Wednesday, February 1, 2017

A final response to Kevin Williamson

So two things happened yesterday as a result of Kevin Williamson's extraordinary rant about so-called 'tactical voting' on Sunday.  Firstly, a few people on Twitter commented that there needed to be some sort of 'truce' on the issue with a second indyref potentially on the horizon, and secondly, Williamson just carried on ranting at people, including myself.  Having reflected on this quite a bit, what I've decided to do is respond to his latest diatribe (because unsurprisingly he tried to shift the goalposts yet again), and then I'm going to 'mute' both him and another individual on Twitter, and do my utmost never to engage with them on social media again, or at least not this side of Indyref 2.  I'm going to do that for my own sanity as much as anything else, because it's basically quite a nasty trolling effort that a number of us have found ourselves on the wrong end of, and the fact that the people responsible for it are leading lights within the pro-indy new media doesn't alter our need to take the basic steps to protect ourselves and to make sure that our quality of life isn't adversely affected by what they're doing.  (And, yes, from my own perspective it really is getting to that stage.)

If we strip away all the content-free scorn and mockery from Kevin (his main tactic yesterday was to brush off each and every reasonable point with the bizarre catch-all retort "Dream on, chum, this is Scotland"), the only substantive point he seemed to be making was that it didn't matter that John Curtice has concluded that tactical voting cost the SNP their overall majority, because even if the SNP had reached the magic figure of 65, they would somehow have been magically forced by the unionist parties into putting up one of their own number as Presiding Officer, and would thus have lost the majority straight away and been left in a 64-64 deadlock with the opposition parties.  Moreover, he argued that unless we could definitively prove that he was wrong about that, it meant that he wasn't wrong.  This in turn meant that he was justified in saying on Sunday that tactical voting did not harm the SNP or cost them their overall majority, and that he was therefore owed an apology for the characterisation of that claim as a Trump-style "alternative fact".

There's just one little tiny snag here - none of this bears any resemblance whatever to the claim Kevin actually made on Sunday, or to what I characterised as an "alternative fact".  What he actually claimed was that tactical voting had rescued the pro-independence majority, and that without it we would not currently have the parliamentary arithmetic to call a second independence referendum.  Here's a reminder of his exact words -

"Vindication!  If it wasn't for us lot who called #2ndVoteGreen wouldn't be a maj for #indyref2.  Thanks + apologies due to Greens, Bella, et al."

"if it wasn't for us indy supporters who split our votes there'd be NO majority for Indyref2"

"Luckily enough people ignored you otherwise there'd be NO majority for indyref2"

There was no room for ambiguity in those statements.  He was not making a restrained and limited argument that tactical voting did not technically cost the SNP their overall majority. He was very specifically asserting that tactical voting was responsible for securing a pro-independence majority.  That was a downright lie.  I called it out as a lie, and I make no apology whatever for calling it out as a lie.  If John Curtice was quoted/paraphrased accurately by the Sunday Herald, his conclusion was that there would have been a 67-62 pro-independence majority if tactical voting had not occurred.  Self-evidently, the choice of Presiding Officer would have made no difference to that arithmetic - even if the PO had come from either the SNP or the Greens, there would still have been a 66-62 pro-indy majority.

It's supremely ironic that having been so outraged by the entirely justified "alternative fact" characterisation, Kevin's next step was straight out of the Trump playbook.  Instead of admitting that his claim was inaccurate (or coming up with new evidence to establish that it was correct after all), he pretended that he hadn't made the claim in the first place, and that he had actually said something entirely different.  Apparently he hopes that no-one is going to notice or double-check.  Yes, folks, we are well and truly into "alternative facts" territory here, and we might as well call a spade a spade.

However, let's humour Kevin just for a moment and play along with the charade that he only made the more modest claim that he is now pretending to have made.  Is it true that 65 seats wouldn't 'really' have been an SNP majority, and that the SNP would have been forced to put someone forward as Presiding Officer?  In a word, no.  In that circumstance, the party leadership would have been absolutely determined to ensure that the PO came from the opposition benches, thus preserving their slim majority.  Although they wouldn't have been able to literally prevent an SNP MSP from being nominated for the position, it's highly unlikely that would have happened (any ambitious MSP with a credible chance would likely have been offered a government job anyway), but even if it had happened, there would have been no difficulty at all in preventing that person from being elected.

That means Kevin's entire case hinges on the assumption that every single one of the 64 opposition MSPs would have declined to put themselves forward for the job.  Frankly, that beggars belief.  The opposition benches are full to bursting with ambitious people whose party leaderships wouldn't have been able to buy them off with government positions, or even with the realistic hope of government positions in the medium-to-long term.  Of course someone would have come forward.  If they hadn't, the result would have been a re-run of the election, and there's no question at all as to who would have received the blame for that.  Having held the position of Presiding Officer for two of the previous four parliaments, the onus was scarcely on the SNP to step up to the plate again (and especially not after the open discontent on the Labour benches about not being given their "turn" in 2011 when Tricia Marwick was elected).

It's also worth making the point that even if Kevin is right that the SNP would have acted irrationally by electing one of their own number as Presiding Officer, it would still be categorically untrue for him to claim that the SNP were "not harmed" by tactical voting.  Without it, they would not have been reduced to a minority government (64-64 is deadlock rather than a minority), and there would have been a pro-independence Presiding Officer.  In two very concrete ways, then, Kevin's wildly implausible scenario would still have left the SNP in a better position than they currently find themselves as a result of the tactical voting debacle.

*  *  *

OK.  What you've just read was my very last response to Kevin or to anyone else from Bella on this subject.  If they try to rewrite history yet again (and on past form it seems highly likely they will), I'll just refer people back to this blogpost or to my previous one.  I'm now going to mute Kevin on Twitter, and as an extra precaution I'm also going to mute CommonSpace editor Angela Haggerty, who randomly piled in on Kevin's behalf with a taunting tweet yesterday.  Given the thuggish nature of Kevin's language on Sunday (which I can only presume she saw), it's pretty extraordinary that she would nail her colours so firmly to the mast in that way, and it once again undermines her innocent claims that CommonSpace always takes a position of studied neutrality on these disputes.   This of course follows on from an unpleasant incident a few weeks ago when Angela spontaneously intervened in another dispute to brand myself and Andrew Morton "weird auld guys".  Enough is enough as far as I'm concerned.  I'd have been more than happy to debate with her seriously and constructively on tactical voting, radical feminism, or any other subject she wants.  But she clearly considers it beneath her dignity to respectfully discuss anything with the likes of me, and has instead put Scot Goes Pop in the "Wings box" which is the equivalent of dirt to be crushed beneath her shoe.

That's fine.  Kevin and Angela evidently feel there is no pro-indy alternative media worth a damn beyond the "important" and "vital" confines of Bella and CommonSpace, but a good number of us beg to differ.  We've got our own path to follow, and if others have decided not to show basic respect towards us or solidarity with us, that's regrettable, but it's not something we can control.  Hopefully muting them will at least allow for a degree of peaceful co-existence, which seems to be the most that can be hoped for at this stage.

99 comments:

  1. Very well said, James.

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  2. Haggerty, Boyd, McAlpine, Small, Williamson - all of them are "indy-buts".

    By that I mean they are for indy but only on their own (highly selective, "radical" left-wing) terms.

    If those terms aren't met then they don't want indy because frankly who is going to listen to them after indy? Nobody.

    Bella & CommonSpace are doing a very good job of turning themselves into the enemy of indy voters.

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  3. I agree both with what you have said, James, and with anonymous above. The narcissistic tendencies of Williamson, Small and some others are seriously damaging our hopes for independence.

    This doesn't mean that all radical left pro independence people should be considered the same. There are those who realise that independence is a precondition, a necessary first step after which their goals for change can be pursued.

    Let us hope that as many as possible see the light on this and get themselves fully behind the broad Yes movement, without caveats, carping and cavilling.

    I'm not a member of the SNP, but it is clear that the resources of that party must form the largest part of the independence movement, and that once independence is gained all can fight their corner for political direction.

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    Replies
    1. Independence will be won by thousands of people putting in the hours chapping on doors and talking to people.Bella and Commonspace aren't particularly important.

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  4. Are you sure they arent plants from the Other side or paid off to gum up the pro Indy folks? Or perhaps their are mental issues. Glen Beck , a prominent FOX news ranter used to do this stuff.turns out he finally got treatment and has apologized to those he mistreated. I mean, being wrong about tactical voting is a bit embarrassing, especially after you explained it so clearly , but it WAS complicated and a tad counter intuitive. James and I and others have been wrong!!! He should just pull up his tighty whiteys and admit it and move on.

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  5. Yes well put James this in-fighing does the Indy cause no good. A bit of humility from certain quarters required.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:10 AM

      Yes indeed the infighting needs to stop and get the referendum started. I need to get onto this twitter thing it seems to have helped Trump.

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    2. Absolute bloody state of this.

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  6. I notice that Haggerty and Bella's tweets on this seem to have disappeared.

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    Replies
    1. Have you checked whather they've blocked you?

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  7. Well said, James, just block these narcissistic trolls. It's pretty unbelievable that Ms Haggerty would name call like that, so that's only confirmed my suspicions to further avoid.

    With a massive Unionist Press out there, there is more than enough room for our new media. I simply don't understand their petulance and nastiness.

    Who can forget wheesht for Indy? What an eye opener and further more, an e-mail Derek Bateman received.

    These folk need help, or just a bit of modesty would go a long way.

    Don't worry about getting put in the Wings box, as you know, he can't be faulted on his work, no matter what you think of his other activities, so you are in good company.

    Sometimes always be correct and right, annoys those with lesser abilities. Twas always thus.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Interesting you mention Bateman as his "podcasts" have basically turned into "Groundhog Day" since Haggerty got fully involved. Was a fair bit more "diverse" before that happened IMHO.

      By that I mean its the same people time & time again saying the same things time & time again.

      Bateman himself seems to have (finally) worked out that the BBC is in fact not just biased but is state propaganda. I dunno whether that'll last - I suspect not.

      None of these people - Haggerty, Boyd, Williamson etc would be of any interest were it not for one newspaper groups papers (Sunday Herald/National). The fact that the daily Herald is yoon central is obviously just one of those weird things us "auld guys" notice & wonder about.

      Also I'd love to know who "bailed out Bella" as he who pays the piper etc....

      Delete
  8. Bella has some fantastic articles and a crucial role to play
    likewise Commonspace
    likewise ScotGoesPop
    likewise Wings

    I don't buy into the "THEY are undermining us" argument, whoever is saying it.
    We're going to do this together as much because of our differences, as despite them

    ReplyDelete
  9. Bloody well said Mr Kelly!

    Bella & Common got lots of dosh from me during Indyref1.

    They'll get sweet f all from me during Indyref2.

    Canny be doing wi a' these precious numpties.

    ReplyDelete
  10. It's the Wings fundraiser soon. That's probably going to go like a fair, as usual. Cue another outburst of bitterness and jealousy from BC and CS I expect.

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  11. It's this sort of crap that put me off Bella in the first place, quite some time ago now - and no, they're not getting another penny off me either. More power to your authorial elbow, Mr. Kelly!

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  12. Very well said James. I applaud your decision and hope that it will bring you some much needed peace. Since I rely on your reasoned explanations and explorations of the polls and related issues to understand them much better, I'd much rather you spent your energy on continuing to deliver your excellent posts rather than on defending yourself against such pointless, narcissistic attacks.

    I must admit I found the whole tactical voting issue and its possible outcome quite confusing until I read your very measured posts on the issue. Having followed this throughout, I concluded that you were entirely right about the possible effects of a split vote. To be honest, that's why I find Williamson's behaviour bewildering. You looked at the data, ran the numbers and gave your opinion on possible and likely scenarios. IMHO, whether you did or did not personally like any of the parties on offer played very little role in your interpretations (after all, no matter how much one might hate mice, bias is also entirely irrelevant when concluding that an elefant can carry more weight).

    Judging from this latest rant and its aftermath as shown in his comments here and on Twitter, he seems to be the the type of person for whom being right (and being seen to be right) is more important than working across the independence movement to achieve our common goal. Is it possible he simply could not stand to be proven wrong by the election outcome? That he had been casting around wildly for any explanation that could vindicate him, blinding him to how obvious (and desperate) this might seem to others? How else could he possibly misinterpret Prof Curtice's words like that?

    If he believes the articles in the MSM on this issue - outlets that he knows are not only anti-SNP, but above all anti-independence - how can he possibly call himself an independent progressive media dude/outlet and take the MSM stance on it without questioning it? That such articles may aim to sow further discord amongst the various independence groups seems not to have occurred - or matter - to him at all. Not as long as they feed his obvious anti-SNP and pro-anyone else bias.

    Very sad, really. I quite liked Bella until they decided that the power of the SNP needed to be curbed and went for the split vote with a vengeance. That is the obvious goal, is it not?

    It wasn't easy for me to overcome my dislike of the SNP either (the nationalist angle troubled me as much as their erstwhile neo-liberal policies), but I have accepted they are our best chance for independence and am happy to support them until that goal is achieved.

    Who governs Scotland after independence is a completely different issue, but until then I wish people like Williamson could accept that trying to sabotage the SNP will sabotage the struggle for independence.

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  13. I like a poster above gave up on Bella and CS after wheesht for Indy then the over the top pushing of RISE. After Indy ref I joined the SNP as the only protest left aftr 50 odd years avoiding membership of any party. After Indy I will slink back off into the shadows but for now will do whatever I can to get Scotland out of the UK. In my view Bella CS are not helping and should take some of their own advice and wheesht while we go for Indy.

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  14. Gaun yersel, James. I gave up on Bella's petulance a long time ago - I will look at Common Space with a more judicial eye from now on too.

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    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 8:34 PM

      Good to see you fash are falling out over your Nat si cause. You need to hold a referendum to leave the Union. So whits up wie ye just call it. If you are too thick to realise that then whats your purpose?

      Delete
    2. fuck off you Nazi Trumpet

      Delete
  15. This is so petty. Both sides. We are on the same side and of course we should have disagreements about policy and direction or whatnot, but I am an SNP member and the attitude from some towards fellow independence friends is quite erratic.

    We are NEVER going to win a referendum, and there will be soon. Just look at the mess of Brexit, by petty and it is petty pointless point scoring.

    We will have to come together again in a very short while, and whilst robust discussion should be encouraged by calling fellow independence supporters "indy buts" makes us look ridiculous and divided when it comes to the big cause.

    Let's settle the ridiculous point scoring until after we WIN!

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    1. That's a fine ideal, but it has its limitations for as long as there are some parts of the pro-indy alternative media that seem to be literally committed to the eradication of other parts of the pro-indy alternative media. Look at the attitude of some parts of the radical left towards Wings, for example. As I said in the blogpost, peaceful co-existence may in some cases be a more realistic goal than 'coming together'.

      Delete
  16. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 7:39 PM

    Thats it done we are on our way out of the 4th Reich. The Nat si scum MP'S look fn scunnered. Over tae them now for their next move to crawl to Herman.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The poster above is a far-right racist UKIP sockpuppetFebruary 1, 2017 at 8:07 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

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    2. What he said.

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 8:23 PM

      I am pleased to say that the right wing fash Jock Nat si is somewhat scunnered about the constant losses the Nat sis suffered due to democracy...
      Now you are running out of time.... Go for the referendum and be trashed lying scumbag. Up yer lederhosen.

      Delete
    4. The poster above is a far-right racist UKIP sockpuppetFebruary 1, 2017 at 8:57 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

      Delete
  17. I'm with you James.

    I read on quite a few sites that many commentators I respect are sick and tired of the posturing of Bella and Common Space. Like others I have donated to both, but will not do so again. Nor will I visit their sites.

    If Kevin and others had an ounce of nous they would take note, but I suspect their egos get in the way.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 8:49 PM

      My mrs scolded me for not knowing what the word nous meant. But I am only working class and she hails from Paisley. What I do know is Scotland needs to hold a referendum to leave the Union. So if the Nat sis had an ounce of nounce they would call it. Yesterday. If brexit works and the economy is stable you Nat sis are fooked.

      Delete
    2. The poster above is a far-right racist UKIP sockpuppetFebruary 1, 2017 at 8:56 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

      Delete
  18. In case anybody missed it. Scotland were third in the New Zealand leg of the 7s series. Thrashed england in the quarter finals too.

    Odd that it doesn't seem to have been reported anywhere. Can't have any good news about Scotland on our quisling media.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Oooooofffftt!!! SNP amendment defeated 336-100. Article 50 approved 498-114. More cricket scores against the SNP. What an embarrassment!

    1 single Tory MP rebelled out of 330 odd. So much for Mick's predictions of a huge tory split...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Aldo the cringing kipperFebruary 1, 2017 at 9:45 PM

      Nobody predicted a tory split on the white paper vote shit for brains. Just that the tory part IS irrevocably split along kipper tory lines. An obvious truth which only a Daily Mail simpleton like yourself denies.

      Delete
    2. KipperTory Trumpets for unityFebruary 1, 2017 at 10:04 PM

      Financial Post

      U.K. Prime Minister Theresa May faces a battle with pro-European lawmakers in her Conservative Party after they grudgingly backed her plan to trigger Brexit negotiations by the end of March in its first test in Parliament.

      “The battle’s only just started,” said former Chancellor of the Exchequer Kenneth Clarke, the one Conservative who said he’d oppose the bill. “We’ve been in a very unreal, silly world since the rather startling result of the referendum. We’re on a voyage of discovery now with a sketchy outline of the negotiating position.”

      Under May’s plan, Parliament will have to decide on a series of issues that will “completely divide” political friends and the wider country, former Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne told lawmakers before the vote in London. Her government will have to grapple with controversies over setting migration limits, state support for farms and businesses and free trade policies, he said.

      “I will be in those fights in the couple of years ahead,” Osborne, who campaigned to stay in the EU, told lawmakers.

      May didn’t want to give Parliament a say on triggering Article 50 of the EU’s Lisbon treaty, formally launching Britain on the path out of the EU.

      Delete
  20. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 9:49 PM

    Lesley Riddoch ‏@LesleyRiddoch Jan 31

    So Theresa May knew about Trump's impending travel ban when she invited him to a State visit. Incredibly bad judgement.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 10:18 PM

      Lesley Riddoch! Thought she was Irish? The USA travel ban is a matter for them.
      The Jock Nat sis should deal with social matters in Scotland.

      Delete
    2. The poster above is a far-right racist UKIP sockpuppetFebruary 1, 2017 at 10:24 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 10:32 PM

      I do appreciate your repetitive post and I do pass it on to sensible people. Keep doing it Nat sis.

      Delete
    4. The poster above is a far-right racist UKIP sockpuppetFebruary 1, 2017 at 10:45 PM

      The troll calls scottish people "jocks", advocates arming Leave campaigners, claimed Jo Cox's husband was a fascist, uses racial and ethnic slurs, pretends to be Labour (badly) while espousing far-right racist hate-speech, praises Theresa May and the tories and displays a perverted poisonous obsession with Scotland's First Minister & her predecessor

      Delete
    5. The troll claims to know sensible people (laughs uncontrollably)

      Delete
  21. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 9:51 PM

    Anis ‏@0xUID Jan 30

    30,000 gather outside Downing Street, London to protest Trump's ban and Theresa May's appeasement of it. #MuslimBan #StandUpToTrump #NoBan

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 10:56 PM

      Only thirty thousand that is a bonus I thought there were more braindead out there. Phew feel safer now.

      Delete
    2. Alleged terrorist Alexandre Bissonnette, 27, supports far-right movements
      THE MAN CHARGED WITH MASSACRING six people and five further counts of attempted murder at a Quebec mosque in Canada is a supporter of far-right movements and the politics of new US President Donald Trump, according to classmates and activists who knew him.

      Alexandre Bissonnette, 27, is charged with the shooting that occurred on Sunday 29 January - in a terrorist attack on the Islamic Cultural Centre of Quebec City.

      The attack follows concern of the threat of far-right extremism of the likes prominent in the killing of Jo Cox MP, the Anders Breivik attack in Norway, or the most recent shooting of an anti-fascist activist in Seattle.

      Classmates and activists who knew Bissonnette said he was an active supporter of far-right movements, who have targeted Muslim communities.

      Classmate Jean-Michel Allard Prus told Le Journal de Quebec that he had “right-wing political ideas, pro-Israel, anti-immigration. I had many debates with him about Trump,” he said. “He was obviously pro-Trump.”

      Delete
  22. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 10:23 PM

    Ross Colquhoun ‏@rosscolquhoun 10h

    Tories 2014: Voting No protects EU membership
    Tories 2016: Scotland, we're taking you out EU
    Tories 2017: Independence will take you out EU

    ReplyDelete
  23. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 10:26 PM

    Michael Gray ‏@GrayInGlasgow 11h

    Donald Trump supporter charged with massacre at Quebec mosque: http://ow.ly/dGve308z1TK

    ReplyDelete
  24. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 10:29 PM

    Thousands of German police raid premises in Hessen looking for Islamic terrorists that Merkel let into Germany. Trump is not letting them in just to chase after them. Clever man is Trump. Jock Nat sis are a danger to the Scottish people.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. UKIP Racist Class 2February 1, 2017 at 10:31 PM

      Michael Gray ‏@GrayInGlasgow 11h

      Donald Trump supporter charged with massacre at Quebec mosque: http://ow.ly/dGve308z1TK

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 10:53 PM

      How could he be a Trump supporter when he was allegedly a French Canadian seperatist.

      Delete
    3. UKIP Racist Class 2February 1, 2017 at 10:58 PM

      He wasn't, you're lying as usual

      Delete
    4. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:03 PM

      So you have evidense he supported Trump financially!

      Delete
    5. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:05 PM

      I said allegedly I was not lying.

      Delete
    6. First time for everything...

      Delete
  25. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 10:48 PM

    Lindsay Bruce ‏@RogueCoder250 4h

    Labour there, demonstrating why the SNP is now widely regarded as the official opposition. #LabStain #brexit

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:24 PM

      Official opposition where? They are supposed to be Scottish Nationalists ya knobend not opposition in Westminster. So they have been bought is that what you are saying?

      Delete
    2. KipperTory Trumpets for unityFebruary 1, 2017 at 11:48 PM

      Shock as witless kipper twat doesn't understand politics

      Delete
  26. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 11:02 PM

    Pat Kane ‏@thoughtland 15h

    That's helpful: D Raab says a Scottish hard border with England would b "wrong in principle & impossible to enforce"

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:33 PM

      England would insist on a hard border if Scotland has policies that differ from them. That is not unusual. If the Nat sis after independence think they can come and go at their leisure into a foreign country then franky their heads are up their arse. And they should be honest about that with the Scittish people.

      Delete
    2. Alleged terrorist Alexandre Bissonnette, 27, supports far-right movements
      THE MAN CHARGED WITH MASSACRING six people and five further counts of attempted murder at a Quebec mosque in Canada is a supporter of far-right movements and the politics of new US President Donald Trump, according to classmates and activists who knew him.

      Alexandre Bissonnette, 27, is charged with the shooting that occurred on Sunday 29 January - in a terrorist attack on the Islamic Cultural Centre of Quebec City.

      The attack follows concern of the threat of far-right extremism of the likes prominent in the killing of Jo Cox MP, the Anders Breivik attack in Norway, or the most recent shooting of an anti-fascist activist in Seattle.

      Classmates and activists who knew Bissonnette said he was an active supporter of far-right movements, who have targeted Muslim communities.

      Classmate Jean-Michel Allard Prus told Le Journal de Quebec that he had “right-wing political ideas, pro-Israel, anti-immigration. I had many debates with him about Trump,” he said. “He was obviously pro-Trump.”

      Delete
  27. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 11:05 PM

    Christian DeFeo ‏@doctorcdf Jan 31

    Donald Trump's White House says 5-year-old boy was 'handcuffed' because he was a 'security threat'

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:19 PM

      Its routine fur 5 year olds tae be cuffed in Glesga.

      Delete
    2. Thick as pigshit Kipper sockpuppet proves to everyone he's never been to scotland in his life.

      Well done you Fascist fuckstick. LOL

      Delete
  28. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 11:12 PM

    alanbenzie ‏@alanbenzie 1h

    Suggestion that Trump might meet the Queen in Scotland to avoid demonstrations presumably made by someone who has never been to Scotland

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:17 PM

      Is that knickerless wee fairy queen of Scotland looking fur a trade deal?

      Delete
    2. Theresa May was the one pictured hand in hand with Trump you clueless kipper twat.

      Np doubt you will be fantasising about where Trump's hand was just before that picture you pitiful far-right wretch.

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:37 PM

      You had the idea first about the Trump hand. Maybe I can sniff yer finger as compensation.

      Delete
    4. Trump and his tiny wandering hands were being laughed at long before now you Kipper dipshit.

      You really don't have a clue about current events or politics do you? lol

      Delete
    5. Glasgow Working Class 2February 2, 2017 at 12:01 AM

      You are right I read last years additions of that Jock National rag. It is better than Private Eye. But I am catching up. Thought the Nat si would have called a referendum last October.

      Delete
    6. Absolute bloody state of this.

      Delete
  29. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:14 PM

    Lesley Riddoch is apparantly English lived in Belfast and went to a posh school in Scotland. So that is why she is so articulate... But never convinced the majority of Scots to leave the Union... Wonder if she has an axe to grind against the British.... Need tae get oan that twitter thingy... and engage with the fash.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. 'Quebec City mosque attack suspect known for right-wing online posts

      The suspect in the deadly attack on a Quebec City mosque was known in the city’s activist circles as a right-wing troll who frequently took anti-foreigner and anti-feminist positions and stood up for U.S. President Donald Trump.

      Alexandre Bissonnette, 27, a student at Laval University who lived on a quiet crescent in the Cap-Rouge suburb of Quebec City, faces six counts of first-degree murder for a shooting that killed six people and wounded 19 others. Police initially arrested a person they considered a second suspect but they later backtracked, saying he was a witness.

      Mr. Bissonnette’s online profile and school friendships revealed little interest in extremist politics until last March when French nationalist leader Marine Le Pen visited Quebec City and inspired Mr. Bissonnette to vocal extreme online activism, according to people who clashed with him.'

      Delete
  30. Who on earth has the time to read this rubbish!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bella, Williamson the Herald and some greens lied to the scottish electorate about an SNP majority being 100% guaranteed.

      Now some of the biggest liars are lashing out which would hurt their credibility if they hadn't already blew it resulting in very few people trusting them now or in the future.

      That short enough for you?

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:42 PM

      Me and you Nat si. Two lonely persons passing away time on the way to the crematorium. Up yer tartan lederhosen.

      Delete
    3. Fuck off back to stormfront lite you far-right simpleton.

      We all know you're an impotent kipper sockpuppet with your head up Trumps arse.

      Delete
    4. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:55 PM

      I did try to replace Kim Jung Eck but Knickerless squeezed in in front of me.

      Delete
    5. Absolute bloody state of this.

      Delete
  31. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 11:29 PM

    Lindsay Bruce ‏@RogueCoder250 4h

    Labour there, demonstrating why the SNP is now widely regarded as the official opposition. #LabStain #brexit

    ReplyDelete
  32. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 11:34 PM

    alanbenzie ‏@alanbenzie 1h

    Suggestion that Trump might meet the Queen in Scotland to avoid demonstrations presumably made by someone who has never been to Scotland

    ReplyDelete
  33. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 11:35 PM

    Pat Kane ‏@thoughtland 15h

    That's helpful: D Raab says a Scottish hard border with England would b "wrong in principle & impossible to enforce"

    ReplyDelete
  34. Theresa Trump and the BrexitearsFebruary 1, 2017 at 11:37 PM

    Christian DeFeo ‏@doctorcdf Jan 31

    Donald Trump's White House says 5-year-old boy was 'handcuffed' because he was a 'security threat'

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2February 1, 2017 at 11:51 PM

      ISIL experimenting with baby bombers in prams. Using disabled children. They are expendable. Nazis.

      Delete
    2. foaming at the mouth Yoon maniac

      Delete
  35. vGraeme Smith ‏@TheHerald_ed 47m

    EXCLUSIVE: Tories will block second independence vote, senior cabinet minister tells The Herald.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. this is bound to work. trust us we have 1 scottish MPFebruary 2, 2017 at 12:00 AM

      Will ye? Aye right ye fuckin are. LOL

      Delete
  36. For what it is worth James, I've never visited Bella or Common Space since the very early days of 2014 but I've rarely let a day go by that I haven't visited this site or Wings. Everything I know about polling I learned from you. Keep up the great work.

    Hugh

    ReplyDelete
  37. Michael Fallon states that there is no mandate for a new referendum becasue the SNP lost seats in the election. WALOFS it may be but we can thank K Williamson and the 2nd vote green/rise/solidarity mentalcases for giving him the excuse.

    ReplyDelete
  38. 'Michael Fallon states that there is no mandate'

    Hilariously ironic stuff from a tory twit with 1 scottish MP and ZERO mandate from the electorate for Kipper Theresa as PM.
    Not even from tory party members.

    Not that anyone in scotland (apart from the few die hard yoons) will give a shit what their laughable 'excuse' is anyway.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Glasgow Working ClassFebruary 2, 2017 at 1:48 AM

    Once brexit has happened and I assume the Nat sis will not call a referendum because the Nat si MP'S at Westminster are enjoying the fruits and trolling Clapham Common we need to halve the MSP'S at Holyrood. A great saving to the taxpayer and expended wind. Then the House of Lords needs gutted.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Nigel the City Spiv and his public-school rentboy japesFebruary 2, 2017 at 3:04 AM

      Caracal ‏@caracal Jan 21

      #Trump's arse wiper #Farage ripped off £Millions from #EU
      "expenses" & hid them in secret off-shore accounts

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23001529 …

      Delete
  40. Glasgow Working Class 2February 2, 2017 at 2:00 AM

    Rumour from the Red Lion bozzer in Whitehall where all Jock Nat sis have congregated tae think again. They have voted in principle to resign and come hame tae Scotland forfeiting their salaries for the sake of Scotland. Followed by loud laughter and cries of who is next on the bell.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Away an take yer racist lies and pish back to yer fascist pals up Trump's arse, ya witless kipper twat

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working Class 2February 2, 2017 at 11:21 AM

      Those who would run Scotland into economic disaster! More concerned about Trump. Awa and play with yer Tweeter.

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2February 2, 2017 at 11:26 AM

      They are still at the bar waiting to see who is paying for a round. Miserable Jocks.

      Delete
    4. Never mind. Off you pop, sweetie, it's your turn to write to the Dreary Heil in green ink.

      Delete
  41. Trump's Golden Shower of KippersFebruary 2, 2017 at 3:15 AM

    Shaun KingVerified account ‏@ShaunKing Jan 26

    Utterly disgusting & unacceptable. A full blown white supremacist was just hired to work in the Dept of Education.

    Trump staffer who shared racist posts online to join Education Department - NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

    ReplyDelete
  42. Trump's Golden Shower of KippersFebruary 2, 2017 at 3:21 AM

    West Wing ReportsVerified account ‏@WestWingReport 3h

    Also today: Trump admin wants to stop using govt. resources to track white supremacist groups - even though their threat is rising (Reuters)

    ReplyDelete
  43. You have made the correct judgment call James. Scotland's alt-left theocracy - McAlpine, Haggerty, Small etc - enabled by Newsquest and given old skool patronage by McWhirter and McKenna. If I hear one of these clowns use the word 'radical' again I'm going to drown all my social media churning mobile tech in a boiling vat of cool aid.

    ReplyDelete