tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post4462400489955413218..comments2024-03-28T15:09:16.383+00:00Comments on SCOT goes POP!: 1-0 to Sturgeon on the EUJames Kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-48703987989681331482014-11-01T12:10:33.269+00:002014-11-01T12:10:33.269+00:00A double-majority could lead to significant anger ...A double-majority could lead to significant anger among English voters who will feel their vote in an EU referendum is "worth" less than the Celtic Fringe. The people of England already feel disadvantaged by the union (this feeling is in some respects justified and in some respects not)<br /><br /> Under such a scenario, even if everyone in England, Scotland and Wales voted to leave the EU, a 50% + 1 majority for staying in in Northern Ireland (pop: 2 million) would override the wishes of everyone else.<br /><br />We may be, officially, 4 equal nations. But we are also all, officially equal, citizens of the UK. In a UK-wide referendum that will result in the entire UK either staying in or leaving the EU, it makes more sense to me that the principle of one man, one vote applies if we are to be truly equal. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-72293562967014595982014-11-01T09:39:40.135+00:002014-11-01T09:39:40.135+00:00I presume cameron et al will be looking for an eu ...I presume cameron et al will be looking for an eu wide referendum on the uk staying in/out in that case?<br /><br />No? Thought not.chalksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-57384875327784224262014-11-01T07:34:03.471+00:002014-11-01T07:34:03.471+00:00We also operate a double majority system here in A...We also operate a double majority system here in Australia. In order for a referendum to be successfully carried it not only must it be approved by a majority of voters, it must also have the backing of at least four out of the six states. That's why only a handful of referenda have been successful. (The 1999 referendum on the Monarchy being an obvious exception!)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09607318279812926091noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-73186116119019081552014-11-01T00:59:44.444+00:002014-11-01T00:59:44.444+00:00Clearly some No voters fell for Brown and the Home...Clearly some No voters fell for Brown and the Home Rule more powers mantra. The MSM did have an effect.<br />BBC still calling debates Prime Ministerial is bizarre as Michael Crick explained, it was merely a technique to stop the SNP being involved. Now UKIP with 1 MP and no representation in Scotland save a Euro councillor are in the fact SNP are heading for 40 plus seats means there is no excuse.<br />The problem is that labour need the "wasted vote" line to scare people into voting against Tories, yet having been let down by them and seen them patting each other on the back the situation now is finally the working class realise Labour will do nothing for them and are similar on some key policies to Tories, or at least not different enough to vote negatively against Tories for labour rather than voting positively for SNP.<br />If BBC want to have a PM debate between Cameron and Miliband fair enough; but the other debates decide who else will get seats and at this stage bookies would suggest UKIP and LIbs combined may have less than the SNP on their own.<br />As we are in UK and "equal", their term, then whether all seats are in one part of UK should not be a factor. No Tories in Scotland did not stop Tory conferences both Scottish and UK being beamed into Scottish households in the 90's.No UKIP MP will not stop UKIP being beamed into Scottish homes whilst SNP are ignored. That is farcical and requires legal action. <br />Solution is just to broadcast English subject debates on health and education etc into England and have a UK subject matter debate including SNP for defence etc. <br />At present BBC and ITV do not differentiate, avoiding the whole question of devolved matters by talking about English matters only on a pan-UK broadcast. That should be illegal at election time as of now, or if they insist on broadcasting about another country's policies into Scotland then stating in captions this relates to England and/or Wales only where applicable as the minimal requirement to its Scottish audience..<br />That legitimacy would of course add votes to the SNP overnight so will be avoided at all costs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-12336562599419642612014-10-31T23:59:54.975+00:002014-10-31T23:59:54.975+00:00@WeSaidNoToYesMen 10.22pm
"So, if we have an...@WeSaidNoToYesMen 10.22pm<br /><br />"So, if we have another referendum it should be on condition that all parts of Scotland that vote to leave"<br /><br />Perhaps you ought to learn how to read and write before you post comments.Natashanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-56821471911426782272014-10-31T22:22:55.686+00:002014-10-31T22:22:55.686+00:00I have no regrets
And I believe the irony of lego...I have no regrets<br /><br />And I believe the irony of lego-head is in her saying a simple majority isn't enough for the uk to leave the eu, but it would have been enough for scotland to leave the uk.<br /><br />So, if we have another referendum it should be on condition that all parts of scotland that vote to leave<br /><br />capisce, losers? :-)WeSaidNoToYesMennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-3574777313728525272014-10-31T20:10:01.869+00:002014-10-31T20:10:01.869+00:00Various rumours about polls asking if No voters ha...Various rumours about polls asking if No voters have regrets. Might be interesting to hear the results of these.Rolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17849975010197698907noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-6764538305740151702014-10-31T19:16:29.450+00:002014-10-31T19:16:29.450+00:00Were the replay of an indy ref figures not much lo...Were the replay of an indy ref figures not much lower during it? I recall a poll being done about it before ballot day.<br /><br />Would suggest as we all suspect that the floating no voters atemt happy....chalksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-11123521658630343042014-10-31T18:38:41.382+00:002014-10-31T18:38:41.382+00:00I think the whole 45 thing allows Westminster and ... I think the whole 45 thing allows Westminster and its followers to ignore those of the 55 who only did so in the hope or belief that Westminster would make good on it's vague promises of something better. If there really are 2/3 in favour of a revote sooner rather than later it's the 66 they need to worry about.<br />Iain McCordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04114399330514686626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-55988957334908495862014-10-31T18:37:16.049+00:002014-10-31T18:37:16.049+00:00I am interested to note that the analysis of the p...I am interested to note that the analysis of the poll results (on news bulletins, at least) is paying no heed to the fact that some of the scare stories use to push for a No vote (banks removing jobs being one example) have happened in rapid order anyway. This may well have a role to play in explaining what some people are now saying regarding voting intentions, but is being stuideously ignored by analysts on TV as far as I have seen.Johnnynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-44442379912303751362014-10-31T18:21:51.905+00:002014-10-31T18:21:51.905+00:00James : But nobody is arguing for that equivalence...James : But nobody is arguing for that equivalence, and it would be absurd to do so. The Yes campaign didn't say "Scotland is a federation or near-federation of 32 local authorities". It was the No campaign that argued that post-No Britain would be a near-federation of four equal nations. As we keep saying to them : Words Have Meanings.James Kellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-81438390282391576372014-10-31T18:11:47.759+00:002014-10-31T18:11:47.759+00:00I can understand that Sturgeon is bidding high by ...I can understand that Sturgeon is bidding high by demanding a veto for each nation, but I think that would go to far. I think needing a consensus across the sub-divisions of a state is important to act as a double-majority. For example constitutional changes in the US have to be ratified by 3/4 of all states. It means that you need more than bare support (50%+1), but it also means that one difficult place can't block the whole proposal.<br /><br />If people are demanding consistency between this proposal and any future Scottish independence referendum, a similar analogy would be that a certain percentage (say 2/3) of local authorities would have to vote in favour, as well as the total being above 50%. I think the argument for saying that just having 50% +1 would have been a weak basis for creating an independent state had some legitimacy.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-19868649283682446462014-10-31T17:59:05.401+00:002014-10-31T17:59:05.401+00:00Point being these are the jawdropping numbers a me...Point being these are the jawdropping numbers a mere month or so after the first Indyref.<br /><br />The out of touch westminster twits have excelled themselves and made their posturing rhetoric about there never being another Indyref look spectacularly foolish.<br /><br />Give them another six months to keep fucking up and we'll see just how bad things can get for them. <br />Mick Porknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-41909790865100729762014-10-31T17:54:42.411+00:002014-10-31T17:54:42.411+00:00Support for having the first referendum was around...Support for having the first referendum was around 80%. <br /><br />YouGov asked a similar, but leading, question in May 2011:<br /><br />http://cdn.yougov.com/today_uk_import/yg-archives-pol-sun-scotindp-scotlanmd-120511.pdf (question 4)<br /><br />It found 67% support for a referendum with only Scots residents voting (which is what happened). The question was very leading, trying to elicit a response objecting to excluding expat Scots. The actual opposition to having any referendum was only about 19% (i.e. Tories).Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-49701486369330355712014-10-31T17:53:42.939+00:002014-10-31T17:53:42.939+00:00There was a lot of non-sense and scare scare stori...There was a lot of non-sense and scare scare stories put about during the Scottish Referendum, but one of the biggest was "uncertainty". In particular, the uncertainty about Scotlands membership, or at least automatic membership, of the EU. If membership was conceded as anything ranging from inevitable through to danm near certain the bogey man of the terms was raised and so of course we were subjected to a fall-back position about uncertainty about the terms of membership. I believe that a small but ultimately signficant number of people were persuaded to vote "no", for no other reason than the possibility that Scotland could find itself excluded from the EU on some legal/techincal issue or that of some pretext occassioned by the domestic politics of an existing member ( rUK, Spain ....etc etc).<br />What had the policy positions of UKIP or the BNP have to do with how Scots voted in the referendum? I doubt if 1 in 10,000 voters knew or cared, I doubt if 1 in 100,000 were in anyway influenced. jakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-38520804341131346152014-10-31T17:47:28.054+00:002014-10-31T17:47:28.054+00:00I don't have the exact figures to hand, but th...I don't have the exact figures to hand, but there was always overwhelming support for a referendum - Alex Salmond made that point repeatedly when the unionist parties thwarted a referendum in the 2007-11 parliament.James Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-55055423921861011982014-10-31T17:43:25.579+00:002014-10-31T17:43:25.579+00:00Would be very interested to know the answer to Cha...Would be very interested to know the answer to Chalks' question.Johnnynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-86049655399223294282014-10-31T17:01:03.246+00:002014-10-31T17:01:03.246+00:00"strikes me that we voted 55/45 in favour of ...<i>"strikes me that we voted 55/45 in favour of being part of something...GB, UK, EU whatever"</i><br /><br />Is that some sort of spoof comment? If not, how do you explain the fact that UKIP and the BNP were both campaigning for a No vote? The percentage of pro-independence campaigners who want to leave the EU was tiny by comparison.James Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-5612341183242450872014-10-31T16:50:48.508+00:002014-10-31T16:50:48.508+00:00Jesus Christ.
What were the numbers in 2011 that...Jesus Christ. <br /><br />What were the numbers in 2011 that wanted a referendum?chalksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-2552399047128173102014-10-31T16:48:22.781+00:002014-10-31T16:48:22.781+00:00strikes me that we voted 55/45 in favour of being ... strikes me that we voted 55/45 in favour of being part of something...GB, UK, EU whatever...and if we Scots are anything we're definately not separatists; it's not a case of stop the world I want to get off , it's more a case of we want to get on.jakenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-48224966898471642042014-10-31T16:23:03.446+00:002014-10-31T16:23:03.446+00:00FPT - since it has direct bearing on the whole pat...FPT - since it has direct bearing on the whole patronising 'why don't they just shut up now' attitude from the westminster bubble unionist media.<br /><br /><br />The good news just keeps right on coming for little Ed and the out of touch westminster bubble twits.<br /><br /><br /><b>STV poll: Two thirds of Scots support second referendum within ten years</b><br /><br />Two thirds of Scots would support another independence referendum within the next ten years, according to a STV News poll.<br /><br />Of those asked by Ipsos Mori, 66% said they would support the vote taking place in the next decade regardless of circumstances.<br /><br />Just 31% would oppose a referendum in the next ten years.<br /><br />http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/297867-stv-poll-third-of-scots-support-second-referendum-within-ten-years/<br /><br /><b>Eggpocalypse Now! </b>:-DMick Porknoreply@blogger.com