Monday, June 16, 2025

FAQs on how the SNP might be able to win independence by using their leverage in a hung parliament

About a week ago, I published a blogpost setting out how there may be a 15-25% chance of the SNP holding the balance of power at Westminster after the next election and being able to use that to win an independence referendum.  As the 15-25% estimate implies, I do not think that's a particularly likely method by which independence can be won, but in circumstances where the SNP leadership have needlessly self-imposed almost impossible thresholds that have to be achieved before any other action towards winning independence can be taken, it may well be that a hung parliament is actually the most plausible remaining hope for progress in the relatively near future.

Even having clearly set out that major caveat, however, it was perhaps inevitable that some people were still going to be triggered by a post suggesting that independence could come about as a result of the SNP negotiating with Westminster parties, rather than by some madcap process involving Barrhead Boy stripping English people who live in Scotland of voting rights, "Liberate Scotland" sweeping to a landslide election victory, and then a grand march to the UN to beg them to decolonise us.  Consequently I received some rather colourful 'feedback', and I thought I'd respond to some of it here...

If using the balance of power at Westminster to win independence is such a wizard idea, why didn't the SNP do that in the 2015-17 parliament when they had 56 MPs?  Hmmm?  Hmmm????

Simple answer: because they didn't hold the balance of power in 2015-17.  There wasn't even a hung parliament during that period.  There was instead a Conservative government with a clear overall majority.  Doh!  Next...

Isn't the Section 30 route to an independence referendum dead?

This is an odd question because I didn't actually mention the Section 30 route at any point.  Because the UK parliament is sovereign, there are two ways in which an independence referendum could happen if the SNP hold the balance of power.  One is the Section 30 route, yes, in which Westminster would delegate powers to the Scottish Parliament to legislate for a referendum.  But the other way is simply Westminster itself directly legislating for a referendum.  The beauty of the latter option is that it means in theory a referendum could happen even if pro-independence parties fall slightly short of a majority in next year's Holyrood election.

But as far as the Section 30 route is concerned, that's only dead just now because the SNP have no leverage to bring it about.  A hung parliament is one of the few situations in which they might regain the necessary leverage.

If independence happened as a result of a Labour-SNP deal to form a government, the SNP seats at Westminster would disappear on independence day and the government would no longer have a majority after that point, so what incentive would there be for Labour to agree to a deal involving an independence referendum?

There are two answers to that.  First of all, Labour might well still think a referendum is winnable for the "No" side.  Secondly, the independence process - not just the referendum but the negotiations that would follow any Yes vote - might well take three years or more, so the SNP seats would remain in place for the bulk of a five-year Westminster parliament.

If the SNP were part of the government at Westminster, wouldn't that mean they'd be negotiating an independence referendum, and a subsequent independence deal, with themselves?

I struggle to see why that would be any sort of problem - it would actually smooth the process considerably.  But no, any governing arrangement between the SNP and Labour would be unlikely to involve the SNP taking up ministerial office in Westminster - it's much more likely to be a confidence-and-supply agreement with the SNP remaining on the opposition benches.  When it seemed possible in the run-up to the 2015 election that the SNP would hold the balance of power, I personally argued that there was no good reason for them not to get involved in a full-blown coalition if it meant holding the position of Secretary of State for Scotland.  But they seemed allergic to the idea at the time and I doubt if anything has changed since then.

But any referendum won by negotiating with Westminster parties would be another non-binding referendum - that's no use!

This objection makes absolutely zero sense.  The only way a referendum can be binding is if Westminster approves that principle in advance, so if that's the kind of referendum you want, you can only get it via negotiations with Westminster. Any informal vote we organise ourselves, regardless of whether it's a referendum or a scheduled election doubling as a de facto referendum, would by definition be non-binding.  Its purpose would simply be to produce a Yes majority that would pile moral pressure on Westminster to come back to the negotiating table.

Didn't the Tories and DUP in combination have a Commons majority of only one seat in 2017?  (This excitingly left-field question comes from a controversial and increasingly far-right Somerset-based blogger, universally known as "Stew".)

No.  They had a nominal majority of six, but to all intents and purposes it was actually thirteen due to Sinn Féin declining to take up their seats.  No idea why you thought it was only one, Stew - you must have been using your wonky abacus again.

Wouldn't the Tories and SNP in combination have had a much more robust majority of 30 seats in 2017?  (This one also comes from "Stew".)

Wonky Abacus Klaxon yet again: the Tories and SNP in combination would have had a majority of 56 seats in 2017.  So what?  The SNP did not hold the balance of power at any point in the 2017-19 parliament, as can be seen from the fact that the Conservative government successfully sustained itself in office even though the SNP consistently voted against it in no confidence votes.  (Although there was an early election in 2019, that only came about because the Tories themselves voted in favour of it.)  But the idea of the SNP trying to win a Yes vote in an independence referendum in the context of them propping up a Tory government at Westminster is certainly an 'interesting' one, Stew.

And as for Stew's hoary old claim that there was a more limited one-off deal to be done, with the SNP agreeing to vote for Theresa May's soft Brexit plan in return for an independence referendum, I've debunked that umpteen times.  May wouldn't have been interested in such a deal because she was a conviction politician on the issue of "Our Precious Union", and she would have known it would be counter-productive anyway - her own backbenchers would have been so outraged by a deal putting the Union in peril that she would have lost far more votes for the soft Brexit plan than she'd have gained.

No, the only way a deal at Westminster will ever result in an independence referendum is if the SNP are able to offer a stable governing majority to a centre-left administration.

73 comments:

  1. The problem is that if this eventuality came to pass the current leadership would baulk at doing anything remotely controversial to forward Scotlands case for independence.
    Personally I struggle to see any point engaging with Westminster in how we achieve independence. The Scottish Parliament has to challenge its remit and go over Westminster’s head in any new attempt

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  2. Replies
    1. And then? I had to set PAB right when he used to chunter on about UDI. He couldn’t provide even an outline of the steps he would take. He is now noticeable by his absence. I am asking you the same question about your proposal for a de facto referendum. If you “win” the de facto referendum what do you do then. In your own time. I’m in no hurry.

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    2. Wow a really scary anon at 5.01pm whose claim to fame is he set PAB right. Listen you diddy I am not a FM or even a politician who garners votes on the basis of supposedly being the vehicle for independence. Yet here you are trying to harass me. I don't give a monkeys if you are in no hurry. Your " in your own time " is the classic aggressive troll comment. So post on SGP with a consistent moniker and I may reply to your question in my own time.
      Did you ask Sturgeon that question when she proposed a de facto referendum? Did you ask Sturgeon that question when she promised time and time again Indyref2 over a period of about 8 years? Well did you? If you did what was the answer? You answer this first anon and use a consistent moniker or I suggest you become " noticeable by your absence".

      People like you are unbelievable. There is no action by the SNP on independence including a de facto despite it being promised by Sturgeon and you are demanding from me what is next.

      A yes vote for independence will always be a good thing to have. I will not win a de facto referendum as you say. The people of Scotland will have voted yes. Who says I do anything then. Oh that's right some anon on SGP seems to think I am FM of Scotland. Spoiler for you anon I am not.

      The people of Scotland will have voted yes.
      The people of Scotland will have voted yes.
      The people of Scotland will have voted yes.

      Seems an obvious positive step to Scottish independence but some random anon needs it spelled out.

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    3. anonymous @ 5:01pm

      "I had to set PAB right when he used to chunter on about UDI. He couldn’t provide even an outline of the steps he would take. He is now noticeable by his absence."

      WTAF are you talking about?
      Are you a troll, en egoist or an ignoramus?

      PAB has been chuntering on about his 6 steps for so long that my ears have nearly fallen off! Search for #ScottishUDI

      On the wildly improbable chance that you have just arrived on the internet in Scotland , and don't already know that this isn't 2014 any more, I will post for you here the link to:
      Manifesto For Independence.
      PABs now existent answer to your sage questioning.
      https://manifestoforindependence.scot/

      or the previous site from last year, when PAB definitely didn't have any answers from you then either:
      https://newscotlandparty.scot/
      https://newscotlandparty.scot/manifesto-for-independence/
      :-)

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    4. alurker asks " Are you a troll, an egotist or an ignoramus. " He is definitely a troll and an ignoramus who will lie about anything. He is David Francis the Britnat troll who is happy for the SNP to do nothing about Scottish independence even though he now claims HE has a plan for independence but refuses to share it or even explain why he disnae give his plan to the SNP for them to implement.
      A very disturbed person.

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  3. Surely the biggest obstacle (sorry, second biggest after John Swinney) is that a UK GE is over four years away. With Labour having one of the biggest majorities in Westminster history, it's not going to happen any sooner.
    I'd love to think that the SNP would have a thorough 'what if' plan ready by then but honestly, given their track record of showing indifference to such opportunities, I really doubt it. Maybe, if Flynn is leader?

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    Replies
    1. "Surely the biggest obstacle..."

      That's not an obstacle at all - I'm talking about an election in 2028 or 2029, I'm not talking about anything else.

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  4. Strongly doubt Labour will ok any deal of this sort with SNP, they would pay such a steep price electorally for it - for many, many years to come.

    Starmer is big into wrapping himself in the UK flag, an attempt to attract voters swithering between Labour and Reform not least west to east along the M62 corridor in places such as Knowsley, Batley and Hull.

    Even if SNP held balance of power I would expect Labour picking fresh elections over any deal of the sort you’re suggesting. Governments come and go but electoral oblivion can last a long, long time.

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    1. And one way of buying yourself electoral oblivion is to turn down the chance of power and put Nigel Farage into office instead. Labour may not have the option of "fresh elections", or the polls may tell them they would be hammered in fresh elections, which amounts to an identical problem.

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  5. Swinney would look better in a baseball cap and he could mimic Trump by having it say MAKE SCOTLAND INDEPENDENT AGAIN.

    Alternatively he could reappoint that hard working Hepworth guy back to his ministerial piston as Minister for Independence.

    Do both and we would be independent in no time. No need to have our fingers crossed re a UK GE result.

    That IFS is always saying where is the SNP plan well there you go. Thats a great plan. With regard to timescales it would be all over by Spring 2027. We could boost the Scottish economy by producing a few million baseball caps saying “Honest John fixed it for Scotland “ to mark our independence. The ugly statue of Dewar in Glasgow could be tore down and slapped with our shoes and replaced by a modern David type statue of John Swinney in all his glory. Wearing his baseball cap of course.

    What’s not to like about this plan.

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    Replies
    1. Anon at 10.47pm - Finally an SNP plan we can all get behind. Can I suggest a small tweak to this great plan. Swinney should ditch the accountant/office manager glasses, wear contact lenses and sunglasses.

      Just as Theresa May famously came on stage dancing to the Abba song Dancing Queen, Honest John could do something similar by coming on stage to songs from his favourite group The Jam. For example the hit Going Underground. The lyrics seem appropriate:
      some people might say my life is in a rut
      I'm quite happy with what I got
      People might say that I should strive for more, but
      I'm so happy I can't see the point

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    2. You really don’t know anything about this song. It is actually a calling for the working class to recognise their collective power against Thatchers Tory government and not about going underground but the absolute opposite……..as in stand up and be counted!!!

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    3. Anon at 4.35. You have to remember that IFS is a complete idiot. His level of comprehension is very low. He frequently posts thinking he is meaning one thing when he is actually saying something quite different. His stupidity is legendary on here.

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    4. Anon @ 5:02, You have to remember not to post a reply to yourself (anon 4:35) in the wee small hours in an attempt to be witty.

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    5. Anon at 4.35am - Of course I know what the song is about. The stupid thing is you just jumping to the conclusion, with no evidence to back it up, that I don't. The title of the song is going underground but just where do I say in my post that is what the song is about - nowhere. Read my post again ya numpty. You should have gone to your bed.

      Same goes for the troll at 5.02am who is probably the same person as 4.35am. Get some sleep and you will think better and hopefully not post your usual troll rubbish.

      I note that the anon troll has nothing to say about a plan for independence. They are not interested in independence. They are Britnats running scared of a de facto referendum.

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    6. 4.35am says “ as in stand up and be counted”. Well it would be nice if Swinney did stand up and be counted and do something to get Scottish independence. Saying independence is within reach is not a plan. It just makes him sound like Skier who has been saying independence is just about to happen for about 8 years now.

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    7. IFS you truly are not a a fan of music. You probably take the opposite meaning from every Clash song or Woody Guthrie Song or even early Bob Dylan songs. Do not try to lecture me on music, also don’t bother replying , to quote another song
      Your words are useless
      Full of excuses
      False confidence
      Someone has used you well”


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    8. Anon at 2.18pm another example of no. 8 on my list of slithering troll attributes. I mean how can some anon say that he knows that I am " not a fan of music". So I have to say this troll also exhibits no. 9 as well. In fact I'll have to add no. 11 to my list - authoritarian tendencies as in telling you to go away, don't reply , be quiet, shut up etc etc.
      So anon at 2.18pm manages no. 8, 9 and 11 in his short post.

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    9. Anon @2:18, "Don't bother replying". In other words, I have no counter argument to offer so leave me alone in my stupidity.😁

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    10. Anon at 2.18. Please be gentle with Idiot for Scotland. He has issues with comprehension and basic literacy.

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    11. Says the troll @4.54pm who can only post abusive short sentences.

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    12. IFS at 5.51. You didn’t think that two line post through would did you? Silly billy.

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    13. David Francis, the slimy Britnat troll at 9.38pm is clearly on the booze again. He is seeing me everywhere through his drunken stupor. It's not a two line post you drunk. Seeing double are you. This drunk cannae even put a simple sentence together.

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  6. Is 'within reach' more precise than 'soon'? Asking for a Unionist friend.

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  7. I just doubt if the current leadership of the SNP, or any likely combination of the existing 'great and good' in the party, has the drive and ambition for a serious attempt an independence.
    I suppose that a road to Damascus moment is theoretically possible but presently the laborious fight to change the party at a molecular level through pressing forward of proindependence debates seems to me the better way.
    It promises to be slow, demanding and a road with many potholes but it has begun - and on an at least partially organised basis.

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  8. I advocate Independence for Scotland. The troll that is David Francis disnae like that so he trolls me. HE cannae even say the words Independence for Scotland as he is a Britnat.

    De facto referendum has the Britnats running scared and that's why Swinney ignores it.

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    Replies
    1. Troll ? High time ye looked at a mirror.

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    2. David at 11.34am - I look in the mirror every morning when shaving and I see an independence supporter. You on the other hand will see an ignorant abusive Britnat troll.

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    3. I look at a mirror every morning. How narcissistic. Still a hospital ward must be boring.

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    4. David Francis at 12.11pm - do you really need to confess your problems on SGP. Do it in private with a specialist.

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  9. If John Swinney moved heaven and earth to make independence happen, the usual suspects on this site and the pages of the national would complain it's not enough heaven and earth moving
    If doesn't matter what the SNP say or do the same people will complain about it then offer their usual complaints that we all see daily
    Let's face it none of these complainers actually want independence, that not why they complain so much, they're doing their British masters job for them
    Isn't that right Independence for your very own big mouth? keep spreading the doom boy

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    Replies
    1. Well Dr Jim at 11.22am you used to say the same about Sturgeon for years. What has she delivered - a book to make herself money and a husband being prosecuted for embezzlement. Oh and let's mention Murray Foote arch Britnat being Chief Exec of the SNP. Who will be next Liz Truss!!!!!!!

      Swinney moving heaven and earth for independence - 🤣🤣🤣🤣.
      People like you Jimbo really do live in a weird fantasy world.

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    2. She did more than you ever did. Back to looking in the mirror for you.

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    3. Anon troll at 12.12pm - Sturgeon did more to waste great opportunities for independence. Now numpty what is the SNP plan for independence?

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    4. 11.22 'if he moved heaven...' yes but he hasn't. He hasn't lifted a finger, none of them have moved their ass to do anything about independence. Eleven years now. Four of the worst ever PMs in WM. Massive votes to achieve the so-called mandate, several times. Not a finger, not a flipping finger.

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    5. Devo max man Salmond lost after Cameron gave him a free shot, get over it

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    6. Salmond threw independence away

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    7. Don’t worry Tasmina and ifs will deliver.

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    8. Anon at 2.57pm is a perfect example of no. 8 in my list of the attributes of the slithering trolls who inhabit SGP.

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    9. Yet Dr Jim at 2.26 and 2.27pm everyone knows that Sturgeon was in control of the day to day independence activities and was a co signatory to the Edinburgh Agreement. Apart from that your SNP said on its website that the referendum was all Nicola Sturgeon's work. Salmond wisnae mentioned at all.

      Dr Jim exhibits 1, 8,9,10 on my list.

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    10. Salmond didn't lose, it was a referendum and the people of Scotland voted against it. As to Devo max, you obviously don't understand what that was about. And by the way, Sturgeon, Swinney and all the rest of them were part of that. Sturgeon in particular always lays claim to being the mastermind of the referendum. She wasn't. There wasn't a mastermind, just an agreement.

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    11. 12.12pm - ach I'm awfy sorry. I forgot to mention that Sturgeon pardoned witches.

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    12. Anon troll at 2.57pm - the best than can be said about your teeny weeny post is that it is gibberish written by someone who is intellectually challenged.

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    13. IFS is a perfect example of no. 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 8 in my list of the attributes of the slithering trolls who inhabit SGP.

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    14. Anon troll at 7.28pm - your post is meaningless if you do not specify what numbers 1 to 8 represent. You are either a lazy troll or you are thick as a brick. I think you are just thick.

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  10. Part of the problem with WOS is that he thinks every can be explained in terms of rational choice theory. So for him it's the numbers that count and not political judgemnt. Having said that in the case of May's soft Brexit, May might well have gone for it. parliament was a shambles may knew she was doomed if her plan did not go through and Johnson was sniping on the sideline so it might've been last throw of the dice. Or, given that she had made so many disastrous political judgments why expect her to suddenly make a sensible one?

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    Replies
    1. No, she wouldn't have gone for it, for the reasons I set out above, and umpteen times in the past. It's not just the fact she was a conviction politician - she simply couldn't have carried her own backbenchers for such a deal. By signing the deal, she would automatically have lost more votes for her soft Brexit than she would have won. There was never a deal to be done - it was just a Stew fantasy.

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  11. Time to summarise the trolls that slither about SGP.

    1. They have no plan for independence.
    2. They hate even saying Independence for Scotland.
    3. They suggest they are SNP members but provide no proof of that fact.
    4. They support each of the SNP devolutionist leaders of the last 11 years. Including Swinney who is on record on TV saying he urged Sturgeon NOT to have Indyref2.
    5. They supported the arch Britnat Murray Foote to be SNP Chief Exec.
    6. They support the ex SNP Chief Exec Murrell even though he lied about SNP membership numbers and is being prosecuted for embezzlement.
    7. They turn a blind eye to the missing ring fenced monies raised for Indyref2.
    8. They just make up stuff that has no basis in reality. They are liars.
    9. They are stupid.
    10. They worship Sturgeon because she wasted multiple mandates for a referendum.

    Whether or not they are members of the SNP a logical conclusion is that they are Britnats.

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    Replies
    1. Whatever you and others think of Nicola Sturgeon, nobody can deny she was a great leader.
      What would we give for somebody with her leadership qualities right now?

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    2. Addition to the list.

      11. They display strong authoritarian and anti free speech tendencies bordering on people who would love to live in a police state.

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    3. The simpleton has come down from the mount with his proclamation. This would be delicious satire if he wasn’t being serious. This has to rank as the dumbest post ever by Idiot for Scotland. And that’s an achievement, of sorts. He does, unintentionally but precisely describe himself in numbers 8 and 9. Oops. Perhaps he can outline the steps to be taken to achieve Independence once the de facto referendum he keeps proposing has been won. Waiting.

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    4. Go to an evening class and learn grammar and punctuation. Spoiler alert. Your posts will still be nonsense.

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    5. Anon at 3.29pm I agree she was a great leader for Westminster. She wasted numerous mandates for Indyref2 and then resigned in disgrace to write a book about how she achieved nothing after 10 years in power. She lost 75,000 members as well as £600k of ring fenced money. Not to mention a husband who is a proven liar.
      She tried to destroy Scotland's desire for independence but instead reduced the SNP to a low 30% vote share. Pretty much back to the levels before the Indyref2.

      Anon at 3.29pm - you must be a Britnat or you are thick as a brick.

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    6. Anon 3.29 To be honest, I'd rather have someone with Salmond's qualities. His leadership was inspirational boosting independence support from high 20's to (at one point) just over 50 pc and resting on 45. Sturgeon missed the boat on the number of opportunities she had to press for independence. I have no doubt that before she became leader she was an independence zealot, she really wanted our nation free. Something happened when she took over, honest engagement became spin, political aims became subsumed by public image (party and person) and expertise and competence of ministerial appointees became secondary to loyalty and friendship. We missed a big chance over the last ten years and in the end (never mind all the financial problems and the Salmond stuff) she had run out of steam - as has the party.

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    7. WT - delusional. Stop the blame game. Salmond chose to step down and chose to hand over to Nicola Sturgeon. Was he right or wrong? Personally the simple fact was ALL of us were down after the result as for (never mind all the financial problems and the Salmond stuff) wish we could.

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    8. Actually, you're wrong. Salmond did not hand over to Nicola Sturgeon, when asked if he was doing so he replied that there were many talented people who could take over the party and lead it. I remember this because I was disappointed that he did not endorse Nicola. However, there's no blame game in my post just facts. The PMs we endured over her reign were at best hapless, at one point we had polls at 56pc for yes - still no movement. Then there was Brexit, the fundamental change in circumstances that we were told by the party would trigger the right to a referendum, then nothing. Don't forget, the defacto idea was hers then she resigned before it happened. We had so many starting guns firing (usually around election times) - we had 'make a note in your diary' alerts from her and the party. There has been no progress on independence and so many false promises that blame is a correct and reasonable response, but not from me, just facts.

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    9. David Francis at 5.19pm has outed himself as a Britnat who does not want a referendum. The slimy snake of a troll has all 1 to 11 of the attributes.

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    10. WT 8.07pm these people do not like to read facts. They prefer their weird fantasy world where none of it happened. They have probably removed from their memories Blackford's regular promise that Scotland will not be taken out of the EU against its will.

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  12. Could you repeat that?

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    Replies
    1. Ok anon at 4.37pm but just this once.

      David Francis at 5.19pm has outed himself as a Britnat who does not want a referendum. The slimy snake of a troll has all 1 to 11 of the attributes.

      Delete
  13. All hail the dead Salmond society
    Are you all gonnae get together and have a seance to raise devo max man again

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    1. Have you got a problem with Devo max and full fiscal autonomy? if you recall Nicola Sturgeon supported that too. And for the same reason as Alex Salmond.

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    2. I have always know Dr Jim at 9.05pm is a low life. He hates the English, even his own family members who are English. He boasts that he has assaulted many women. His posts on WGD are regularly full of thoughts of violence to various people. Now he has added mocking a dead person. Why do people like Jimbo and the slithering cowardly troll David Francis actually think their behaviour encourages people to vote SNP never mind join the SNP. No decent person would want to spend a second in their company.

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  14. Still waiting for IFS to outline his Independence strategy after winning the de facto referendum vote. He is silent on this. He is clueless.

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    1. What’s the SNP plan then for independence - do nothing and hope Westminster grants us independence out of the kindness of their hearts. Has IFS ever said he is the vehicle for independence - no. So 9.34 you are making a fool of yourself.

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    2. David Francis the Britnat slimy troll at 9. 34pm. I gave you my answer at 7.13pm . Still waiting for YOUR reply.

      Is David Francis really just KC?

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    3. You didn’t give an answer. You tried to avoid admitting that you are clueless and have no plan for Independence, despite consistently claiming to the contrary. Sums you up. Idiot, clueless, and a liar. Same approach to Indy as you had to N S. You make things up, talk rubbish, betray your own ignorance and stupidity, and then astonishingly, double down. I am not a politician but I know exactly what would need to be done post de facto referendum. It’s a long and complex process with no guarantee of success. And no I am not spending the considerable period of time it would take to try to explain it to you. You are incapable of understanding in any event. So here we have Idiot for Scotland, the most prolific poster on a pro Indy site, not a member of any Indy party, never staffed a stall or knocked a door, does absolutely nothing to promote Indy, and devotes his time to trying to discredit and talk down the only political party in a position to achieve Indy. But yeah he believes strongly in Indy. Sad wee troll. Go back to WOS. They really are your kind of people.

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    4. Not seen KC on here for a good bit. Hopefully he’s pissed off.

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    5. Alurker above at 10.59pm showed that you are the liar 8.06am. It’s also laughable that you diss IFS for not saying what happens after a de facto yes win and you say you know what you do but you are not saying. Why are you asking IFS if you know the answer. You really are a clown.

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    6. David Francis the Britnat you can post all the lies you want but it disnae make them true. You got my answer at 7.13pm. I also see alurker called you out about your lies re " I set PAB right" .
      You are a compulsive liar David Francis and a seriously disturbed unpleasant person.

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  15. Anon at 10.34. Read this slowly. IFS has consistently claimed he has a plan for Independence. I am asking him to tell us all what is involved in his plan. He cannot do so. Why is that? It’s because he has no plan. Off you go.

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    1. 10.35am - you were asked what the SNP plan is at 10.34pm - no reply - so you and the SNP are no better than IFS. The difference is that it is the SNP’s job to have a plan. So take your rude “ off you go “ and shove it you horrible person.

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