Friday, April 22, 2016

Devastated Dugdale starts praying for a "Bobby Ewing in the shower" moment after savage Survation survey extinguishes all other hope for Scottish Labour

Constituency ballot :

SNP 53% (+1)
Lab 18% (-3)
Conservatives 17% (+1)
Liberal Democrats 7% (+1)

Regional list ballot :

SNP 43% (-1)
Conservatives 18% (+2)
Labour 17% (-2)
Greens 11% (+1)
Liberal Democrats 7% (n/c)
UKIP 4% (n/c)

A Poll of Polls update can be found HERE.

Explanatory note : As a fond tribute to the mainstream media's restrained take on the GERS report, Scot Goes Pop headlines will contain 50% bonus hysteria for an indefinite period.

107 comments:

  1. On the constituency,we have Labour polling 43% of the unionist vote.That must hurt.

    Could someone post a link to the tables when they're published,please?

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  2. #doomeddug trending?

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  3. Right wing vote at 22% - impressive!

    Meanwhile, the SNP are looking a bit low on the list - looks like there will be quite a lot of SNP/Green split ticket voters.

    And this is yet another poll that shows tories in 2nd place.

    Interesting!

    Aldo

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    1. The SNP aren't looking low on the list - this is typical for Survation, who use a dubious question for the list vote.

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  4. The question now becomes :-

    Can Scottish Labour hold off the Greens and stay in third place?

    /chortle

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    Replies
    1. If the Greens overtook Labour, even I'd laugh.

      Aldo

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    2. Big lolz! (Maybe just me, but that's the funniest comment I've read all day.)

      Delete
  5. James

    You will dislike this observation intensely. But if those figures are correct SNP would sweep all the constituencies. There is little harm in some SNP supporters giving their list votes to other pro-Indy groups where they are deserving. I would give my list vote to Tommy Sheridan were I in Glasgow. It would then have the full weight of one vote, and not count as an eighth of a vote as it would if given to the SNP.

    If I lived where the anti-gay and anti-abortion bigot Sophie Coyle tops the SNP list, I would not give the SNP my list vote. Would you? Not a hypothetical question - I should like an answer.

    As it happens, I am giving both my own votes to the SNP, because of where I live and who are the candidates. But I find the unthinking rigidity of your own position puzzling.

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    1. And you may dislike my response even more intensely, Craig, because "if" is literally the only word in your point that matters. If pre-election polls were accurate "predictions", Ed Miliband would currently be Prime Minister, and Neil Kinnock would be a distinguished ex-PM.

      This nonsense about SNP votes only "counting for one-eighth" seems to be taking root in some quarters, but it really is nonsense. Maybe I'll devote a whole blogpost to that point when I have more time.

      I live in Central Scotland where Sophia Coyle is standing, and yes of course I'll be voting SNP on the list. I want an SNP majority government.

      Delete
    2. only mugs thoughts Miliband would be pm. I argued for months it would be Cameron and made plenty of cash on it too. Looking for a place to unload on SNP majority and on SNP majority based on constituencies alone. Do you have a link to the data tables by the way? thanks

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    3. In any case, putting the poll figures into Scotland Votes shows SNP winning 68 constituencies, not 73. What % shift would be needed for that to drop to 64? Who thinks the best way to gain independence is for the SNP to lose their majority? That's the risk tactical voters are taking.

      Delete
    4. Scotland votes is rubbish. Anyway, a 53% vote for SNP given the split of the rest will easily return a majority for SNP.

      The key point when compared with the 2011 Holyrood election is the collapse in the Labour vote. This means that if SNP defied every single poll in the last year and got only 45.4% of the constituency vote (and they'll get a lot more than that), they'd get much than the 53 they got on the constituency in 2011. Try it for yourself. Just take 10 percent off labour 2011 give the tories 5 and others 5 (UKIP it's called but would also capture RISE, and green etc). SNP are predicted with the rubbish Scotland votes calculator as getting a majority on the constituency alone with 45% of the vote. And it makes sense as their competition in the vast majority of seats has collapsed.

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    5. Cutbot seat forecast based on this poll is even more on a knife-edge - 64+3 seats to the SNP as they somewhat surprisingly give Glasgow Kelvin and Edinburgh Central seats to the Greens(!), 5 seats to the Conservatives and Orkney & Shetland to the LibDems.

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    6. I think the complexity of the Scottish electoral system makes this election very difficult to call. I use the Scotland Votes calculator but it is my understanding that it doesn't consider regional splits in its calculations - is that correct? So you could have Greens on 10% of the list vote but if most of those votes are concentrated in one area (Glasgow for example), then they may face an uphill struggle in actually converting their votes into seats.

      Going forward I think we need a simpler system for the Holyrood parliament. These voting systems should be transparent and easy to understand. How likely is it that your ordinary man in the street, chosen at random, understands the D'Hondt system? You could have two chambers - one constituency based (AV), one pure PR (varying in size as required to represent the proportion of the vote won by each party).

      Aldo

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    7. Cutbot seen to have some technical problems in that they are allocating all the Other's vote nationally to whichever constituency candidates standing. Of course the vast majority of the people who say they are voting Green will turn up and find they can't vote for them in the constituency, but Cutbot seems to squeeze all those votes into two constituencies (less so Coatbridge) giving them a big 'swing' on top of an initial 2011 'vote' that didn't actually exist but which they put in the high teens.

      Delete
    8. The thing is, nobody needs to understand d'Hondt. Vote in the constituency for the candidate you prefer. There may be some tactical voting here, but it's the same equation as in Westminster seats and people seem to manage.

      Vote on the list for the party you support, or the party you really want to see in government.

      End of. All this malarkey about "but what if the party I want to see in government gets a lot of constituency seats" is angels dancing on the head of a pin and is muddying the waters to no good effect. Down that rabbit hole madness lies. It's Russian roulette with five barrels loaded.

      Just vote for the party whose policies you most identify with or which you'd prefer to form the government (if these aren't the same thing, which in most cases they will be) and the result will be fair.

      Delete
  6. Sorry of course it is a hypothetical question! But I should still be grateful for your answer.

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    1. I have encountered this type of argument before. The lists have people like Anus, Jabbba, Rennie, Dippity Dug and Tank Commander on them.

      It is in the nature of the list system used here that the voters don't get to select which candidates they elect. It is for the party ( members sometimes ) to rank those.

      The SNP is a broad church with the highest percentage of elected MP's of any party being gay. But it also has elected members of many faiths - ad none, many differing political positions and many shades of opinion on all manner of issues. I have encountered voters for whom the sexuality of my SNP candidate is a problem. In my opinion it is of no interest who they sleep with.

      So if I was to accept that the voter was 100% right to be concerned and to decline to vote SNP because they were biased against my lesbian candidate would that be fine by your measure?

      The SNP is a party which seeks to restore Scotland's independence. Above all the other differences, the candidates agree that is their top priority. That and the competent record in government are why you vote SNP. I do not agree with the views of several candidates on the theme you highlight. But they represent a view which is shared by some in the community. Hold your nose and vote in that knowledge, but realise that our LGBT record stands up to scrutiny.

      Delete
  7. 11% for the Greens is just nonsense. They aren't sitting in half the seats!

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    1. Ermm, they're fielding candidates in all the regional lists.

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    2. They are standing in all the regions... which is what the part of the poll that mentions the Greens is measuring. Anyone in Scotland will be able to cast their second vote for the Greens.

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    3. We get more UKIPers on our canvasses. Suburbs. Central belt. Not had a single green yet myself.

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  8. I do not think it is a coincidence that the SNP list vote in poll after poll appears to be roughly equal to the SNP constituency vote minus the Green list vote. That may just be the real Green vote that has decided to vote SNP in the constituencies due to the lack of a pro-indy alternative. On the other hand, it may down to a successful "split your indy vote" campaign by the Greens. If so, it could damage the indy cause if the SNP constituency vote is being over-egged by the polls and more unionists get elected than is being predicted in the constituencies.

    In my opinion, the SNP list and constituency votes will converge on polling day as any "split voters" get a bit jittery about the risks of that strategy and go SNPx2 at the last moment. Just as some Yes voters got jittery in the final days of the referendum and voted No at the last minute. Its human nature.

    Me Bungo Pony

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  9. An interesting poll. We will need to see what the actual question wording for the List was as the exact wording can make a difference.

    If there is a grain of truth in the Constituency figures then it will be difficult for some existing mainland non-SNP MSP's to buck the trend unless they have a sizeable concentration of support in their particular seat.

    In 2011 Labour only dropped a half a percentage point in the Constituency vote mainly because the LD vote collapse and masked the defection from Labour to SNP. This time there is no votes spare to offset what looks like a mass defection from Labour to the SNP.

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    1. Marcia the questions Survation ask (according to the tables) are:

      Q2. In the next Scottish Parliament election you will be given two votes. Your first vote will be for a single person to represent your constituency in the Scottish Parliament. If the election were tomorrow, which party would you be most likely to vote for with your first, constituency vote?


      Q3. Your second vote will be a party list vote to elect representatives from your region of Scotland by a form of proportional representation. If the election were tomorrow, which party would you be most likely to vote


      I'm not quite sure what James's objections are, unless he's thinking of a previous version. I suppose you could include "you may may vote for the party you voted for in the constituency or a different one" but most people seem to realise that from the voting patterns and I don't think other pollsters are that explicit either. Indeed you might argue that such wording might encourage people to switch.

      Delete
  10. erratum - This time there are no votes spare to offset what looks like a mass defection from Labour to the SNP. The Labour vote went up in a few seat in 2011 because they attracted disaffected LD votes.

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  11. The Survation table can be located here;

    http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/Full-Scomnibus-III-Tables-100316DCCH-1c0d5h1-1803.pdf

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    1. ignore - sorry folks those tables are for the last poll and not today's.

      Delete
  12. Any thoughts on what it will mean for the Unionist cause if SCON supplants SLAB as the main opposition? It would mean the SNP's only opponent which has ever formed a government in Scotland, and which could plausibly do so in the remotely foreseeable future, would be turned into a total sideshow.

    If I were a big Unionist, I'd want Labour to hang onto second place, or any prospect of getting rid of the Nats recedes even further into the background.

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    1. I know what you mean. But you could also take the view that if conservatism in Scotland can be given a boost (and becoming the official opposition is one hell of a boost), then it badly damages the nationalist narrative of Scotland being ruled by a party that it never votes for - namely the conservatives. If you begin removing the underlying reasons for the Nationalists' popularity then eventually they will crumble. Perhaps that is a better strategy than having a Labour opposition that doesn't really oppose and has, in my opinion, gone soft on upholding the union. They are embarrassed about their role in the referendum - the tories couldn't be more proud.

      And for that reason alone, Ruth Davidson will be getting my votes.

      Aldo

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    2. I'm not really sure having the Tories as the only strong unionist party in Scotland would really be a 'blow for the SNP'. Quite the opposite I'd have thought. It would be a bit like having say the BNP as the only unionist party of note, just slightly less awkward.

      It was the Labour vote and the fact that Labour still win sometimes in London that has held the UK together since the Tories became a minor party post-1997.

      Also, is 1-2% up on May 2015 really a 'boost'? Isn't that more 'going nowhere', particularly given the collapse of Labour should have opened up opportunities for grabbing votes?

      Oh and Goldie was getting much higher ratings than Ruth ahead of May 2011. Worth noting.

      Delete
    3. then it badly damages the nationalist narrative of Scotland being ruled by a party that it never votes for - namely the conservatives.

      "Badly damages" is a stretch. Scotland still wouldn't have voted for the Conservatives. On this poll, they'd be joint third with Labour in terms of share of the vote, miles behind the SNP, 10% behind Labour at Westminster - and yet still our government.

      There's certainly some truth in the idea that any convergence of the political situations in Scotland and the rUK weakens the case for independence, but it's hard to see how a minor shift like this (due far more to Labour's collapse than any slight strengthening by the Tories) outweighs the benefit to the SNP of seeing their primary opponents annihilated and replaced by considerably less dangerous ones.

      Delete
    4. I'd be happier if it was still Anabelle.

      I think for all the public bluster, Ruthie might be more pragmatic. SLAB voted against things last term just because the SNP suggested them. And perhaps the quality of PMQ's will improve when the questions are not being asked by such poor excuses for representatives as Labour sent to Holyrood last time.

      But which side will Union Jackie take once the Labour party are neither the government nor the official opposition? The MOT are the ones with the biggest problem. Who do they hate more? SNP or RDP?

      Delete
    5. Really Skier - the BNP! Lol. Such a silly comparison!

      Last time I looked the BNP wanted to send back "the blacks" in return for agreeing to purchase their bananas. They wanted to scrap the Northern Ireland peace deal, ban abortion, outlaw gay marriage and implement economically Marxist policies. To compare the Tories with them is just plain nonsensical.

      Delete
  13. Here is the Survation tables - looks like small changes to the Records figures ; http://survation.com/april-holyrood-voting-intention-survation-daily-record/

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  14. http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/Scomnibus-IV-15661626471-140416DCCH-1c0d0h5.pdf

    Looking at the actual polling data you can see where the way of asking the questions falls down. There have been various attempts since the first election to stop people thinking of the list vote being a second choice.

    Table 6 on Page 9 shows a lot of voters who seem to be voting a split, even between parties that you'd not think would happen. However it does seem a lot of SNP constituency voters are voting Green. 43 out of 445 on the adjusted total. Surprisingly the next non-SNP pick for someone who intends to vote SNP at constituency level is 24 undecided.

    In other words there a category of undecided voter who might opt for SNP or Green on the day boosting both their votes.

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    1. This is indeed important, a smart tactical voter will wait till the last possible moment to make the most accurate prediction based on the polling. I'm 90% sure that a SNP/Green split vote will be the best outcome in Glasgow but I will wait till the day before to make up my mind.

      The real problem is the idiots who will be voting for Solidarity or RISE who have no chance of winning an MSP but may well deny the Greens a second list seat in Glasgow at least (probably not elsewhere).

      It needs to be made clear that a Split vote is ONLY SNP/Green and cannot work if its SNP/(another Indy party). A vote for Solidarity or RISE is 100% a wasted vote in all circumstances.

      Delete
  15. If Labour is polling 43% of the pro union vote in Scotland,how does that compare with Labour in England? I think it will very similair.So it could be argued Kezia Dugdale is doing rather well as Labour Party leader in Scotland.

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    1. Labour in England have twice the vote share that SLAB do, and are only a few points behind the Tories (occasionally even overtaking them). And this is up against a UK government which has been in office for three years less than the SNP. It's hard to see how anyone could argue that Kezia is doing well.

      Jim Murphy will be relieved: "least successful SLAB leader of all time" may be about to be removed from his epitaph.

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    2. Aye,but they have a similair share of the pro union vote in Scotland as they do in England ie a bit under half.

      Delete
    3. Shouldn't SLAB be trying to reach pro-independence voters too?

      Delete
  16. The yoons are panicking, their union in its death throws. And there is nothing they can do.

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    1. Glasgow Working Class 2April 22, 2016 at 6:44 PM

      The Union is strong and the Scots voted to remain just in case you had forgotten.
      Maybe the Dug would prefer a Babs in the shower moment.

      Delete
    2. And thats the rest of the thread fuc#ed. Cock of the north is back on his shift again.

      Get yourself a life, you sad troll bastard.

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2April 22, 2016 at 8:25 PM

      The joke Natsi in usual form fash form.

      Delete
    4. Don't feed the troll.

      Delete
  17. The reason that English Labour is doing so much better than SLAB, is simply the Constitutional Question.

    Every single poll for months have projected that the Pro Indy Parties will hold a very substantial majority in Holyrood and the Pro Union Parties will be picking up the scraps.

    That "problem" is the determinant factor between Corbyn and Dugdale.

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    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2April 22, 2016 at 8:32 PM

      The Unionists won the referendum. The Unionists are divided by ideology unlike the Nat sis who like sheep toe the line.
      Socialism is now dead in the Nat si party. Tory policies are now the domain of the Nat si Tartan Tories.
      There will be no referendum in Scotland now for around at least a decade.
      Tory policies will prevail if the Nat sis retain power.

      Delete
    2. Sad.

      You are a busted flush, McGibbon - that's why I don't really bother with you any more, now.

      Your increasing hatred of the Party that most Scots support is pathetic to watch.

      The consolation, however, is that you do not matter a shit.

      The more you squeak in your wee corner, the dumber and more out of touch you become.

      You are even giving Trolls a bad name, sonny.

      Just do yourself and everyone else a favour and piss off, like the non-entity you have become.

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2April 22, 2016 at 9:55 PM

      Aye auld yin the Scots majority voted Naw. Of course Nat sis are never concerned about majorities are they!
      And the consolation is you lost and no one will remember you.

      Delete
    4. Stop quoting history, you cretin.

      This is about the Holyrood Election, not what happened two years ago.

      The fact is that the Unionist Parties are gonna get yet another kicking in 2016, after the kicking they got in 2015.

      Scottish People will, yet again, elect the SNP for another 5 years and the Unionist Parties will be, yet again,booted in their falsies.

      As Cameron's personal standing with Scots sinks to that of a ripe turd and the word "Conservative" is totally banned from all Scottish hustings/platforms, by wee Ruthie - and Kezia sinks lower poll by poll - the writing on the wall is now so large that even Planks like you can see it.

      Unionism is losing up here, sonny - it is not even close any more.


      Time is definitely not on your poor, wee sycophantic side any more.

      Happy Days, Fanny.

      Delete
    5. Glasgow Working Class 2April 22, 2016 at 11:06 PM

      The Nat sis being elected again is par for the course. I have lived with Tories being in government for decades.

      Delete
    6. You would rather the Tories kept ultimate control of Scotland from WM, rather that have Scotland control itself from Holyrood.

      You are pure gutter-trash, sonny.

      Delete
    7. Glasgow Working Class 2April 23, 2016 at 12:48 PM

      You would rather the Nat si Tartan Tories kept control of Scotland. And less of the insults Muppet.
      And Westminster English taxpayers subsidise you.

      Delete
    8. Nope, Tosser.

      I want Scotland ruled from Holyrood - irrespective of which Party is/are the Scottish Govt.

      I also trust the Scottish People to keep the Tories out of power up here.

      I want Independence you idiot - so that would mean no "subsidies" from anyone.

      Delete
    9. David, please don't feed the omnishambles.

      Delete
  18. Considering the level of supposed support for the Greens on the list vote am I alone in thinking the Fiberal % is way too high as well? On both votes?

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    1. Lib Dems don't translate into national polls well. They have concentrated support in certain areas - indeed, they increased the number of votes cast for them in several of the seats they were defending during 2015, even as they lost 240,000 votes nationally.

      In any case, their national share last year was 7.5%. So the polls suggests little has changed for them. Their decline has turned into a plateau, which is something Scottish Labour can't say yet.

      Delete
  19. Labour and Tory have little more than a third of the vote between them.

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  20. FAO: GWC2
    Are you the BUCKFAST dimension to "Aldo"'s champagne fascist, uber BritNat proclivities?

    An interesting cocktail.

    Could you two patent it before Scotland walks away from the faux Union? Am sure the hardcore, bevvy merchant Loyal Citrus Fruit Ludges would buy it by the gallon squared (a nice wee top up on your pitiful GCHQ bungs).

    A niche product well worth the schizophrenic pair of you considering?

    Sling in some orange juice, and the pair of you will be minted rapid time.

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    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2April 22, 2016 at 11:18 PM

      I have visited Buckie Abbey but the Buckie is piss watter. I prefer cider mixed wie lannie or 365.
      OK David I know you need to keep your sense of humour after the devastation on 19 Sept 2014 and do carry on if it gives you comfort. Did you get councelling to alleviate the trauma?

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working Class 2April 22, 2016 at 11:35 PM

      David, did ye staun in front of the telly and toast the Queen fur her burthday. You leftie Nat sis voted to retain her! You must be as auld as Queenie.
      Oh Aye you voted to stay in NATO!!

      Delete
    3. David

      Please ignore the troll as most posters have agreed to do.

      Delete
    4. Glasgow Working Class 2April 23, 2016 at 12:07 AM

      Angela the Nat si is up late. You should be looking efter the weans and leaving this tae the men hen.

      Delete
    5. Don't feed the troll.

      Delete
  21. Hey there! I'm Mr Big dick. I guess you guys all know why the hot chicks call me that. yeah. Yeah I guess you better vote SNP and then maybe SNP or green and then get the hot chicks in ow yea.

    Mr Big Dick

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  22. Ruth's negative net favourablity has nearly doubled from -6% to -11% in the latest Survation series for the Record.

    #RuthDavidsonforaStrongNoSurrendertotheSNPStrengthOpposition

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    1. Not to worry. The Guardian will continue to describe her in every article as "popular", in the face of all the evidence.

      Delete
    2. Glasgow Working Class 2April 23, 2016 at 12:43 PM

      Whits wrang wie you Nat sis you are going tae win but you carry on wie the character assassination. Big butch Ruth is OK. You Nat sis are just pursuing Tory policies so you should be friends with her.

      Delete
    3. Don't feed the troll.

      Delete
  23. Interesting to see that when asked the Independence question, Yes is up to over 48%.

    As someone mentioned on another sites comments, just over 150,000 people who voted No have now switched to Yes!

    With the shipyard news breaking, I think we might be getting a few thousand more over the next few days!

    Slowly but surely...

    ReplyDelete
  24. Glasgow Working Class 2April 23, 2016 at 5:06 PM

    Aye paddie me bhoy just make up figures as you go along. We voted for the Union so do have some respect for the people Nat si bhoy.
    I am sure you actually want the yards to close.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Don't feed the troll.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2April 23, 2016 at 9:48 PM

      Twa winters of disconntent have passed since 19 September 2014 and you nat sis are no further on in fact you have given up. Your leadership is taking the money and have sold you out. Fukkin mugs you are.

      Delete
    2. Don't feed the troll.

      Delete
  26. Johann Lamont, Anas Sarwar, John Reid, Ian Davidson, and Margaret Curran were all prominent in promoting the idea that Scottish shipbuilding jobs would only be safe if shipbuilders voted No, yet none of them have had the courage or decency to comment about this latest in the growing numbers of betrayals of NO voters, by the Better Together Campaign.

    Only a snivelling little cap doffer, like our resident troll would be able to look at themselves in a mirror and not admit they have been used as 'useful idiots' by the Tories, after this.

    It's all good though, as it shows that even the Westminster Elite know they can't hold onto Scotland for much longer, so have stopped even trying.

    Slowly but Surely...

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    1. Glasgow Working Class 2April 23, 2016 at 7:05 PM

      Paddie Bhoy you have no interest in Scottish shipyard jobs or indeed others in your quest for independence. Scotland would be a waste yard if we had voted Nat si. The Yards would be closed now along with many other business HQs.
      And if we leave NATO as you liars really want thousands would lose jobs and the Yanks would pull the plug on Scotland.

      Delete
    2. According to Obama, Yanks will pull the plug on the UK if it votes 'Leave' in June. All over the papers.

      LOL.

      Delete
    3. Glasgow Working Class 2April 23, 2016 at 7:33 PM

      That would suit the lefties. LOL. They want out of NATO and Faslane closed. And Obama said Britain would have to Q for a trade deal. Fair enough.

      Delete
    4. You are absolutely correct, Patrick.

      The Tories played the other Unionist Parties for complete fools in IndyRef.

      Cameron had nothing to lose up here, because the Conservatives are basically regarded as shite anyway, by most Scots.

      SLAB/LibDems were swallowed up and spat out by Cameron and Osborne and are now seeing all the promises they signed up to and endorsed, under the Better Together umbrella, falling apart.

      SLAB/LibDems are every bit as much to blame as those Lies are uncovered and will suffer the penalty at the ballot box - as they rightly should.

      Delete
    5. Glasgow Working Class 2April 23, 2016 at 8:48 PM

      Strange how the Scots supposedly do not like shite Tories but vote for the Tartan version who like the blue version will not tax the rich and protect the poor. At least the Blues are honest bastards. And both versions are crawlin tae the EU. You could hardly slip a used condom between them.

      Delete
    6. David

      I don't think they were played. They were willing misguided careerist politicians who would say anything to protect their alternating (your turn tories, then our turn Labout and our turn in rural areas and occasionally enable one of you Lib Dems). They have begun to pay the price but it's not yet complete. The wings article showing up the Clyde ship jobs is illsutrative of exactly that. labour do the Tories bidding on the ships jobs as Tories are loathed. So, Labour tell them their jobs are in danger if they vote Yes. A No vote is returned and Dugdale reports that the Tories must keep their promise. No promise was ever made. Labour is completely and willingly complicit. No mainstream media report will include this basic cartel, this affront to democracy as they too are complicit as for various reasons they are also part of the greed.

      Labour and Lib Dem lied too. Let's hope they get the kick in they deserve.

      Delete
    7. Glasgow Working Class 2April 23, 2016 at 10:44 PM

      The only promise given was if ships are to be built it will be on the Clyde. And it should not be forgotten that Rosyth has a workforce dependent on fitting out ships and other related work. Defense changes like the wind however an Independent Scotland would not get Ruk defense contracts.
      The Scottish Nat sis have to be honest and admit that thousands of Scottish jobs will be lost if we become independent.

      Delete
    8. James why don't you ever deal with this?April 23, 2016 at 11:43 PM

      GWC 2, Gonnae you fuck up McGibbon ya fat ride?

      An IndyScotland would bin Trident and those 'lost jobs' jobs would go to developing a Scottish Defence Force, to build up our Air and Sea defence... you know, for those assets of ours in the North Eea that are currently unprotected, unless we can afford to wait for the wanks downstairs to send us a submarine from the SOUTH COAST OF ENGLAND?

      You're so fucking repetitive, ignorant and dull, you actually fry my brain. Piss off, ya prick!

      Delete
    9. Glasgow Working Class 2April 24, 2016 at 12:09 AM

      You need a brain to engage your hand before wanking. Hope you find it soon. Do not toss the future of Scotland away.

      Delete
    10. Don't feed the troll.

      Delete
  27. Daft question. Can anyone tell me when the count and likely results announcement is?

    I'm thinking to taking Friday off work to listen to the count (I need to get up at 5am otherwise). But I half remember listening to the previous count on Saturday. Am I imagining this?

    I've found it rather hard to find through info online.

    Thanks, Chris

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2April 24, 2016 at 12:15 AM

      Put your pitchfork to effective use and grow vegetables that will vote for the Nat sis.

      Delete
    2. Pitchfork

      The Holyrood count starts immediately after the polls close at 10.00 PM. First results should be from South Lanarkshire count at about 12.45 to 1 AM as it was last time.

      Delete
    3. Here's the expected declaration times, according to the PA.

      http://election.pressassociation.com/Declaration_times/scotland_2016_by_time.php

      Delete
    4. As Marcia says, however, the first declarations will probably be made long before 2am.

      Delete
  28. Thanks Marcia and Piemonteis.

    GWC2 away and hunt yourself.

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    1. Glasgow Working Class 2April 24, 2016 at 11:52 AM

      People who stay up to watch results must be on benefits or something.

      Delete
    2. Yeah, that's why I mentioned I was thinking of going the day off you sad obnoxious Glasgow Moron Second Class edjit.

      Delete
  29. Kezia desperately trying to deflect blame for the shipbuilding fiasco onto her Tory friends, but Nicola points out that people wouldn't have believed promises made by the Tories, but they did believe the promises because they were made by Labour MP/MSP's.

    Labour betrayed the Shipbuilders, just like Labour has betrayed every other group in Scotland, because when all is said and done, the people who 'make it' in Scottish Labour (no laughing at the back) are the people who are prepared to sell out their own.

    People who care about Scotland and who will expose corruption or practices that harm Scots (like transferring large chunks of Scottish Waters into England's hands or keeping the McCrone report secret) are quickly driven out of the party.

    When you read GWC2's comments they ooze contempt for Scotland, so it's no wonder he is one of the dwindling number of useful idiots or low information voters (to give them their polite name) who still think Labour care about Scotland.

    Another day, another time, when McGibbon reaches for his Vaseline and greases his erse up before bending over for his Tory betters.

    Mr McGibbon knows his place.

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    Replies
    1. Glasgow Working Class 2April 24, 2016 at 12:19 PM

      £1 a jar in Poundland Paddie Bhoy.

      Delete
    2. Don't feed the troll.

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    3. Glasgow Working Class 2April 24, 2016 at 9:31 PM

      Whits wrang Tartan Tory Bhoy do you just dislike the fact that I point out you Yellow Tories are impersonating the Blue Tories.

      Delete
    4. Don't feed the troll.

      Delete
  30. As a Marxist, I recommend that most of you read Gramschi apropos the state. The function of neo-nationalism is to challenge the state.

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  31. Glasgow Working Class 2April 24, 2016 at 9:13 PM

    If neo nationalists run the state then who challenges them. And what type of Marxist are you?

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  32. Unionism dead? Not according to the referendum it isn't.

    We are in a situation where we have unionists voting SNP and Green - presumably because of some of their popular left wing policies. When it comes to the union, they will vote no in any secession referendum.

    The SNP itself is slowly becoming a unionist party. No referendum in the next parliament, the 56 living it up in Westminster. They are even drifting into economic conservatism - low taxes prioritised over wealth redistribution. In future UK parliaments, they will quite possibly join with Labour to form governments.

    Considering all of this, the modern SNP are simply Scottish Labour rebranded.

    Aldo

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