Friday, June 24, 2016

Memo to Theresa Villiers : You're on a loser with this one

I was just watching Channel 4 News, and midway through it, Theresa Villiers (Northern Ireland Secretary and Leave campaigner) said something truly extraordinary. First she said that she agreed with Ruth Davidson that now is not the right time for an independence referendum, and then she stated that Scotland had voted to remain in the United Kingdom at a time when it already knew that a UK referendum on EU membership was on the cards.

Well, that's very curious, because I suspect the people of Scotland might just remember that Ruth Davidson herself, in a high-profile TV debate during the independence referendum, informed voters that her own party was unlikely to win the 2015 general election (let alone win an overall majority), and that we could therefore vote No safe in the knowledge than an EU referendum would NOT happen. I'm not sure how the position can be much clearer - the narrow No vote was won specifically on the premise that it would safeguard our EU membership, rather than imperil it within less than two years.

I'm afraid Ms Villiers will have to learn to understand that agreeing with the leader of the Scottish Tory party is not a part-time occupation.

108 comments:

  1. They think we have short memories and the Internet doesn't exist!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. #IndyreftributeactJune 24, 2016 at 8:22 PM

      Speaking of which, somebody for the love of god record the Any Questions on Radio 4. Just saw a tip off for it and it's PURE GOLD! :o)

      BBC still digging furiously away. LOLZ

      Delete
    2. Remember when any mention of the generation gap was strictly forbidden after IndyRef1? Since the westminster bubble zoomer media went ballistic even at tweets which dared mention it or seemed to imply older generations were not a permanent feature.

      Well, not any more.

      It's been the talk of the chattering classes all day with the BBC and plenty of others bemoaning those 'dratted' old people while praising the bright eyed optimistic youth. All without a flicker of irony or scintilla of self-awareness.

      Expect far more of this to come.

      There just isn't enough popcorn in the world right now.

      Delete
  2. I'm sure Dimbelby said the the same thing to John Swinney on QT a few weeks ago.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Bojo Trump and his amazing schoolboy JapesJune 24, 2016 at 8:29 PM

      Yup. It's incredibly weak stuff which ranks alongside shrieking about 'once in a generation' as out of touch pissing into the wind.

      Delete
  3. I think he did, that is the lie they will try to use to prevent indyref.

    Though for brexit to happen, it has to go through and be ratified by Holyrood.

    Scotland could make things difficult or even cause a constitutional crisis, should it wish to.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dugdale puts the boot into CorbynJune 24, 2016 at 8:40 PM

      Well Dugdale and her idiot Labour pals tried some stunningly stupid spin last night by trying to blame the SNP for winning Scotland over to Remain. So they are indeed daft enough to try it.

      Hell mend them if they do though.

      Delete
    2. Labour supporters (and Ian Murray MP) already starting to post negative, Project Fear 2/3 material on Facebook. Do they really think that standing with the Tories (and UKIP) again is going to win them back support? Delusional.

      Delete
  4. Well, if it's a lie, and it is, someone on our side, at a political level should be echoing what James just said. Why the heck aren't they?

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    1. You might want to check social media. SNP membership applications are flying out the door again and preparations have well and truly started in the SNP for the Summer Indy campaign. Not to mention an extremely classy response from the FM which few Indy supporters cannot have seen by now.

      This, however, is old stuff and weak as a Cameroon in a Brexit party,. So it ain't exactly top priority. ;)

      Delete
    2. Wir oan it,

      If it's a lie then it should be rebutted? Yes or No? Not just on Social Media but everywhere. You come across as someone with an iron in the fire, I can assure you that I do not.

      1) I read blogs, social media is a step too far. Has it been picked up on so-called social media and is it being called a lie there? Which political figure is calling it out? If is just your good self, well, you are as uninfluential as me. I have never heard of you and that is not an insult. I have never heard of most people in the UK.

      That we are succeeding is probably despite rather than because of you Wir oan it. I have a huge amount of time for Nicola Sturgeon who in your words in 'classy'. In mine she is statesmanlke.

      I think you are full of shit.

      Contrarywise, if you have the knowledge you claim, I am absolutely delighted that my party is seeing a further growth in membership.

      Delete
    3. Wee Dougie Clarkie the scotty McScot from scotland ye ken?June 24, 2016 at 9:29 PM

      "I have a huge amount of time for Nicola Sturgeon"

      Really? You have a huge amount of time for the leader of the SNP and the Scottish First Minister?

      That's MICHTY BIG of you.

      ROFL

      I smell shiiiite son.

      Yer clearly nae fuckin guid at this wee man so perhaps you really should consider pissing jolly well off with your feeble concern trolling.

      You were spotted long before this which is why I put the hook out. Rest assured.

      Delete
    4. Not Aldo or any other SL refuseJune 24, 2016 at 9:40 PM

      I'm not here and nor are my friends.

      Delete
    5. You are an incredibly cheap piece of shite.

      Delete
    6. It's the Herd, son.June 25, 2016 at 12:54 AM

      That a fact young Dougley? Well you're a twat who couldn't concern troll your way out of a paper bag.
      Consider that one free of charge.

      Delete
  5. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 8:54 PM

    Look Nat sis you participated in a British election so accept the democratic outcome. I listened to Villiers and she was interupted on an scale of 9 by Snow. However she should just tell the murdering PIRA scumbags to accept democracy. The working class of Wales voted out they can smell the EU corruption. A Sturgeon and Adams alliance would be welcome here in Scotland! Aye.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Tory Racist Class 2June 24, 2016 at 9:09 PM

      Ruth Davidsons buffalo bruised ringpiece accepts democratic working class Boris sponging. LisTEN? Nat!!!Is?!!! Ruth Davidsons upper class Wales smells kipper knickerless scumbags on a scale of 6/8 by Rain. Tory copulation and Grizzly Adams Alliance party. Ock Aye the Noooooooo Jocks!!

      Delete
    2. Yep. That's a pretty concise summary of the agent provocateur's recent ravings.

      Delete
    3. Hey 23, have you heard the phrase "two wolves and a sheep voting on who's for dinner"?

      Delete
  6. Out of touch Islington Champagne Socialist Emily Thornberry just claimed scots had an Independence referendum "last year" on R4 Any Questions. (NOBODY corrected her! LOL)

    Joining in with some championship level condescending drivel from two idiot tories and some kipper twat in patronisingly trying to brush off Indyref2.

    Please, let these idiots be active for the next 'Better Together' No campaign. :-D

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    1. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 9:03 PM

      A mistake and slip of the tongue does not make someone an idiot, idiot.

      Delete
    2. Being a tiny brained racist pretending to be Scottish on a site which knows you are a fake is what makes you an idiot.

      Sam the BNP Bam

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 9:20 PM

      Nah it is you who is the anti English rascist and it is Tam the Bam.

      Delete
    4. Tory Racist ClassJune 24, 2016 at 9:42 PM

      Sam the BNP spam got banned and went greetin to his mam. ;)

      Delete
  7. A revolting migrant ‏@KojoRTE · 4 hours ago

    To celebrate #Brexit @TheSun has put Billy Charlton, a neo-Nazi from #Sunderland on their front page


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    1. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 9:20 PM

      A mistake and slip of the racism does not make someone an racist, or something.

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 9:23 PM

      You seem scared to use your own name racist.

      Delete
    3. Have you been drinking again. Well brought up ladies like yourself from Eastwood should know better. Time to cut back on the Cointreau.

      Delete
  8. OOR Cath Maguire ‏@scarycath · 4 hours ago

    Seeing so many tweets from Indyref No voters saying they will vote Yes in Indyref2. Welcome to you, one and all.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 9:31 PM

      Just yes twats tweeting as they do. Losers all. I hope knickerless goes for a referendum soon. Actually she is hanging onto power and shiting herself if she loses and will. You joke Nat sis have no shame and will crawl tae anyone for handouts.

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working ClassJune 24, 2016 at 9:37 PM

      You seem scared to use your own name racist fake.

      Delete
  9. Wings Scotlandsson ‏@WingsScotland · 5 hours ago

    In the coming months, remember who told you the truth and who lied to you. http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-wee-black-book/ …

    ReplyDelete
  10. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 9:51 PM

    Ach well enough of reading losers for the night. So repetitive since September 19 2014 and fun much fun indeed hilarious. Remember to phone the Samaritans if you are losing it.

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Chicken George and the Amazing disappearing incompetent FopJune 24, 2016 at 9:59 PM

      How's yer tory party noo? LOL

      Delete
  11. GWC2 is a deviant weirdo folks.

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    1. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 11:41 PM

      People who wish to stop others sniffing Ruth Davidson's chocolate starfish are just potential Stasi torturers.

      Delete
    2. He is.

      He let a Labrador eat a cucumber oot his arse whilst a Gibbon stuck its finger doon his pisshole. He was eating his own grannies shite at the time with every sign of enjoyment and washing it down with his sisters piss.

      Delete
  12. An independent Scotland and a united Ireland. Win win.

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  13. GWC2, obey your Queen Brit natsi.

    ReplyDelete
  14. As we enter what may be the endgame, it is important James that you tackle the trolling. This site is one of the invaluable ones. You must urgently migrate to a site where the trolls can be excluded.

    I will pledge you £100 on the crowdfunder. Please get the finger out.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 11:28 PM

      You are the worst kind of fascist kind of like religious idiot fundamentalists. People who wish to stop others speaking their minds are just potential Stasi torturers.

      Delete
    2. So... what's UKIP actually for now?

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2June 25, 2016 at 12:00 AM

      Ask them. But they did achieve the referendum. The wasters on the EU gravy train must be shiting themselves. A momentous vote in ridding blood suckers lets hope the Europeans will awake and get rid of the mafia.

      Delete
    4. I agree a new host is needed. Especially as I got a fake virus announcement (probably ransomware) when I clicked through the first time.

      Delete
    5. I agree a new host is needed. Especially as I got a fake virus announcement (probably ransomware) when I clicked through the first time.

      Delete
  15. James, Any views or comments on the Ashcroft Poll showing the make up of the votes? SNP voters - 64% Remain 36% Exit.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/how-the-united-kingdom-voted-and-why/

    ReplyDelete
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    1. Glasgow Working Class 2June 24, 2016 at 11:37 PM

      Lord Ashcroft the Tory Bhoy and funder. Who funds the bourgeoisie Scottish Nat sis. The British working and lower classes using the ballot box fired a shot across the bow of the EU elitists. The Joke Labour Nat sis, Libs, Greens et al fucked at the ballot box. Hey 38% of Scots had the common sense to fuck them. We are not going away as herr Adams would say.

      Delete
    2. Kezia Dugdale refuses to say that she has confidence in Jeremy Corbyn on BBC News.

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2June 25, 2016 at 12:24 AM

      Good both are wasters. Dan Jarvis is the man to lead Labour and Britain. Solid bloke. Sturgeon and Swinney are looking old Salmond is suffering from decreptitude and Scotch pie disease. Time for Britain tae move on and remove the dead wood.

      Delete
    4. All you've got is blue Tory and Kipper dead wood...

      Delete
  16. The Ultra-Unionist Daily Record just basically came out for Independence along with former Labour FM Henry McLeish.

    Staggering.

    This really is going to be it. :-D

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    1. Wouldn't that be something, if Labour in Scotland campaigned for independence? It would certainly tip the balance and save what is left of their party.

      All we would be up against is Ruth's Undemocratic Unionists. I wouldn't include the LibDems in that because no one cares about them outside Orkney and Shetland.

      Delete
    2. Shifting Tectonic PlatesJune 25, 2016 at 12:18 AM

      Truth be told it will never be all of Labour and likely not 'official' SLAB. (The massed hordes ;) ) Unless they finally come to their senses.

      However, it is a racing certainty that right now the poison filled Hothersall wing is slowly realising fewer and fewer SLAB members/activists are actually taking their calls. Meanwhile reality has finally sunk in for those who stuck it out thinking it couldn't get any worse. It can, it just has and come Indyref2 it most certainly will if they try to repeat 2014.

      As for the lib dems.. LOL

      There just isn't enough popcorn in the world!

      Leaving aside how laugh out loud funny it is to see Farron's pitiful Indyref tribute act (difficult though that clearly is) after the Scottish lib dems spat irrational hatred at the SNP and it's voters for SO long.

      They seriously haven't realised that you can hardly move heaven and earth to be a pro-IN 'insurgency' when at the first test you decide, "Nah! We draw the line at giving a democratic voice to the only country which voted positively for IN and the only party which actually worked hard enough for IN with the results to prove it." It's utter lunacy!

      Farron is clearly a joke but he seems willing to write off the tiny remnants of the Scottish branch of the lib dems for his amusingly overblown and clownish 'scheme'. So be it. The chances of the Scottish lib dems recovering any time soon was vanishingly small anyway after they were annihilated in May. Standing shoulder to shoulder with Davidson while Farron 'crusades' for another IN vote only increases their irrelevance, utter absurdity and toxicity.

      Delete
    3. I was a No voter in 2014, largely because the economic case didn't make the slightest bit of sense. It still doesn't make any sense for that matter (we generate far less revenue than we spend) and I found the anti-expert populism of the Yes campaign just as difficult to accept as I did with the leave campaign. I also think James is so extreme and blinkered in his love for the SNP that I find this site vaguely sinister and unpleasant for the most part. Wings Over Scotland is a hundred times worse. I despise everything about it. The way Stuart Campbell conducted himself during the campaign was about as low as it gets without physically attacking people for their political beliefs.

      And why am I telling you all this? Not to start an argument, but to underline the point that when even people like me now support independence (and as of the early hours of Friday morning I do) something has changed remarkably in Scotland. The 17 million or so who are intent on kicking our European friends, colleagues (even partners/spouses) out the UK have nothing in common with my values. Without shared values there's no point having a country. Put me down for a Yes in indyref2.

      Delete
    4. "I also think James is so extreme and blinkered in his love for the SNP that I find this site vaguely sinister and unpleasant for the most part."

      The Blogger platform has become so bug-ridden over the last few days that I'm beginning to wonder if I'll be forced to switch to something different. If so, 'Sinister Love' might be quite a catchy new name.

      Welcome aboard, Bardot. Don't worry, you'll be as sinister as the rest of us in no time.

      Delete
    5. Given that a mere £2,000,000,000 of whisky revenues are credited to london when they should belong to us. We are charged £4,000,000,000 a year for interest payments on a debt that doesn't belong to us and another £1,000,000,000 for trident. I think you should stop with the lies.

      Scotland has always paid more than we get back. EVERY SINGLE YEAR SINCE 1707.

      How will the english cope with out any industry, no whisky, massive energy deficit and no water?

      Delete
    6. No-one is going to be kicked out of anywhere.

      Delete
    7. Better Together?June 25, 2016 at 1:55 AM

      The most senior figures in the tory party have just spent months spitting pure hatred at each other and will keep doing so for years yet. The Kippers were the Tea Party wing of the tories who stumbled into the right tory crisis at just the right time with just the right amount of xenophobic hatred to cash in on that tory split. Meanwhile in Labour their leader is loathed by most of his own Blairite MPs as he struggles against almost weekly leadership plots and coup attempts. The Lib Dems have made themselves an irrelevance.

      So in the grand scheme of things, the opinions you held on some social media figures and a party you don't support but looked on from afar? Not really of much consequence if we're being honest and certainly nothing compared to the stark choice now facing Scotland's people.

      This has been a day of eyes being opened across Scotland and well beyond. It won't be the last, that's for damn sure.

      Delete
    8. "No-one is going to be kicked out of anywhere."

      There are two possibilities here:

      1. Either the decision to vote leave to end free movement (which was the single biggest factor, as best we can tell, in shaping the result) was pointless and getting rid of free movement won't actually make it any harder for anyone from the rest of the EU to live and work in the UK.

      2. Or as the entire point of scrapping free movement is to reduce immigration, it will in fact make it harder for EU citizens to live and work in the UK.

      Both can't be true so which is it? Throughout the campaign the leave side were incredibly muddled on this point - on the one hand whipping up anti-immigration sentiment and presenting the vote as a path to drastically cutting net migration (the figure Farage used was 30,000 per year) yet pretending that it won't actually affect people living here or our right to live and work abroad.

      Delete
    9. "Scotland has always paid more than we get back. EVERY SINGLE YEAR SINCE 1707."

      That just isn't true, but I'm still voting Yes in the next referendum.

      Delete
    10. The crux of what happens next in the England/Wales polity is pressure applied to achieve possibility 1. or 2.

      That means a certain amount of verbal backtracking from soft tory OUT figures while Farage prepares to join forces with the more hardline Brexiteers in the tory party to oppose that and ensure UKIP is there to take advantage of any 'slippage' at the ballot box from here on in.

      That, incidently, is the obvious answer to the "what is UKIP for?" question some have asked.

      It is also why there is no prospect of the next tory leader being a Cameroon type IN tory. The pressure applied by UKIP will ensure the tories next leader (likely Boris) will have almost no 'wriggle room' on the immigration question.

      It is why, far from immigration and free movement moving to the backburner, it will continue to be the defining issue of this term and the tory leadership contest.

      So there will be a continuation of the kind of rhetoric and campaigning that Brexiteers think won them OUT for the foreseeable future as those who voted OUT judge the actions of the OUT figures and parties against their rhetoric.

      Pushback from the westminster establishment/BBC/media is certain to apply more pressure on softening the immigration/free movement stance.


      That conflict between immigration/free movement and the proponents for and against will keep running not only until Brexit but far beyond that now that the Kippers see themselves as gaining a significant electoral advantage from being the loudest and most visible proponents of the immigration/free movement issue.

      Which brings us to Farron. His party is too small to be a convincing or effective 'brake' on the process. (Due to calamitous leadership from Clegg and his ostrich faction who have irrevocably damaged their own party and the public's trust in it) And, more to the point, it looks far too much like another piece of positioning Clegg has dreamed up. Clegg still seems to harbour a desire to bring in disgruntled tories to his fold (IN tories and Cameroons) by keeping the pressure on his party to keep shifting right to make them feel more welcome along with an explicitly pro-EU stance.

      Farron might be fronting it but the 'strategy' is pure Clegg with a touch of Ashdown as they continue to try to push Farron around and pull his strings.

      However, disgruntled Tories are far too tribal to simply move en mass to the lib dems. Particularly now that Clegg isn't leader. Farron is not and can never be a good 'fit' for that.


      TLDR - Immigration isn't going away any time soon as an issue dominating England and Wales. The Brexit has merely given it the outward focus and momentum to now shape the tory party and politics in England/Wales for the next decade or so.

      Delete
  17. This is one of the most easily debunked, yet frustratingly prolific, Unionist memes on the go at the moment.

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    1. Look around keaton. It's a fart in a hurricane as things are changing in Scotland yet again with steady unstoppable momentum.

      Last time we felt and saw this was just after IndyRef1.

      I expected a gradual modest and growing shift after a Brexit, but this is something else again.

      Delete
  18. "The Blogger platform has become so bug-ridden over the last few days that I'm beginning to wonder if I'll be forced to switch to something different."

    Do what Rev Stu does, set up a crowdfunder so you can afford to pay for decent hosting/software
    I'll happily bung you a few groats.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All platforms have some form of a support service. If the 'bugs' are real, repeatable and not some phantom glitches or serverside connection problems, then they can presumably be fixed.

      Platforms with unresolvable and repeating failure states are hardly going to last for very long.

      Delete
  19. Replies
    1. https://youtu.be/eJWUmSbt0Ms

      Delete
  20. Scotland should ask the EU to be considered the "continuator state"( Greenland/Denmark). It would keep things easier than the Treaty changes a new accession country would entail, and would also prevent a veto being applied to Scotland.

    ReplyDelete
  21. 61% of French will vote Leave. Others will follow. There will *be* no EU shortly. Scotland's relationship with the EU doesn't merit discussion.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. So why are you posting here?

      This post is having a discussion on that very subject.

      I would advise finding another place to comment on.

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working Class 2June 25, 2016 at 10:40 AM

      You are not here to advise Nat si fash bhoy.

      Delete
    3. It must be nice to have a crystal ball and be telepathic at the same time. "61% of French WILL vote to leave, there WILL be no EU". If anything doesn't merit discussion, It's your baseless and speculative assertions.

      Delete
    4. I'm for real Scottish independence. Freedom from subservience to London and Brussels. So it was Brexit for me on Thursday and onwards to indyref2

      Delete
    5. Pretty impressive talent, knowing the exact percentage result of a referendum which hasn't even been called yet. You must've cleaned up on Friday morning.

      Delete
  22. I've created a petition at https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions, please sign it https://petition.parliament.uk/…/sponso…/bvLoKAvbE12D7xfcsqh
    I was horrified to see the result of the referendum yesterday, and I hope you were too.
    In my opinion there was a democratic deficit in the referendum, and on those grounds I have created a petition through the UK Government's official channels. Please click the link, https://petition.parliament.uk/…/sponso…/bvLoKAvbE12D7xfcsqh, and forward the link to anyone you think may sign it, in as many ways as you can (Forums, facebook, twitter, reddit, emails, etc)
    Thank you

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Grow up and respect the majority decision. Indyref failure in 2014 hurt like hell but I respected the wishes of my fellows.

      Delete
    2. This is a democracy. People can campaign for what they believe in.

      Delete
    3. My whole point is that this could have been more democratic, and that the majority isn't insurmountable for those not granted a vote that arguably should have been.

      Delete
    4. The result of the referendum was close enough that if a fair suffrage had been used (as in indyref) the result could've been different. Now millions of people who were disenfranchised are being told they just have to live with it.

      Delete
  23. BBC's Glenn Campbell just said on twitter that Survation are running a poll on whether there should be an Indyref2 ....

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    1. The track record of the polls recently is not too encouraging. I would rather James conducted these polls as he pointed out that Leave were doing better than the polls were suggesting with all their methodical changes.

      Delete
    2. @Marcia, the favorability for indyref1 in early polling was poor and you saw what happened, 55% NO.

      Until test polling shows a solid level of support above 50% and likely higher, indyref2 should be on low heat.

      George Stewart

      Delete
    3. Polling also needs to ask; Independence with future EU membership and Indepndence without EU membership.

      There will be people that support independence but not if it means joining the EU and that may be enough of a percentage meaning independence is lost.

      Remember there will be NO indyref3.

      George Stewart

      Delete
    4. There's no particular reason to believe your last sentence is true. Who said before indyref1 that there might be a second?

      Delete
    5. The Best of Both Worlds ;)June 25, 2016 at 3:32 PM

      You forget, Independence is a structure and system of governance, not a party vote from now until the end of time.

      When we are Independent, should any scottish party wish to leave in the future, they can stand for the Scottish parliament on that platform, put it in their manifesto and let Scottish Democracy decide.

      Delete
  24. Scotland is fortunate that it MAY get another bite at the apple for independence but I say this very soberly because decision making on this appears not to be very sober, there is a single chance in all of our lifetime to get this right.

    It was not that long ago that 55% said NO. In my mind that was the Scottish people saying "we are too wee and poor." Sorry to say that but its the cold hard truth. My parents emigrated from Scotland because it was too wee and poor, when I returned to the UK I was reminded of that before they passed.

    I was deprived of the voting franchise in that election because I do not live in Scotland, something that should be fought for in the next indyref. Regardless, my family has financially supported and been members of the SNP for decades.

    To be honest all this wind and mouth movement of the last few days is like Dorothy clicking her shoes but instead of landing in Kansas we will be independent and instantly part of the EU. It is fantasy that we will either be in Kansas or instantly in the EU.

    Two days ago a large number of Scots 39% said LEAVE the EU. You have to assume that is the base number that will reject indyref2.

    I voted Leave because my partner is non-EU meaning we did face discrimination in coming to the UK that we would not have faced as a family if I was say Austrian with a non-EU partner. I would prefer a Scotland free of Westminster and Brussels BUT if the path to freedom is through Brussels I will take it.

    I can only hope that Nichola and activists slow down and start thinking......

    Indyref1 FAILED in alleviating the real concern of money as in a Scottish Treasury and payment of the state pension. That needs to be answered with something other than Project Hope.

    Lets say we have indyref2 in 2017....fine, when will I get my passport that says Scotland/European Union so I have freedom of movement in the EU? Sadly, when you answer that question its going to be decades which means do I want to give up the United Kingdom today which will have an EU "partner agreement" for the hope that I will still be alive when Scotland completes all the EU accession chapters. Remember, I just came off a referendum where I was told it takes forever to join the EU. If Turkey is not going to join the EU until 3000, when will Scotland be eligible?

    They will not need Project Fear 3, they can run on Project Doubt. Do you want to be outside the United Kingdom and outside the European Union?

    To be blunt.....

    The Scottish Parliament needs to start governing with a lot more powers to gain the trust of the people. It needs more powers from Westminster and returned powers from Brussels. Success in governing will gain support for independence.

    The UK needs to negotiate Leave so the Scottish people can then decide if an independence pledge to join the EU which is NOT guaranteed is worth the risk of being in union with the UK.

    The EU today does have significant risk which includes mandatory adoption of the Euro. Project Fear for indyref2 simply needs to be showing Greece with 50% plus youth unemployment. Voters will need to be shown how and why Scotland will not turn into Greece, especially considering the collapse in oil prices.

    I desperately want an independent Scotland but I am very sober in realizing that there will only be one chance at another vote. We collectively failed at a moment when everything was positive to win and I believe that today and for the rest of this Parliament, indyref2 would fail...fail for a lifetime.

    Scotland needs independece. I agree!!

    How do you get there? A "snap" referendum will not get us there.

    The analogy is that we need to start a campfire but instead of having a box of matches we have a single match and its wet.

    The Scottish Parliament needs more powers to show it can govern and the people need to see what post Leave UK looks like and see what the EU actually looks like in a few years.

    George Stewart

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Here is the anti-indyref slogan;
      ---
      Scotland, Out of the EU-Out of the United Kingdom
      ___

      and

      ___

      Scotland will need to adopt the Euro in order to join the EU. Alex Tsiparas could not save Greece from the EU Troika can Nichola Sturgeon protect Scotland from the EU Troika?

      (Then do adverts which consist of interviews of impoverished Greeks.)
      ______

      Delete
    2. It was not that long ago that 55% said NO. In my mind that was the Scottish people saying "we are too wee and poor." Sorry to say that but its the cold hard truth.

      Your cold hard truth is an utterly subjective opinion.

      I voted No, and I was perfectly happy that Scotland could stand on it's own two feet economically and wasn't 'too' anything.
      I just preferred being part of what was in my opinion a larger, more diversified economy with better shock resistance and superior economies of scale.

      But much as I like being in the worlds 5th biggest economy (6th now I believe after Thursday), I happen to like being in the worlds single biggest trading bloc an awful lot more.

      In short, don't generalise. Different people voted No for very different reasons. Some will stay that way no matter what, others will look at what happened this week and change their mind.

      Delete
    3. Project ScotlandJune 25, 2016 at 3:15 PM

      "The Scottish Parliament needs to start governing with a lot more powers to gain the trust of the people."

      Forgive me, but you appear to be showing your sizeable distance from the reality of Scottish politics with that comment.

      Perhaps you misspoke but "Gain" implies something that is very, very far from the case.

      We have no significant problems with trust in Nicola. The last two elections and the EU referendum should have been informative in that regard.

      Nor will skimming over the amusingly threadbear "powers" westminter VOWed to us do anything other than waste a few minutes of our time.

      The truth is we didn't get to where we are now without being able to both govern competently and engage in meaningful and significant campaigns simultaneously.

      That the No campaign will rerun another attempt at Project Fear is hardly a surprise. What matters is how the Scottish public respond to it and they seem ill-disposed to yet more witless scaremongering after tory and Labour chaos.

      It is also undeniable that we now have ample proof of where project fear lied the first time which, in conjunction with the obvious failure of the VOW, puts them on the back foot not us.

      There is also the small matter of precisely who is going to be front and centre for No for IndyRef2

      Right now it looks like it will be the tories and the likes of Ruth Davidson. Which is great news for us, I assure you.

      Even if Labour officially support No they will struggle to find anyone daft enough to do it very publicly alongside the tories after 2014.

      That's just the cold harsh reality and truth of where they are and where we are.

      Doesn't mean it will be easy and nobody is saying it will be. The point is that we do actually know where things stand but we have the people and the will to do the job, no matter how hard we have to work to achieve it.

      Delete
    4. Mick, I think that's the longest post I've ever seen you make without using either LOL or shrieking.

      Delete
    5. Definitely not another PB concern trollJune 25, 2016 at 3:55 PM

      Don't you have Stormfront Lite to post abuse at immigrants/wet tories/dry tories/kipper tories?

      Not Aldo

      Delete
    6. Now that the UK as a whole has voted to leave the EU, while in Scotland a majority has voted to stay, the procedure of Article 50 TEU could be used to allow the UK (minus Scotland) to withdraw from the EU, while Scotland would be entitled to pursue the UK’s EU Membership.

      While the Article 50 TEU solution would not do away with all legal and political obstacles, it would be less uncertain than the options of going through Article 48 or 49 TEU.

      Expanding this argument, it is clear that a first precondition is that a ‘fault line’ within the UK would manifest itself on 23 June following the referendum has now been met.
      In this regard, Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has already stated that that ‘a vote to leave the European Union against Scotland’s wishes would “almost certainly” trigger another independence referendum.’

      If that second referendum on Scottish independence results in a vote for Independence, the necessary preconditions for using Article 50 TEU as a backdoor to EU membership would be met.

      Although Article 50 TEU only prescribes the procedure for a Member State (e.g. the UK) to leave the EU, this provision can also serve to govern the withdrawal of only a part of a state (e.g. England, Wales and Northern-Ireland) and as a legal basis to keep an Independent Scotland in the EU in the context of a Brexit – under the condition that there is a political consensus for this among the three parties involved (i.e. the EU, Scotland and the UK minus Scotland).

      The negotiations foreseen in Article 50 TEU would then have two main aims: defining the EU’s relationship with the UK (minus Scotland) post-Brexit and adapting the terms of the UK’s EU membership to Scotland (i.e. adjusting them to Scotland’s size).

      While under international law, Scotland would become a new legal entity, in the EU legal order it could remain being regarded as the Member State that joined in 1973. At least one remaining difficulty (under international law) would be the succession of obligations in relation to the many mixed agreements concluded between the EU and the Member States (on the one side) and third countries (on the other side). For each of these treaties, an agreement should be reached with each third state concerned on the proper identity of its ‘UK’ counterparty.

      Still, from the perspective of the EU legal order this solution would allow Scotland to keep the UK’s opt-outs (subject to a possible renegotiation in the Article 50 TEU procedure) and it would allow for a smooth transition between being part of the EU as a region of a Member State and as a Member State in its own right.

      After all, Article 50 TEU allows for the postponement of the actual withdrawal (as long as necessary, given the need to first conclude an intra-UK agreement on Scottish independence) if the European Council agrees so unanimously. This unanimity requirement should not be too problematic, since Scottish EU membership would be linked to the UK’s withdrawal. Even if some Member States might have (domestic) reasons to hinder Scottish EU membership, it is in everyone’s interest to have the UK withdraw in an orderly fashion.

      Forging a package deal between the two issues could then be Scotland’s easiest road to EU membership.

      Delete
  25. I'm a Federalist and an Internationalist. I don't care where people come from, and I want fewer borders, not more, so I was a perfectly content No voter. I don't like Nationalists, but I care no more for the UK than I do for Scotland. In my eyes all countries are arbitrary.

    But now I am being forced to choose between the UK and Europe, so my vote has to change along with it. I despise Farage as a little Englander, and I expect that is exactly what he's going to be left with.

    And I hope London goes Federal or becomes a European free zone as well. It has the population, the position and the money to make it work.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How can you be an Inter-Nationalist without first being a Nationalist?

      Delete
    2. Because ideally I wouldn't like any countries at all. But if we're going to have them, I'd rather they were as large and as inclusive as possible. Free trade, free movement and no immigration restrictions.

      So for me, EU trumps UK.

      Delete
    3. Having no countries means either no state at all (anarchy) or one-world government. Which of those is your ideal?

      Delete
    4. The latter, although if we're being philosophical I'd rather see people organise along shared values and interests instead of something as prosaic as an accident of geography, or worse yet, where our parents happened to be when they went into labour.

      Delete
  26. Just answered an online yougov poll asking about the EU referendum and Scottish Indepedence so with that and Survation in the field we should get a feel for what impact the result has. I expect at least 55/45 in favour of Yes. If its 60/40 or higher I expect we have an Indyref in March 2017

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. We'll see. Safe to say there is a wee bit of a trust gap in polling right now. So I doubt anyone will base everything on polls, betting markets or westminster bubble pundits for the foreseeable. ;)

      Delete
  27. If any members of the labour part in S******d are reading these comments have a think.

    If every single non-voter in Scotland on Thursday was for remain it would have needed a turnout of over 99% before the UK result changes.

    Also Duncan H. Just die quietly you horrible little maggot. 1984 was written about people like you. Doublethinking, history-changing party uber-loyalists. In other words, scum.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Glasgow Working Class 2June 25, 2016 at 5:32 PM

    Seems you Nat sis have forgotten this was an inclusive UK poll and the result should be respected. No one objected to the Nat sis that were voted in at the Genersl Election and Scottish Election. You Nat sis do seem to object to democeacy when you lose but are happy to accept when you win. You are playing a dangerous game when inviting former EU countries to intervene in the sovereign UK. It would be an act of belligerence for any EU country to interfere in UK matters. Be warned idiots.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Unless anyone is planning on forcing something through without majority support then it's perfectly democratic, thank you.

      We could have another EU referendum next week and reverse the result if we want. We could vote to become independent next year, and then vote to become the 52st state of America the year after that.
      We can decide that every third left-handed person has to fight to the death in a Hunger Games style face-off at Hampden every August.

      We can do anything we like, so long as people vote for it. That's kind of how democracy works.

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working Class 2June 25, 2016 at 6:32 PM

      I am left handed. Seems you are proposing a refendum every week. I will have to use my right hand which is not preferable. Left handed people are sensible and pragmatic and do not want the country to grind to a halt with referendums.

      Delete
    3. Some people like democracy providing it is on their terms and their conditions.

      Delete
    4. Glasgow Working Class 2June 25, 2016 at 7:44 PM

      Lovely name, Angela.

      Delete
  29. I once put my penis in a dwarfs mouth and asked him to "take me higher".

    Aldo

    ReplyDelete
  30. I'm 42 and still wake up covered in my own sperm and faeces. Peppa Pig, David Attenborough and Meatloaf are coming to my Wendy-house to drop MDMA and eat human flesh.

    Aldo

    ReplyDelete
  31. When I am Emperor of Mars, I will take revenge on my enemies by making them watch my Pee-wee Herman videos whilst shaving my vast army of intersex ducks.

    Aldo

    ReplyDelete