Friday, February 15, 2019

Memo to Andrew Wilson: Brexit is happening right now. Did no-one tell you?

In a way it's rather helpful that Andrew Wilson has started to denigrate and mock some of his comrades in the Yes movement, because it shows up his pious calls for love and harmony and kindness for the facade that they always were.  Now perhaps we can discuss his views frankly.  Many of us defended him from attacks by the radical left after the Growth Commission reported, because we recognised that there is no coalition available for winning independence that doesn't include centrist voters.  But pragmatism isn't just about centrism, it's also about accepting the facts of the world around us.  What is Andrew's answer to the national crisis that faces Scotland, ie. that as things stand, we will be dragged out of the EU, the single market and the customs union in around six weeks, causing immense economic harm?  As far as I can see, his response is:

"Let's pretend it's not happening."

There can be no other explanation for Andrew's implicit call for the SNP's manifesto commitment for an indyref in the event of Brexit to be ripped up.  There can be no other explanation for his insistence upon the softest possible form of independence, maintaining maximum ties with the rest of these islands.  That cheerfully ignores the fact that an independent Scotland will be seeking membership of European institutions that England and Wales will almost certainly no longer be part of.  A degree of rupture will be inevitable - that's not necessarily a good thing, but it's a direct consequence of decisions taken by our neighbours, not by ourselves.

The tendency within the SNP that Andrew represents clearly never wanted the independence campaign to be linked to Brexit.  They wanted a UK-wide Remain vote, and then a gradual build-up to a second indyref in the distant future.  They were horrified by Nicola Sturgeon reacting to Brexit by committing to a swift independence referendum, and were relieved when she pulled back somewhat.  But what they don't seem to realise is that delaying an independence referendum hasn't made - and can't make - the crisis of Brexit vanish in a puff of smoke.  The option of SNP gradualism within Remain Britain no longer exists, because Britain really is leaving Europe, and it's doing so pretty much right now. 

Sticking our heads in the sand and basing our strategy on the conviction that "what is happening shouldn't be happening and should go away and stop ruining our plans" is not an especially promising recipe for success.

65 comments:

  1. Sorry James, but I don't have a clue who Andrew Wilson is? Google couldn't help me

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Gradualism, having worked so well in the past, may not be the correct target for these times.

      But there's a strand of thinking amongst those who are sure they are right that this is not the case.

      The latter might be right, but I think it'd all be better without the sneering about being 'sensible' that comes along with it. If it turns out they have urged over-caution, it won't look particularly sensible.

      I wish I could say it was otherwise but independence is NOT inevitable, and I think some of those urging us to be 'sensible' want to wait until it will be 'in case we lose again'. This will always be a risk.

      The best that can be done is to grab a mandate for it whenever you can and put it to the people. That's all. It's not even inevitable that we will be able to do that after this Holyrood Parliament and that's something the gradualists should be considering when they are being 'sensible'.

      Delete
    2. This is a comment.
      I totally agree with you. Things are getting perilously close to a meltdown and major change and the Government needs to take action before it's too late and London abolishes our Parliament.

      Delete
    3. "Sorry James, but I don't have a clue who Andrew Wilson is? Google couldn't help me"

      Seriously? "Andrew Wilson Scotland" gives pages of relevant stuff. Even with just "Andrew Wilson" it's like the third result

      Delete
  2. Abdrew wilson is the heid bummer responsible for the Growth Commission Report that almost all of us disagree with.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Who made up this term being dragged out of Europe? I appreciate the Scottish Nat sis are sore losers and verging on complete breakdowns on the EU, however chaps there was a UK election and over a million Scots voted to leave the fascist EU. It was sensible real Scots who carried the day.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Oh, I see where you're going wrong here. The million Scots who voted to leave the EU were heavily outvoted by the 1.7 million Scots who voted to remain in the EU. In other words, Scotland chose to remain in the EU, and if that wish is not respected, Scotland will be "dragged out". Hope this helps.

      Delete
    2. Are you trying young James to say it was solely a Scottish referendum just like the 2014 Scottish referendum which you lost? It was a UK referendum and if you loved sucking up the erses of the EU so much then your Nat si party should have boycotted the referendum. If you take part then you must accept the result.

      Delete
    3. Toffee-nosed Middle-class EdinburgherFebruary 15, 2019 at 8:05 PM

      Cheers, Cordelia! Pour yourself another double of that delicious broccoli brandy.

      Delete
    4. GWC isn't strictly wrong here. However, his argument can only work if he believes that Scotland is not a distinct polity (wrong, since even the current Loyalist cabal running Westminster voted unanimously in favour of the Claim Of Right) or if he wants to argue that it shouldn't be (which is legitimate, but then you have to wonder why he calls himself a Scot or doesn't argue for the abolition of a Scottish rugby team, football team, football league etc.) Those are the options. If you oppose a second independence referendum at this stage of the game, you are anti-Scotland and/or anti-democracy. There's no way around that.

      Delete
    5. Nothing the UK government does is 'forced' upon Scotland as long as Scotland is free to vote for independence at any time it chooses (with England willing to recognise that).

      Brexit however, does perfectly highlight how the UK is not a union of equal partners in any way, but simply a greater England in terms of how political decisions are made. A vote against independence is a vote to accept that.

      Delete
    6. "Nothing is forced upon Scotland as long as Scotland is free to vote for independence if it has permission from England..." You might want to look up the definition of 'free'.

      Delete
    7. A section 30 technically isn't permission if it is automatically granted; then it is merely a legal procedure to ensure everything is in accordance with the law. It might feel like an affront (I certainly see it that way), but Scots have chosen this situation. They saw the procedure ahead of 2014 and they voted to stay in the UK. They voted for all this. Endorsed it. Like it or not, that's what happened.

      As for more recent the 'now is not the time'. May deftly body swerved the initial move by the Scottish government by calling a UK General election. The UK government Sturgeon and co wanted to initiate a new Section 30 then ceased to exist. This meant the Scottish government would now need to approach the new UK administration who won the 2017 election; something they decided not to do after losing a lot of seats in said election.

      So, as far as I can see, we are still free to leave, it's just about political timing. Don't get me wrong though, I don't trust Westminster at all and I'm watching them very closely. If you want fascism to rise in the UK, ending democracy, then brexit is absolutely perfect for this. Extreme right and an trashed economy are the two main ingredients.

      So, the Scottish government should not wait too long.

      Delete
  4. Young James, my Mrs voted remain so when we leave does that mean she is being dragged out and I am not?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why do you stay with a woman who wants to keep you in the "fascist EU"? Divorce her!

      Delete
    2. Toffee-nosed Middle-class EdinburgherFebruary 15, 2019 at 9:45 PM

      Congratulations, Cordelia, on your same-sex marriage. I salute you! Now, how about cutting back on the drinking?

      Delete
    3. She is still a good ride young James and that has more importance than the EU.

      Delete
  5. I am sure there is a good reason why folk like Andrew Wilson, who don’t really appear to want independence, are members of the SNP. I just can’t think of it.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Scottish government are to follow a detoxification programme similar to the Westminster government regarding the Islamic State. The Scottish Government will advise Scots that the Scottish Saltire is our National Standard and not the Irish Tricolour or the Islamic State or Palestinian rags. 29 March 2019 here we go.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I think the London girl who joined Islamic State and opened her legs for a beardy towel-head should be flown 1st class to Blighty and given an apartment in Windsor

    ReplyDelete
  8. Renewable energy contracts being issued out to Johnie Foreigner. Scottish workforce not benefiting. Tartan Tories supporting foreign businesses and bumping their gums over brexit.

    ReplyDelete
  9. New railway contracts handed over to a bunch of Eyeties. Holidays in Italy all round for the Nat si "government" and there pals and free macaroni for life.

    ReplyDelete
  10. The Italian boy who did not know the difference between incest and arson, he set his sister on fire.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. More fun with Cordelia and its lunchtime of booze.
      The screams of impotent rage get funnier every day.

      Delete
  11. Why does anybody on this forum, especially you James, engage with GWC? It's clear he is a bitter twisted grade A arsehole.
    Let him post away to his heart's content but just ignore him ffs,

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. She calls herself by a variety of names, usually identifiable but not always. She doesn't believe a word she says, it's all just her wind-up fun.

      Delete
    2. And as a result, we entertain ourselves by laughing at its bizarre ultra-right-wing misogynist ramblings.

      Delete
    3. One of my favourites is from last week when she claimed to be a lesbian married to a Remain voting woman. Too much Kwiksave vodka.

      Delete
  12. It was exactly these overly-gradualist, preserve-the-current-power-relations-even-though-they're-in-crisis attitudes that made leftists like me hate the Growth Commission. This is just the same logic applied to constitutional matters.

    ReplyDelete
  13. In total agreement with every word....

    ReplyDelete
  14. The claim of rights apply to both Scotland and England, laws pertaining to Scotland, or to England, before the signing of the Treaty of Union, stay with these countries. This was confirmed when passed unanimously inJuly 2018.

    ReplyDelete
  15. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Frustrating as it is, there is an obvious reason why the FM has delayed calling the referendum.

    T May is a Nutcase. A raving mental windowlicking fruitloop. She said she'd do anything in her powers to keep Scotland in chains and she clearly means it. If that meant revoking article 50 and staying in the EU to thwart the Yes Campaign then she's made enough to do it.

    That's the pretty obvious reason why we can't have a referendum called until the FkedUK has actually left the EU.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I tend to agree. The 2017 GE was aimed at bodyswerving the iref too. The hope was that the SNP would take a hit, putting them on the back foot. Also that the Tories would have enough MPs to safely ignore the ERG, so allowing the softest of brexits, which in turn might put the SNP back even further.

      Delete
  17. In other news that is an interesting story in the glasgow herlad.

    Officials block release of Nicola Sturgeon letter. A letter from the FM to leslie evens. Clearly not the FM doing the blocking so we have to assume it is the vile creature who has been proven in court to have a casual disregard to the law, due process, Human Rights and Scot's Law, who blocked publication.

    Can somebody get it through the thick feminist skull of NS that all women are not her friends, all women are not on her side, all women are not innocent, all women do not deserve protection from punishment.

    That evans bint is at the centre of the trannyfanny take-over of equality laws. She is at the centre of the faked accusations against the previous FM. She is clearly operating to destroy our government so why has she not been booted back to the sewer of london where she belongs.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anon, do you remember the old TV progamme the Twilight Zone? I think you have entered it. And she Evans appears to have originated in NI. Mibbie she and Billy Mitchell are flute blawers.

      Delete
    2. Cordelia wasn't given permission to mock unionism's latest poster boy. No doubt it will be punished in due course, and it will take masochistic pleasure in it.

      Delete
  18. The moment the Labour party in Scotland breaks is the moment indy becomes effectively inevitable. And brexit is breaking it.

    Some Labour MSPs voted Yes last time, but kept quiet. That won't happen this time. It's why we have the likes of Murray Foote and the Big Yin crossing the floor.

    This time there will be real Labour for indy (+the EU/EEA) in the Holyrood Chamber. That will give an iScotland its reds, yellows and greens. It will just need its own blues to complete the spectrum; these will come post indy though most likely.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Perhaps they are crossing the floor for personal financial reasons because they could get the order of the boot. However they may genuinely have a conscience. One thing that is certain is whatever the outcome the working classes will remain in the same shitholes.
      We need to leave the EU and get rid of unnecessary politicians. Moreso the devolved institutions and the Lords.

      Delete
    2. "We need to leave the EU and get rid of unnecessary politicians"

      You would prefer we are run by 'unelected bureaucrats'?

      Someone has to run the country.

      I say we dump all politicians that didn't stand for election in Scotland. Only let Scots politicians make decisions for Scotland at the behest of the Scottish people.

      Delete
    3. Cut their numbers in half and I would consider it.

      Delete
    4. Or maybe Cordelia would prefer that we change the system altogether. Its ravings certainly lean toward advocacy of a leader principle.

      Delete
  19. I see flybmi has gone into administration, citing brexit as a major factor.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47267901

    "Current trading and future prospects have also been seriously affected by the uncertainty created by the Brexit process, which has led to our inability to secure valuable flying contracts in Europe."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The inability of management to manage was the cause. Brexit is an excuse as it is for everything. I have bleeding piles it must be brexit.

      Delete
    2. Or, I can't get this effing corkscrew out the bottle. Must be Brexit fault.

      Delete
    3. When Cordelia's preciousss blue passport isn't delivered because it can't be imported from France, whose fault will that be?

      Delete
  20. Beeg Gertrude from 10 Mark Alley HeidelbergFebruary 17, 2019 at 1:53 AM

    I vant a veally hard brexit and at least acht inches. Must be a beeg German bratwurst, you Shotten men are so ve and limp with your boozing habits.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cordelia sharing entirely too much about its bizarre lusts again. Flute Band Boy must be ignoring its emails.

      Delete
  21. "Some Labour MSPs voted Yes last time, but kept quiet. "


    Interesting, how do you know this?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I was wondering that too.

      Delete
    2. I recall a couple of stories about this (people confiding). Statistically it would be expected. I mean it's not as if we don't know any (historically) Labour people that voted Yes, like e.g. Dennis Canavan, Charles Gray (former leader of Strathclyde council), Jim Sillars (:-), councillors and assorted English/Welsh Labour politicians off the top of my head. Even some Tories voted Yes, including a former MSP.

      https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-independence-ex-tory-msp-backing-yes-1-3242124

      Up to ~1/3 of Labour voters voted Yes from polling, so it would be statistically highly improbable that at least 1 of 37 MSPs (at the time, 24 now) didn't vote Yes, even with extreme, Stalinist type vetting (which historically failed to spot Canavan etc). It's not as if it would directly cost them their seat or anything; they sit in the Scottish parliament. Sitting Labour MPs are a different matter. Of course the career of a Labour MSP could be in trouble if they advocated indy openly given the firm party line on the stance. Brexit and the take over by Corbyn's English nationalists must be severely testing this though.

      So ok, not guaranteed, but it is extraordinarily unlikely at least a few didn't quietly vote Yes as per the reports I recall.

      Lab + Libs devolution being trashed + brexit is a disaster for the party. And it would not be solved by Corbyn at the helm. He would also have to trash devolution to secure any new trade deals, that or give e.g. a Holyrood government led by the SNP a full veto over these. England would never accept that, never electing Labour if that was to happen.

      The UK can't survive brexit; the new constitutional set-up we have developed over the past 2 decades (and which has massive support in the devolved nations) is totally incompatible with it.

      The N. Ireland backstop is just the aperitif of the constitutional crisis. Only just warming up.

      If the UK is to leave the single market, then Lab+Lib’s devolution baby as we know it has to end / be massively rolled back, by whoever is in charge in London; Labour or Tory. That or we become a real one nation one vote union like the EU, where e.g. Scotland and Wales can veto England. Never going to happen....

      Delete
    3. If we take the most recent (more 'pro-no'), panelbase poll, 55% of Labour 2017 voters said Scottish indy would be better than 'no deal' while 46% said they thought it was better than a negotiated 'deal'.

      So, Labour voters (and likely a good few elected politicians) will carry iref2.

      They want to be in the EU in large majority (74%), while brexit destroys devolution; Labour's (+Libs) alternative to indy (and the direct london rule they are against).

      Delete
  22. Looks like Ian Murray Labour is in the same sewer as the Nat sis.
    Strange how the Nat sis were demonstrating outside the BBC Scotland
    during 2014 but are now best pals with the anti brexit BBC.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. And that's Cordelia back on the lash before off-sales open for the day.
      That Toilet Duck it held in reserve must be helping that screeching hangover.

      Delete
    2. I really love it that you hate the BBC GWC.

      This is the UK coming to an end; brit nats attacking the very foundations of the British state while Scot nats look on, bemused.

      Delete
    3. How do you conclude I hate the BBC? You Nat sis want to do away with it.

      Delete
    4. So you like and trust the 'Anti-brexit BBC'?

      I'd like that people in Scotland are not forced to pay for it on on pain of fines or being sent to 'UKSSR' gulags, yes. I couldn't give a rat's erse if folk want to subscribe or it's paid for by advertising.

      I'm Scottish, so it's not the national broadcaster of my nation. I don't identify as british, so it can never be my broadcaster. It's the 'British' national broadcaster; your national broadcaster.

      Delete
    5. There not, if you don't want to pay for it don't use it. Its a choice people have to make, one i'm assuming you have made.

      If you do choose to use it then obviously you have to pay, would be silly to expect otherwise.

      Delete
    6. You have strange definition of 'choice'.

      https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/detection-and-penalties-top5

      Not covered by a TV Licence? You are breaking the law if you:
      - watch or record programmes as they're being shown on TV or live on an online TV service, or
      - download or watch BBC programmes on iPlayer – live, catch up or on demand.

      This applies to any device or provider you use, including a TV, desktop computer, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, games console, digital box or DVD/Blu-Ray/VHS recorder.

      You could be prosecuted if we find that you have been watching, recording or downloading programmes illegally. The maximum penalty is a £1,000* fine plus any legal costs and/or compensation you may be ordered to pay.


      ---

      Even if you never, ever watch the BBC, you need to pay for the BBC on pain of a fine. If you don't pay the fine, you could end up being jailed potentially. Technincally, the fines are 'political' in the sense people who are against the BBC for political reasons can be fined for this view, i.e. because they refuse to pay for state propoganda.

      Delete
    7. However you do not need a TV licence if you only watch content after it's been shown on television – UNLESS it's on iPlayer. TV programmes downloaded or streamed after broadcast on other catch-up services are fine without one though.

      It's 2019 every major channel has a catch up channel or on demand service. 10 years ago I could get your argument but not now, perfectly possible to watch mainstream TV without a licence.

      Delete
    8. The BBC do excellent drama, documentaries, historical, World news and all without adverts. Even Neil Oliver does excellent programmes. You are a Nat si fanatic skier and that is your weak spot.

      Delete
    9. So what you are saying is that the British nationalist Broadcasting Corportation stasi will be after me if e.g. my daughter watches live tennis on the Amazon fire stick? A service we pay for already by subscription?

      Delete
    10. Yes, she is breaking the law. Do you think people should break the law? It's also in their T&Cs that she needs a licence to watch live sport etc.

      But cant tell by your tone that this is nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of that, its the fact its the BBC. If it was STV post Indy with exactly the same rules you would not be making this fuss.

      Delete