Monday, September 16, 2019

A Liberal Democrat FAQ on how liberal democracy works

Q. Is the No vote in the 2014 independence referendum the final say on the matter?

A. Absolutely.  You're not allowed to change your mind.  Not ever.  That's it.  Even if you were too young to vote.  Your elders decided for you.  Accept it.

Q. Is the Leave vote in the 2016 EU referendum the final say on the matter?

A. God, no.

Q. Should the Leave vote in the 2016 EU referendum at least be implemented before being revisited?

A. No, it shouldn't even be implemented.

Q. Would it have been OK not to even implement the result of the 2014 independence referendum?

A. No, ignoring the result of the indyref would have been a democratic outrage.

Q. In that case, isn't ignoring the result of the 2016 EU referendum a democratic outrage as well?

A. No.  The British people have had plenty of time to change their minds since 2016 and they have every right to do so.

Q. Haven't the Scottish people had even more time to change their minds since 2014?  Don't they have every right to do so?

A. No.  The Scottish people spoke in 2014 and that's it forever.  See above.

Q. Doesn't this suggest that the British people have more democratic rights than the Scottish people?

A. Look, we need tactical votes from Tory supporters in Edinburgh West and East Dunbartonshire, so if you're trying to get any consistency out of us you're wasting your time.

Q. Should a referendum be required to overturn the result of another referendum?

A.  Nope, no need for that.  An election victory would be enough.  (As long as it's the EU referendum result we're overturning, not the indyref result.)

Q.  But you could win an election on as little as 35% of the vote?

A.  So what?

Q.  Well, aren't you supposed to believe in proportional representation?  How can 35% of the vote possibly be sufficient to overturn a 52% Leave vote?

A.  We didn't choose the electoral system, but we have to accept the results it produces.

Q.  Don't you therefore have to accept the results the electoral system produces when it gives the SNP a majority of Scottish seats?

A.  No, in that particular case the result produced by the electoral system isn't what's important.  The SNP only got 37% of the vote - that's what counts.

Q. Doesn't it therefore follow that you'd have to accept the pro-independence parties' mandate to hold a second indyref when they win an impeccable mandate under the proportional representation voting system for Scottish Parliament elections?

A. No.  The Scottish people spoke in 2014 and aren't allowed any further say.  See above.

Q.  Aren't you complete hypocrites for saying that you can overturn an entire referendum result on 35% of the vote, but that 51% of the vote wouldn't be enough for the SNP and the Greens to simply hold another referendum?

A. We've already said you shouldn't expect consistency from us.  Weren't you listening?

Q. Why did the Liberal Democrats propose an in/out referendum on EU membership, years before David Cameron did, if you didn't think the result of such a referendum needed to be honoured?

A.  God, did we actually do that?  What are we like, eh?

Q. Did you enjoy serving in government with Iain Duncan Smith?  Any favourite IDS anecdotes?

A. No comment.

58 comments:

  1. Replies
    1. I realise Mr Kelly was being satirical and I certainly chuckled. However, why are no media interviewers asking her of Wullie Wombat these very questions?

      Of course, since the COLONEL shot the craw, they need a 'poster person' and she is the best of a very bad lot. Is there any talent on the Tory or Labour benches at Holyrood?

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  2. No matter what the Lib Dems say, the rank hypocrisy is self evident to voters.

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  3. Stop mocking the afflicted! However, even I enjoyed Willie Rennie's explanation yesterday of how the LibDems would ignore a majority of SNP MPs and MSPs elected by the Scottish electorate and block a second Independence Referendum. Is there any chance of someone getting a brain scan of Ms Swinson or Mr Rennie while they are giving their views on this subject so we can see if there is a previously undiscovered area of the brain that the LibDems have that no one else has?

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    1. I endorse your brain scan idea! However it is likely to show a shortfall in whatever area of the brain - apparently this bit:

      Cerebral Cortex Function

      The cerebral cortex is involved in several functions of the body including:

      Determining intelligence
      Determining personality
      Motor function
      Planning and organization
      Touch sensation
      Processing sensory information
      Language processing

      The cerebral cortex contains sensory areas and motor areas. Sensory areas receive input from the thalamus and process information related to the senses. They include the visual cortex of the occipital lobe, the auditory cortex of the temporal lobe, the gustatory cortex, and the somatosensory cortex of the parietal lobe. Within the sensory areas are association areas which give meaning to sensations and associate sensations with specific stimuli. Motor areas, including the primary motor cortex and the premotor cortex, regulate voluntary movement."

      Hmm...

      It appears to be entirely lacking in some folk. Which would kind of explain, in a very very sad way, Liberals, Conservatives, vote no voters and GWC!


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  4. Great summary of the current LiBDem position, James. So accurate. What a bunch of charlatans. Even Scottish tory voters will hold their noses when they vote tactically for the LibDems. Unfortunately, they will still do so.

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  5. They invented the word *British* to make you feel included but if you disagree with anything they tell you you're excluded

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    1. Stole the word more like. British is an old word for Welsh.

      Why does Jo Swine-son use several different accents in one sentence switching between New York, Ulster, Cockney, and Australian? Take a listen.

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    2. It's like someone wearing too many types of aftershave of perfume. It's sickly and confusing.

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  6. Poor GWC. What a shame.

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  7. Excellent, James. I suppose you could do one for Labour too and their disputes between Labour in Scotland and Labour everywhere else (except Wales, maybe), but you'd have to update it a couple of times a week at least...

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  8. Does it not also define the idiocy of playing by Unionist rules i.e. Indyref only ? The SNP are pursuing a Flodden Strategy by using the London playbook. Therefore, with a GE Indy plebiscite opportunity in full view surely the SNP cant fail to exploit this a second time, as they did in 2017 ?

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  9. I think the Lib Dems are targeting the hard right extremist liberal remain no surrender unionist vote.

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  10. Excellent. Have the Britnat state controlled media asked any of these questions yet?

    Dulpicitous, lying scheming Libdems being bigged up by Britnat media to ensure the Tories of some description are never voted out of office. Fabulous.

    Swinson the swindler could hardly be less genuine if she tried.
    Another imbecile headed for high office, a nasty piece of work though, must have a very effective propaganda team propping her up.

    Just one thing though, when will the next GE take place? Anyone know? Take a guess?

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  11. Could be should be a GE soon.
    If the anger I feel about the sleekit LibDems and their problem with what constitutes a mandate is more widespread then they will face a real grilling at the next election.
    Nae mair flying under the radar.
    Manic Rennie and the gruesome twosome from Edinburgh West must be the toast of Tory London.
    Swinson denies an indy mandate because of the loss of 21 SNP seats in 2017.
    Soon to be sorted if the polls are right. Tory lite? Not so sure about the lite.

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  12. James, did you see the firmer pres of EU council??? Van Rompoy?? Said there is growing sentiment to admit Scotland?? On front page of Reddit over here...

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  13. unfortunately many a word spoken in jest aye its true

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  14. Was listening to Johnson on the radio after he turned tail and ran away again, this time in Luxembourg, leaving the PM there to do a press conference on his own.

    All Boris does is say exactly what you want him to say, then go away and say the same to someone else, even if that's the opposite of what he just said to you. There is no clever master plan. There is no plan whatsoever. The UK is just going to go over the cliff.

    At some point soon, he'll say to remainers he's complying with the new no deal law, but tell leavers he's not doing that at all. This will continue right up until the UK goes over the edge.

    Britain is absolutely fucked.

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    Replies
    1. Good we are leaving under threat from the fascist EU regime. Boris is my hero we shall not be moved.

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    2. That's what he's told you, but he tells other the opposite.

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    3. And I'll add that a cliff edge brexit would probably see the UK break-up then rejoin (as separate nations) the EU within 6-12 months.

      Your best hope of a lasting brexit + UK sticking together is a soft exit with a solid trade deal.

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    4. Makes him a good politician. In war the truth has to be hidden behind a veil of lies.

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    5. No, he's tells the truth to everyone, even if it's a different truth to the truth he told earlier. It's true to him at that moment.

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  15. How far Great Britain has fallen. To be reduced to running away from press calls on international telly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49714338/brexit-press-conference-goes-on-without-johnson

    I'm so glad I'm not British. This would be utterly humiliating.

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    Replies
    1. You should be humiliated you are not British and crawling to the van pump er roy Nat si types who hated Adolf losing the war and closing down the holiday camps.

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    2. As I understand it, the Brits ran away while the 51st Highland division stood firm.

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    3. The Brits were the 51st Highland Div, up yer kilt. Dunkirk rearguard.

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    4. It's going to be the funniest thing ever when Britain begs once again for yet another extension.

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    5. Bien sur. Les anglais adorent les prolongements.

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  16. hahahahha love the thread header.

    There's something so depressingly tawdry about the Lib Dems, they are more ready to speak out of both sides of their mouth than anyone else out there.

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  17. FMQs on Thursday will be a joy to watch

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    1. I have never watched this unnecessary drivel before and after retiring. I pay tax for this lot not to work for a living. And we have the EU and House of Lords spongers tae boot. They throw, a so called free bus pass at us muppet and we should be grateful.

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  18. Tawdry. Just about sums up both BoJo and the entire political process we have experienced in the last few months. Respect to Niall!

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  19. I have put you Scots to work and taken you of benefits in your tens of thousands and yet you hate the Tories. You jockos are an ungrateful lot.

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    1. Yet you have failed to let Charlene Tilton know any of this. Why? Frightened of the reaction? The end of your special role as rapporteur?

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  20. The Luxembourg PM deserves to be respected.
    Johnson wouldn't have shown the same disrespect for a bigger nation like France or Germany.
    What an embarrassment that this clown is PM of Scotland too. That'll be the Union dividend.
    Imagine if we were represented by our own folk in the EU.
    We're Scots for God's sake.
    Who the hell says I'm a BRITON!

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  21. We shall sell out our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall close down the parliament, we shall empty all the bank accounts, we shall flee from reality and the people in the streets, we shall hide all our ills; we shall lie even to the queen, we shall never surrender.... Farage's puppet, wee Boris

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  22. Our resident BritNat troll continues to provide plenty of light entertainment. The cognitive drivel is hillarious. A BritNat in full retreat, complete denial mode is a sight to behold.

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  23. Wings over scotland now calling Joanna Cherry a liar because he doesn't understand the law
    The legal case today is about the unelected part of parliament taking decisions that the elected part can't scrutinise

    MPs are elected by the people but the executive elect themselves within their own party, that means they are in effect unelected for the position they hold so must be held accountable by those who are and if they executive prevent that scrutiny by closing down parliament they're breaking the law

    You would think after the law spanking Stuart Campbell's backside before he'd learn something, the law's not about what you want to be right for you, it's purely about the law and the interpretation of it, not the Stuart Farage Campbell dog whistle version

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  24. It will be an absolute disaster for the union today of judges uphold the court of session ruling.

    It would be particularly disastrous if they also upheld the English High Court ruling.

    This would mean Scots law wins out, as if it's a UK-wide matter and illegal in one part of the UK, then it's illegal across the whole of the UK.

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  25. Chances are the Scots ruling may be upheld. PM / government rep has not supplied a witness statement. Again.

    The automatic assumption therefore is that reasons for prorogation were unlawful.

    Of course a signed witness statement could be provided. However, if whoever signs it is deemed to be lying, that's a criminal offence punishable by jail.

    So no witness statement will be provided....

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  26. Sky news coverage of todays doings in the Supreme court are a disgrace and deliberately inflationary by pointing out the nationality of which judges are Scottish Irish and Welsh but making no reference to which judges are English thereby creating a distinction as to any possible legal decision by those judges which no doubt newspapers like the Daily Mail will parade front page as betrayers of the people of England if this case is found to support the Scottish decision that Boris Johnson was indeed acting unlawfully

    This constant exceptionalising of England by themselves as more important than any other nation or peoples will lead to their inevitable undoing, of course it's why over 50 countries have taken their Independence from England since WW11, but they still continue to display the same behaviour that they either cannot, or refuse to learn

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    1. If you support Scottish Independence however, this is ideal.

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    2. We have seen polls in England recently shift to supporting Scots having a new indyref / a border poll for N. Ireland.

      The next stage of this ongoing process is for English voters to support Scottish independence / Irish reunification.

      The one nation unionists have already lost power in England to the English nationalist populists. If polls show increasing support for English indy, the populists will quickly grasp that rose.

      The supreme court case could well mark a major milestone in this.

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    3. And English indy is key, as Scottish indy means the end of the UK. There would be no UK any more. In that sense the end of the empire is more natural if England is already becoming England again.

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    4. Yes indeed, they invented *British* to con us into feeling included then when we included ourselves they excluded us just as they've always done with every country in their glorious Empire

      And as they're drowning they'll still scream God save the Queen instead of .....Help!! because England is above better and too good for that kind of behaviour don't you know

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  27. If the court rules Boris didn't break English law, there's no way he'll resign and recall parliament. Doesn't matter what the court of session says.

    An Englishman is not ruled by Scottish courts.

    I'll put money on this.

    All constitutional hell will break loose though if this happens.

    Shit, even if he does resign, the same will happen. 'Jock remainers bring down the English PM with their pretendy courts'.

    Unionists need to get down on their knees and pray the unanimous court of session ruling was wrong and BJ was completely honest with lizzie.

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    1. You are talking mince Skier. What the bojo said to the Queen is not recorded.

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  28. Cherry and the SNP are not pursuing this to keep the UK in the EU.

    If they can stop brexit against the will of the English electorate, they will end the UK in the easiest way possible; England seek it.

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    1. Exactly. Although some characters haven't managed to read between the lines.

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  29. North of the border it's OUR PRECIOUS UNION - in London it's become STOP SCOTLAND.
    The SCOTTISH LibDems didn't get a mention at their so British conference.
    The SCOTTISH bit is clearly just for the natives.
    Haw Wullie, We're starting tae notice.

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  30. If brexit was EVEL, Jo Swindon wouldn't be able to vote on it.

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  31. Jo Swinson will need to get herself an English seat because at the next election it's odds on she'll lose East Dunbartonshire so how does she lead a party without a seat and how does she become Prime Minister without a constituency

    "Go home and prepare for government" Remember David Steele said that, typical Lib Dems always talking about their muscles before they've been to the Gym

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  32. I was lucky enough to catch an interesting programme on Radio 4 the other day looking at the 'strains' in the union. The programme was PM at 5.00pm on Tuesday 12th. It had features throughout the show covering the political situation in each of the nations of the UK. First up was Northern Ireland. Here we had a DUP politician and an Alliance politician discussing the situation over there. Well, discussing it is going a bit far as the line kept going down on the Alliance person so it was left to the DUP guy to keep us up to date with all the goings on over there. It seems 'all good' to him - no problems there then. Oh - wait a minute, no SDLP or Sein Fein? Och, I suppose they were happy to have NI/Irish politics described by the DUP.

    After a wee bit of news to wash that down, next up came ourselves - yes, us in Scotland. Who could they get to describe the 'strains' and the politics of Scotland? Yup, it was Sarah Smith BBC correspondent followed by Douglas Alexander. Sarah was her usual impartial self but there was a wee hint, just a wee hint, that she detects some NO voters shifting to YES. Crikey! That was a bit of a surprise. Then came Douglas. He gave a lengthy interview trotting out the usual stuff we expect from him. Very informative stuff from the ex-politician and very insightful. Hey but wait a minute, no SNP or Greens? No one from the independence side - not one person from the government of Scotland? Ach weel, I am sure Douglas and Sarah covered most things for us all up here.

    Now a wee bit more news to get you recovering - enough time to get a wee scone and a cuppa tea for the rest of the show. First - a bit of background - BBC polling put Welsh independence support around 10% in last few years but it has been growing. Then we went over to Thomas Morgan BBC correspondent at the YES CYMRU march in Merthyr Tydfil doing a wee vox pop of the marchers 'Yes, independence is a great idea' - one was even a Plaid Cymru member. Great, but lets get real - lets ask the locals: 'too small, too poor, can't do it'. Hmmm, getting a bit negative now - wait - some clarity is required here - and its provided by none other than Steven Kinnock MP for Aberavon. Reasonable stuff from him - very reasonable - 'too small, too poor, can't do it'. Something to do with fiscal defecit and everyone leaving to go to England. Ach - weel - same as us then - never mind. Hey - wait a minute what about Carwyn Howell Jones saying "Wales is not too poor to be independent" last month. Ah but although labour - he is just the First Minister of the country. Fair enough.

    Still, there's just time to slap some butter on another scone before the bit about England - och, deary me, deary me - they've forgot to do a bit about England. I cannae understand it. I mean its the biggest of all the four nations so I didn't expect them to forget that. Och - silly me - its probably just that there's no strains doon there. Thank heavens one bit of the country is still stable.

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    1. Blawhard and pure uncohesive claptrap.

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    2. When has been Alexander described the SNP's pro EU union, internationalist, anti-brexit stance as 'narrow nationalism' while his own pro-brexit (better than indy!), hard British loyalist position wasn't nationalism, you could literally hear all the listeners wet themselves laughing.

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