As the late, great Professor Anthony King would have said in his inimitable Canadian accent, "it's another terrrr-ible night for the Conservatives". When a GB-wide YouGov poll a couple of days ago saw the Tory lead fall sharply from 23% to 16%, there was always just a chance it was a meaningless blip caused by random sampling variation, but that possibility has been snuffed out tonight by a new YouGov poll showing a further fall. The lead now stands at just 13% - meaning it has been almost halved over the course of just a week.
Britain-wide voting intentions (YouGov) :
Conservatives 44% (-1)
Labour 31% (+2)
Liberal Democrats 11% (+1)
UKIP 6% (-1)
SNP/Plaid Cymru 4% (-1)
It's possible (perhaps likely) that there will be some kind of reversion to the mean in the next YouGov poll, but there can be no real doubt that at least some of the narrowing of the gap is genuine. Other pollsters confirm it, with both ORB and Opinium agreeing that Labour have now broken back through the 30% barrier.
Britain-wide voting intentions (ORB) :
Conservatives 42% (-2)
Labour 31% (+2)
Liberal Democrats 10% (+2)
UKIP 8% (-2)
SNP 4% (-1)
Britain-wide voting intentions (Opinium) :
Conservatives 47% (+2)
Labour 30% (+4)
Liberal Democrats 8% (-3)
UKIP 7% (-2)
SNP 5% (+1)
Of course the support Labour have been clawing back is merely the low-hanging fruit - in other words, core voters who were perhaps never likely to desert the fold after considered reflection, but who temporarily got caught up in the hoo-ha over the calling of the snap election. It's interesting to speculate what the receding of the Tory surge is going to mean for Scottish voting intentions, because the surge we saw here seemed directly tied to the Britain-wide one. The obvious hope is that the new British trend will also be replicated north of the border, ideally with some Brexit/No supporters moving directly back to the SNP after flirting with Theresa May's "strength and stability" (ahem). Less ideally, we'll see Tory flirters switching to Labour - but thanks to the vagaries of first-past-the-post, that would actually work in the SNP's favour more than Labour's. By far the most important objective for the SNP is to increase the gap between themselves and the second-placed Tories - a healthy raw percentage share of the vote would just be the icing on the cake.
For what it's worth, the Scottish subsamples of both the ORB and Opinium polls give the SNP a very solid 20% advantage over the Tories. The YouGov datasets haven't yet been published at time of writing.
If (and it is still a very big if) we find that the Scottish Tory surge has now passed its peak, we may have dodged a bullet as far as Thursday's local elections are concerned. Most people who cast a postal vote do so as soon as they receive their ballot paper, which means that many will have voted prior to Easter - and of course the Tory surge wasn't triggered until the Tuesday after Easter, when Theresa May dropped her bombshell about a snap general election. So if postal voters largely voted before the surge, and everyone else votes after the surge has receded, we could end up with a pretty decent result.
* * *
When the Sunday Times commission full-scale Scottish polls from Panelbase, they have an odd habit of holding back some of the supplementary results for a full week. Accordingly, we now have some more details from last week's poll, and they're pretty encouraging from a pro-independence point of view. Although (as we already knew) the headline independence question produced figures of Yes 45.2%, No 54.8%, it turns out that Panelbase also asked the question in a different way, with three possible options - independence within the EU, independence outside the EU, or remaining within the UK after it leaves the EU. There is a small combined majority in favour of the two pro-independence options, with 41% favouring independence within the EU, and a further 10% wanting independence outside the EU. The snag is that taking advantage of this natural majority would, on the face of it, require a kind of Schrodinger's Indy - ie. the prospect of somehow being inside and outside the EU simultaneously. But it's not impossible that there may be a way of squaring that circle in the heat of an independence referendum.
The chances of that referendum taking place have been boosted by Panelbase's finding that a majority of respondents (52%) think that the SNP would have the right to hold a vote if they win a majority of Scottish seats at the general election. That outcome is, of course, already pretty much a nailed-on certainty, regardless of whether the Tory surge recedes. It would only require the SNP to win 30 seats - and yet the unionist media want us to believe that 45 seats (a 75% super-majority) would somehow be a disastrous result for Nicola Sturgeon!
Pedant time: the Scottish subsamples of both the ORB and Opinium polls give the SNP a very solid 20 *point* advantage over the Tories. (The percentage advantage is more like 67%.)
ReplyDeleteThe SNP vote appears to be strong and stable if these sub-samples are to correct. The rise in the Tory vote might bring out an anti Tory vote.
ReplyDeleteEvery party in govt. that controls the electoral cycle expects sound kind of 'announcement bounce' when they call an election.
DeleteThey completely dominate the news for days if not weeks because they are the news and their actions are immediately given a megaphone along with the inevitable election coverage getting into gear and producing article after article and content across all broadcasters.
Why so many people have forgotten this I have no idea.
Perhaps because in a a true snap election there would have been plans long made to immediately capitalise on the announcement. Plans that would have usually involved a confident leader using the 'announce bounce' to then launch into a flurry of electoral activity and debates.
Not so in a panic election where the follow-up by May has been farcical and comical. Completely exposing her weakness as a leader while reinforcing the doubts soft-tory voters might have had.
You also don't waste the announce bounce completely for postal voters in council elections if this was all planned and not panic. Those voters are taking part in still very important local elections which will inevitably dominate the speculation about the westminster elections.
Those will be real concrete results and not the less than 100% reliable snapshots that are opinion polls.
Representation of the People Act 1983
Delete1983 c. 2 Part III Prosecutions for corrupt or illegal practices Section 173
(1)Subject to subsection (2) below, a person convicted of a corrupt or illegal practice—
(a)shall, during the relevant period specified in subsection (3) below, be incapable of—
(i)being registered as an elector or voting at any parliamentary election in the United Kingdom or at any local government election in Great Britain, or
(ii)being elected to the House of Commons, or
(iii)holding any elective office; and
(b)if already elected to a seat in the House of Commons or holding any such office, shall vacate the seat or office subject to and in accordance with subsections (4) and (5) below.
(3)For the purposes of subsection (1)(a) above the relevant period is the period beginning with the date of the conviction and ending—
(a)in the case of a person convicted of a corrupt practice, five years after that date, or
(b)in the case of a person convicted of an illegal practice, three years after that date,
except that if (at any time within that period of five or three years) a court determines on an appeal by that person against the conviction that it should not be upheld, the relevant period shall end at that time instead.
(4)Where subsection (1)(b) applies to any person, he shall (subject to subsection (5) below) vacate the seat or office in question at the appropriate time for the purposes of this section, namely—
(a)the end of the period which is the period prescribed by law within which notice of appeal may be given, or an application for leave to appeal may be made, by him in respect of the conviction, or
(b)if (at any time within that period) that period is extended—
(i)the end of the period as so extended, or
(ii)the end of the period of three months beginning with the date of the conviction,
whichever is the earlier.
(5)If (before the appropriate time mentioned in subsection (4) above) notice of appeal is given, or an application for leave to appeal is made, by such a person in respect of the conviction, he shall vacate the seat or office in question at the end of the period of three months beginning with the date of the conviction unless—
(a)such an appeal is dismissed or abandoned at any earlier time (in which case he shall vacate the seat or office at that time), or
(b)at any time within that period of three months the court determines on such an appeal that the conviction should not be upheld (in which case the seat or office shall not be vacated by him).
(6)Where such a person vacates a seat or office in accordance with subsection (4) or (5) above, no subsequent determination of a court that his conviction should not be upheld shall entitle him to resume the seat or office.
(7)If a person convicted of a corrupt or illegal practice has already been elected to a seat in the House of Commons or to any elective office, he shall (in addition to being subject to the incapacities mentioned in subsection (1)(a) above) be suspended from performing any of his functions as a Member of Parliament, or (as the case may be) any of the functions of that office, during the period of suspension specified in subsection (8) below.
Have you asked Ruth Goebbels Davidson how the PV vote is going for the Yoons?
ReplyDeleteThere was also a question on next referendum from YouGov.
ReplyDeleteScotland // There [X] be a referendum on Scottish independence in the next five years:
Should: 42%
Should not: 51%
(YouGov / 24-27 Apr)
Not sure if it's been asked before or if there is movement there.
where's this poll
ReplyDeleteScotland Elects @scotelects
Scottish independence voting intention:
Yes: 51%
No: 48%
(Panelbase/Sunday Times / 30/04/17)
Saw someone talking about it on another forum, but no link provided and can't find it myself. Hoax?
DeleteYou can't find it yourself? In spite of the fact it's mentioned in the blogpost you're commenting on? I do sometimes get the impression you're not really paying attention, Aldo.
DeleteIsn't the Times a pay site? Usually polls of this nature would be jumped all over by blogs like this one. If genuine, you're pretty slow off the mark.
DeleteSorry...what?! As I've just pointed out to you, the poll was mentioned in the blogpost you're commenting on, which was posted ELEVEN HOURS AGO. It seems that not only did you not bother reading the blogpost you're commenting on, but you couldn't even be bothered reading a three-sentence comment in which I pointed out to you that the answer to your question is contained in the blogpost you hadn't bothered reading.
DeleteCalm down. Now I can see why a bigger deal hasn't been made of this. Its a non standard referendum question. Indy in EU / Indy out of EU / No indy. Obviously in a straight yes / no some will split off to 'no' in the event they don't get their preference regarding the EU.
DeleteIf you want me to calm down, try reading what you're (theoretically) responding to. It's basic courtesy.
DeleteJames, you need to stop flying off the handle. I cannot get onto the Times website as it has a paywall. So I visited sites like this one hoping to get some details. You should be glad that people come to you for information.
DeleteThe tory troll 'Aldo' calls scottish people "morbidly obese, dangerously unfit and nicotine stained." Described opponents of the Tory Rape Clause as "spaz" "chav" "loser" and "autistic". Spouts vile abuse about mental heath involving the mothers of scottish posters on here and generally behaves like a tory ned.
DeleteCraig MurrayVerified account @CraigMurrayOrg 6 hours ago
DeleteMay car crash on Marr. "There are many complex reasons why people going to foodbanks". No, it's because they are going hungry.
The DM Reporter @DMReporter 2 hours ago
DeleteThis week’s Daily Mail Cancer List:
Mo) Footprints
Tu) Being ugly
We) Ham
Th) Swimming
Fr) Rock music
Sa) Feelings
Su) NHS cancer treatments
It'll come down to the popular vote result. If Tories+Labour+Libs+UKIP gives a result greater than 50%, then we have, in effect, a referendum on a referendum that has produced a 'no' result. The SNP argument about 30 seats or more ignores two realities:
ReplyDelete1) Maths.
2) Legality - a majority in the UK parliament is 326 seats, not 30.
Good. In that case I look forward to Theresa May resigning in disgrace when she fails to receive 50% of the popular vote. No mandate to do anything, you see. Maths.
DeleteTory + UKIP vote likely to be above 50% so brexit is covered. And, if not, she has the referendum result to fall back on.
DeleteBut she lost the referendum???????
DeleteYes, but she's a democrat first and foremost. You implement the will of the people.
DeleteExcellent. When is she implementing Devo Max?
DeleteDefine devomax?
DeleteDevo Max Means Devo Max.
DeleteWhen did we vote for it?
DeleteThe tory troll 'Aldo' calls scottish people "morbidly obese, dangerously unfit and nicotine stained." Described opponents of the Tory Rape Clause as "spaz" "chav" "loser" and "autistic". Spouts vile abuse about mental heath involving the mothers of scottish posters on here and generally behaves like a tory ned.
DeleteSunday MailVerified account @Sunday_Mail 5 hours ago
DeleteThere's no forgetting Ruth Davidson is a Tory who supports 'repugnant' policies, says Lesley Roberts
There are no Tory neds Mick. If you get set about by a ruffian in the Glasgow underground, chances are that person doesn't believe in restricting public spending and law & order.
DeleteWings Over Scotland @WingsScotland 32 minutes ago
DeleteTories: "Don't vote SNP, you'll let Labour in!"
Labour: "Don't vote Tory, you'll let the SNP in!"
pic.twitter.com/J9q2NSRa0O
BarcelonaNil @BarcelonaNil
DeleteI don't mind @murdo_fraser - He's funny. He calls Rangers the Queen's 11 and everything. His account is like 1970s.
A two for one deal on stupid comments. If the SNP aren't standing in the GE on an independence platform then in order to claim public rejection of a second referendum the "unionist" parties would have to officially mention that in their manifestos.
DeleteThat leads into Aldo's second comment. A majority at Westminster is kind of irrelevant in the case of Scottish self determination. Securing a Westminster majority on a platform of opposing that right won't sit well with a lot of foreign nations including the vast majority of those in the EU.
The difference in franchises between a referendum where 16 and 17 year olds would save a say as well as EU citizens might also undermine any claim that a combined total of votes from parties who would be fools to include a fundamental rejection of one of the UK's committments as a UN member denoted anything.
yes 51% in the EU .
ReplyDeletewhy don't pollsters talk normal
ReplyDeleteThere is a GB-wide YouGov poll with an immense sample size of 12,746 that has the SNP/PC on an astonishing 6%. Unfortunately results not broken down by nation and region (which is almost unheard of). Wonder why? ;) (Hint: the combined SNP/PC vote was 5% at UK GE 2015, so 6% must mean the SNP are above 50%, or else Plaid Cymru have quadrupled their vote.)
ReplyDeletehttps://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/i70tdeyvag/InternalResults_170420_Demographics_all_W.pdf
Or GB wide polls don't take full account of the demographics of Scotland and Wales?
DeleteThe tory troll 'Aldo' calls scottish people "morbidly obese, dangerously unfit and nicotine stained." Described opponents of the Tory Rape Clause as "spaz" "chav" "loser" and "autistic". Spouts vile abuse about mental heath involving the mothers of scottish posters on here and generally behaves like a tory ned.
DeleteWings Over Scotland @WingsScotland 3 hours ago
DeleteWe had no idea that this was what @ProfTomkins really meant all those times he said "We Are The People":
https://wingsoverscotland.com/tomkins-for-independence/ … #watp
Eoin Clarke @LabourEoin 5h
DeleteOuch. Andrew Marr has dropped a truth bomb on Theresa May. She backed Tony Blair 100% on the Iraq Invasion.
snowthistle @snowthistle 7 hours ago
DeleteEU sets Britain tough divorce terms, slams budget veto http://reut.rs/2pdZcv8 via @Reuters
Jamie @jamieszymko 22 hours ago
ReplyDeleteFolk are actually shouting "meet the people" at cowardly May as she scuttles into hiding while in Scotland
Meet the people, hit me with yer shovel Mick. Is that a cross section of drunken slappers leaving Glesga Central half pissed to go and get shagged then find a man then claim benefits! Sorry ah dont know who the faither wis there wis a bunch of them.
DeleteThe troll 'GWC2' calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, arbitrary deportations and public mutilations, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial, homophobic and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor
DeleteNat si Scotlanf todayl. Nat sis refuse to honour pledge to eradicate food banks. Topping up so called welfare cuts forgotten. Taxing the rich forgotten. Religious nutters allowed to leaflet Catholic schools in Falkirk with homophobic literature.
ReplyDeleteScotland has moved to the right under Nat si rule and yet they blame the Tories.
The Tories now emerging as a force in Scotland in opposing Jock fascism and constant lies.
The troll 'GWC2' / Fitalass calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, arbitrary deportations and public mutilations, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial, homophobic and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor
DeleteThe Scottish Government can't do what you want unless they have full fiscal autonomy. INDEPENDANCE.
DeleteYou need loadsamoney tae dae that. So we will have a rich minority and small middle class plus a poor underclass. Who will be the subsidisers!
DeleteThe troll 'GWC2' / Fitalass calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, arbitrary deportations and public mutilations, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial, homophobic and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor
DeleteGo away you silly little boy and put something on your spots.
Delete@Paul
DeleteNah it's nappy rash.
a real life alan partridge
DeleteDavid WalliamsVerified account @davidwalliams 5h
ReplyDeleteA sneak peak at me and Matt's brand new 'Little Britain' characters.
pic.twitter.com/VJqkKAy3Nj
bad cross break for the SNP in Yougov's poll today.
ReplyDeleteSNP 36%
Tory 32%
Labour 25%
Lib/D 5%
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/3vot7qrway/SundayTimesResults_170428.pdf
cross break
Deletelol
There's a mistake in the table. Although other parties are listed as 8 percent point, in the subtable they only account for 6 (4 SNP/PC and 2 Greens). Corroborated with a previous table, it is more likely to be 6 for SNP/PC. Tentatively, that would raise the voting intention for the SNP into the high 40s percent-wise.
DeleteDavid Halliday @DavidJFHalliday 32 minutes ago
ReplyDeleteBrussels, 8 June 2017:
"The Tories have taken Chorley!"
"Oh no! That's strengthened her hand with us."
[Pause]
[Together] "Hahahahaha!"
Conrad HackettVerified account @conradhackett Apr 26
ReplyDeleteIncome gains going to top 1% in
1954-7: 5%
1975-9: 25%
2009-12: 95%
http://nyti.ms/1BhNrQq
The Blue Tories are now probably left of centre while the Yellow Jock Nat sis Tartan Tories are now the far right party in Scotland. Labour are the only party that resemble anything to the left in Scotland. Good people must stand firm and oppose the rascist English hating Nat sis. Thank goodness Emelda shab me shoes Knickerless does not control the military.
ReplyDeleteThe troll 'GWC2' / Fitalass calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, arbitrary deportations and public mutilations, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial, homophobic and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor
DeleteDavid Halliday @DavidJFHalliday 32 minutes ago
ReplyDeleteBrussels, 8 June 2017:
"The Tories have taken Chorley!"
"Oh no! That's strengthened her hand with us."
[Pause]
[Together] "Hahahahaha!"
We Unionists are setting up a helpline for Jock Nat sis that may feel suicidal after the election. The Number is 0800 1690 1746. Calls cost £1.50p per minute. Cost can be recovered with a benefit claim. Call 0800 1690 1746 to claim. Note: You may be held in a queue as a large number of calls are expected.
ReplyDeleteThe troll 'GWC2' / Fitalass calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, arbitrary deportations and public mutilations, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial, homophobic and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor
DeleteWe tried to tell you @LabourOutOfScot 7 hours ago
ReplyDelete"There are many 'complex reasons' why people are going hungry". Having a Tory Government driving people into poverty is the main one
Has rape got anything tae dae wi hunger!
ReplyDeleteIf Scottish people are hungry then they are not eating! If they cannot afford to eat then the Scottish government are to blame. Cut MSP'S by half and raise tax from the better aff. Scottish Nat si supporters should voluntarily pay additional tax to comply with their conscience! Aye right the English should pay.
ReplyDeleteThe troll 'GWC2' / Fitalass calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, arbitrary deportations and public mutilations, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial, homophobic and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor
DeleteTony Wilson @TonyWilson47 13 hours ago
ReplyDeleteNext week Ruth davidson will be interviewing herself on the BBC to back this true story up
Scottish Nat sis seem tae be intae rape. The subject makes them prefix comments. Rape must be a particular problem with Jock Nat sis.
DeleteEdinburgh RapeCrisis @EdinRapeCrisis
DeleteAct NOW to end the #rapeclause! Find your MP at https://is.gd/R9cRv5 & write to them - template letter at https://is.gd/fw3sD
Hide GWC spam with this bookmarklet:
ReplyDeletejavascript:(function(){function e(a){for(;(a=a.parentElement)&&!a.classList.contains("comment"););return a}var c,b,d,f=document.querySelectorAll(".comment-block"),g=window.atob("d29ya2luZyBjbGFzc3xnd2N8bmF0IHNpfGtuaWNrZXJsZXNzfGdsZXNnYSBmYWtlIG5ld3M=").split("|");Array.prototype.forEach.call(f,function(a){d=!1;c=a.textContent.toLowerCase().replace(/\s\s+/g," ");if(d=g.some(function(a){return-1<c.indexOf(a)}))b=e(a),b.parentNode.removeChild(b)})})();
Sheep are a respite from Scottish men for Scottish wummin.
DeleteSheep are a respite from Scottish men for Scottish wummin.
DeleteThe troll 'GWC2' / Fitalass calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, arbitrary deportations and public mutilations, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial, homophobic and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor
DeleteThats why I prefer goats especially when they are wearing lipstick.
DeleteThe troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, arbitrary deportations and public mutilations, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial, homophobic, sexist and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor
DeleteMhairi Hunter @MhairiHunter 2h
ReplyDeleteIf you're contemplating voting Tory have a quick swatch at #CripTheVoteUK to see why you really shouldn't.
Apart from the cruelty also read how disabled people have been forced to give up work due to Tory policy. Counterproductive and stupid.
Paisley opportunist talks crap.
DeleteThe troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, arbitrary deportations and public mutilations, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial, homophobic, sexist and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor
DeleteJamie @jamieszymko 22 hours ago
ReplyDeleteFolk are actually shouting "meet the people" at cowardly May as she scuttles into hiding while in Scotland
Richard Murphy @RichardJMurphy
DeleteMay's claim that the Tories cooperated with the Electoral Commission is a straightforward lie according to the Electoral Commission
Paul Kavanagh @weegingerdug Apr 29
ReplyDeleteThe nasty divisiveness of Scottish Unionism https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2017/04/27/the-nasty-divisiveness-of-scottish-unionism …