Saturday, May 9, 2015

Daily Mail Lie-Watch

Claim from the Daily Mail : "a majority of Scots actually voted for pro-Union parties on Thursday"

Verdict : LIE. 50.0% of the electorate voted SNP, and a further 1.3% voted for the pro-independence Scottish Green Party, making a grand total of 51.3%. By definition, therefore, only a minority of Scots voted for pro-Union parties.

Of course, it would be perfectly fair to point out that not everyone who voted for the pro-independence parties is a supporter of independence (by the same token, not everyone who voted for the unionist parties is an opponent of independence). But that was not the claim the Mail made.

30 comments:

  1. If you're going to be rebutting every lie from the DM, you'll probably need to do the blog full-time. And take on at least half a dozen staff.

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    1. Given the circumstances, I think this particular lie deserved special treatment.

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    2. Yes, it is a lie oft repeated these past 24 hours, and needs to be debunked at every opportunity.

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  2. Actually what we need to do is to fund a Saturday paper listing all that weeks lies in the media. But we would need quite a large team wouldn't we?

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  3. What's really cheered me up Scottish electorate saw thru MSM bullshit(lies)

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  4. Surely the figure the media should be focussing on is that 85% of Scots didn't vote Tory.

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    1. Yes and more importantly,how many English voters didn't vote for the Tories.
      It's not long since we had a referendum on changing the voting system that produces the sort of outcome the English press are getting so exercised about.
      Surely they are not advocating a re-run of that referendum so soon?
      Has there been a radical change of circumstances to justify that position?


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    2. Lies, lies!

      Don't try to make it sound less. It was 85.1% that voted against the Tories.

      :-)

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  5. Thanks James

    As you know better than the rest of us, many many Greens leant their vote to the SNP this election, and were very happy to do so. They were not focused on short-term party interest but on advancing the broader cause, whether one that emphasises independence or emphasises what we need to do with that independence. In the longer term interest of developing a dynamic independent Scotland with a Green-led rather than Unionist-led opposition (rather than taking a Unionist-like tribalist approach that some people in every party take) would you support SNP voters returning the favour on the List vote next May? I wrote about this on Bella but would be really interested in your thinking on this: http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2015/05/03/greens-are-voting-snp-will-snp-voters-return-the-favour/

    Cheers, Justin

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    1. I agree Justin, and I really enjoyed your article. I think there could be a significant increase in Green MSPs via the List Vote next year. I think the SNP- formally or informally- should reach out to the Greens by encouraging their own voters to support the party with their second vote.

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    2. I'm one of the Greens who voted SNP on Thursday. I was happy to do so for the greater good but I'm not sure how to vote for Holyrood.

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    3. Thanks FM - I'm not sure it is up to the parties to do anything on this, I think its best coming from the rest of us.

      Anon - Did you find the suggestion I made in that article about how to vote for Holyrood make any sense to you?

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    4. Yes I can live with an SNP/Green constituency /list vote. What I don't want to see is any green shoots for the red/blue/yellow Tories. That must be avoided at all costs

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    5. Very difficult conundrum. Of course all Green supporters should vote Green on the list next year. I'm not at all convinced that a tactical Green list vote is a good idea for SNP supporters though.

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    6. Justin,

      I will be voting SNP 1, Green 2 next year.

      The Scottish Parliament was set up, deliberately to make it very difficult for one party, the SNP, to have an overall majority.

      However, what was not taken into consideration at the time was that there would be three pro-independence parties who could pick up the list votes.

      Next year will be the time to put real tactical voting into practice with some advice from James Kelly and friends on the best way to do it for different seats and list areas.

      One of the worst things to come out during the campaign was Malcolm Bruce regretting how the SG voting was set up and advocating changes to make it even more difficult for the SNP to get into power. And this from a Party with "Democrat" in its name. Thankfully, they have been wiped out and there will be a long queue for them to get into the HoL.

      I for one would be delighted to vote tactically to block as many unionists as possible and look forward to any advice from our friendly pollsters on the best ways to do it!

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  6. Justin, I'd just like to say that I'm an SNP supporter but with a strong liking for the Greens. My vote will always go to the SNP (unless there is a logical argument for the list vote) until we get independence. After that, I'll vote for whatever is in the best interests of the country. I know I'm not the only person who thinks and votes this way, I just want you to know that I for one think that independence will greatly benefit the Greens and it is appreciated that in the mean time they are making a noble sacrifice for the greater good of us all.

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    1. Hi WJE - If you can have a look at the article and tell me if you think the logic in it holds that would be really helpful I argue that just as so many Greens took the logical route and voted SNP last week, SNP voters should take the logical route and vote SNP for the constituency vote, and Green on the list vote, next year - leading to a debate in Scotland that assumes, and supports, independence as the direction of travel, and focuses on the issues we need to address in the meantime.

      In addition, I think that reorienting our politics onto these constructive debates can really improve out society, and would be the most powerful way of moving the independence cause forward.

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    2. I'm not at all convinced that it's the logical route. I will certainly be voting SNP/SNP next year, and I'm concerned that a large move by SNP voters to a different list vote will seriously damage the SNP's representation.

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  7. My vote will always go to the SNP until independence.

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    1. Absolutely fair enough. I just think we are in the independence zone (we are so clearly on our way to being independent) so we need to think differently about how we enable that to happen. I made a suggestion in that article, but very willing to hear a reasoned argument why I'm wrong. And, if anyone, then I imagine both James and Mike P can come up with an argument that would convince SNP voters which is why I'm asking them. Of course, if your allegiance is the SNP as a party, or Greens as a party, or Labour as a party, then this suggestion will make no sense (and that's fine), but if your allegiance is to independence, to a viable future, to social justice, then I'm asking if it does.

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    2. that should have read "I imagine both James and Mick [not Mike] Pork . . . " - sorry Mick!

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  8. Hi James
    Have been watching the election(s) from afar and wish to thank you for a very informative blog.
    Do you by any chance know why the electoral commission appear to get their results from Aunty?

    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/upcoming-elections-and-referendums

    I was curious to see whether there might be any patterns to postal voting returns in marginal seats (or even seats declared late v seats declared early) but it appears that the information is not yet available for public consumption.

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  9. I think you will find that the people trying to push the less than 50% message are the same ones who were warning everyone just 3 days ago that a vote for the SNP was a vote for a second referendum.

    Great work James, many thanks.

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  10. Off topic, a wee fun competition - who will be the next Secretary of State for Scotland? I can't see Mundell, or any MP for an English (or Welsh) seat. That suggests that the SS for S post may disappear completely. Michael Gove as Secretary of State for Constitutional Reform, anyone?

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    1. It's got to be Fluffy Mundell. He's a political titan, the likes of which Scotland has never seen before.

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  11. Nice one James,

    You can always check out Wiings for debunking all the MSM lies but you beat him to that one. :-)

    p.s. your Derek Bateman link needs updating to http://derekbateman.co.uk he changed it a few weeks ago for some reason.

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  12. Glad that there was no SNP/ Labour coalition at least now the enemy battle lines are clearly marked and the Tories plan to limit the rights of SNP MP's democratic rights i.e so called England only laws raises interesting Constitutional issues

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  13. If the Greens had stood down in Mundells seat, we might now be living in a Tory free country.

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    1. Juteman - It was quite understandable that the SNP chose not to accept standing aside anywhere in exchange for the Greens and SSP standing aside everywhere else, or for us all to stand as the Yes Alliance, but my question for James K and Mick P is based on wanting us to continue the unity, diversity and inclusiveness of the Yes movement, and let that carry us to success, rather than blame any party for anything. It seems to me that to do can't involve asking any party to step aside anywhere, but needs voters to use our votes intelligently.

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