tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post7455194540284942233..comments2024-03-29T14:41:03.152+00:00Comments on SCOT goes POP!: Well, it burned while I cried, 'cos I heard it screaming out Smith's name, Smith's name...James Kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-47379793573572440962014-12-04T14:04:47.602+00:002014-12-04T14:04:47.602+00:00I know the councillors personally. Nice people an...I know the councillors personally. Nice people and fully dedicated to independence and to helping people in Renfrewshire. Only last month they helped organise a massive collection for the Paisley food bank! That's the defence part!<br /><br />To be honest, it wasn't their smartest moment! A stupid stunt for the cameras. For many of the reasons stated above.<br /><br />I've not spoke to any of them yet, or anyone else involved in the SNP, but I would hope common sense prevails. The proverbial smack on the wrist would be more than enough, IMHO.TheMadMurphhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07139730336235713529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-47876435597802177832014-12-04T13:02:50.933+00:002014-12-04T13:02:50.933+00:00"built to destroy the last authoritative demo...<i>"built to destroy the last authoritative democratic unionist foothold now left in Scotland. "</i><br /><br />For someone talking about hubris and confidence you should perhaps remind yourself that there is going to be a core labour and tory vote regardless of the outcome of 2015 or 2016. We'll do our absolute best to shrink it as much as we can but they are hardly the lib dems yet. That hard core will be far, <i>far</i> harder to erode than the yellow tories were though happily little Ed and Cameron are doing their absolute best to help us out there. But even IF, for once, FPTP ends up helping rather than crippling us it won't change the fact that we still need to win a majority in the next indyref and that means winning over more and ever more scots with our policies and with our actions before then.<br /><br /><i>not revert to the previously ineffective 'one more push' Mick."</i><br /><br />It was never just "one more push". It was pushing for decade after decade and it's going to be pushing for as long as it takes this time because for one thing it WORKED. We got our Indyref. I am however all ears if you have a better way to do it as not only did it work but as far as I can see there is no possiblity of anything else working since there is no magic short-cut to achieving independence. Yeah, pushing can be hard, tiring work, but that's what we've got to do and I for one will keep doing it for as long as I am able. I don't believe we'll have to wait for decade after decade either as westminster, the unionist parties and the unionist media still don't seem to grasp that the scottish public is going to judge them by their actions and judge them more severely than ever now.Mick Porknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-74612737121127401932014-12-04T12:56:25.842+00:002014-12-04T12:56:25.842+00:00"There is a bigger thing on offer at the mome...<i>"There is a bigger thing on offer at the moment in Scotland than Party Politics"</i><br /><br />No, there isn't. There won't be an indyref in 2015 or 2016 and there certainly won't be another Indyref unless the SNP and the Yes parties keep up the enthusiasm and advance policies that the scottish public like and vote for. We learned the hard way that we have to carry public opinion and to do so we have to convince as many scots as possible that we can create a better scotland for everyone <i>and</i> that we have the policies to do so. <br /><br /><i>"Am I so unreasonable to be warning of possible Party Political hubris? "</i><br /><br />A few months out from the Indyref you are. You can't seriously believe the SNP or any of the other Yes parties need to be told that we have hard work ahead or think that we are overconfident because of a few polls. Every meeting I have attended it's been spelled out in blunt terms just how large the majorities in those areas we have to overturn are and just how difficult it's going to be. We weren't the ones who complacently thought that a No vote would put the SNP and the Yes parties 'back in their box' and that it would be back to business as usual for westminster. That would be the unionist parties and media who did that and are quite clearly terrified and distraught that the very opposite has happened.<br /><br /><i>"What we are seeing here in Scotland at the moment is not necessarily the unheard of political phenomenon"</i><br /><br />It is for scotland and the UK. Lest anyone be in any doubt <i>why</i> the unionist parties and media are so terrified they are facing the prospect of campaigns not unlike the Indyref from now on (local,GE,EU.scottish parliament) but with approaching 100,000 SNP members and a greatly increased membership in the other Yes parties as well. That's not hubris, that's just the cold hard facts of the numbers.<br /><br /><i>"To do that we need a little less absolute certain confidence"</i><br /><br />Again, you seem to be confusing a statement of the way things stand as either overconfidence or hubris where I have displayed neither. I'm taking nothing for granted and indeed am doing all I can when I can to keep encouraging and helping the members from either losing heart or interest as are my friends in the SNP and indeed in the other Yes parties. We are under no illusion how difficult it's going to be to keep the colossal number of members involved, engaged and active. (you'd better believe there has been some incredible work done already with the logistics just to cope with the massive influx of new members like finding venues and arranging as many meetings and events as possible while getting as much input form the new members as we can as to their hopes and needs for scotland and the party) We also know the scale of the problem in defeating as many of the unionist party MPs as possible, but there are plans being made right now to make certain we get as many members as possible active and ready to help out where they are needed in other branches too.<br /><br />(cont.)Mick Porknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-16173802408668320832014-12-04T12:53:19.584+00:002014-12-04T12:53:19.584+00:00"I demand Scottish Independence. Not as an id...<i>"I demand Scottish Independence. Not as an ideal to strive for (and then die unfulfilled, as so many have had to) but as a reality in my lifetime!"</i><br /><br />You clearly can't be under the delusion that SNP members don't want independence as a reality since the <i>only</i> reason we had the first Indyref is that the SNP turned it from an impossiblity (so the westminster parties kept telling us) to a reality. As for in your lifetime, as Nicola made crystal clear when the voters want it they will get it. And as she also set out with zero ambiguity the SNP not only continue to believe in Independence but will do all we can to make it happen.<br /><br /><br /><i>I will no longer be patient and play the long game. We are past that point, and if you were as involved in the YES campaign as your posts suggest, you know that too."</i><br /><br />Best drop the <i>if</i> braco as my involvement in campaigning is well known on here and not up for question. Your lack of patience is, I'm afraid, of no consequence whatsoever. It would be nice if I could just snap my fingers and we were independent but it's pure fucking fantasy. I have no idea what you think you can do to hasten Independence buy I assure you that the one thing that has been settled for good is that the SNP have proved to everyone that they can deliver an independence referendum if that is what the scottish public votes for. It's not up for debate how we get independence so it's just a matter if when scots decide we have another referendum. We're barely three months out from the first one so I've some bad news for you if you think there's going to be another one next week or next month. It ain't happening. Nor is there any chance of another Indyref in 2015 or 2016. <br /><br /><i>"I will be judging the SNP on that 45% YES datum (of an 85% turnout) rather than whatever undoubted increase they manage to put on to their current 6 MPs"</i><br /><br />Feel free to judge us how you like but we're going to be REAL busy in the meantime fighting to get as many seats as we can while overturning or slashing some truly gigantic Labour majorities. We'll judge ourselves on how succesfull we are by a combination of the work we put in and the outcomes to advance Independence and a better scotland.<br /><br /><i>"What will you be if they don't Mick? Upset of course, but as loyal as ever? "</i><br /><br />Funny thing braco, nobody has ever raised my "loyalty" to independence after campaigning so hard for the first indyref and they would do well not to dismiss my continuing commitment to that and the party I choose as mere "loyalty" either.<br /><br />(cont.)Mick Porknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-71993522331784910772014-12-03T23:29:51.666+00:002014-12-03T23:29:51.666+00:00Mick,
I am not an SNP member, though I have campai...Mick,<br />I am not an SNP member, though I have campaigned a great deal for it (especially 2007) and respect it as the current torch holder of Scottish Independence. I don't 'sneer', I only observe.<br /><br />My political position is simple. I demand Scottish Independence. Not as an ideal to strive for (and then die unfulfilled, as so many have had to) but as a reality in my lifetime! To start living, with all it's imperfections and compromises. <br /><br />I will no longer be patient and play the long game. We are past that point, and if you were as involved in the YES campaign as your posts suggest, you know that too. The YES movement was not 90 odd thousand activists that have since joined Party politics. It was as much the general interest in Scottish Independence that captured the public imagination and self motivated that unprecidented 85% turnout. Millions (and on both sides).<br /><br />I will be judging the SNP on that 45% YES datum (of an 85% turnout) rather than whatever undoubted increase they manage to put on to their current 6 MPs. I want total Unionist wipe out (as 45% would obviously secure). When the SNP produce this, as I hope they do, I will be as joyous as the next person. What will you be if they don't Mick? Upset of course, but as loyal as ever? <br /><br />There is a bigger thing on offer at the moment in Scotland than Party Politics, but unfortunately it would take the Parties, most importantly the currently highest flying parties, to allow themselves to remain authentically backstage (but obviously still instrumental). Not impossible with 25 thousand members, but how likely now with 70+ thousand new members. Am I so unreasonable to be warning of possible Party Political hubris? <br /><br />After the first referendum defeat in Quebec, Parti Québécois won the greatest % of the vote ever won in any federal Canadian State election (and never matched since). What we are seeing here in Scotland at the moment is not necessarily the unheard of political phenomenon we feel it should be and being told it is. <br /><br />This phenomenon did not lead to Quebec Independence in Canada and it may not lead to Scottish Independence in Scotland. http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/12/03/a-tale-of-two-referendums/<br /><br />We need to add something else to the pot to be sure. To do that we need a little less absolute certain confidence (useful and entertaining during a no holds barred referendum campaign) but very restricting and dangerous to the reformation of any new successful first past the post 'national movement' built to destroy the last authoritative democratic unionist foothold now left in Scotland. <br /><br />We need to pick each muscular finger off that cliff face, not revert to the previously ineffective 'one more push' Mick.<br /><br />braco<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-79377603321388545342014-12-03T22:05:22.859+00:002014-12-03T22:05:22.859+00:00"Not too many of the type of activists that w...<i>"Not too many of the type of activists that would bat an eye lid at these councillors' behaviour (I would think). Much more likely aplaude it!"</i> <br /><br />We'll see. I'll check in with another meeting later this week. (for those who still don't fucking get it these meetings are happening all over scotland and have been since the referendum so the SNP leadership know perfectly well how the various branches feel and think with the deluge of new members) There will be some who cheer them on but I tend to think there will be more than enough who, like me, simply roll their eyes at these misguided, and to be frank, pretty clueless bunch. Precisely how much proof from the Indyref did they need that the unionist media would be all over their stunt and spin it mercilessly to smear the SNP?<br /><br />If they were a <i>touch</i> smarter what they should have done was invite the press journos to a 'burning', show the assembled hacks the Smith Commission report, then for their stunt take a big black Pen and score out Smith and write in the word Calman. Then, should the assembled westminster bubble hacks still fail to get the point, (a racing certainty) produce the weighty Leveson report, thunk it on a table, pour some lighter fluid over it and then invite the hacks to burn it at their leisure. Even the westminster bubble idiots would begin to finally 'get it' by then. ;-)<br /><br />Of course it would have been far simpler and more effective not to have a stunt at all since the only way to combat the relentless unionist media spin is with clear simple and factual information about Smith and THE VOW on the doorseps and face to face. Something that <i>will</i> be happening as the campaigning is going to start again in earnest in the new year for 2015.<br /><br /><i>"Next we will be having protests outside the BBC again. The BBC for God's sake!"</i><br /><br />Protest over the manifestly unfair TV tax or protests against the BBC's involvement with Jimmy Saville and several other high profile abusers?<br /><br />The BBC are on borrowed time braco because one thing I have found from almost every single new member is utter disgust at their blatantly obvious bias and arrogance. Abolishing the TV Tax is already being seriously looked at by the westminstner parties (obviously not because it would be the fair thing to do but because of the massive savings and tempting voters with a slashed price BBC subscription fee as an election 'giveaway' at some point) <br /><br />There certainly won't be much giggling or sneering considering just how massive the trust gap is already from the scottish public in the unionist media with a whopping 45% of a truly gigantic turnout not falling for their lies and spin. Plummeting circulations and falling viewerships will speak far louder than a thousand small pointless stunts.<br /><br />We <i>WILL</i> be having some very high profile campaign events soon enough and even the likes of the BBC and the westmisnter bubble press will not be able to ignore them or so easily use them to smear the SNP and the Yes parties.Mick Porknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-81913350962146843182014-12-03T22:02:36.646+00:002014-12-03T22:02:36.646+00:00"News Flash! Those members mostly joined out ...<i>"News Flash! Those members mostly joined out of frustration at the apparent disbanding of the 'YES movement' by the centralist YES Scotland HQ (without even bothering to consult the grassroots movement they were supposed to represent and speak for)!"</i><br /><br /><br />I know these new members and have attended many meetings in the branches in the west of scotland. (used to be solid Labour heartlands, not any more though! :-) ) Not one has ever told me they joined out of frustration of the disbanding of the Yes movement. They are most certainly frustrated with the westminster political class and their London branch offices and they want a better scotland for their families, friends and themselves. But anger or frustration at the Yes campaign? Nope. Some lessons to be learned and yes, some harsh words for a few of the less effective parts of the campaign, but the real anger is at the unionist parties and the unionist media. Rightly so.<br /><br />The reason we have such a colossal number of members now is actually very simple. We enthused and motivated a truly massive number of voters who were disillusioned with westminster politics as usual and who wanted a better scotland. The unprecedented grass-roots campaign resulted in an astonishing turnout. So you should drop your sneering over Nicola since she was central to that campaign and spoke <i>TO</i> scots at packed out meetings up and down scotland for years while the Eggman was shouting as passers by with three men and a dug looking on. <br /><br /><i>"Those new members wanted to carry the fight on (even if that required getting involved in Party Politics."</i><br /><br />Certainly that has far more truth to it than some supposed frustration at a YES movement who pretty fucking obviously had to change and readjust to the loss of the first referendum. I've a NEWSFLASH for you braco, they were DEEPLY involved in party politics during the Indyref. How could it be otherwise? Yes and No were represented by parties and the policies and different visions for scotland were self-evidently based on differing political stances. That's why all the Yes parties saw their memberships rocket and the SNP in particular. It's hardly a huge adjustment to then fight on under a party banner when it's the policies of the Yes parties that turned you on to politics in the first place. That's not to say those who don't want to join a party or support one can't be involved but they will self-evidently have almost no influence in 2015 and 2016 if they don't. Support Yes parties by all means but you still need to vote for one of them or what exactly is the point?<br /><br />(cont.)Mick Porknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-52960836563040627812014-12-03T21:08:13.745+00:002014-12-03T21:08:13.745+00:00And our job is to open eyes to it, not pander and ...And our job is to open eyes to it, not pander and cower to it. That's 90% of it's power.<br /><br />bracoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-33292093971334749082014-12-03T20:42:42.490+00:002014-12-03T20:42:42.490+00:00before this referendum,i totally believed in the ...before this referendum,i totally believed in the BBC 100%,thats what shocked,disappointed me.now im listening to radio reports,watching news,thinking,is it the TRUTH?<br /><br />propaganda is a powerful tool waterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03242753707412340371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-4254560984227830752014-12-03T20:22:28.325+00:002014-12-03T20:22:28.325+00:00Point taken water, no matter how petty.
bracoPoint taken water, no matter how petty.<br /><br />bracoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-90930596734202765202014-12-03T20:18:19.522+00:002014-12-03T20:18:19.522+00:00'Eire style'
Ireland is not Independent ev...'Eire style'<br />Ireland is not Independent even yet. You seem to take this very lightly SS. Hve you read this and importantly, it's conclusions?<br /><br />http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/12/03/a-tale-of-two-referendums/<br /><br />bracoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-83715271852997486062014-12-03T20:16:29.302+00:002014-12-03T20:16:29.302+00:00not burning my bra till Home Rulenot burning my bra till Home Rulewaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03242753707412340371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-43241891858282475742014-12-03T20:03:48.718+00:002014-12-03T20:03:48.718+00:00rUK would have to invade Scotland to shut the Scot...rUK would have to invade Scotland to shut the Scottish Parliament.<br /><br />If Nicola just told them to fuck off that is. Which I imagine she would.<br /><br />Even then that would just make independence happen really quickly, just rather messily / Eire style.Scottish_Skiernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-58537674900276156512014-12-03T19:45:31.848+00:002014-12-03T19:45:31.848+00:00They should have been more environmentally conciou...They should have been more environmentally concious and composted it. However, it has been a bit chilly of late so I guess there's that as a mitigating factor.<br /><br />Anyway, this massive scandal should result in huge poll surges for New Labour, the Tories, UKIP and the lib dems by tomorrow afternoon. On Friday Nicola will resign, the SNP will fall to a vote of no confidence and we shall see Black Friday scenes in the shops as Scots rip each other apart trying to stock up on union flags following a national outpouring of re-found Britishness.<br /><br /> Scottish_Skiernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-36313047473710343242014-12-03T19:42:49.513+00:002014-12-03T19:42:49.513+00:00The smith proposals; and that's all they are, ...The smith proposals; and that's all they are, proposals, are nothing more than a watery broth, made by boiling the shadow of a carrot that had been left to rot in rain. The irony is that this thin miserablist broth will be watered down to nothing in Westminster. The proposals or what left of them, will be the political equivalent of homeopathy. Just the merest hint of something that is relying on a placebo effect to carry the day.<br /><br />But when it comes this this sort of political gutter fighting. We have always been far too polite with these people and they run riot with us. Constantly trying to put us on the back foot. Like fighting pigs, they drag us down to their level and beat us with experience. We need to find a more effective way to deal with them. Less of the beatific smiles and taking it on the chin. Remember the look on labours face when the SNP announced that they wouldn't let councils hound voters for non payment of poll tax - that's how you beat these idiots. In the parliament with policies that wrong foot them.David Agnewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-968973696136562002014-12-03T19:38:48.026+00:002014-12-03T19:38:48.026+00:00water,
I cooked my dinner in a Gas oven tonight. A...water,<br />I cooked my dinner in a Gas oven tonight. A GAS OVEN!!<br /><br />Grow a pair and deal with the reality hard learnt from the YES Campaign's recent experience at the hands of Britain's 'free press and World renowned, completely unbiased BBC'. <br /><br />Otherwise you are just another hindrance and not a help.<br /><br />bracoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-59217185276698165292014-12-03T19:20:05.583+00:002014-12-03T19:20:05.583+00:00SNP are in for a shock. Nicola thinks kissing babi...SNP are in for a shock. Nicola thinks kissing babies and spot light waving to mass meetings is somehow going to deradicalise those 80 odd thousand newly joined members. <br /><br />News Flash! Those members mostly joined out of frustration at the apparent disbanding of the 'YES movement' by the centralist YES Scotland HQ (without even bothering to consult the grassroots movement they were supposed to represent and speak for)! <br /><br />Those new members wanted to carry the fight on (even if that required getting involved in Party Politics. Something they self evidently refused to do before the referendum YES campaign and that 'NO' vote). Not too many of the type of activists that would bat an eye lid at these councillors' behaviour (I would think). Much more likely aplaude it! <br /><br />You Loyal SNP folk out there, did you think the participation of your Party in the Myth Commission was heartfelt and binding, or more a petty party political manouvre to be abandoned as soon as the shit was smelt?<br /><br />Well we can all smell it now, and the leadership of 'our' Independence Party has decided to 'suspend and potentially expel' elected members for saying as much. Or more likely for saying as much in an easily understandable and graphic way. Bit too 'movementish' that. Won't put folk back to sleep that kind of 'populist' behaviour. Next we will be having protests outside the BBC again. The BBC for God's sake! <br /><br />Oh how the unionist media must snigger and giggle, disbelieving at their apparent power over us 'separatists'.<br /><br />bracoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-11730267832960327542014-12-03T19:15:05.989+00:002014-12-03T19:15:05.989+00:00We know anything that happens YES side is magnifie...We know anything that happens YES side is magnified 100 x MSM<br /><br />SNP councillors BURNING smith report is a massive own goal<br /><br />connections to burning books(jews) is doing the rounds already<br /><br />waterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03242753707412340371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-85567499201380358062014-12-03T19:04:52.854+00:002014-12-03T19:04:52.854+00:00I'd be perfectly happy to see people burn lord... I'd be perfectly happy to see people burn lord Smith never mind his report. Death penalty for treason, child abuse, wildlife crimes and being scum. <br /><br />How can THE VOW be delivered according to unionists when THE VOW doesn't exist according to the same unionists?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-38838416742434893082014-12-03T17:36:13.444+00:002014-12-03T17:36:13.444+00:00The difference is that when the Salmond guy was bu...The difference is that when the Salmond guy was burned and some folk complained, Unionist politicans said they should stop taking it so seriously, it was a bit of fun/banter. Now the same unionists are going mental over paper being burned. If you can't see how hypocritical that makes them...<br /><br />A different anonymous who thinks neither of them should have been burned. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-7183344927544305452014-12-03T16:49:58.054+00:002014-12-03T16:49:58.054+00:00On the other hand for the very casual reader you h...On the other hand for the very casual reader you have these headlines:<br /><br />"Smith Delivers - Vow honoured by Westminster"<br />"SNP welcome Smith report but hjkjhj asdui uioiuy kjh jhgkjhgkjhg [simulated reader interest]"<br />"SNP Councillors burn Smith Report".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-69115740804183530292014-12-03T16:36:20.132+00:002014-12-03T16:36:20.132+00:00Burning a document that your own party has agreed ...Burning a document that your own party has agreed to take part in and contribute to doesn't say much. Ignore the unionists etc, this could be viewed as them going against the party leadership.chalksnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-14602318954880615492014-12-03T16:25:27.933+00:002014-12-03T16:25:27.933+00:00I don't personally agree with what the council...I don't personally agree with what the councillors did, but suspending them (and potentially expelling them) for burning a piece of paper seems a bit silly to me, to put it mildly.James Kellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-78140321354337334772014-12-03T16:10:36.942+00:002014-12-03T16:10:36.942+00:00I see that the councillors in question have been s...I see that the councillors in question have been suspended by the SNP and that Nicola Sturgeon has apologised for their behaviour. As a member of the SNP I am extremely disappointed with this surrender to the faux outrage of the Unionists. My view is that the councillors were making an entirely valid political point in a reasonable way, and have done nothing to justify any disciplinary action. If we just ask the Unionists for independence, always being ever so polite in case any of them manage to find some cause to take offence, then we might as well give up now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-28724612543818204642014-12-03T16:04:01.639+00:002014-12-03T16:04:01.639+00:00Did anyone ever employ him again? Has he been rel...Did anyone ever employ him again? Has he been released from prison yet?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com