Just, wow. What must a tourist think when they see that. It's not even a nice flag, but mostly it indicates an innate insecurity. Be interesting to compare this to stations around the world and their show of nationaiistic insecurity, but I doubt it will be as obvious or apparent as this. Horrible to see this, yuk.
They're probably fine with it. Most people aren't so oversensitive. A lot of tourists like to immerse themselves in all the history and pomp of London. Stuff like Buckingham Palace, changing of the guard, Tower of London, etc. Funnily enough, I saw some French flags when I went to Paris. French flags in the French capital, who'd have thought?
That's fine - as long as they don't call other people narrow nationalists for doing something considerably less nationalistic. That was the point I was making.
But don't you think there's something odd about the sheer number of Union Jacks in a train station? The photo doesn't do them justice - you could hardly move for them.
You won't see French flags away from those outside government buildings; the Mairie being the standard one you'll spot around, normally with single flag. Others are the Gendarmerie in rural settings or the police station in urban.
It's otherwise illegal for anyone but approved government buildings to fly the tricolour; although they are relaxed when it comes to days when France are playing international spots etc.
You certainly won't encounter rows and rows of flags like that in France. You'd need to go back to the war for that and it wasn't the French flying them then.
But don't you think there's something odd about the sheer number of Union Jacks in a train station? The photo doesn't do them justice - you could hardly move for them.
OK, maybe it's a little over the top, but I find it more kitsch than sinister. Like an eccentric lady who has her house filled with Princess Diana memorabilia.
Skier:
That's interesting. I knew that (Unlike in the UK) France has laws banning desecrating the flag, but I didn't know there were controls on what building could fly them. Maybe it was because I was there around Bastille Day. It was a good parade, very big. They even had tanks rolling down the Champs-Élysées, something that you don't see in British military parades. But I never saw any of it as Nazi-esque.
The Flag is the Union Flag. The Jack is when it is flown from a ship or boat. Silly Nat sis. No idea of history. Just sing your sad songs and go away into the dustbin of history.
Oh God! haven't you got some hairs to split? and as far as the dustbin of history is concerned, get back to me on that one after the Holyrood elections!
This kind of talk is why we need independence from England. How many wars have you started by the way. Their football is totally propped up by immigrants. Please keep your posts for the Telegraph or the hootsman.What is the English national dress again?
Murphy you want to really read up on your history,yes you won the world cup and boy have we been getting it slammed into or heads since. But anyway world war 1/2 was everyone from every owned country, island that fought for the United Kingdom not just England. Your an idiot Murphy. And Jock yes you are 1000% right we need to get to fck away from those westminster clowns and a high majority of the english people who think they subsidise us when we know we subsidise them, ok George stop stop heheh.
A quick search on the web and I can find another country which did this; i.e. have rows and rows of flags lined up on buildings as standard. The photos are black and white normally; from the early 1940's, central Europe.
I found that, when there was all that carry on with Emily Thornberry and the flags on that house, that I liked that the guy asserted the fact he felt English. Indicated to me that that, rather than British, was his primary identity. I certainly don't have a problem with people wanting to assert Englishness as separate from the idea of UK; it intimates that they too do not wholly buy into the idea of the latter. If it's okay for people to assert their Scottish identity (it is) then it is also perfectly fine for people to assert it if they feel English to be their primary identity. It'd be hypocritical to argue otherwise.
That said, he was one man choosing to display this. Outside of big events and such, there is no need to have these things fluttering all over train stations and such. People know where they are.
But is the issue here not presumably that they are proud to be British? That and it's a bank holiday weekend with the notting hill carnival on attracting a great deal of tourists, might explain why they were flying. Certainly I've never been overwhelmed by the display of flags when I've been to London, though not sure if it would have bothered me that much. Flags are a strange one though, I'm a Scot in northern Ireland and the St Andrews flag over here is flown by the unionists. Not sure if that makes them yes or no voters!
Exactly. Its all about context. I dont feel at all negative about the UJ when Im in England nor st george x. The Victoria thing is the exception - usually its innocent and twee, like bunting around a cake shop or pub. I barely notice it.
Unfortunately, the same decor outside a village pub in west central scotland and, well, it sends out a whole different message.
Thats not the UJs problem, thats Scotlands problem. And a yes vote vote isnt going to make it go away.
Anon at 7.22 : I was there last year and the flags were there. That was August as well, but much earlier in the month, so I can only assume they're a permanent fixture.
James maybe another armed Rebellion from the Jacobites and their French, Italian Vatican Spanish and Irish Allies could settle the matter. Are you up to it or should we settle for the ballot box to rid us of the English
James, I used to live in Sussex and I was in and out of Victoria all the time. Never saw a single flag then. I left there in 2006, so if they're permanent, they appeared some time in the last 9 years.
Have a nice time in New Brazil by the way. Or is it new Turkey and new Egypt? I wonder what the English make of it all having the Butchers Pinny shoved in their faces daily as they arrive to work in the morning and flee to the commuter belts at the end of it. Well whatever have a good time.
I attended the Edinburgh Military tattoo two nights ago, the finale ended with god save the queen and an assault on Edinburgh Castle with an image of Union Jack, I felt very uneasy with this, as did the rest of the large crowd i assume with their silence to it :(
Same flag that defeated the Nazis and the Kaiser. I suppose you Nat sis would be more comfortable with Adolf. I suppose you really hated the Scots that fought fascism like Irish Republicans did. You really are a bunch of tossers and on the wrong side of history. But do dwell on your Charlie laments.
It's also the same flag that saw Alan Turing a man instrumental in defeating fascism hounded to his death for being a homosexual while Japanese spy Lord Semphill was allowed to walk away Scot free. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/churchill-protected-scottish-peer-suspected-of-spying-for-japan-1173730.html
Not to mention the fact that they while Scots were fighting and dying for the UK, the government was planning to stab Scots in the back.
Crap in my previous post forgot to include this link at the end http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/paleface.jpg. Oh and as for defeating the Kaiser well Germany had universal suffrage in WW1 meaning the soldiers of the German Army had the vote, that is of course unlike the dictatorship that was the UK. There is also the small issue of the UK being allied to the brutal dictator that was the Russian Tsar in WW1. But hey why let inconvenient facts get in the way of revisionist propaganda?
Gwc. I feel sorry for your prejudiced ignorance. The Republic of Eire lost thousands of men in the first world war fighting a futile war for the Brits.
When they had just won their own independence they could not afford to send more men to their deaths. That's why Eire remained neutral. The country was on its knees after fighting the British and their deliberate embargos on Eire. They simply couldn't lose anymore good men.
The history of Brits in Ireland is a shameful one. All good men would be ashamed of it...but your...ahem.
I would make a small point Eire was officially neutral in WW2 unofficially however they gave the allies including the UK a great deal of support. Case in point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donegal_Corridor
The idea that Eire was pro-fascist is simply a British Nationalist myth.
Devalera sent his minister to the German Embassy to give his condolences on the death of Hitler. But I suppose a Jew was as welcome in Dublin as in Berlin. There would be no Scotland or Ireland if Hitler had had his way. Just the 1000 year Reich. You silly Jokes do not get it do you?
Gwc. I feel sorry for your prejudiced ignorance. The Republic of Eire lost thousands of men in the first world war fighting a futile war for the Brits.
When they had just won their own independence they could not afford to send more men to their deaths. That's why Eire remained neutral. The country was on its knees after fighting the British and their deliberate embargos on Eire. They simply couldn't lose anymore good men.
The history of Brits in Ireland is a shameful one. All good men would be ashamed of it...but your...ahem.
Gwc. I feel sorry for your prejudiced ignorance. The Republic of Eire lost thousands of men in the first world war fighting a futile war for the Brits.
When they had just won their own independence they could not afford to send more men to their deaths. That's why Eire remained neutral. The country was on its knees after fighting the British and their deliberate embargos on Eire. They simply couldn't lose anymore good men.
The history of Brits in Ireland is a shameful one. All good men would be ashamed of it...but your...ahem.
What a stupid article. So a train station has a ton of flags showing. Why is this even news? Hundreds of people are dying in terrible situations all over the world and you are getting worked up about some meaningless flag positioning. Did you get upset when you watched any of the Spiderman movies and saw all the American flags? Did you get upset by the Confederate Flag? Does that represent inequality? Talk about first world problems.
Oh grow up. I take it you comment on every blogpost about cheese, or Sarah Michelle Gellar, or lacrosse, and say : 'DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT PEOPLE STARVING IN AFRICA?'
I suspect that what's more likely is that they went up in anticipation of the royal sprog arriving last year - then quite literally they could not be arsed taking them down.
I have no problem with Union Flags, Saltires, Flags of St George etc being flown across all of Britain. It's just a flag - a bit of canvass with some colour in it.
It only becomes a problem when someone takes one of them down, chooses to wrap themselves in it, and proceeds to try and destroy your identity and standard of living.
Just, wow. What must a tourist think when they see that. It's not even a nice flag, but mostly it indicates an innate insecurity. Be interesting to compare this to stations around the world and their show of nationaiistic insecurity, but I doubt it will be as obvious or apparent as this. Horrible to see this, yuk.
ReplyDeleteYeah, yuk yuk yuk! My thoughts entirely. How many flags have that imperialist superiority thing going on around them. It's just not nice.
Delete"What must a tourist think when they see that."
DeleteThey're probably fine with it. Most people aren't so oversensitive. A lot of tourists like to immerse themselves in all the history and pomp of London. Stuff like Buckingham Palace, changing of the guard, Tower of London, etc. Funnily enough, I saw some French flags when I went to Paris. French flags in the French capital, who'd have thought?
That's fine - as long as they don't call other people narrow nationalists for doing something considerably less nationalistic. That was the point I was making.
DeleteBut don't you think there's something odd about the sheer number of Union Jacks in a train station? The photo doesn't do them justice - you could hardly move for them.
You won't see French flags away from those outside government buildings; the Mairie being the standard one you'll spot around, normally with single flag. Others are the Gendarmerie in rural settings or the police station in urban.
DeleteIt's otherwise illegal for anyone but approved government buildings to fly the tricolour; although they are relaxed when it comes to days when France are playing international spots etc.
You certainly won't encounter rows and rows of flags like that in France. You'd need to go back to the war for that and it wasn't the French flying them then.
James:
DeleteBut don't you think there's something odd about the sheer number of Union Jacks in a train station? The photo doesn't do them justice - you could hardly move for them.
OK, maybe it's a little over the top, but I find it more kitsch than sinister. Like an eccentric lady who has her house filled with Princess Diana memorabilia.
Skier:
That's interesting. I knew that (Unlike in the UK) France has laws banning desecrating the flag, but I didn't know there were controls on what building could fly them. Maybe it was because I was there around Bastille Day. It was a good parade, very big. They even had tanks rolling down the Champs-Élysées, something that you don't see in British military parades. But I never saw any of it as Nazi-esque.
The Flag is the Union Flag. The Jack is when it is flown from a ship or boat. Silly Nat sis. No idea of history. Just sing your sad songs and go away into the dustbin of history.
DeleteOh God! haven't you got some hairs to split?
Deleteand as far as the dustbin of history is concerned, get back to me on that one after the Holyrood elections!
2 world wars and 1 World Cup! It was England that won them James!
ReplyDeleteWhen's the last time England was in a war? The English Civil War to be exact.
DeleteThis kind of talk is why we need independence from England. How many wars have you started by the way. Their football is totally propped up by immigrants. Please keep your posts for the Telegraph or
Deletethe hootsman.What is the English national dress again?
Murphy you want to really read up on your history,yes you won the world cup and boy have we been getting it slammed into or heads since. But anyway world war 1/2 was everyone from every owned country, island that fought for the United Kingdom not just England. Your an idiot Murphy. And Jock yes you are 1000% right we need to get to fck away from those westminster clowns and a high majority of the english people who think they subsidise us when we know we subsidise them, ok George stop stop heheh.
DeleteOh forgot, have a nice time in London. Have not been there in iver 20 yrs, thankfully.
ReplyDeleteThanks, but barring the inevitable missed connection, I should only be here for a couple more hours. I'm on my way to the Calais ferry.
DeleteBonnes vacances!
DeletePhotos s'il te plaît!
:)
The hypocrisy of British nationalism knows no bounds. "The train arriving now is at the Butcher's Apron platform".
ReplyDeleteA quick search on the web and I can find another country which did this; i.e. have rows and rows of flags lined up on buildings as standard. The photos are black and white normally; from the early 1940's, central Europe.
ReplyDeleteWould they be more or less nationalistic if they flew the St Georges Cross? Would that be preferable?
ReplyDeleteI found that, when there was all that carry on with Emily Thornberry and the flags on that house, that I liked that the guy asserted the fact he felt English. Indicated to me that that, rather than British, was his primary identity. I certainly don't have a problem with people wanting to assert Englishness as separate from the idea of UK; it intimates that they too do not wholly buy into the idea of the latter. If it's okay for people to assert their Scottish identity (it is) then it is also perfectly fine for people to assert it if they feel English to be their primary identity. It'd be hypocritical to argue otherwise.
DeleteThat said, he was one man choosing to display this. Outside of big events and such, there is no need to have these things fluttering all over train stations and such. People know where they are.
But is the issue here not presumably that they are proud to be British? That and it's a bank holiday weekend with the notting hill carnival on attracting a great deal of tourists, might explain why they were flying. Certainly I've never been overwhelmed by the display of flags when I've been to London, though not sure if it would have bothered me that much. Flags are a strange one though, I'm a Scot in northern Ireland and the St Andrews flag over here is flown by the unionists. Not sure if that makes them yes or no voters!
DeleteExactly. Its all about context. I dont feel at all negative about the UJ when Im in England nor st george x. The Victoria thing is the exception - usually its innocent and twee, like bunting around a cake shop or pub. I barely notice it.
DeleteUnfortunately, the same decor outside a village pub in west central scotland and, well, it sends out a whole different message.
Thats not the UJs problem, thats Scotlands problem. And a yes vote vote isnt going to make it go away.
Anon at 7.22 : I was there last year and the flags were there. That was August as well, but much earlier in the month, so I can only assume they're a permanent fixture.
DeleteJames maybe another armed Rebellion from the Jacobites and their French, Italian Vatican Spanish and Irish Allies could settle the matter. Are you up to it or should we settle for the ballot box to rid us of the English
DeleteJames, I used to live in Sussex and I was in and out of Victoria all the time. Never saw a single flag then. I left there in 2006, so if they're permanent, they appeared some time in the last 9 years.
DeleteHave a nice time in New Brazil by the way. Or is it new Turkey and new Egypt? I wonder what the English make of it all having the Butchers Pinny shoved in their faces daily as they arrive to work in the morning and flee to the commuter belts at the end of it. Well whatever have a good time.
ReplyDeleteI attended the Edinburgh Military tattoo two nights ago, the finale ended with god save the queen and an assault on Edinburgh Castle with an image of Union Jack, I felt very uneasy with this, as did the rest of the large crowd i assume with their silence to it :(
ReplyDeleteYou made this up. Some of my friends attended and loved it. So should the Tattoo be terminated by the brain dead Nat sis?
DeleteThat's just an eyesore and offensive. Why hang a symbol of slavery and prejudice across multiple continents in scotland
ReplyDeleteOffensive! Go and seek some help help from a councillor. What an excuse for a knobend you are.
DeleteWhen I see the union flag,I see the flag of England STAMPED on top of my country's flag.I find that offensive.
ReplyDeleteSame flag that defeated the Nazis and the Kaiser. I suppose you Nat sis would be more comfortable with Adolf. I suppose you really hated the Scots that fought fascism like Irish Republicans did. You really are a bunch of tossers and on the wrong side of history. But do dwell on your Charlie laments.
ReplyDeleteYou insult the families and memories of the Scottish electorate.
DeleteNot the best way to win votes really.
@Glasgow Working Class
DeleteIt's also the same flag that saw Alan Turing a man instrumental in defeating fascism hounded to his death for being a homosexual while Japanese spy Lord Semphill was allowed to walk away Scot free. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/churchill-protected-scottish-peer-suspected-of-spying-for-japan-1173730.html
Not to mention the fact that they while Scots were fighting and dying for the UK, the government was planning to stab Scots in the back.
@Glasgow Working Class
DeleteCrap in my previous post forgot to include this link at the end http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/paleface.jpg. Oh and as for defeating the Kaiser well Germany had universal suffrage in WW1 meaning the soldiers of the German Army had the vote, that is of course unlike the dictatorship that was the UK. There is also the small issue of the UK being allied to the brutal dictator that was the Russian Tsar in WW1. But hey why let inconvenient facts get in the way of revisionist propaganda?
Britain was hardly an exemplary state back around the time of WW2. None of the belligerents were. It's just Germany and Japan were far worse
DeleteGwc. I feel sorry for your prejudiced ignorance. The Republic of Eire lost thousands of men in the first world war fighting a futile war for the Brits.
ReplyDeleteWhen they had just won their own independence they could not afford to send more men to their deaths. That's why Eire remained neutral. The country was on its knees after fighting the British and their deliberate embargos on Eire. They simply couldn't lose anymore good men.
The history of Brits in Ireland is a shameful one. All good men would be ashamed of it...but your...ahem.
I would make a small point Eire was officially neutral in WW2 unofficially however they gave the allies including the UK a great deal of support. Case in point https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donegal_Corridor
DeleteThe idea that Eire was pro-fascist is simply a British Nationalist myth.
Devalera sent his minister to the German Embassy to give his condolences on the death of Hitler. But I suppose a Jew was as welcome in Dublin as in Berlin. There would be no Scotland or Ireland if Hitler had had his way. Just the 1000 year Reich. You silly Jokes do not get it do you?
DeleteGwc. I feel sorry for your prejudiced ignorance. The Republic of Eire lost thousands of men in the first world war fighting a futile war for the Brits.
ReplyDeleteWhen they had just won their own independence they could not afford to send more men to their deaths. That's why Eire remained neutral. The country was on its knees after fighting the British and their deliberate embargos on Eire. They simply couldn't lose anymore good men.
The history of Brits in Ireland is a shameful one. All good men would be ashamed of it...but your...ahem.
Gwc. I feel sorry for your prejudiced ignorance. The Republic of Eire lost thousands of men in the first world war fighting a futile war for the Brits.
ReplyDeleteWhen they had just won their own independence they could not afford to send more men to their deaths. That's why Eire remained neutral. The country was on its knees after fighting the British and their deliberate embargos on Eire. They simply couldn't lose anymore good men.
The history of Brits in Ireland is a shameful one. All good men would be ashamed of it...but your...ahem.
The Butcher'Apron is merely a kid-on flag for nothing much at all.
ReplyDeleteI use it on my front door-mat and wipe the dirt off my feet on it every day.
Best thing for it, really.
The only flag for Scotland is the proud Saltire.
The Union Joke, is nothing more than that.
What a stupid article. So a train station has a ton of flags showing. Why is this even news? Hundreds of people are dying in terrible situations all over the world and you are getting worked up about some meaningless flag positioning. Did you get upset when you watched any of the Spiderman movies and saw all the American flags? Did you get upset by the Confederate Flag? Does that represent inequality? Talk about first world problems.
ReplyDeleteOh grow up. I take it you comment on every blogpost about cheese, or Sarah Michelle Gellar, or lacrosse, and say : 'DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT PEOPLE STARVING IN AFRICA?'
DeleteAnon if you take your logic to the extreme. Everything we complained about something, we would have to source a thousand other examples that exist.
ReplyDeleteIt's like me complaining to my boss about my salary. And him saying but what about Joe your colleague and Mike in Chicago... Context Anon!
Anon if you take your logic to the extreme. Everything we complained about something, we would have to source a thousand other examples that exist.
ReplyDeleteIt's like me complaining to my boss about my salary. And him saying but what about Joe your colleague and Mike in Chicago... Context Anon!
I suspect that what's more likely is that they went up in anticipation of the royal sprog arriving last year - then quite literally they could not be arsed taking them down.
ReplyDeleteI have no problem with Union Flags, Saltires, Flags of St George etc being flown across all of Britain. It's just a flag - a bit of canvass with some colour in it.
ReplyDeleteIt only becomes a problem when someone takes one of them down, chooses to wrap themselves in it, and proceeds to try and destroy your identity and standard of living.
Aldo