Tuesday, March 7, 2017

Sillars v Sillars

Jim Sillars, 2014 : On 18th September, between the hours of 7am and 10pm, absolute sovereign power will lie in the hands of the Scottish people. They have to decide whether to keep it, or give it away to where their minority status makes them permanently powerless and vulnerable.

Jim Sillars, 2018 : I've decided to give my absolute sovereign power back to London, because I'm anti-EU and I cannot accept the Scottish people's overwhelming majority decision to remain in Europe.  If Brexit needs to be imposed on Scotland by the votes of another country, so be it.  Getting out of the EU is more important to me than national sovereignty.

That sounds like a catty point, but it could hardly be more fundamental.  If you claim to believe in independence because you think the Scottish people's will should hold sway, even when it differs from an election result in England and Wales, then it follows that you must abide by majority decisions in Scotland even when your own personal views are more in line with Westminster.  If you don't do that, it could be argued that your commitment to sovereignty is every bit as shallow as the "ninety-minute patriotism" you once accused some of your fellow Scots of.

80 comments:

  1. Sillars is an idiot. He can't help but view the whole of Scotland's constitutional debate through the prism of his personal grudge match with Salmond. Remember when Salmond and Sturgeon appeared alongside Sillars a few days before the 2014 referendum? How did he show unity in response? By making his ridiculous (and obvious attempt at sabotage) comments about "a day of reckoning" for business opposed to independence. He is not simply a nuisance, he is a malevolent presence around the cause of sovereignty. Unionist journalists call on him for this very reason.

    I will not be at all surprised if he supports the No campaign next time. And probably because he fears that Salmond/Sturgeon will win, and his ego cannot countenance the prospect.

    In fact we should view it as a very promising sign of probable success for the next referendum when Jim Sillaes comes out against independence.

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    1. By making his ridiculous (and obvious attempt at sabotage) comments about "a day of reckoning" for business opposed to independence.

      In fairness, that wasn't what he said, but how the media presented it. I suppose it could still have been deliberate on his part, though.

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    2. Spot on both you and James.My opinion over Sillars and I've said this for over 30 years,Sillars left one party went to another never got being the boss left that party and came to us the SNP,never got the top job HE believed he was entitled to so set about spoiling it for the party by moaning and groaning twisting all that he could.Jim (never got to be boss)Sillars ya boo,sour grapes never went this far with anybody else he just made wine from them and keeps drinking it,he could have been a contender!

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    3. I agree.

      I regret anyone who moves from YES to No, especially for such as a hypocritical reason as "I believe in Scottish self-determination... until such time as the Scots self-determine in a way I don't approve, then I love Empire 2.0", however, Sillars sometimes during indyref1 had a negative effect from his more extreme quotes being lept on by media to his very weak debating skills (I remember George Galloway dismantling Sillars in one televised debated with arguments that most seasoned yes-debaters should have easily knocked right back ie look how easily Nicola destroyed Carmichael and Lamont in debates that were taking place around the same time and about similar issues. Sillars should have stepped aside that night for someone like Tommy Sheridan, Patrick Harvie, Angus Robertson, to name a few who have far more charisma and debating prowess).

      So if Sillars wants to lead the "Yessers for No" campaign come indyref2 it'll be unfortunate, but its not like we are losing any of the Yes campaigns hard hitters.

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  2. As far as I am aware there has been no Poll in Scotland asking Remainers whether they support BREXIT .A great pity because all Remainers I know now support BREXIT.They also oppose Independence.

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    1. You can't get out much. You should really.

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    2. Indeed.

      I don't know a single person who has moved in favour of Brexit even slightly.

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    3. This chart of survey results here shows a swing from "Unionist remainer" to "Unionist brexiter".

      https://twitter.com/naebD/status/831850170254032897

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  3. This would be the same Jim Sillars who stood for Westminster in 1992 under the slogan "SNP - Independence in Europe"?

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    1. Apparently.

      Very odd behaviour...

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    2. It was devised by him.

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  4. Glasgow Working Class 2March 8, 2017 at 1:34 AM

    Sillars like the Nat sis got it wrong politically. That is the difference between winning and losing.
    They did manage to fool the working classes but the mob get their revenge eventually.

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    1. The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

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  5. The man is a complete divot!

    The EU doesn't rule anyone, it does useful stuff for its members and their citizens, cheaply and efficiently on the whole.

    Unlike the rapacious imperial power of which the UK is the fag end, the EU is founded on the principal of promoting peace and co-operation. It's not perfect, but it has done a pretty good job so far.

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  6. James your being unfair totally on Jim. He and his late wife Margo were stalwarts for the Independence campaign over the years and in fact much more respected across both sides of the argument than many today. Alex Salmond would do well to take a leaf out of his book and might then garner a majority for independence than currently exists. More importantly I say you're being unfair as Jim like a lot of independence supporters DO NOT want kid on independence I.e Independence from U.K. but ruled from Brussels. Jim wants an independent Scotland out of the EU and that is why Nicola Sturgeon putting her pitch for independence on being part of the EU is just not going to work. It's splitting the Yes Vote quite considerably. Did you voted Leave or Remain James?

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    1. Robert, this is really simple - if he's not planning to vote Yes, he's no longer an independence supporter. If you want there to be any chance whatever of an "independent Scotland out of the EU", first of all you need to vote for an independent Scotland. And yes, in the current circumstances, that means accepting that you might never leave the EU.

      I don't take the view that the chances of a third referendum if we vote No again are non-existent (although a lot of people do take that view), but how the hell is abstaining in an independence referendum supposed to further the cause of Scottish sovereignty? This is quite literally ridiculous.

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    2. I'll gently suggest, Robert, that you don't understand how the EU works. It doesn't 'rule' anyone; it's a bloc formed of independent states which work together on a whole range of issues. Do you think that the other 27 EU members feel like they are "ruled from Brussels?" Of course they don't.

      Further, polling evidence (the latest Wings poll for example) already shows that there is a majority for independence, taking together those who favour being within or outwith the EU.

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    3. No-one is ruled from Brussels, except the Belgians!

      The EU is a members club providing facilities and services to its members and their citizens.

      Even if you never travel beyond the end of your street, you benefit from the EU and its regulations which protect you from sharp employment practices and shoddy goods.

      Unlike the imperial remnant that is the UK,the EU is rooted in a desire to promote peace and co-operation, and whilst it's far from perfect it has done a pretty good job so far.

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  7. those are my thoughts also, James.

    Sillars is so embittered with his failure in the SNP leadership campaign,that he would rather "sup wi' the Devil" than support the cause.

    I can sum the man up no better than to use the well kent expression "he's got mair faces than the toun clock".

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    1. Sillars is so embittered with his failure in the SNP leadership campaign,that he would rather "sup wi' the Devil" than support the cause.

      Then why did he campaign for Yes last time?

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    2. after his statement that "he would rather remain within the (UK) Union, than be Independent but controlled by Brussels" as stated in the article that James penned.
      I would suggest you address that question to Mr Sillars himself ... as I would dearly like a detailed explanation of that one myself.

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  8. A quote from Jim Sillars in 2018 but its still only 2017 or have I lost a year...?

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    1. You might have missed the point of the article there.

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  9. Jim Sillars unionist! There is a bed in ward 13 for this loony. He doesn't respect what Scots voted for and that was staying in the EU. It's like me saying I disagree with the Queen remaining head of state post indi. So I will chuck my toys out and vote to no.

    Fundamentalist maniac sums him up. He can go and fuck himself. It shows how narrow minded a man he is. We could have a vote post indi about being in the EU. If we vote to stay does he want London to come back and take Scotland back. It's just straight out of the Kezia school of doublethink.

    Democracy only works collectively Jim.

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    1. whatever you think of J.Sillars no need to bring insult into it.

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    2. Anonymous is as thick as shite and does not realise it was a UK vote. Your typical fascist.

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    3. The poster above is a far-right racist tory sockpuppetMarch 8, 2017 at 8:34 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

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  10. In 2014, Sillars kept bringing up the comment that "dark forces" were at work and referred to British Security Services (MI5) attempting to cause division.

    I believe that Sillers was displacing the truth and that he is in fact a placeman for the Security Services, there to cause division as directed by his handlers.

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    1. That's nice.

      I recommend Costco tinfoil. Not only do you get bulk packs at a good price, but it's 15% thicker than standard supermarket brands, stopping more mind control rays than competing products.

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  11. I think he's Nicolas surgeons trojan lilhorse-gets too infiltrate the no bunker lol

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  12. His cunning plan is to ensure Scotland is removed enough from the EU that the best we can hope for is EFTA membership. Now that later might actually be in our best interests and we've only been asked a simple In/Out question. But given the UK as a whole will be taken out of the EU unless Westminster wakes up to reality there's nothing to prevent an independent Scotland exiting at a later date if needs be?

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  13. If Scotland votes yes or no in a possible indyref2,surely jim would feel he's swallowed a bitter pill

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  14. I worked in the campaign to win the Govan seat for Jim Sillars.He was a first class MP and a man I had a lot of respect for.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion however his now seems to be that rule from Westminster is better than being part of the EU.
    He should at least give Scotland a chance in the EU.We have never been members in our own right.
    I honestly can't see him sharing a platform with right wingers like Davidson , Fraser or Mundell who will no doubt be blaming foreigners and the SNP for all the woes of the world.However he is giving them a stick to beat the YES campaign with.

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    1. Why fight for independence for decades and hand it away?

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    2. Being a member of the EU is something independent countries can do, to benefit from all the many benefits it provides.

      I'm happy to be as independent as France or Finland.

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    3. So not independent then.

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    4. The poster above is a far-right racist tory sockpuppetMarch 8, 2017 at 8:32 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

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  15. Glesga fluteblowerMarch 8, 2017 at 10:53 AM

    Sillars is being honest unlike most of the Nat sis who have no time for Royalty or NATO but as a ploy voted for their retention to attempt to con Unionists during the Jock referendum campaign. Sillars is probably one of the very few socialists in this Tartan Tory shower of shit.
    Whens the referendum then shitheads?

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    1. The poster above is a far-right racist tory sockpuppetMarch 8, 2017 at 8:33 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

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  16. Glesga fluteblowerMarch 8, 2017 at 11:31 AM

    Ride the goat No surrender Nat sis Watp GSTQ

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  17. Sillars'interventions in Indyref2 debate are unhelpful. What's he going to do? Campaign against Indy in EU with The Red and Blue YOONS? If Sillars believes 15 yrs of Tory rule is better than Indy in EU, he should go and joinup with the rest of the nitwits and Kezia.

    What IS Sillars' game? He's now just an irrelevant and useless old bugger.

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  18. I've thought for a while (decades) that Sillars hated the EU above all else, never quite worked out why.

    If you think about it in those terms then support for the SNP/indy when it was likely we'd be (initially) outside the EU was his best option.

    Now he gets his wish to be out of the EU (courtesy of E&W) and what do the damn nats do? Try to drag him back in.

    Its the only thing which makes sense about his behaviour in recent years (last 10-15).

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  19. Don't care about Sillars. Yesterday's person.

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  20. We are going to need a lot of friends to fend off a hostile Southern neighbour after independence and being part of the family of European nations would fit that bill.
    Our Southern neighbour's diplomacy has been based on carrying a big stick and make no mistake they will want to use that against us rebellious Scots who have diminished their perceived self importance.
    Perhaps Jim still thinks we are dealing with reasonable,rational people in London who would just accept our independence vote.
    We aren't and without the threat of an even bigger stick,they won't.

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    1. Laugh a minute with you. Maybe a military alliance with your new EU pals against England.

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    2. We will be all the way with trump and you jocko fash Nat sis will be on your own with the EU

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    3. Glasgow Working Class 2March 8, 2017 at 7:42 PM

      Impersonator will you dig a tunnel fae Leith tae Amsterdam? You will not use the English roads or the Tunnel.

      Delete
    4. The poster above is a far-right racist tory sockpuppetMarch 8, 2017 at 8:33 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

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    5. Yawn, Nazi scumbag.

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    6. Tory Racist Class 2March 8, 2017 at 11:29 PM

      thick racist tory twat

      Delete
  21. £350 million handed to Scotland from the English taxpayer and not a bit of gratitude from the greedy Scottish MP'S who are coining it in and laughing at the Scottish people.
    Cut the Scottish MSP'S by half and half the emissions.

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    1. You're a fool. Scottish government budget is £2.9 billion lower than what it was in 2007. Stop reading the daily mail!

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    2. Not me the fool. If Scotland wants more revenue then they can tax the Scots more. Do you think the EU will give you haunoots

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    3. The poster above is a far-right racist tory sockpuppetMarch 8, 2017 at 8:36 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

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    4. Yawn, Nat si loser.

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    5. Tory Twat Sockpuppet Class 2March 8, 2017 at 11:28 PM

      shit for brains tory twat

      Delete
  22. Scottish MSP'S need reduced by at least a half. Millions saved for public services. A dozen Jock Mps at Westminster would suffice. Millions saved for public services.
    MEP'S to be withdrawn. Millions saved for public services. H of L shut down. Millions saved for public services.

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    1. Fewer than a third of Tory activists believe that an independent Scotland would cause “serious damage” to the rest of the UK, a new poll has found.

      More than two-thirds believe that a break-away would be either positive, have no real significant impact on England, Wales and Northern Ireland or would be ‘manageable’.

      And 29% of the Conservative grassroots members would actually welcome Scots independence because it would end “unreasonable demands on England to provide ever greater financial and political concessions” to Holyrood.

      We love you Jockland Better together and all that old chum.

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    2. Nat si impersonator and master of the polls. Over two million voted for the Union...... You fascists need to take on board democracy old chum.
      Do you think the EU will subsidise Jokeland?

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    3. Though Scotland is estimated to have the largest oil reserves in the E.U., they're seriously dedicated to renewables. In fact, renewables contribute about half of Scotland's electricity — dwarfing both nuclear (33%) and fossil fuels (28%)!

      Scotland's government plans to generate the equivalent of 100% of its electricity needs through renewables by 2020.

      Wind makes up most of Scotland's renewables, but they're also using wave and tidal energy, as well as hydroelectric.

      Your skint Jocko Fash Nat sis get on your bendeded knees and beg glorious England for a handout

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    4. You joke nat sis generate enough wind to light up every house from Lands End tae Wick.

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    5. Nigel Farage and his £ 3 Million in Expenses claimsMarch 9, 2017 at 12:52 AM

      piss off twit

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    6. Dae away wie excess politiciansMarch 9, 2017 at 1:52 AM

      Farage may well have ended the expenses claims all over the EU corrupt project if all goes well.
      More money to be invested in the people and not the Mafia.

      Delete
    7. The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

      Delete
  23. Good to see the SNP infighting!

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    1. Good to see incompetent tory twits out of their depthMarch 8, 2017 at 11:26 PM

      Christopher Hope‏Verified account @christopherhope 9 hours ago

      This feels like it is turning into the worst since George Osborne's #omnishambles Budget in 2012 #Budget2017

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working Class 2March 9, 2017 at 12:00 AM

      Ending free movement of people from the European Union is unlikely to reduce immigration to Britain or to offer a quick fix to low wages, the House of Lords EU committee says in a report published on Monday.
      The report recommends offering preferential treatment to EU migrants after Brexit, rather than extending the work permit system currently applied to non-EU citizens who wish to work in Britain.
      It argues that, since the majority of migrants coming to Britain are from outside the EU, controlling immigration from the EU would have a limited effect on the overall number.

      Better Together your too wee too poor and too stupid
      WATP GSTQ

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    3. Up Yer Kilt JimmyMarch 9, 2017 at 12:24 AM

      England may end free movement of Jocks from parochial Scotland to England.
      Honest guv I voted tae remain. Aye right Jock fuck aff back tae yer shithole you created.

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    4. The poster above is a far-right racist tory sockpuppetMarch 9, 2017 at 12:51 AM

      shit for brains racist tory twit has hissy fit

      You'd need a heart of stone not to laugh

      LOL

      Delete
    5. Wee ferry fae Glesga Merchant CityMarch 9, 2017 at 1:16 AM

      The poster above is a far right Tartan Tory anti English joke of the North welfare case.

      Delete
    6. The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

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  24. It is clear the Jock Nat sis are a right wing bunch of soor grapes. To attack Sillars who is a socialist shows them for what they are. However Sillars has had his day and should join the BBC and expose the Nat si money grabbing scum.

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    1. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haMarch 9, 2017 at 12:52 AM

      Christopher Hope‏Verified account @christopherhope 12 hours ago

      This feels like it is turning into the worst since George Osborne's #omnishambles Budget in 2012 #Budget2017

      Delete
  25. Finnieston FerryMarch 9, 2017 at 1:03 AM

    It must have been humiliating for Corbyn and Nat si Angus Robertson being taken tae ra cleaners by a wummin Mrs May at PMQ's yesterday.
    Robertson going on about immigrants and ignoring Scotland. Whit a hand job he is.

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    1. Finnieston FerryMarch 9, 2017 at 5:10 AM

      “Tories jeering and cheering when the forecast for people’s income is that it is likely to drop by £2,000,
      and that 80,000 people may lose their jobs in Scotland as a result of the hard Tory Brexit plan of the Prime Minister.

      Does the Prime Minister believe this is a price worth paying for her Little Britain Brexit?”

      Of course its a price worth paying if it stuffs the Jocko Fash Nat sis and save the enduring benevolent union of england and other regions

      Delete
  26. What is this man problem, lets get indpendence then talk about europe and make your case for not joining then, for F*ck sake shut your mouth and get on the Indepence goal first, put your personal views to one side for Scotland achieve her important goal Independence. I used to like this guy now I would egnore him. I am so disapointed with this man.

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    1. Fine for some, but not for all.

      I'm the opposite of Jim Sillars, I was No/Remain. EU membership matters to me, a lot. If you're offering me the choice between an Independent Scotland that will definitely be in Europe (or at least make best efforts to join) and a UK Scotland that is out, then you have a good chance of getting my vote.

      If you're offering an Independent Scotland that might join Europe but might not, depends, we'll see later, then that's not really good enough.

      Others will feel differently, I'm sure. I'll take the EU over the UK, but not on a half promise.

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    2. Glesga bum chumsMarch 9, 2017 at 9:06 PM

      Just pull yer pants up chum and get a new partner who will not disappoint.

      Delete