tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post8255422651002149346..comments2024-03-29T04:11:41.539+00:00Comments on SCOT goes POP!: Let's not forget the moment during the campaign when the London parties promised "not just Devo Max, but Devo SUPER Max"James Kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-40675157330740978562014-09-24T10:12:19.814+01:002014-09-24T10:12:19.814+01:00http://thebutterflyrebellion.org/2014/09/23/the-sa...http://thebutterflyrebellion.org/2014/09/23/the-sabotage-of-scotlands-democracy/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10418325652418041951noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-55710118914048224562014-09-24T08:16:41.057+01:002014-09-24T08:16:41.057+01:00Flockers, you might recall the sight of Lamont, Re...Flockers, you might recall the sight of Lamont, Rennie and Davidson on Calton Hill promising more powers, you might recall the endless commissions promising more powers.<br /><br />All were done before the vow and helped sway the vote.<br /><br />I would also, point you in the direction of the BT private polling that suggested Yes were on 53% towards the end of the campaign.<br /><br />https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/514444744290992130<br /><br />chalksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-75301132476995148732014-09-23T19:36:44.969+01:002014-09-23T19:36:44.969+01:00Gordon Brown apparently offered “A system of gove...Gordon Brown apparently offered “A system of government as close to federalism as you can have in a nation where one part forms 85% of the population.”<br /><br />There was ample time for Cameron or Miliband to refute that; to make it clear that Gordon Brown spoke for no one except Gordon Brown. <br /><br />They didn't.<br /><br />And, together with the Miliband Cameron "vow", it was a game changer.<br /><br />Now Miliband doesn't want to know because the English want their own devolution (which would leave Labour in the cold) and Cameron has already talked about reducing Scotland's money.<br /><br />Mr Farage of course is prominent in both their "run up to election" minds.<br /><br />No one seems to give a toss what Clegg thinks, says or does. He has even been relieved of his responsibilities for constitutional affairs.<br /><br />What on earth are we paying him for?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-56718554122091587192014-09-23T18:02:22.029+01:002014-09-23T18:02:22.029+01:00So Galloway promised Super Devo Max. Is that bette...So Galloway promised Super Devo Max. Is that better than Home Rule as promised by Broon?Jutemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11061671774494923407noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-60214550897212931242014-09-23T17:54:04.404+01:002014-09-23T17:54:04.404+01:00"Anecdotally, yes was going to win by a lands...<i>"Anecdotally, yes was going to win by a landslide."</i><br /><br />I gather "the vow" was only anecdotal as well. Much like Westminster manifestos?James kellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-61990606721297728342014-09-23T17:44:44.002+01:002014-09-23T17:44:44.002+01:00Now that SLAB are disintegrating before our very e...Now that SLAB are disintegrating before our very eyes, and the SNP are enjoying a resurgence in membership, I would surmise that London and Washington will deem Scotland " an unstable regime" politically, since the last bastion of unionism in Scotland, the labour party, will soon be gone.<br /><br />They will probably conclude that it would be wise to remove the subs together with their associated nuclear ordnance from Scottish territory asap.<br /><br />Be interesting to look out for straws in the wind, methinks..........................Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-55997623853266694462014-09-23T17:16:57.310+01:002014-09-23T17:16:57.310+01:00Anecdotally, yes was going to win by a landslide. ...Anecdotally, yes was going to win by a landslide. Flockersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-53842991013458788722014-09-23T17:11:49.789+01:002014-09-23T17:11:49.789+01:00It seems that there may have been widespread fraud...It seems that there may have been widespread fraud with false ballot papers being handled out at polling stations<br /><br />see what you make of this<br /> https://www.facebook.com/haudyurwheesht/posts/569150163212849Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-13555564444275647512014-09-23T17:06:46.512+01:002014-09-23T17:06:46.512+01:00Anecdotally, the Galloway vow on Devo SUPER Max se...Anecdotally, the Galloway vow on Devo SUPER Max seems to have been decisive, Flockers. I'm afraid there's no point in trying to wriggle free now.James Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-84831200391180959392014-09-23T17:03:45.106+01:002014-09-23T17:03:45.106+01:00Chalks, I am afraid you're entirely wrong. Acc...Chalks, I am afraid you're entirely wrong. According to Ashcroft's poll, only 9% of the 55% of no voters made up their mind in the last week of the campaign (during which the vow was made). In total only 25% of no voters cited the prospect of further powers (combined with the security of remaining in the UK)as their principal reason for voting no.<br /><br />The vow may or may not have made the difference - we will never truly know. But sure as hell no-one believed the crap James is now spouting at the time.<br /><br />Alex Salmond, by the way, has spoken again today about the nature of the powers he hopes will come Scotland's way. He's under no illusion. Impressive as she is, I doubt Sturgeon is under any illusion either.<br /><br />Flockersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-26636287549579776792014-09-23T16:49:32.091+01:002014-09-23T16:49:32.091+01:00I understand James point entirely, the majority of...I understand James point entirely, the majority of the 25% of no voters that voted no, did so based on the belief that it's devo max we are getting.<br /><br />So that's what the SNP and people like myself will campaign for.<br /><br />You made your bed, lie in it.chalksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-15375579289580184702014-09-23T16:44:33.665+01:002014-09-23T16:44:33.665+01:00Chalks - you'd better not let James catch you ...Chalks - you'd better not let James catch you say that!<br /><br />As I said yesterday, you're perfectly entitled to push for more powers in the negotiation (and the vagueness of the vow was a bad mistake, in my view), just not to pretend that if you don't end up with powers that weren't offered, you've somehow been shafted.<br /><br />My serious point today is that people need to move forward and start bringing people together. Vile comments about Andy Murray are totally out of order - he was perfectly entitled to express his view in the manner and timing of his choosing. The same applies to JK Rowling, millionaire lottery winners who donated to yes and, frankly, everyone else who kept within the bounds of law and order.<br /><br />But it is really quite poor of James to use his platform to try to mislead Scots into thinking that the Westminster parties promised them something they did not. Above all, it treats Scots with contempt. And in seeking to forment unjustified anger, it does nothing to help Scotland unite and move forward.Flockjersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-17527842629917243662014-09-23T16:31:03.505+01:002014-09-23T16:31:03.505+01:00"Changed days from when Christina D and Plato...<i>"Changed days from when Christina D and Plato were foaming at the pants because AM touched their flag and mumbled their song."</i><br /><br />Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that! "He's not your poster-boy" is what Plato said, I think...James Kellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-5273663158700586292014-09-23T16:29:22.909+01:002014-09-23T16:29:22.909+01:00"I won't post further on this topic, but ...<i>"I won't post further on this topic, but will let you stew gently in your own absurdity."</i><br /><br />Oh, go on, Flockers. I know you're looking forward to Devo SUPER Max as much as the rest of us.James Kellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-22589897723781531512014-09-23T16:27:43.183+01:002014-09-23T16:27:43.183+01:00There's no point trying to reason with Britnat... There's no point trying to reason with Britnats as you know well.<br /><br /> There's a lovely comment thread on Cif full of the revolting scum attacking Andy Murray for daring to come out for Yes. Wall to wall racism but as the target is Scottish they can say what they like.<br /><br /> Changed days from when Christina D and Plato were foaming at the pants because AM touched their flag and mumbled their song.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-67715130870947563252014-09-23T16:26:25.391+01:002014-09-23T16:26:25.391+01:00I think I made the SNP cool.
Anyway, Flockers, t...I think I made the SNP cool.<br /><br /><br />Anyway, Flockers, the vow was a blank piece of paper, now we're filling it in.<br /><br />Thanks.chalksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-56268174462768610112014-09-23T16:26:10.481+01:002014-09-23T16:26:10.481+01:00I won't post further on this topic, but will l...I won't post further on this topic, but will let you stew gently in your own absurdity.<br /><br />On another note - congratulations to the SNP on their membership drive. On a day when Ed Miliband demonstrated yet again the limitations of top down leadership ("here's your agenda - now get excited!"), the SNP has hinted at a different future for political parties bold enough to decentralise and grasp it.Flockersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-33515470012168040432014-09-23T16:13:48.130+01:002014-09-23T16:13:48.130+01:00Andrew Weir @Andyweir96 7m
Became a member of th...Andrew Weir @Andyweir96 7m<br /><br />Became a member of the SNP before it was cool<br /><br />*chortle*Mick Porknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-37951032610231772302014-09-23T16:12:37.436+01:002014-09-23T16:12:37.436+01:00"The pledge from the London parties was for d...<i>"The pledge from the London parties was for devolution of further, extensive powers"</i><br /><br />Not so - it went much further than that. The London parties' nominated representative, a Mr George Galloway, made clear that Devo SUPER Max would be delivered in the event of a No vote. As you know, Devo Max is a contraction of "devolution maximum", meaning the maximum amount of devolution possible, ie. everything transferred to Holyrood apart from foreign affairs and defence. Mr Galloway's use of the word "SUPER" indicates something over and above that - perhaps powers over nuclear weapons, for example? I must I'm finding the prospect of Devo SUPER Max terrifically exciting, and I suspect you are too.James Kellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-77038450211918645842014-09-23T16:02:29.584+01:002014-09-23T16:02:29.584+01:00James, you're making yourself look more ridicu...James, you're making yourself look more ridiculous with every post. The pledge from the London parties was for devolution of further, extensive powers. Salmond criticised it as being insufficient. In his own concession speech he referred to the offer as being "further meaningful" powers. He was under no illusion, you were under no illusion, and nobody else was under any illusion that the offer was not as all-encompassing as you now suggest.<br /><br />If you think your fellow Scotsmen are stupid enough to believe your new position on this, then truly you treat them with contempt.Flockersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-41735859795239457432014-09-23T15:47:10.662+01:002014-09-23T15:47:10.662+01:00Galloway's vow on behalf of the UK government ...Galloway's vow on behalf of the UK government and the Labour party is on tape - it was broadcast on national television. No correction was issued. Pretending that he did not say it is propaganda of the most cynical kind, and is exactly the sort of thing that is eroding trust in politics. Do the decent thing and get behind the push for the London parties to honour their pledge of a form of devolution that is somehow even greater than the maximum amount of devolution possible.James Kellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-63660812013771312002014-09-23T15:38:32.485+01:002014-09-23T15:38:32.485+01:00James, that's risible. The vow spoke for itsel...James, that's risible. The vow spoke for itself. It was in writing. Nobody - literally nobody - was saying, or believed, or even thought it was remotely possible, that Westminster was offering devolution of all powers bar defence and foreign affairs. It would have been completely illogical. You did not believe that on Thursday night, did you? You don't even believe it now.<br /><br />"Extensive" powers are on offer. It was (stupidly) ill-defined, so there is plenty of scope for legitimate debate, and even genuine fist shaking, over whether what is ultimately offered is suitably extensive. You should keep your powder dry for that debate, rather than burning your credibility by trying to pretend that an intelligent and engaged electorate went to bed on Thursday night believing that the only issues to be resolved were defence and foreign affairs.<br /><br />As I said, it's just bad propaganda.Flockersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-53965322638532928112014-09-23T15:23:23.146+01:002014-09-23T15:23:23.146+01:00Flockers, it's far, far too late now to backtr...Flockers, it's far, far too late now to backtrack on the pledge of Devo SUPER Max from your campaign's representative George Galloway. If you're arguing that he mis-spoke, you had ample time to issue a correction before polling day. You failed to do so. <br /><br />But don't worry - Devo SUPER Max sounds like exactly the sort of constructive settlement that both Yes and No voters can unite behind. You must be thrilled.James Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-6254581256556666642014-09-23T15:02:17.021+01:002014-09-23T15:02:17.021+01:00LOL.
I think the most eloquent response came fro...LOL. <br /><br />I think the most eloquent response came from Alex Salmond: "It's totally inadequate, it's not enough. It's nothing approaching the powers that Scotland needs to create jobs, to save the health service and build a better society". <br /><br />Clearly he was under the impression that nothing like devo super max was being offered.<br /><br />The offer, per the Westminster leaders, was of "extensive new powers". That is what must, and shall, be delivered.<br /><br />Galloway is guilty of using loose language, like lots of people. As I said yesterday, many have used devomax when they mean devoplus, or have used it thinking it means something different to your interpretation. Which is fine. politics is often reduced to soundbites.<br /><br />The fundamental illogicality of your position is that the better together leaders all categorically ruled out a currency union, and yet you seem to suggest they impliedly (through failing to correct newspapers and Galloway's loose language) accepted unlimited borrowing powers for Scotland, backstopped by Westminster, with no controls other than over foreign affairs and defence. You did not believe that was the position on Thursday evening (because it was not). No use pretending it is now. <br /><br />It's just poor quality propaganda, designed to try to continue the regrettably divisive campaign at a time when we should all be moving forward and trying to reach a constructive settlement.Flockersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-58129978612193061572014-09-23T14:34:01.595+01:002014-09-23T14:34:01.595+01:00Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina, where &quo...Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina, where "Super Max" has a rather worrying meaning. It refers to maximum security prisons with even higher levels of security than regular maximum security prisons. The simplest personal liberties and dignities are denied to inmates. The State owns their life, body and soul.<br /><br />Perhaps that is what Gorgeous George meant?Skip_NCnoreply@blogger.com