tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post2019880859280276331..comments2024-03-29T15:07:44.290+00:00Comments on SCOT goes POP!: Joan Bakewell's false choice on life extensionJames Kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-74555459753981686802010-12-08T20:12:21.341+00:002010-12-08T20:12:21.341+00:00Thanks for your response, James.
As you may well ...Thanks for your response, James.<br /><br />As you may well know most people fund their arrangements by life insurance which is relatively cheap for those younger and in good health.<br /><br />The Cryonics Institute basic cost can be as low as US$28,000 (not exactly a king's ransom), although there are also significant transport etc. costs for UK citizens to the USA.<br /><br />As for the world one wakes up to, I guess I am an example of an extreme optimist-perhaps that is why I support the SNP :-)Tom Robinsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-40035483232323284122010-12-08T18:08:54.961+00:002010-12-08T18:08:54.961+00:00Hi Tom, thanks for your comments, and I take on bo...Hi Tom, thanks for your comments, and I take on board what you say. I think what I meant by "gamble" was a couple of things - firstly that it's a hell of a financial investment for something that may well not work, and secondly there's no way of knowing what kind of existence you'll be waking up to. It may be a deeply unpleasant one, and I think that does constitute a severe element of risk.James Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-23915669527437680792010-12-08T10:01:53.007+00:002010-12-08T10:01:53.007+00:00I HAVE REMOVED THE REFERNCES TO SUPPORTING EXPERIM...I HAVE REMOVED THE REFERNCES TO SUPPORTING EXPERIMENTS AND SCIENTIFIC PAPERS BECAUSE OF THE RESTRICTION AS TO LENGTH AND A NUMBER OF SIGNATORIES<br /><br />Scientists Open Letter on Cryonics<br /><br />To whom it may concern, <br /><br />Cryonics is a legitimate science-based endeavor that seeks to preserve human beings, especially the human brain, by the best technology available. Future technologies for resuscitation can be envisioned that involve molecular repair by nanomedicine, highly advanced computation, detailed control of cell growth, and tissue regeneration. <br /><br />With a view toward these developments, there is a credible possibility that cryonics performed under the best conditions achievable today can preserve sufficient neurological information to permit eventual restoration of a person to full health. <br /><br />The rights of people who choose cryonics are important, and should be respected.<br /><br />Sincerely (61 Signatories)<br /><br /><br />Signatories encompass all disciplines relevant to cryonics, including Biology, Cryobiology, Neuroscience, Physical Science, Nanotechnology and Computing, Ethics and Theology. [Signature date in brackets]<br /><br />Gregory Benford, Ph.D. <br />(Physics, UC San Diego) Professor of Physics; University of California; Irvine, CA [3/24/04] <br />Alaxander Bolonkin, Ph.D. <br />(Leningrad Politechnic University) Professor, Moscow Aviation Institute; Senior Research Associate NASA Dryden Flight Research Center; Lecturer, New Jersey Institute of Technology, Newark, NJ [3/24/04] <br />Nick Bostrom, Ph.D.<br />Research Fellow; University of Oxford; Oxford, United Kingdom [3/25/04] <br />Kevin Q. Brown, Ph.D. <br />(Computer Science, Carnegie-Mellon) Member of Technical Staff; Lucent Bell Laboratories (retired); Stanhope, NJ [3/23/04] <br />Professor Manfred Clynes, Ph.D.<br />Lombardi Cancer Center; Department of Oncology and Department of Physiology and Biophysics, Georgetown University; Washington, DC [3/28/04] <br />L. Stephen Coles, M.D., PhD<br />(RPI, Columbia, Carnegie Mellon University) Director, Supercentenarian Research Foundation Inglewood, California [10/7/06] <br />Daniel Crevier, Ph.D.<br />(MIT) President, Ophthalmos Systems Inc., Longueuil, Qc, Canada; Professor of Electrical Engineering (ret.), McGill University & École de Technologie Supérieure, Montreal, Canada. [4/7/05] <br />Antonei B. Csoka, Ph.D.<br />Assistant Professor of Obstetrics, Gynecology and Reproductive Sciences, University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine Pittsburgh Development Center, Magee-Womens Research Institute [9/14/05] <br />Aubrey D.N.J. de Grey, Ph.D.<br />Research Associate; University of Cambridge;Cambridge, United Kingdom [3/19/04] <br />Wesley M. Du Charme, Ph.D. <br />(Experimental Psychology, University of Michigan) author of Becoming Immortal, Rathdrum, Idaho [11/23/05] <br />João Pedro de Magalhães, Ph.D.<br />University of Namur; Namur, Belgium [3/22/04] <br />Thomas Donaldson, Ph.D.<br />Editor, Periastron; Founder, Institute for Neural Cryobiology; Canberra, Australia [3/22/04] <br />Christopher J. Dougherty, Ph.D. <br />Chief Scientist; Suspended Animation Inc; Boca Raton, FL [3/19/04] <br />K. Eric Drexler, Ph.D. <br />Chairman of Foresight Institute; Palo Alto, CA [3/19/04] <br />Robert A. Freitas Jr., J.D.<br />Author, Nanomedicine Vols. I & II; Research Fellow, Institute for Molecular Manufacturing, Palo Alto, CA [3/27/04] <br />Mark Galecki, Ph.D.<br />(Mathematics, Univ of Tennessee), M.S. (Computer Science, Rutgers Univ), Senior System Software Engineer, SBS Technologies [11/23/05] <br />D. B. Ghare, Ph.D.<br />Principal Research Scientist, Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore, India [5/24/04] <br />Ben Goertzel, Ph.D. <br />(Mathematics, Temple) Chief Scientific Officer, Biomind LLC; Columbia, MD [3/19/04] <br />Peter Gouras, M.D. <br />Professor of Ophthalmology, Columbia University; New York City, NY [3/19/04] <br />Amara L. Graps, Ph.D.<br />Researcher, Astrophysics; Adjunct Professor of Astronomy; Institute of Physics of the Interplanetary Space; American University of Rome (Italy) [3/22/04]Tom Robinsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-13186471900913508982010-12-08T09:53:56.790+00:002010-12-08T09:53:56.790+00:00As someone who like you, as a supporter of the SNP...As someone who like you, as a supporter of the SNP, occasionally offers positive comments on the Political Betting website, I was pleased to hear that you also share my view about the desirability of anti-ageing efforts.<br /><br />I also share your scepticism about the rapidity with which anti-ageing may advance-although the sooner the better, of course.<br /><br />However, given the normal alternatives, burial or cremation, I find it difficult to agree with your view that cryonics is "... gamble with unattractive odds" as the odds seem to be better than the zero indubitably applicable to burial and cremation.<br /> <br />I copy below an e mail I sent at the weekend to "extroBrittania" which shows that, even in the furtherance (albeit presumably failed) of returning to life, at least one Scot may have been in the forefront :-)<br /><br />"Isn't Joan Bakewell profoundly predictable in her utterances?-what a pity that she seems generally recognised as an advocate<br />for the old-perhaps another sad case of with enemies like these.......<br /> <br />It is often said that no-one on their deathbed ever wishes that they had spent more time at the office.<br />I venture to suggest that few on their deathbed would reject a return to youth and a continuance of life.<br /> <br />I wonder if there is indeed a death meme which has been transmitted genetically down the millennia because it historically<br />helped people to be productive in life. A belief in religion and the inevitability of death followed by reward for the "just"<br />may have made it possible for people to accept death.<br /> <br />I am a blood relative of John Paul (Jones), famous as a US War of Independence hero, and often referred to as the "Father of the American Navy".<br />I am also a member of the Cryonics Institute, and intend to have my body cryonically preserved on death. I had decided this before knowing these<br />points about John Paul Jones:<br /> <br />* He was buried in a lead coffin immersed in alcohol (1792 in Paris)<br /> <br />* He was a friend of Benjamin Franklin and they met regularly in Paris.<br /> <br />* Franklin talked of immersion in alcohol etc as a possible way of preserving life, and it seems likely<br /> that this would have been discussed at evening dinners with Franklin that Jones attended. <br /> <br />* John Paul Jones was unusual for his time (or even now in the USA) in that, even though a prolific writer, he hardly <br />ever referred to God (I know there is no necessary conflict between religion and cryonics but the religious are the least likely to be involved).<br /> <br />* Although comment is made that Jones' body was preserved in case the USA wanted him back, the fact that the action was taken by <br />a Frenchman and not the USA ambassador suggests to me an act of personal friendship rather than an act of state. <br /> <br /> <br />When one considers how few people (as yet) give any consideration at all to cryonics, I do wonder if my own intent is at least partly<br />driven by sharing genes with Jones whose own attempt (if it were such) has presumably failed, after he was disinterred in Paris more than <br />100 years after his burial (his body substantially preserved), and shipped off from Paris to the USA where his remains now rest at the US Naval Academy<br />at Annapolis in a tomb modelled on that of Napoleon.<br /> <br />Given JPJ's visionary view on naval matters and on the future of the USA, I hope that he may have been on the right lines concerning<br />the preservation of his body, even if sadly, I must conclude that he will not return to life because of the Paris disinterment.<br /> <br />Tom"<br /><br />Additionally, perhaps I can persuade you to row back from your position of "wholeheartedly" agreeing with Bakewell about cryonics by pointing out that a group of scientists hold the following view about cryonics: <br /><br />Scientists' Open Letter on Cryonics:<br /><br />SENT AS SECOND COMMENT DUE TO LENGHTH RESTRICTIONSTom Robinsonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-68007406128395100442010-12-07T16:14:44.401+00:002010-12-07T16:14:44.401+00:00Thanks for your comment, Marco. To answer your que...Thanks for your comment, Marco. To answer your question directly, I don't think the likes of Joan Bakewell belong to a "death cult" - it's more a failure of imagination about what may be possible in future (although how far in the future that will be, none of us can tell). She clearly fears that increased longevity would inevitably lead to the period of frailty and isolation that many people suffer in their old age being worsened and massively extended. Nobody in their right mind would want that, least of all the scientists who are working in this field.<br /><br />I must admit, though, that on one narrow point I wholeheartedly agree with Bakewell - I think cryonics is a rather desperate dead end, or at the very least, a gamble with very unattractive odds.James Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-69217547257044698922010-12-07T08:39:11.498+00:002010-12-07T08:39:11.498+00:00Great article James. I couldn't agree more wit...Great article James. I couldn't agree more with everything you said. I really hope medical science figures this one out soon, if not in time for us then at least in time for our kids.<br /><br />What kind of sick death cult do these people at mindfully belong to? Dying from the diseases of aging is not fun. It is a slow and painful way to die. Would they want us to pass by someone bleeding to death in a car accident without calling for help since we wouldn't want that person to contribute to overpopulation? What if that person were dying of Alzheimer's? What if that person was a family member of one of the lovely people over at "mindfully"? If I had the cure, would they want me to refuse to give it to them? Or would they be the first ones knocking at researchers doors when their own lives are in danger<br /><br />Marco Da SilvaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com