tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post467536938620246370..comments2024-03-28T15:24:36.462+00:00Comments on SCOT goes POP!: No, Jeremy Corbyn didn't make a strategic mistake with his offer to stop No DealJames Kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-8988082182174193342019-08-17T18:47:44.281+01:002019-08-17T18:47:44.281+01:00Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its ...Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its express will; a will expressed by a Scotland only vote refusing legislative consent in fully devolved areas. <br /><br />Which was overruled by fascists.<br /><br />Cool, well soon you won't have to worry about English fascists anymore right. So everyone gets what they want, ENG & Wales get Brexit, Scotland gets Indy and NI probably rejoins Ireland in a year all so. The other alternative is that the UK does not leave the EU in which case Scotland gets to stay in the EU. Its a win win whatever happens if you are an indy/EU supporting Scot. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-63501748882993844222019-08-17T18:38:43.621+01:002019-08-17T18:38:43.621+01:00Scotland refused legislative consent, which, under...Scotland refused legislative consent, which, under the UK constitution, should have stopped its passage and kept Scotland in the EU. <br /><br />Nope this has been argued already and the Supreme court ruled that legislative consent was not required by the devolved assembly's. Again I would of through this would be pretty obvious; if the Scot Gov could of blocked Scotland leaving the EU through an legal don't you think they would of done it by now. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-20625385060205973562019-08-17T18:31:45.164+01:002019-08-17T18:31:45.164+01:00Anyway, to save us going around in circles I agree...Anyway, to save us going around in circles I agree that the EUref was organised by a single act and held on the same day with aim of obtaining a notional 'UK + Gibraltar wide' result. So in that sense it was one vote.<br /><br />However, it was legally a number of separate votes held in different countries with their own laws, languages, rules and regulations, police, courts, election organisers.... <br /><br />And of course, it can't be used to justify taking Scotland out of the EU because it had no legal weight in Scotland or 'UK-wide'. <br /><br />Only the EU exit bill does that and it was refused legislative consent in Scotland by both pro-indy and unionist parties. So again it cannot be used to justify taking Scotland of the EU.<br /><br />Scotland is being taken out of the EU against its express will; a will expressed by a <i>Scotland only vote</i> refusing legislative consent in fully devolved areas. <br /><br />Which was overruled by fascists. Scottish Skierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10584099659760612109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-48420202911369796092019-08-17T18:02:11.674+01:002019-08-17T18:02:11.674+01:00The referendum was not a devolved matter and did n...The referendum was not a devolved matter and did not affect devolved areas so it would not need to go through Holyrood to obtain legislative consent. This is primary school level stuff.<br /><br />Westminster can legislate for one or all home nations at a time. The referendum act legislates for four simultaneous referendums, each having slightly different rules and regulations due to them being held in different countries in the eyes of the law. These would then be combined to give a notional overall result for the UK. Notional only as the UK is not a single legal jurisdiction. <br />Each country had it’s own count. <br /><br />The results of are given here by country:<br /><br />https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results<br /><br />The result was not legally binding meaning it did not carry any legal weight in Scotland or any of the home nations. It likewise carried no democratic mandate in Scotland or N. Ireland. Ergo, it cannot be used to justify brexit, at least for these two. <br /><br />The actual EU exit bill, which does force Scotland out of the EU, carries legal weight. However, Westminster didn’t have the power for this as the UK isn’t a single country with a single parliament. Scotland refused legislative consent, which, under the UK constitution, should have stopped its passage and kept Scotland in the EU. <br /><br />However, English MPs, having lost democratically, simply overruled the will of the people of Scotland and forced the legislation through, cancelling devolution.<br /><br />So the reason Scotland is leaving the EU is nothing to do with 2016 being ‘UK-wide’, but due to English MPs overruling democracy and taking control of Scottish law to force it out of the EU. <br /><br />If any referendum is involved, it's the 1997 result being binned by England as it doesn't suit them.Scottish Skierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10584099659760612109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-39833587877080887412019-08-17T16:06:07.144+01:002019-08-17T16:06:07.144+01:00My dung hole has been rammed by my own fist. I'...My dung hole has been rammed by my own fist. I'm a star in the LGBT community and share my feces with like mined perverts. I love SKAT and can devour the biggest poops around.GWCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-18792522919704515802019-08-17T15:03:42.104+01:002019-08-17T15:03:42.104+01:00It was in welsh becasue there was a provision in t...It was in welsh becasue there was a provision in the westminister act for it to be in Welsh <br /> In Wales, there must also appear on the ballot papers—<br />B<br />2 European Union Referendum Act 2015 (c. 36)<br />(a) the following Welsh version of the question—<br />“A ddylai’r Deyrnas Unedig aros yn aelod o’r Undeb Ewropeaidd neu<br />adael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd?”, and<br />(b) the following Welsh versions of the alternative answers—<br />“Aros yn aelod o’r Undeb Ewropeaidd<br />Gadael yr Undeb Ewropeaidd”.<br /><br />For the purpose of the Act Scotland was considered a voting area (exactly as it is in EU elections)<br />Each of the following, as it exists on the day of the referendum, is a “voting<br />area” for the purposes of this Act—<br />(a) a district in England for which there is a district council;<br />(b) a county in England in which there are no districts with councils;<br />(c) a London borough;<br />(d) the City of London (including the Inner and Middle Temples);<br />(e) the Isles of Scilly;<br />(f) a county or county borough in Wales;<br />(g) a local government area in Scotland;<br />(h) Northern Ireland;<br />(i) Gibraltar<br /><br />So one act, one referendum one question (in two languages) covering the whole of the UK. <br />After it has passed an act applicable to all 3-4 legal jurisdictions, this is then incorporated as required separately into local laws, just as EU law is dealt with by member states.<br /><br />if this was true then obviously there would be a record of this happening in Scotland which as I have peviously said is not the case. Evidence here:<br />https://www.parliament.scot/parliamentarybusiness/Bills/72402.aspx<br /><br />Yup think we have pretty much proved conclusively that there was only one ref, so as you said its done :)<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-20282955080317061842019-08-17T14:32:10.346+01:002019-08-17T14:32:10.346+01:00Sorry, but you but you don't seem to understan...Sorry, but you but you don't seem to understand the UK. Westminster passes acts applicable to Scotland, Wales, N. Ireland and England. <br /><br />It doesn't pass acts of 'UK law' as no such thing exits. So it cannot legislate to hold a 'UK referendum', only for referendums to be held at the same time in all UK legal jurisdictions / nations.<br /><br />After it has passed an act applicable to all 3-4 legal jurisdictions, this is then incorporated as required separately into local laws, just as EU law is dealt with by member states. <br /><br />If we all voted in legally the same referendum, the ballot papers would be identical (they were not as the Welsh had a different one), the courts overseeing the referendum would be the same (which is not the case), the law jurisdiction governing the referendum would be the same (mythical 'British law')... the police force ensuring the law was upheld would be the same... Registered campaigns would be the same ('Scotland stronger in Europe' was the official Remain campaign for the Scottish EUref) etc.<br /><br />I voted for 'Scotland to be Stronger in Europe'; Britain wasn't mentioned. If I had broken electoral law, the punishment would be different for me than for someone in England (as the bill discusses in detail) as we voted in different votes.<br /><br />In Scotland, we have separate political parties for all the same reasons; both Scotland and N. Ireland are legally separate nations. If English Labour want to stand in Scotland, they need to register themselves here as an accounting unit. The SNP would need to register themselves in England to stand in elections there. This is because UK general elections are not a single election. If they were, a single registration would suffice.<br /><br />Electors in Scotland separately elect MPs to represent them. It's just all done on the same day UK-wide. It's why there is a Scottish Grand Committee...separate advocate Generals for each nation etc.<br /><br />Sorry, but if you want it to be the 'same' referendum officially, you need a single legal system. Otherwise it is the home nations holding votes all at the same time. If you take time to read the act, you would find it littered with references to Scotland, Wales etc dealing with these all individually as they were all distinct votes by the very definition of the word.<br /><br />And, as noted, the result was entirely advisory. It was not legally binding for any UK home nation. For that simple reason it never ever had to apply 'UK-wide'. That was a choice. Folks saying 'It was a UK-wide vote so the whole UK has (legally) to leave' is just purile bullshit with no basis in law or democratic principle.<br /><br />I think we've exhausted this one. Scottish Skierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10584099659760612109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-6697738130748664272019-08-17T12:48:15.120+01:002019-08-17T12:48:15.120+01:00Gibralter was once part of the North African Conti...Gibralter was once part of the North African Continent then it broke away. There was no referendum! However in modern Gibralter the people voted to remain as British territory and it does sit in a strategic shipping lane for trade. The Royal Navy has a refuelling port in Gibralter which could be denied if the Spanish took over. GWCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-38335350268766615762019-08-17T12:42:47.769+01:002019-08-17T12:42:47.769+01:00Err no it was a UK referendum covered by one act. ...Err no it was a UK referendum covered by one act. The fact that the Scottish parliament did not need to pass any legislation for it to be held in Scotland shows this, . Gibraltar passed its own act for the referendum to be held with the results from that referendum added in the south west England figures. If it was a separate referendum in Scotland then Scotland would of had to passed its own legislation in the same way that Gibraltar did.<br /><br />Anyhow can't see what your getting so worked up about - as i keep saying indy is a stones throw away for Scotland with the EU waiting in the wings with open arms to embrace Scotland as it sails off to to its new golden age. Why are you worrying about what happened three years ago? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-31622682854336545682019-08-17T11:59:28.345+01:002019-08-17T11:59:28.345+01:00The EU referendum was not UK-wide. It was UK+Gibra...The EU referendum was <i>not</i> UK-wide. It was UK+Gibraltar wide; the latter is not part of the UK. <br /><br />It was held in 4 different legal jurisdictions so was legally 4 referendums held simultaneously. If you wanted to dispute the Scottish result, you'd do so in Scotland.<br /><br />The original referendum should have been EVEL as only a majority there voted for it. The UK government was under absolutely no obligation to hold it UK-wide. After failing to get mandates for it in all but England, they chose to force it on 4/5 of the nations. It was entirely a choice. <br /><br />Secondly, the result was only advisory. There was absolutely no legal obligation to go ahead with brexit at all, never mind forcing it to be UK + Gibraltar wide. There was a democratic obligation, but only for England and Wales. 3/5 nations and 3/4 legal jurisdictions opposed brexit; a massive landslide majorities.<br /><br />So again, it was simple choice by England to force brexit on Scotland, N. Ireland and Gibraltar. There was no law requiring this nor democratic mandate. <br /><br />If England was a friend, it would have moved to independence +/- Wales just as Scotland would have done in 2014.<br /><br />It is not brexit which is breaking the UK, but this action by England, or, specifically, the current EVEL English government, which is acting like it owns the UK union and Gibraltar. <br /><br />http://whatscotlandthinks.org/questions/do-you-agree-or-disagree-with-nicola-sturgeon-that-it-was-democratically-unacce#table<br /><br />An overwhelming majority of Scots agreed that it is a democratic outrage, with 62% ex DK saying so. These are the 6/10 that will vote Yes as per the BBC projections for a no deal.<br /><br />Anyway, I rest my case, which according to recent polling, won. Scottish Skierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10584099659760612109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-72826206258487841872019-08-17T11:36:01.297+01:002019-08-17T11:36:01.297+01:00Next you will be telling me that Gibraltar is part...Next you will be telling me that Gibraltar is part of this 'mythical' UK one nation rather than say a yet further different legal jurisdiction that also held a referendum at the same time. Scottish Skierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10584099659760612109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-74545012805015890802019-08-17T11:30:07.342+01:002019-08-17T11:30:07.342+01:00Scotland is different legal jurisdiction to the rU...Scotland is different legal jurisdiction to the rUK, so in eyes of the law, it was a separate referendum held at the same time. This is how UK-wide elections etc work. It's why when e.g. changes are made to electoral laws, these need to be separately incorporated into Scots law (and N. Irish law) as appropriate. Scottish Skierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10584099659760612109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-67542205443357367692019-08-17T11:22:27.393+01:002019-08-17T11:22:27.393+01:00I think they will name people like Ernestine Gash-...I think they will name people like Ernestine Gash-Wylie and the group around her who eat Italian and French food.Hamish the Greeknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-53713270646008993522019-08-17T11:20:16.666+01:002019-08-17T11:20:16.666+01:00Senna is as good a cure for constipation as any ot...Senna is as good a cure for constipation as any other remedy on the market.Hamish the Greeknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-33772756474568233122019-08-17T10:11:26.237+01:002019-08-17T10:11:26.237+01:00The UK as a whole (it was a UK wide referendum) vo...The UK as a whole (it was a UK wide referendum) voted to leave the EU. Currently the UK is therefore leaving the EU. It's not a case of being friendly its a case of the UK is leaving if you want to remain part of the UK then you are leaving the EU as per the referendum result. If not then you need to make the case for Independence and leave the UK (as you say Corbyn etc will not stand in your way).<br /><br />Honestly cant see your problem, yes is on 52 going to 60% if its a hard exit. Once you leave the you can join the EU. Seems perfectly easy.<br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-87157911584395916352019-08-17T09:52:12.962+01:002019-08-17T09:52:12.962+01:00I notice you just cannot find a way around what I ...I notice you just cannot find a way around what I have stated. There is absolutely no reason why England can’t stop article 50 then go for independence (along with wales) outside the EU, letting Scotland + N. Ireland stay in as the rUK. Scotland 2014 exactly, but for England +/- Wales. This could have been done from the start.<br /><br />If England was a good neighbour and friend to Scotland + N. Ireland, that is exactly what it would do / would have done. <br /><br />But as you are making very clear, England not a friend of Scotland; it thinks it owns the UK and can cancel EU membership for all home nations even if half of them still want it. What kind of friend is one that when they no longer want something shared, would rather smash it to bits in front of everyone than give it to those friends that still do? Not a friend, but an enemy.<br /><br />But then polls suggest that many in England <i>are</i> the friends of Scots and would be ok with the UK coming to an end so that Scotland + N. Ireland can remain in the EU. These people are the true friends of Scotland. Maybe Corbyn and McDonnell are examples if they will not try to stand in the way of Scots freely making that decision. We shall see.Scottish Skierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10584099659760612109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-48545344521257536272019-08-17T05:52:35.038+01:002019-08-17T05:52:35.038+01:00Can you send a link.Can you send a link.Stuart Jacksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03982984186783248734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-65541930885077154882019-08-17T01:01:44.499+01:002019-08-17T01:01:44.499+01:00Wonder when MI5 will reveal the EU collaborator na...Wonder when MI5 will reveal the EU collaborator names. The smell of fish will no doubt be prominent. Sturgeonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-40413232623705257512019-08-16T22:21:31.592+01:002019-08-16T22:21:31.592+01:00I assume by that comment you have pre arranged you...I assume by that comment you have pre arranged your own funeral. GWCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-46927359856503884952019-08-16T21:43:57.899+01:002019-08-16T21:43:57.899+01:00Nicola is playing a stormer.
Brit nats and Scottis...Nicola is playing a stormer.<br />Brit nats and Scottish unionists are spitting feathers. Sand shifting beneath their feet. <br />Slowly slowly catchee monkey. <br />Our day is coming. ramstamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10764651142754131538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-62010049513538241072019-08-16T21:27:17.935+01:002019-08-16T21:27:17.935+01:00They don't need to leave the UK becasue the (c...They don't need to leave the UK becasue the (currently) the UK is leaving the EU. Scotland does not want to follow that path so it has a choice stick with the UK out of the EU, or go for Indy. <br /><br />People 'down south' don't need to get rid of Scotland & NI to get Brexit yes, but as we are leaving anyhow there is no need. <br /><br />Anyhow as i said soon you will have Corbyn probably backed by the SNP so a speedy indy ref. I'm assuming you think that yes will win and there will be a speedy entry to the EU for an indy Scotland; no need to worry about England /Wales do then. <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-83903219025815195902019-08-16T21:25:20.294+01:002019-08-16T21:25:20.294+01:00Young James Scotland did not have referendum durin...Young James Scotland did not have referendum during 2016 it was the UK.<br />Scotland is part of the UK. The English, Welsh and NI did not get a vote in the Scottish 2014 referendum. If they did your Nat sis would have won. Your lot read it wrong. How to win is more important than losing. GWCnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-1979555775362214532019-08-16T19:59:08.203+01:002019-08-16T19:59:08.203+01:00Why would England + Wales not want to leave the UK...Why would England + Wales not want to leave the UK if Scotland and N. Ireland voted remain and England + wales voted Leave? It's the obvious, friendly solution to the problem where everyone gets what they want. Scotland and N. Ireland surely have the right to the UK's place in the EU if England + Wales don't want it?<br /><br />This is exactly what Scotland was doing in 2014. Why on earth could England + Wales not do the same?<br /><br />Polling even shows people who voted brexit down south are happy to wave goodbye to Scotland + N. Ireland to achieve brexit if needs be. So it's not a case of 'Why would they want it!' but they actually are happy with the idea.<br /><br />Unless you are suggesting England thinks the UK - and so the UK's place in the EU - belongs to it? That the other nations are it's colonies?<br /><br />England and Wales voted to 'leave' both Scotland and N. Ireland who vote to 'Remain'. The leavers should leave the UK and it's place in the EU to those that didn't vote for change. This is, as noted, exactly what was the case in 2014. Why should England + Wales be able to get things a different way?Scottish Skierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10584099659760612109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-66581317577587165482019-08-16T19:12:29.188+01:002019-08-16T19:12:29.188+01:00*leaving the EU*leaving the EUAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-42247021195784058252019-08-16T19:03:18.268+01:002019-08-16T19:03:18.268+01:00What's the point of swapping one govt headed b...What's the point of swapping one govt headed by someone with an ambiguous position on brexit for another?<br /><br />It's a pity corbyn doesn't put as much though into thwarting the conservatives and brexit rather than the lib dems and remain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com