listen to Wings and vote for another indy party on the list. Kinda odd that huh - I mean if the SNP were out to get him?
SNP let me vote for indy. There was an iref as recently as 2014.
Unfortunately, Scots voted No, and have only recently been persuaded to vote Yes.
If people say 'but a campaign would have changed their minds!' they either are completely oblivious to the fact that the indy campaign has never stopped since 2014, or are lying.
I don't want to lose again. 2014 was too soon and I was sure we'd lose; I only had the faintest glimmer of hope I might be wrong.
I want Scots to want the iref and to want to vote Yes. It looks like we are getting to that point.
Saint Skier - I never said Salmond wasn't a gradualist. Unlike you I can see the facts and not see the facts through the prism of personalities. He may be a gradualist now or perhaps not but at least I can see how he has been persecuted. If it was a Britnat being persecuted in the same way I would recognise how disgusting it was.
DeleteYou are a great one for deflecting and misrepresenting. I said vote for independence in an ELECTION not a Britnat controlled referendum. Who is saying the SNP are out to get Salmond? It is only SOME in the SNP and if you really don't know who it is by now then :
You head is in the sand Skier.
I honestly can't see why we should fold and accept 'no S30' from the pathetic wee man that bozo is.
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhPkHP8eCRo
I will be voting for a party that will keep him squirming in the same way on this issue as Scotland moves to indy.
I certainly will not vote for a party organsied and promoted from the comfort of bear-free Bath, England.
Saint Skier - your head is in the sand. So are the police investigating the leak of imaginary messages from Murrel persecuting Salmond - are they?
DeleteDid you go on a strop for years when you found out Santa Claus was not real.
Out of interest what do you think happens if the claims I keep hearing about turn out to be true. If it turns out that senior members of the SNP/Scot Gov conspired to pervert the course of justice and or leaked information that had been sealed by the courts? if true the SNP is finished. It would become toxic overnight. Murrel would go and Sturgeon , even if she survived, would be so hobbled by the association to him would become a lame duck. There would be zero chance of a indyref happening in the near future.
DeleteI'm no way suggesting there should be a coverup. If there has been wrongdoing then the culprits need to be discovered; I'm just suppressed that so many people who clearly want independence seem to be so vigorously wanting the thing that will derail it happening just because they don't like certain people at the top of the SNP/Scot Gov.
If that’s directed at me…
DeleteI think the concept that the SNP both control the North British civil service (e.g. along with the entire Holyrood civil service, Leslie Evan's wage is directly paid by London on a monthly basis, who also selected her for the job) in Scotland and the Scottish judiciary (think Lord Keen and the likes) is into the realms of magic roundabout land. It's fantasist conspiracy theory stuff. It would be great if the Scots courts were all pro-SNP; we'd have nae bother with our S30.
However, I'm not in the least surprised that there's apparently been an attempt to set up Salmond, with this coming about now the union is under greater threat than in 2014. I'd be very surprised if this was not orchestrated from London with the backing of MI5, including operatives within the SNP. The boss of MI5 should be fired by Boris if they have not successfully infiltrated the greatest threat to the UK state going.
Nope, it's no surprise that Salmond became an apparent sex pest the moment he became FM. Kiss and tell etc. My guess is that they were ready to use it in 2014 if needed, but figured it wasn't required. Now that Yes is on the march again, they've tried to find a way to bring it to light.
Sturgeon's safe from this bog standard state-backed character assassination approach because she's a married woman, so it's got very little chance of success. Late middle aged overweight salmond and a young aide in the minds of the electorate is perfect though.
Of course I don't know the Salmond, so couldn't be sure. I had to accept that maybe he was a sex pest. So I let the court judge. However, when Moira kept turning up every day with him, I felt the chances were he was innocent. I was pleased to be right, and the courts decision confirmed that they were not 'in on it'; just doing their duty. If the judiciary were under the SNP's thumb, something would have stuck.
As for Sturgeon; what would she be supposed to do if Salmond was accused of attempted rape? Should she have tried to protect him and cover up the charges? I'm sure the British state would have loved that; it's exactly the plan I would have had if I was MI5. Sturgeon was Salmond's padawan, and is hugely popular with the electorate. A bigger threat than salmond to the UK, certainly now. Even a single email suggesting she had tried to stop sex claims being investigated would have be enough to bring her and the SNP down. MI5 must be kicking themselves that she distanced herself and supported an investigation from the start...
I will not trust anyone that suggests the accusations against Salmond should not have been investigated by the SNP. Only MI5 would have desired that.
DeleteFor me, if Alex Salmond starts saying that Sturgeon / the SNP have gone unionist and indy voters should go elsewhere, I will listen to what he has to say. But he isn't saying that at all. Wings etc seem to claim he's their best mate and right behind a new party, yet can't produce Salmond to back up these claims. Instead, I'm told to now trust the Daily Record on the matter. It's comical.
I'm sure the truth will come out at some point, but it's fantasist to suggest e.g. John Swinny is a unionist out to get Salmond along with my local MSP Christine Grahame. Which is what I'm effectively being told to believe.
I don't know who the accusers in the case were, but from following it, it appears that there are only a few that were leading it, with the rest convinced that maybe he had been up to no good after hearing the manufactured stories of others. Some of the accusations were a joke; but if you think Salmond tried to rape someone else, then that overly friendly behaviour he had one night is looked at differently.
Anyway, I be voting for Grahame again next May if she's standing. I certainly won't be voting for some new list party organised from the south of England by someone who openly states they 'prefer living among the brave English over the cowardly scots'. Someone who points the finger at the SNP accounts but doesn't publish their own income sources. Might as well be Michael Gove setting it up.
Again, if I were MI5, I'd be setting up a 'pro-indy' list party ahead of next May. That isn't conspiracy theory stuff; just regular British statecraft.
"So are the police investigating the leak of imaginary messages from Murrel persecuting Salmond - are they?"
DeleteI'm not aware of any police investigation to that effect. Only a Holyrood enquiry which has been apparently supplied with some messages from Murrell. Which is odd because I thought the SNP government were unionists, yet are standing up for Salmond by holding an enquiry into what happened?
Yes, the messages are imaginary for now as nobody seems able to produce the originals. It's all 'anonymous sources' and 'apparently said'.
I certainly won't pass judgement without seeing verified original messages complete within their context.
For example, I selectively quote myself:
Late middle aged overweight salmond and a young aide...
Nope, it's no surprise that Salmond became an apparent sex pest the moment he became FM.
And I now it looks like I believe Salmond was a sex pest according to the Daily Record, even though I actually believe the contrary.
Skier - " when Moira kept turning up every day" - wrong again - you cannot even get the simple basics correct. It just highlights how little you know.
DeleteSkier - " I am not aware of any police investigation to that effect." Well that is because your head is buried in the sand. Your credibility is plummeting with each ridiculous post.
DeleteSkier- "nobody seems able to produce the originals." They are Whatsapp messages not hard copy letters. Another stupid comment that just makes you sound silly. You clearly do not want to find out the facts and truth - head in the sand stuff right enough.
DeleteSkier - " I will not trust anyone that suggests the accusations against Salmond should not have been investigated by the SNP."
DeleteYet another inaccurate statement. The Scottish Government investigated the accusations then the police investigated them.
Maybe you can share these whatsapp messages?
DeleteI trust you have read them, and in the context they were written? I hope you are not passing judgement based on something you have never actually seen?
For me, that's what's needed for them to credibility; to see them for real and in context.
As for my own credibility; I'm sorry, it's not you that decides this. You are not the arbiter of online credibility. People individually decide this for themselves. I don't mind what you think of my opinions; I'm just saying what I think.
I trust you supported both the Scottish government and police investigations into the accusations against Salmond? I certainly did once I heard what he was accused of. I was very worried about it and prepared to accept maybe they were true. I strongly advocated they be investigated, and by the police. To no do so would have damaged him and the SNP.
I am very glad Salmond was found completely innocent.
Ok, maybe she didn't turn up every day, but the fact Moira salmond stood by her husband through it all suggested to me that she believed him innocent, and if so, that suggested he quite probably was.
DeleteI thought my point was clear.
It wasn't directed at you Skier. It was a general point. If the claims that I read/hear are found to be true then the fallout out will be catastrophic. My worry is that many seem to think (if true) all that will happen is that is the Sturgeon will go but there will be no other negative effects. I can't see how they can think this would happen.
DeleteIf Alex Salmond comes out and says Sturgeon it's all Sturgeon's doing and shows me the evidence, I definitely listen.
DeleteLikewise if he said don't vote SNP as they are not really pushing for indy anymore, I'd listen.
Neither is occurring.
Instead, I'm being told to believe English bloggers who insult Scots and convict people based on evidence I'm not allowed to see that the Daily Record claims to have a hold of.
As for indy, I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference. The SNP and indy are not the same thing. I mean the Irish had a full scale actual guns and bombs civil war over differences in the pro-indy movement, but that didn't have the electorate swinging back behind the union.
The UK is on it's last legs for many reasons and the SNP are a product of that, not the driving force. As Scots have become less British and increasingly pro-indy, so indy parties have grown to fill demand, greens included. Same for devolution; it's not something Labour persuaded the Scots they wanted; it's something the Scots asked for and if parties didn't offer it, voters would go elsewhere.
If they SNP are going luke warm on indy, they will most likely split and the solid pro-indy wing will take most of the voters.
the papers love a good infighting scandal, but in reality voters couldn't give a shit as longs as a party is broadly delivering what they want it to.
Even if Sturgeon was the mastermind behind this and it all gets out, Scotland will still march on towards indy. What's happening is too long in the making and far bigger than any individual Politian. I find it amusing some unionists think such things an 'destroy the indy cause'; it shows how little they understand Scotland / the world around them.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteEven if Sturgeon was the mastermind behind this and it all gets out, Scotland will still march on towards indy.
DeleteEventually yes, but could stop it happening in the short term. I certainly would not vote for a party whose leadership tried to pervert the course of justice. So even though the SNP would undoubtedly end up the largest party a pro indy majority would most likely not happen. So indy would not happen for at least five years.
Skier - the only thing I am passing judgement on is you and your error strewn posts along with your head in the sand attitude and all your straw men and deflection.
DeleteWho is saying not to vote for the SNP or Christine Grahame - not me - you raise these straw men up high from where? Another straw man punted by yourself - that no one should say that Sturgeon should have tried to stop the persecution/prosecution of Salmond. Again who said this - not me - just more crap from you.
Sorry IoS, you've lost me a bit. My posts are not specifically directed at you, but just giving my viewpoint in general, about a topic you have mentioned.
DeleteI am glad you support me and others backing the SNP in 2021.
My local list MSP is Joan McAlpine incidentally.
DeleteShe is of course well known as a feminist who has taken flack for speaking about about self-id and the risk poor legislation here could have on women's rights. I agree with many of her points.
However, from his favourite south of England beer garden, a blogger claims to be on the side of Joan MacAlpine, yet says I shouldn't vote for her, but instead give my vote to some mysterious party that's being promoted from England.
Understandably, this has me questioning motives.
Out of interest what is the party being promoted from the south of England? I know Wings it very pro the idea of a new list only Indy party but must admit after a quick browse through his site cant find him promoting a specific party mysterious or otherwise?
DeleteThat's what I mean about mysterious. The message from one of previously most popular indy websites and those selectively allowed to post on it:
Delete"Don't vote SNP! Vote something other than SNP! Vote for an imaginary party that can deliver a whopping indy majority! the party of your dreams with its blank sheet policy manifesto that can be whatever you want. Just not SNP, I meant at least on the most important PR list vote.
Alex Salmond backs this, even though he's not saying so, he does, trust me, he too loves living in England and 'prefers the company of brave English people to cowardly scots'. He was set up by Sturgeon who is best mates with Boris and controls the Scottish police + courts. Voting for the people's front won't split the vote; I was talking rubbish in my excellent, accurate previous articles where I said tactically voting under AMS was a mugs game!
Save women's toilets from evil trans people! Joan MacAlpine is right; a lone voice of reason. Just don't vote for her!
And most importantly, give up on an S30 because you are never getting one. Just give up. Give up. You won't get one. Boris will always say no. Give up on the internationally recognized approach. Give up without even trying....give up.....not SNP....no S30...sturgeons trans army will rape your daughter... and no you can't see my accounts/where my funding comes from - go look at the SNP instead"
I honestly don't know what the motives are, but after watching this develop over the past year or so, I've concluded it's either malicious or just random demented bullshit.
I say this as one of earliest posters on wings before it became famous/infamous.
Skier - " I say this as one of the earliest posters on Wings........"
DeleteI think you should be saying that you say that as someone with a personal grudge and an obsession with Wings. Did Wings try to put you in prison- I doubt it but you are more concerned about this than a disgraceful attempt to put an innocent man behind bars for the rest of his life by members of the Scotgov and SNP. Who in no way can be seen as supporters of independence.
What did Wings do to you - swear at you and ban you. Pathetic - get over it.
"Give up on the internationally recognised approach" - more misleading stuff from Skier.
" previously most popular Indy websites" - more misleading stuff from Skier. You cannot retain any objectivity Skier can you. Just what site is most popular than Wings. Just because it is no longer popular with you does that mean you should post falsehoods.
PS Joan MacAlpine - is not my consituency MSP therefore I can't vote for her and it is unlikely anyone can as she was not standing in a constituency in 2016. If she remains on the list then it is the party who picks her.
I don't think he has any motives, certainly can't see any form of malice. He's simply stating his views on his personal blog as he has always done, they may of changed over the years but they are still his views. That's the point of a blog its a medium for putting your views into the world, people then can decide themselves if they agree with them or think that he is writing demented bullshit.
DeleteCould you maybe list who of the following people were in on this plot and no longer want indy?
Deletehttps://www.gov.scot/about/who-runs-government/cabinet-and-ministers/
John Swinney? Roseanna Cunningham? Fergus Ewing (son of Winnie) Michael Russell? Fiona Hyslop? Paul Wheelhouse...?
Just randomly picking out names.
Thanks.
Have you ever though of setting up your own blog skier? You would then be able to put put your thoughts and opinions into the public domain in a more structured form than a comments section.
DeleteSkier - " just randomly picking out names." Yes that is the point about your posts random nonsense. Try harder with your list.
DeleteThere is a link to the entire current Scottish cabinet. Surely if there is a big conspiracy you can identify who is involved and who is not? This is the team people will be voting for next May.
Delete@Adam...
DeleteIs that a polite way to say 'maybe you should take your ramblings somewhere else' :-)
I already spend too much time thinking out loud on politics for my own good! And that's all I'm doing. I'm not really trying to persuade people of anything, just airing my own questions about things that don't add up.
For the moment, I see no reason not to vote for Christine Grahame, Joan McAlpine, Paul Wheelhouse etc next May. The only people telling me not to (or to not vote for the greens) are unionists and websites run from England.
No it was just a general observation. If seen you posting around the place since 2012/2013 (stating on NetWeather) and remember you commenting a few times about starting your own blog.
DeleteOn a more general point Peter Bell, Barrhead Boy, Arc of Prosperity, Grouse Beater & Craig Murray have a blogged recently questioning the SNP's perceived strategy regarding independence so in that respect Wings is far from unique.
On a final point here is a blogger actively promoting a 'new' pro indy list party and suggesting voting 'SNP1,ISP2' as a way of maximising the number of Pro Independence MSP's in the same way Wings does.
https://www.barrheadboy.com/snp-isp-me/
I'm pretty sure he's not a unionist nor his site run from England:)
Wings is unique in being run from the south of England by someone who freely chooses to live there because he prefers it to Scotland. He is also an expert on the AMS system, which many are not.
Deletehttps://wingsoverscotland.com/ams-for-lazy-people/
These figures are all illustrations, not predictions. We have no way of knowing how many votes each party will get next May – eight months is a long time in politics – and no way of knowing how many constituency seats those votes will translate into.
But what we’ve learned is that even an unimaginably huge tactical list vote will likely at best produce a net gain of a couple of seats for Yes/left parties, and at worst could cost the SNP some seats and perhaps even their majority.
(AMS, we must remember, was also specifically designed to make winning majorities very difficult, and the Nats currently technically don’t have one at all, holding 64 seats out of 128. On our illustrative calculations here they lose six list seats in just three regions, and we can’t be sure how many constituencies they might win to compensate and regain a majority. The most they can gain is 20, as they already have 53 of 73.)
It’s not this site’s business to tell anyone how to vote. What these numbers strongly suggest, though, is that tactical voting – of any sort and for anyone’s benefit – in an AMS election is a mug’s game. You should vote for the party or parties that you most want to see form the government, rather than trying to second-guess the system. Because if you try, chances are it’ll make a chump out of you.
Best description of AMS for dummies that I've ever come across.
As I've said before, if you want some new ISP in government, then use your most important PR list for vote them, and hope they get >5% regionally. If you want the SNP back at the helm, vote SNP.
Like Wings says, it's a mugs game trying to cheat AMS.
I take your point about the cheating AMS and agree that its not a good idea.
DeleteThe fact that he lives in England is immaterial. He has lived there ever since he started Wings. As you say you have been a long time follower of his (I remember on Netweather you forum signature linked to his site or twitter feed). Were he lived clearly did not bother you then so am quite surprised you make such a big deal of it now.
Of course pro independence bloggers not living in Scotland is not unique to Wings the writer of Arc of Prosperity lives in Denmark, Grouse Beater has also lived abroad.
Skier - encouraging someone to break the law - what a naughty boy you are. Saint Skier - no more. I am not daft enough to list the names of people who have a legal anonymity. But Murrell, McCann, and Ruddick are on the Whatsapps.
DeleteI see Adam quite rightly pointed out that other bloggers are reporting similarly to Wings but you with your obsession about Wings just can't stop referring to him. So Skier just what did Wings do to you to hate him so much. Surely it must have been something terrible to carry that around with you.
I also see you are banging on again but how you should just put your brain in to neutral and vote SNP 1 and 2. In your latest post you are punting people to follow a Wings recommendation on the Holyrood voting system. You really are one mixed up person.
Adam - you cannot cheat in the Holyrood election - you just vote. You vote applying some thought and knowledge or you just do what Skier and James Kelly tell you to do because you are too lazy to analyse your own regional situation.
Random Public Journal is another - lives in Ireland - but Skier and so many others keep all their vitriol and obsession about Wings only. I guess It's not actually the points Campbell makes but the knack he has for personally upsetting people. He says he doesn't suffer fools easily.
DeleteThere will be room for everyone in an independent Scotland - yes even Campbell Skier and Britnats.
"The fact that he lives in England is immaterial."
DeleteNo, it is relevant. This is called 'outside interference in the process of self determination' and is normally considered anti-democratic.
He freely choses to live in England. There are a lot of folk originally from Scotland who live in England not through free choice, but because they have to for work. I was almost one of these upon graduation.
If these people want to write a blog about how they'd like to see Scotland governed, there's nothing wrong with that. Not if they would be in Scotland at the drop of a hat if they could. That would have been me if I'd taken that job in Leicester in 2000. I'd have been constantly looking for jobs in Scotland so I could return home.
I originally understood Stuart Campbell to be one of those Scots from his writings. And anyway; he wasn't actually seeking out people in Scotland and telling them how to vote. He was just writing a blog. I had to seek out his blog and his tweets. He didn't pop up on the Scottish forum on netweather to give his tuppenceworth; I, a Scot, was sending people his way.
However, in recent years, it became clear to me from pressing the guy that he actually loves living in England. He loves its people, its culture, its cities, its beer gardens, its countryside, its political 'bravery'. He is absolutely freely choosing to live there because he prefers it to Scotland. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.
But if you press him, he can't bring himself to just say that. I guess because it might hurt business. Instead, he blames Scots for him being in England, saying he lives there because they 'are cowards that he can't stand'. And he says that knowing that people in Scotland who actually identify as Scots voted in majority Yes in 2014. It was Brits and English identifying residents that didn't; which is quite understandable. So he knows he's just being a wanker.
Even then, well he's free to write a blog, but he's not different to Michael Gove, no matter what he says he supports. But don't expect me to send folk to it any more, especially when it starts lying to the electorate about what he knows to be true.
Of course, if I am to complain about Micheal Gove popping up to Scotland to tell us to what do even though he doesn't live here, so I should do the same for Stuart Campbell. Which you've probably seen me do when he's posted on this Scottish blog.
I hope that makes sense.
Contrary to what IoS says, I am fair in this matter. If you freely choose not to live in Scotland and have no desire to return as soon as possible, then let alone those who do to choose it's future.
And don't openly lie. It's not personal, but I don't take kindly to those doing it and will happily say so.
Skier - that rant makes it clear it is personal.
DeleteSkier - even if someone is jailed over the Salmond conspiracy you and James Kelly will still be trying to look the other way. Why? - because of your egos ( you cannot accept being wrong) and personal hatred of Campbell.
DeleteGlasgow Herald doing an on-line yes/no for indy closes 20 sept.
ReplyDeleteSorry not able to paste link but i am sure easy to access
In light of recent developments... I assume it is ok for countries which have signed trade deals with the UK to break these within months? Everyone is fine with that right?
ReplyDeletehttps://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54210658
Brexit: Amal Clooney quits government envoy role over law break plan
"It has become untenable for me, as Special Envoy, to urge other states to respect and enforce international obligations while the UK declares that it does not intend to do so itself."
BOB MACK - sorry but you are wrong James Kelly is allowing a discussion re Salmond persecution and Murrellls alleged role in it. See above.
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile Sir Keir Starmer assures Leonard English money will be pumped into Scotland to thwart an SNP win next May.
ReplyDeleteIf Russian money is unwelcome in influencing UK or US politics the same applies to English cash undermining Scotland's elections.
Don't expect the electoral commission to get involved.
They did bugger all in 2014 when the VOW broke electoral purdah.
The Scottish Govt. should report this and refuse to accept our elections being gamed in this way.
'Subsidy junkies living off the backs of the English'
DeleteScottish numbers: 19 September 2020
ReplyDelete350 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 5.3% of newly tested individuals.
We're over 5% Skier. Do you now accept that things are spiraling out of control. I take no pleasure in this and yes I am very concerned. It's about time the Scottish government took some appropriate action.
DeleteThat's just for today I understand. The WHO 5% indicator is over that for 2 weeks.
DeleteI said yesterday things were concerning.
Yes, the UK government needs to reintroduce full furlough so the Scottish government can lock down if needed. Without full furlough, lockdown is impossible.
DeleteLooks like the FM is about to act.
ReplyDeleteCan't wait for Johnson to get off his fat arse and be the leader he claims to be.
Does nobody in London see Johnson isn't up to the job.
Nicola has the backing of Scotland as shown by the BBC U turn over the daily Covid briefings. People power.
Meanwhile Alister Jack, the Tories man in Scotland wants us all to fall in line with England/UK health minister Matt Hancock.
What does Jack actually Do?
The man is talking himself out of a job.
Aye, Sturgeon is ready to act and hopefully she's right that London may agree to extend furlough.
DeleteIf they don't, covid will spiral out of control along with unemployment. UK businesses being forced to shut due to covid without offering furlough payments would be the UK government directly making people unemployed. The Scots electorate would never forgive them.
Well ramstam. THAT is what that man actually does. Parrots WM Govt Ministers and denigrates Scotland at every opportunity. THAT is what a Secretary For Scotland's job is. We are probably supposed to be impressed and grateful. And you probably ask because you cannot feel the glow he gives off.
DeleteNope, I'm not feeling the glow.
DeleteBut I can smell the reek of London Knows Best.
Its a phenonema experienced by all colonies leading up to liberation and democracy.
Oh aye, and well done Barbados.
Former government adviser Prof Neil Ferguson said new measures were needed "sooner rather than later".
ReplyDeleteThe scientist, whose advice was crucial to the decision to go into lockdown in March, said: "If we leave it another two to four weeks, we will be back at [infection] levels we were seeing more like mid-March.
"That's clearly going to cause deaths because people will be hospitalised," he told the BBC.
Furlough ends 31st October it's now 19th September, Scotgov needs to act now. The initial failure to act and wait for Westminster was incompetence of the highest order, but a second subsequent failure would be so negligent it would be downright criminal.
Full furlough has already ended (it's being tapered off with employers required to pay an increasing proportion), so a national lockdown isn't possible without mass unemployment.
DeleteThe UK government has already begun making Scots redundant by withdrawing furlough, and unless the former confirms full 80% furlough will be extended for another year or so as per European countries (France, Germany...), lockdown just isn't possible with mass unemployment.
Lets hope the UK government step up to the plate and protect Scots lives and jobs. After all, UK contagious disease control / vaccines, border controls, welfare, unemployment and the economy are all reserved matters.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54057511
Extend furlough scheme 'or risk second wave of job cuts'
The UK risks a second wave of job cuts and a slower economic recovery if it does not extend its furlough scheme, leading business groups have warned.
Manufacturing body Make UK said the job retention scheme should last beyond October for hard-hit sectors that are already slashing posts.
The CBI meanwhile said a replacement was needed to avoid a "cliff edge".
Extending full furlough to at least end 2021 would show Scots the benefit of the union. Otherwise, they will look to other indy EU countries with their own furlough schemes and see that as the better option.
Over 5% again Skier
ReplyDeleteScottish numbers: 20 September 2020
245 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 5.4% of newly tested individuals
Scotgov must act
Any news on the UK government extending furlough? The future of the union hinges on this.
DeleteYes the Scotgov is going to act and because the infection prevelance is much lower than in England we will recover quicker and in a more sustainable way. Of one of the many commendable things the Scotgov has done in dealing with this pandemic is that they have been honest with the public unlike the UK Gov.
ReplyDeleteI can also inform you that there were no recorded deaths of covid 19 in Scotland in the last 24hrs but England had 15.The percentage of people in England who have tested positive has to be higher and any figure given for this is treated with extreme caution due to caoticand imploding testing system down south. The incompetence of the UK gov and the direction they are taking us is making more and more people here in Scotland wanting to become Independent
Yes, new cases are about 20% lower in Scotland per capita.
DeleteIf Sturgeon et al are genuinely seeking independence, then now is the time to act and demonstrate their autonomous resolve with every power at their disposal. Show the Westminster government that Scotland will not accept the death of its citizens, and demand a further furlough extension or more funding to compensate.
ReplyDeleteJumping into Boris's bloodbath of bullshit, bravado and bollocks, because we had no option is simply not acceptable.
The FM is far to smart to fall into that trap. She has Westminster and Scottish unionists(i suspect that is where you are aligned) shitting bricks. She is always one step ahead and they just do not know what to do.
DeleteYou seem a bit behind the times.
Deletehttps://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-makes-fresh-plea-22693517
Nicola Sturgeon makes fresh plea for furlough scheme extension to save 60,000 jobs in Scotland
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-says-removal-furlough-22557479
Nicola Sturgeon says removal of furlough scheme is 'significant concern' as unemployment in Scotland could rocket
https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/politics/scottish-politics/1584367/reason-for-optimism-in-call-to-extend-uk-furlough-scheme-and-save-61000-scottish-jobs/
Reason for optimism’ in call to extend UK furlough scheme and save 61,000 Scottish jobs
If London doesn't respond, voters will respond at the ballot box.
After all, extending furlough schemes for another year or more is what independent countries across Europe are doing.
Bank regulation is of course a Westminster reserved matter.
ReplyDeleteIf this was managed in the interests of the country rather than Tories, there'd be more taxes for the furlough scheme.
#HSBC
There are many reasons why Scotland has never had a democracy. Here is one example:
ReplyDeleteScotland voted twice to remain in the EU in 2014 and 2016 but was removed from the EU in 2020.
Scottish numbers: 21 September 2020
ReplyDelete255 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 6.3% of newly tested individuals.
We're now at 6.3% Skier and rising. Scottish government has a whole plethora of powers available to it in order to curb the spread of the virus. It must act, can't simply blame Westminster for furlough when things go wrong and take credit when things go well.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI see the BBC have decided to politicise what should be a Public Health Broadcast about the coronavirus by tagging on to the Daily Briefing a political discussion for "balance". This balance happens after they cut off the Daily Briefing after The BBC " Journalist" has asked their question. Today we got D.ROSS saying nothing but the two governments should work together - must have been tired running the line at the weekend. What next daft Willie Rennie. It was called Bargain Hunt Dementia Special by the BBC - pretty apt.
ReplyDeleteMy advice watch BBC Scotland channel - you can see the whole Briefing if you want without any DRoss.
On Scotland Tonight John MacKay says there is no difference between the performance of Nicola Sturgeon and Boris Johnson. Not a surprise that the Britnat STV would say that lie. What was a surprise was Shona Craven cravenly agreeing with him. With friends like this journalist from the National who needs enemies. Just another sell out like Captain Haggerty.
ReplyDeleteSkier - Joan McAlpine is standing in a constituency so that removes your gripe about not voting for her on the list.
ReplyDeleteHave you read the Whatsapp message yet or are you still looking the other way? Is there some sort of competition going on as to who will be the last to accept the disgusting actions undertaken by high heid yins in the SNP/ Scotgov.
It is clear that WGD has decided just to ignore all the nasty goings on in the SNP/Scotgov re the persecution of Alex Salmond. That is his right - it is his site after all. However, all the regular BTL commentators on WGD who pick up on everything going on in Scottish politics - and I mean everything - also choose to ignore the Murrell Whatsapp messages and the hateful conspiracy against Salmond. They really are in a cult. Skier would fit in well there.
ReplyDeleteScottish numbers: 22 September 2020
ReplyDelete383 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 7.6% of newly tested individuals.
Up to 7.6% now Skier, Scotgov has lost all control over the virus.
You are such a joke and making a fool of yourself.
DeleteScotland recorded 1 death from covid today whereas England recorded 28.You never mention the percentage rate for England .I wonder why that is.
We are in a much better position than England thanks to the approach of our FM
Ally
Creek - you are up shit creek with all the crap you post. I know what you have lost all control of and it stinks of Britnat shit.
DeleteFact, Scotland has 2,500 Covid deaths.
ReplyDeleteIf England had dealt as well as Scotland their Covid deaths would be 25,000.
The official England figure is 44,000.
Facts are chiels that winna ding.
John Mackay should have known that.
I think he knew. How could he not.
MacKay is a Britnat paid to spout propaganda. What is Shona Cravens excuse?
DeleteGetting well pissed off with far to many of the National newspaper columnists - do they forget they are not writing for the Herald.
Johnson's butchers apron was bigger than the saltire in the broadcasts tonight. This is the only thing Johnson has bettered Sturgeon on.
ReplyDeleteWe will fight the virus on the beaches . We will fight the virus in the countryside. We will never surrender. We will fight the virus in the pubs. We will never surrender.
4,236 deaths have been registered in Scotland where COVID-19 was mentioned on the death certificate.
ReplyDeleteFigure for UK is 56,956
Population of Scotland 5.454 million of UK 66.65 million
4256 * 66.65/5.454 = 51,924
Hardly any better, and England one of the worst performing countries in the world. Nothing to write home about.
Like most Unionists you've confused the English and UK figures.
ReplyDeleteScotland 5.4 million. England 55 million.
Scotland doing noticeably better acting independently of England.
Independence is normal.
No I haven't I've used Scotland and UK figures and imputed a proportional basis. The small population sizes of Wales and NI would only significantly skew the illustration if death rates of Wales and NI were on a different planet to the rest of the UK. NI is a bit lower but its population is also small so nowhere near enough to undermine the point made.
DeleteThere is one mistake though it's 4,236 not 4,256 but it hardly makes a difference.
The population of England is 56 million by the way not 55. I'm not even sure where the England only data is published, so couldn't be bothered to undertake my own calculations for something that would merely cause a trivial difference.
Why are people so obsessed with comparing Scotland to England. Look at the death toll and rate and the number of cases in Germany.
FAO ramstam, where did you get you're 44,000 deaths figure for England from, you've used that and compared it to deaths from Covid in Scotland with a positive test result.
DeleteThe figure for the whole of the UK with a positive test result is only 41,825 and that includes death figures for Scotland (2,506), Wales (1,603) and NI (577). It's you that's comparing apples with oranges and then going banana's.
Prof John Edmunds, a member of the UK's Sage scientific advisory group but speaking to BBC Radio 4 in a personal capacity, said "we haven’t learned from our mistake" in delaying action in March and "we’re unfortunately about to repeat it".
ReplyDeleteThe scientist from the London School of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene told the Today programme: "I don’t think the measures have gone anywhere near far enough."
"I suspect we will see very stringent measures coming in place throughout the UK at some point, but it will be too late again," he said.
He said that we will have let the epidemic "double and double and double again" before stricter measures are introduced, which will mean "the worst of both worlds" because it will mean "putting the brakes on the epidemic for a very long time, very hard".
Scotgov gone nowhere near far enough, adopting the same four nations approach that they tried in March is just plain crazy.
More from prof
DeleteExplaining why he thought the measures announced by Boris Johnson did not go far enough, he said the March lockdown had been a “combination of many, many, many different measures”. He went on:
Each one of those individual measures, if you break it up, is going to have quite a small effect, actually, on the overall reproduction number, which is probably somewhere round about 2 at the moment.
And so in order to stop the epidemic from growing any further, we have to put a large range of measures in place.
I don’t think the measures in Scotland have gone far enough.
We've gone from Sturgeon declaring the goal of eradication, to elimination, to suppression and now is she making a further move. She called out Boris for not openly stating his aim of suppression so why move in conjunction. If the aim is different, then now is the time to put in place clear blue water between Scotland and rUK.
ReplyDeleteAn Oxford University epidemiologist and practising GP has said he believes yesterday's announcements show the UK is making a "move towards Sweden" in its pandemic policy.
Prof Carl Heneghan told BBC Radio 4's Today programme that there was a "slow shift" towards trying to control the spread of the virus rather than suppressing it, while minimising social disruption.
This could be Sturgeon's defining moment, if she doesn't move and follows the four nations approach of UK and ends of UK creek with everyone else and without a paddle, then confidence and indy numbers will tumble.
It's time for bold action, more dithering and wavering as she does over pushing for a referendum just won't cut it.
Creek - all you do is post a lot of Britnat shit. Sturgeon has never said she is going for eradication - "Sturgeon declaring the goal of eradication".
DeleteClearly you are just another Britnat who likes to lie and misrepresent.
Ignore the stray troll. Just let him bark away until he get bored.
DeleteTAKE BACK CONTROL
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that take back control by the barking mad Brexiteer bampots did not just apply to Brussels but it also applied to Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast.
The SNP have been infiltrated. They do nothing but make a few speeches.
There will be no independence as long as Britnats have power in the SNP. The SNP are fiddling about while Edinburgh burns.
It is time for SNP members to take back control of THEIR party. It is time that the people of Scotland took back control of their country.
SNP members - Scotlands future is in your hands - are you up to it.
It's simple Independence for Scotland.
DeleteDinnae tell SNP members to take back control.
Join up and DAE IT YERSEL!
Ramstam - its SNP members who have let their party get in this state they should clean up the mess. If they cannot do that then they should get out the way and let another party lead the fight for independence.
DeleteWhat other party would you like the SNP to step aside for?
DeleteGie's a clue.
It'd need to be a party on 50% plus to be worth a shot!
Your suggestion is plain daft.
When should the SNP step aside in your view?
It's taken 70 years for the SNP to get to this point.
Let's hear your
oven ready plan if you've actually got one.
Ramstan - never said I had an oven ready plan. That is supposed to the job of the party I voted for all my life..if there is an oven ready plan then it's about time they got cooking instead of just accepting all the shit dropped on them by the Britnats.
Delete70 years 70 years that is great success is it - the gradualists have got you hooked alright. If the current leadership continue in charge people will be writing books in 20 years called The rise and fall of the SNP.
Ye never answered the question!
DeleteWhich party should the SNP stand aside for? The ISP is it?
And I'm nae gradualist BTW.
None of us are. We just need to get there ASAP.
That means not fighting the SNP but voting SNP on the constituency and using the heid on the list vote.
Oh Aye, and don't disrespect the many SNP folk who got us to where Scotland is today.
Many never lived to see a free Scotland despite working all their lives for it.
Ramstam - did you fall of your high horse and bash your head? Try reading my words - I'll help you out - "if they cannot do that ......." note the word IF. So your question is irrelevant to what I said therefore I chose to ignore it. The people disrespecting the SNP and Scottish independence are the people who conspired to put Salmond in jail and wiped him from the SNP history not me.
DeleteNow I am not an SNP member but if you are, perhaps you can explain the process by which Salmond was wiped from the SNP - by whom - whose authority? What a way to treat an ex party leader and the SNPs first FM. Not forgetting the fact that Salmond got Scotland nearer independence than any other leader in 313 years.
Instead of turning your wrath on people who vote for your party you should look at the nature of some of the people in your party and get rid of them. I have nothing but respect for genuine independence supporters in the SNP but I have no wish to see another 70 years of unfulfilled Scottish indepedence supporters passing on.
Oh so what is the SNP oven ready plan for independence then? Is it based on the Proclaimer's song Cap in Hand - please sir can I have a sect 30.
SNP members are delusional if they think these people are interested in independence. Try reading Barrheadboys post. He is one of these long term SNP members and he lays it out straight for you.
I will vote for my SNP constituency candidate if I am convinced that person has not been involved in the criminal persecution of Salmond. I will as before use my heid for my regional list vote.
Of course if the SNP put a mandate for actual independence in its manifesto and not the usual jam tomorrow promises about a referendum then I would vote 100% SNP both votes - even if my constituency candidate was Somerville.
Highest ever number of cases reported in Scotland.
ReplyDeleteScottish numbers: 233 September 2020
486 new cases of COVID-19 reported; this is 7.8% of newly tested individuals.
7.8% now Skier, I can see why you've gone AWOL. Virus spreading like wildfire, completely out of control. Scotgov lost any semblance of a hold on the virus.
You almost seem happy that the numbers are going up, which I find rather odd.
DeleteI am not sure how highlighting a concern and promoting stronger action to deal with it, could possibly be interpreted as happiness with the situation.
DeleteLook Poppy up shit creek the fact remains that:
ReplyDelete2 deaths in Scotland compared to 23 in England .That is a worse figure per capita than Scotland.
What do you say to that?
Ally
It would be 21 on the rounding per captita equivalent for Scotland, hardly a difference at all. Lets see what case numbers are in the UK today for comparison. Not sure being better than England is any benchmark at all though. Poppy up shit creek, nice word play, I like that!
DeleteEngland's politicians of course decide when furlough applies or is ended. Call them UK if you like.
ReplyDeleteScotland in the Union has no such power.
The fact that our figures are better than England's at all is a minor miracle IMO.
Full credit to our independent non-privatised NHS and Scotland's political culture of explaining in detail the requirements of anti-covid measures.
The blundering constant U-turns from the UK has resulted in growing non-compliance In England, and threatens the whole UK.
Beth rigby Just interviewed the Labour leader @Keir_Starmer who tells me he DOES stand by his words that if the SNP win Holyrood in 2021, they would have a mandate for #indyref
ReplyDeleteDebate Night - Usual BBC idea of Political Balance - on the panel 4 against independence 1 for it despite polls now showing a majority for independence in Scotland.
ReplyDeleteThe BBC what a shower of chancers.
Has James Kelly died?
ReplyDeleteNaw, probably still getting over the shock of reading Murrell's Whatsapp message.
DeleteSkier, the same.
There are very nasty people in the Scotgov/SNP. I will vote SNP in 2021 as long as I am not voting for a criminal conspirator in my constituency. I draw the line at voting for a criminal.
The National reporting that Somerville is facing a selection battle. Brilliant.
ReplyDeleteWho could have thought that herding students into university would cause a problem, lets hope they get the required immunity befroe they all go home for
ReplyDeleteChristmas.
A major outbreak of Covid-19 at Glasgow University has led to 172 students testing positive.
Scotland’s University and College Union official Mary Senior said it was “astonishing” that students were being blamed for spreading the virus, and that universities should instead switch to online teaching.
Online teaching now there's an idea, and no furlough required.
We're now at 7.9%.
The university said the actual number of infected students was "likely to be higher", and added that 600 people were self-isolating.
Details emerged as Scotland's national clinical director, Prof Jason Leitch, said he was "very concerned" about outbreaks at several universities.
They include Abertay in Dundee and the University of Aberdeen.
If you wanted to encourage the spread a virus that's mild in young people but kills older people, what would you do. I know put all the young people together for a party. Some great work!
ReplyDeleteA total of 120 cases of coronavirus have been identified in an outbreak at Edinburgh Napier University.
NHS Lothian said the positive results had been confirmed from the establishment by Thursday morning,
Thursday, are we 4 days into term. Few more months of this. And Jason Leitch says, have a party in the pub guys and then go to bed quietly, hmmmm....
hmmmmm Poppy up shit creek
ReplyDeleteI am sorry to tell you that that students at all higher education were given very clear advice regarding risks of covid and how to minimise contagion. The FM has repeatedly pointed out she is not blaming anybody for contracting covid. Also I have to let you know England is not fairing well on covid statistics 2 deaths is Scotland 37 in England.
I don’t know what powers if any ScotGov have to ‘tell’ universities to give up their accommodation income stream.
DeleteBut ScotGov have extended the coronavirus(Scotland) 2020 act until March 2020.
So any student wanting to give up their purpose built accommodation on campus, even if signed up to for the whole year, can give just 28 days notice and leave ‘for coronavirus reasons’ (reasons are not defined in the act.
So they can do what they want really, subject to isolation etc.
Duh. March 2021extension
DeleteRamstan - this post is for you, Skier and Thepnr.
ReplyDeleteSaw this on Twitter: - "How the fcuk did we get in the position where we have to beg the English, not for the right to independence, but just to ask ourselves if we want independence?"
CRINGE.
Ed Davey the Lib Leader has reportedly said the LDs are happy to work with other parties in order to stop the SNP at next years Holyrood Election, gaming the system?
ReplyDelete