tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post503595005187808518..comments2024-03-29T00:45:59.964+00:00Comments on SCOT goes POP!: "Name one country that allows FOREIGNERS to vote in constitutional referendums. Go on, James, name just ONE!" James Kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-78858357629498853492021-10-07T22:25:19.702+01:002021-10-07T22:25:19.702+01:00"Constitutional referendums" are what wa..."Constitutional referendums" are what was specified. There was no requirement for them to be on the subject of independence. I'd have thought, actually, that there's been a much more recent constitutional referendum in New Zealand than the one Bernard mentioned. There was the one on changing the national flag to remove the Union Jack.James Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-44181442975844716582021-10-07T16:06:48.868+01:002021-10-07T16:06:48.868+01:00With respect Bernard I do not know what point you ...With respect Bernard I do not know what point you think I am missing. My point is that I am referring to an independence referendum in Scotland not a reform of an electoral system. Hardly in the same ballpark. Independence for Scotlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335330210460885789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-12772851372708016992021-10-07T11:39:14.831+01:002021-10-07T11:39:14.831+01:00The English government will never accept Scottish ...The English government will never accept Scottish Independence because of its economic effects on the English economy. The strategy for Independence should now focus on getting International recognition of an Independent Scottish State and it should include a de facto hostile English state.jeans-jacqueshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209313475974449077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-57434526306649497502021-10-07T07:50:18.104+01:002021-10-07T07:50:18.104+01:00With respect, I think you are missing the point. T...With respect, I think you are missing the point. The last constitutional issue put before the electorate was in 2011 concerning the reform of the electoral system. The same rules applied then. Bernard Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08617221540378909621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-34786033290222035642021-10-06T23:37:04.648+01:002021-10-06T23:37:04.648+01:00Bernard - Was one of the two referendums you refer...Bernard - Was one of the two referendums you refer to an independence referendum? So not really comparable are they? Independence for Scotlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335330210460885789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-472888841883696692021-10-06T23:34:26.144+01:002021-10-06T23:34:26.144+01:00Unknown - any of these countries looking to hold a...Unknown - any of these countries looking to hold an independence referendum any time soon. Independence for Scotlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335330210460885789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-31304401634560795182021-10-06T12:08:38.830+01:002021-10-06T12:08:38.830+01:00Lomax, thanks for proving my point with more of yo...Lomax, thanks for proving my point with more of your one line snidey comments. <br /><br />Although I do recognise your increased intellectual effort in posting two lines at 11.10am. Well done you.<br /><br />Wit - nothing witty about your snidey comments. <br /><br />Lomax - a classic WGD numpty. Independence for Scotlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335330210460885789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-34357083064760458252021-10-06T11:12:00.779+01:002021-10-06T11:12:00.779+01:00And I just love those super patriots who can't...And I just love those super patriots who can't be arsed living in Scotland.Alec Lomaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11196676685897505463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-14113579678868149222021-10-06T11:10:50.751+01:002021-10-06T11:10:50.751+01:00Yeah, well I know where to put commas and full sto...Yeah, well I know where to put commas and full stops.<br />Oh, and as the Bard of Avon wrote, "Brevity is the soul of wit".Alec Lomaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11196676685897505463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-43133149902206566522021-10-06T07:04:26.982+01:002021-10-06T07:04:26.982+01:00As you mention in NZ non nationals who have reside...As you mention in NZ non nationals who have residency can vote both in national elections and in referendums. In fact as an NZ non national resident I voted in the most recent general election and in the two referendums held concurrently.Bernard Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08617221540378909621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-62552480296810488582021-10-06T00:22:13.326+01:002021-10-06T00:22:13.326+01:00Lomax, there are two things consistent about your...Lomax, there are two things consistent about your posts. <br /><br />1. Very few words. <br /><br />2. Snidey Comments. <br /><br />A classic WGD numpty. You ain't no intellectual giant are you Lomax. Independence for Scotlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335330210460885789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-35739587182141661122021-10-05T23:32:34.889+01:002021-10-05T23:32:34.889+01:00Ok, he loves Scotland so much that he resides in C...Ok, he loves Scotland so much that he resides in Catalonia.Alec Lomaxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-21627048612071747192021-10-05T22:37:34.551+01:002021-10-05T22:37:34.551+01:00Jean - Jacques you just argued against the validit...Jean - Jacques you just argued against the validity of your precedent/gold standard comment by saying the English government would not accept the result anyway. Not much of a gold standard is it. Not much of a precedent if Westminster won't accept a yes vote but will accept a no vote.Independence for Scotlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335330210460885789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-25218921114289044682021-10-05T22:31:56.503+01:002021-10-05T22:31:56.503+01:00Catalonia ya numpty Lomax. Catalonia ya numpty Lomax. Independence for Scotlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335330210460885789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-51035549873683916722021-10-05T18:08:41.136+01:002021-10-05T18:08:41.136+01:00This comment has been removed by the author.Groveburyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03659932419757635215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-27696435457668692522021-10-05T14:25:51.676+01:002021-10-05T14:25:51.676+01:00Jeans-Jacques, I'm not sure that there is any ...Jeans-Jacques, I'm not sure that there is any issue Internationally with the next referendum (I don't actually think there'll be one any time soon anyway) if there is a new constituency agreed by the various parties involved. Personally, I think there MUST be a minimum residential qualification. Personally I think 10 years, but am open to be persuaded on a different timeframe. <br /><br />There is NO "gold standard" (as someone likes to say) on what a nation's independence campaign should be, or how that would present itself in a national referendum. There ARE however many criteria which the UN endorses that were NOT adhered to last time. So some changes are absolutely required.Tony Littlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02008273900618097432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-13651881351965208872021-10-05T12:37:27.499+01:002021-10-05T12:37:27.499+01:00That would be the same Barrhead Boy who loves Scot...That would be the same Barrhead Boy who loves Scotland so much that he resides in Spain?Alec Lomaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11196676685897505463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-12834487204684032942021-10-05T03:22:51.777+01:002021-10-05T03:22:51.777+01:002014 set the precedence. To be recognized internat...2014 set the precedence. To be recognized internationally the same process has to be applied. And as it is likely that the English government won't accept the validity of the vote international recognition is paramount.jeans-jacqueshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10209313475974449077noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-65904752370230602962021-10-05T02:22:39.935+01:002021-10-05T02:22:39.935+01:00"James Kelly and Stuart Campbell taking the s...<i>"James Kelly and Stuart Campbell taking the same side on this matter. Who would have thought it. Has James fallen out with another blogger but this time one he has to work with on the Alba NEC?"</i><br /><br />No is the short answer to that. My disagreements with Barrhead Boy date back years, so nothing has changed. If I recall, the issue began when he was denouncing anyone who wasn't coming on board with ISP (which in the overall scheme of things was practically everyone) as traitors to independence. When he messaged me out of the blue today (largely on a wind-up mission, it seemed), I made the point to him that we've both been elected to a democratic body to represent very different views, in some cases diametrically opposed views, and that's fine. I told him that I look forward to both of us disagreeing courteously and constructively. I think that's the only realistic approach to take - there's no point pretending we're on the same page about everything, because we're simply not.<br /><br />As far as Stuart Campbell is concerned, I do agree with a lot of what he said about blood and soil nationalism and how Alba should disassociate itself from it. However, he ruined his point slightly by shoehorning in his irrational hatred of the Gaelic language - something which has nothing to do with ethno-nationalism.<br /><br />The fact that there is currently no Scottish citizenship is <i>precisely the point</i>. That's what makes it impossible for English people living in Scotland to be "foreign nationals".James Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-10655370964348083542021-10-04T23:58:33.486+01:002021-10-04T23:58:33.486+01:00James you met the challenge - so well done. Of cou...James you met the challenge - so well done. Of course the UK franchise for the EU ref was very abnormal due to the historic legacy of the British Empire. Not something I would hold up as a standard to be followed. Not that I am suggesting you are doing that. It does however illustrate the fact that Scotland within this Empire legacy is also an abnormal situation. A colonial type situation. It is not a straight democratic decision as Scotland has never known democracy. Scotland has no democratic control over who enters Scotland. We have no say over these matters even during a pandemic. Ultimately we do what England wants as evidenced by the EU ref itself. Also as evidenced by the 2014 referendum. As the Daily Mail gleefully reported at the time - it was the English that won it for us. <br /><br />What a weird and not so wonderful situation in the world of Scottish independence. I blame Sturgeon - no surprise there I hear people saying to themselves. Absolutely no leadership by Sturgeon of the yes movement. In fact she is actively trying to divide it. It's a disgrace if she is not being paid for her services by the British State. <br /><br />James Kelly and Stuart Campbell taking the same side on this matter. Who would have thought it. Has James fallen out with another blogger but this time one he has to work with on the Alba NEC? <br /><br />As there isn't going to be an independence referendum any time soon it's an academic argument about what the voting franchise should be. But hey we might as well argue amongst ourselves as nothing else is happening on the independence front. <br /><br />I agree with MBoyd - there should be a prescribed period of residence. That is not blood and soil nationalism. <br /><br />Blood and soil nationalism is saying your parents must be Scottish and you must be born in Scotland to get a vote. Who is suggesting this?<br /><br />"and citizenship in Scotland," not aware there is such a thing James. If there is I would like to have it instead of The British Citizenship that we are currently forced to have. Your point about UK personnel from Wales/ England and NIreland not being foreign nationals is undermined if you say there is a Scottish citizenship. Independence for Scotlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10335330210460885789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-40148634797369185852021-10-04T22:43:06.659+01:002021-10-04T22:43:06.659+01:00New Zealand allows all non-citizens with a residen...New Zealand allows all non-citizens with a residence class visa (includes holders of Australian residence visas) to vote in all elections/referendums after 12 months residence in the country and they are included in all votes in all issues.<br /><br />Also Jamaica and a few other Caribbean nations allow citizens of Commonwealth countries full vote rights. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09976924783902992204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-4491984756420524042021-10-04T21:48:48.557+01:002021-10-04T21:48:48.557+01:00It's quite simple you allow a prescribed perio...It's quite simple you allow a prescribed period of residence to apply for the vote. A generation of residence? Don't let the Tories dictate everything. Let them specify a generation and hoist them from their own petard.<br /><br /><br /><br />M boydhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02831661909154742065noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-76272654289678465832021-10-04T21:36:52.435+01:002021-10-04T21:36:52.435+01:00Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Barrhead Boy.Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Barrhead Boy.Cordon Blahnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-43528230924987008862021-10-04T20:33:05.932+01:002021-10-04T20:33:05.932+01:00Scotland is a partner in a voluntary union with En...Scotland is a partner in a voluntary union with England, but nonetheless is a separate and distinct nation.<br />Applying the principles of the right to self-determination in the UN charter, any Scottish vote to end the union should not allow voters from the other partner nation a vote on the matter (which in effect would allow a veto) no matter where they reside<br />Unfair? No, see 1 above<br />Glass Wegiannoreply@blogger.com