tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post2690797811869432829..comments2024-03-29T04:11:41.539+00:00Comments on SCOT goes POP!: Unveiling the UK government's 'neverendum' on maintaining the unionJames Kellyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-7325813202597531112011-06-08T14:22:42.153+01:002011-06-08T14:22:42.153+01:00I can only assume from the way Rennie is coming at...I can only assume from the way Rennie is coming at issues that the LibDems believe that they have already lost in 2011 all their former voters who had any interest in further powers for Holyrood and he is just looking to retain the support that is left.<br /><br />The LibDems are finished in Scotland-they won't be cominng back as a significant force.JPJ2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-80901421978748949462011-06-07T18:18:01.718+01:002011-06-07T18:18:01.718+01:00James:
You should quote their own constitution ba...James:<br /><br />You should quote their own constitution back at those Lib-Dems claiming that they're not unionists. In essence it says that the people of the UK have the right to reorganise local government as much as they like as long as they don't threaten the UK. From Charles Kennedy to Ming Cambell to Tavish Scott and now to Willie Rennie and Michael Moore they've always been a bunch of hardline unionists. In fact their constitution forbids the Lib-Dems from supporting independence as an independent Scotland is not feasible within a federal UK framework.<br /><br />From the Preamble to the Lib-Dem Constitution:<br /><i>We believe that sovereignty rests with the people and that authority in a democracy derives from the people. We therefore acknowledge their right to determine the form of government best suited to their needs and commit ourselves to the promotion of a democratic federal framework within which as much power as feasible is exercised by the nations and regions of the United Kingdom.</i><br />http://www.libdems.org.uk/siteFiles/resources/PDF/Election%20Policy/CONSTITUTION_(NOVEMBER_2010_EDITION).pdfDougtheDughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02952281599715356995noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-91426837669065559322011-06-07T16:39:29.875+01:002011-06-07T16:39:29.875+01:00Doug, I agree that federalists are unionists, and ...Doug, I agree that federalists are unionists, and I made that point myself a few months ago. But I presume the point of some Lib Dems claiming otherwise is to emphasise that their party is neither in the traditional 'unionist camp' along with the Tories and Labour, and neither are they in the nationalist camp - they have their own distinct position between the two. Unfortunately, the Scottish Lib Dem leadership (both Moore and Rennie) take the opposite view - they clearly want to frame the Lib Dems as just another unionist party.<br /><br />I also accept that federalism doesn't automatically imply a more powerful parliament - there are some very weak federalist models out there. But in practice I think it would, and in any case entrenchment of the parliament's powers wouldn't go amiss - Calman, after all, is grotesquely taking some powers back to London.James Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01516007141763230886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-48999237930144909752011-06-07T09:18:57.345+01:002011-06-07T09:18:57.345+01:00Let them try to twit the Scottish people in that w...Let them try to twit the Scottish people in that way. The SNP should simply ignore them and press on with their referendum plans. In the event of a “yes” and if Westminster still want to stand in the way, the SNP should declare UDI like Rhodesia did in 1965. As to the Scotland Bill, well if they don’t give the Scots what they voted for in terms of beefed up powers now the Scottish Parliament wont pass the bill and Westminster will either have to tear up the Sewell Convention and force it on us contrary to their respect agenda (much trumpeted) or tuck their tail between their legs and roll over.<br /><br />The Lib Dems have much more to lose than the Tories and not just in Nick Clegg’s fevered imagination in the “long game” (i.e. their 11 Scottish MPs in four years time). Scottish local council elections are now less than a year away, do the Lib Dems want to be swept off that map as well?Munguinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16475165830302054002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-62893272864499607422011-06-07T09:00:19.494+01:002011-06-07T09:00:19.494+01:00Agree with the above additional points as well as ...Agree with the above additional points as well as with that advising the Secretary of State stepping back and reflecting before he issues anymore "muscular" fiats in defence of the "Union" (an increasingly phantasmagoric construction of the Anglo-centric, colonialist mind); to not do so and to inflame was has been, by and large, a relatively civilised public discourse, is to forget the law of unintended consequences in the heat of imperialist hubris. It is also to forget history and the lessons that should have been learned by all sentient and rational and democratic beings involved in this unfolding Scottish portion of the story with relation to the peoples and nations of these isles.<br /><br />This may be, potentially, an even more dangerous and regrettable consequence of such inflammatory pronouncements flouted in the face of the popular will. <br /><br />Let us hope not.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02975588480290026016noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-930120922627919768.post-59400250247682336042011-06-07T08:16:03.187+01:002011-06-07T08:16:03.187+01:00I heard it said forcefully at the Political Innova...<i>I heard it said forcefully at the Political Innovation conference in November that it was quite wrong to call the Lib Dems a 'unionist' party - they are, in fact, 'federalist'.</i><br /><br />The Lib-Dems do love that word don't they?<br /><br />The first thing to say is that federalism is a subset of unionism not a third option alongside independence and unionism. Whether it is a federal parliament in Scotland or a devolved one or whether there are other federal or devolved parliaments in the rest of the UK makes no difference to the integrity of the Union and the supremacy of the UK parliament in London. A Scotland with a federal parliament is still just a region in the UK.<br /><br />Federalism is just a way to reorganise regional government under the umbrella of a unitary UK just the same as devolution.<br /><br />The second thing to say is that all federalism means is that the powers of a regional parliament are constitutionally protected. It has no bearing on how powerful that parliament is. If the powers of the Welsh Parliament were constitutionally protected then it would be a Federal Parliament even though its powers are substantially less than the current devolved parliament in Scotland.<br /><br />The Lib-Dems have never come clean about what powers federal parliaments in the UK (note that UK word again) should have or whether they are talking about federal parliaments for the four "footballing" nations of the UK or something based on the "nations and regions" model of the Labour party.<br /><br />"Muscular Federalism", is just another name for, "Muscular Unionism".DougtheDughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02952281599715356995noreply@blogger.com