Sunday, September 28, 2014

A suggestion for Labour : why not let George Galloway deliver the "Devo SUPER Max" that he promised to the voters on your behalf?

I gather that Labour are the only one of the five main Holyrood parties that still haven't announced their two nominees for Lord Smith's devolution commission.  I therefore have a constructive suggestion to make.  Given that Labour showed such inspiring ecumenicism by nominating George Galloway of all people to directly speak on their behalf at the big referendum TV debate at the Hydro, and given that Galloway used that platform to solemnly promise the viewing public that Labour and the other London parties would deliver "not just Devo Max, but Devo SUPER Max" in the event of a No vote, and given in particular that no correction was subsequently issued by the London parties and that we are therefore entitled to conclude that they are perfectly serious about delivering "Devo SUPER Max", why not nominate Galloway as Labour's representative once again, and allow him to get on with the task of delivering Devo SUPER Max in person?  I know I speak for all of us when I say that we're beside ourselves with excitement at the thought of finding out what Devo SUPER Max will actually look like - presumably it'll involve the devolution of some of the foreign affairs or defence powers that we wouldn't get with plain old Devo Max.

Alternatively, they could appoint Gordon Brown and let him get on with delivering the "near federalism" that he promised.  Before the referendum, the message to London was very short : "True Love Isn't Possessive".  Now, it's even more straightforward : "Words Have Meanings".

49 comments:

  1. The political earthquake just keeps going. :-D

    Joe Middleton ‏@freescotlandnow 57m

    The SNP now has 70,000 members. Join here: https://my.snp.org/join






    "Words Have Meanings".

    Indeed they do. So for the out of touch westminster bubble twits, here it is again.

    *DevoMAX - All powers apart from foreign affairs and defence.

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  2. James, Labour are already trying to downplay Brown's comments as merely being campaign rhetoric, and they will likely do a deal with the Tories. This deal would probably see all income tax devolved to Holyrood with several welfare powers, and the Barnett formula will either be scrapped, or reduced severely. We will get no oil revenues, or major taxation powers, such as corporation tax. It looks like we are going to get completely shafted. Ruth Davidson is already crowing about the deal being good for the centre-right, which presumably includes SLAB now as well. If this is what happens, the SNP should not have anything to do with it. This is the kind of deal Wings Over Scotland was talking about.

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  3. @Mick Pork

    There is no chance that the British establishment is going to give Scotland Devo max after we rejected independence.

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  4. @Mick Pork

    There is no chance that the British establishment is going to give Scotland Devo max after we rejected independence.

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  5. REEEEALLY? Well that IS a surprise. The thought hadn't even occurred to me.

    LOL

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  6. Cheers for being obnoxious...

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  7. "after we rejected independence."

    Cheers for letting the cat out of the bag. We in the 45 didn't. The 55 in the No campaign did.

    Also it would help if you got your facts right. The British establishment rejected DevoMAX by vehemently refusing to put it on the ballot. This despite all the later last-minute desperate talk from Labour, tories and the lib dems of DevoMAX along with the hopelessly biased BBC and other westminster bubble media.

    Talk we did actually notice, took note of and fully intend to hold them to, just in case you still don't understand James article.

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  8. Anyway, leaving the spammers and trolls to one side...

    "Given that Labour showed such inspiring ecumenicism by nominating George Galloway of all people to directly speak on their behalf at the big referendum TV debate at the Hydro"

    Who better considering his extraordinary precognition, having a clue what he's talking about and "cat like" reflexes when he's made a complete twat of himself.

    Like so. ;-)



    @alexbaskhanov Sep 26

    Galloway claims SNP have backed war in Iraq. *next day* SNP votes against Iraq involvement.

    Veridis Quo ‏@METAKNlGHT Sep 27

    I see George Galloway has deleted all his SNP - Iraq tweets.



    *chortle*

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  9. 'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'


    Every unionist politician clearly takes the same view

    ReplyDelete
  10. @Mick Pork

    I am a Yes voter. Why would we get Devo max after rejecting independence?

    ReplyDelete
  11. Read James article since you somehow still don't understand it. Or keep spamming away despite the fact that all James regulars know the score by now on anonotrolls and you're self-evidently wasting your time.

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  12. Anon Yes voter : Because we were invited to vote against independence on the specific basis that Devo SUPER Max would be delivered instead? I mean, call me naive, but that seems like quite a good reason...

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  13. Who the hell do you think you are? I am a Yes supporter. I voted Yes, I am a SNP voter and soon to be a member. I am getting very, very angry at being called a troll.

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  14. That post was not directed at you James.

    ReplyDelete
  15. For those actually interested in the topic, instead of pointlessly spamming James site, this also gets to the heart of it.

    'Let's call it Devo Max'

    Those were the words of Jackie Bird on September 9th, a mere 9 days before the independence referendum.

    One day earlier Gordon Brown had surprised everyone by promising even more powers than was previously on offer should Scots vote No. The former Labour leader described the prize as 'Home Rule' and announced a timetable within which legislation would be drawn up.

    The Better Together campaign was in turmoil and that weekend had just witnessed a shock new poll which put Yes ahead by 2 points - 51% to 49%. Better Together's own private polling, according to BBC reporter Laura Kuenssberg, had put Yes further ahead on 53%.

    The polling was enough to spook the No campaign, and a panicked Gordon Brown upped their offer.

    When Jackie Bird then promoted the idea that Scots were now being offered Devo Max, Alistair Darling was only too happy to accept the Reporting Scotland presenter’s description of the new powers. Darling then went on to tell viewers to the early evening news programme that legislation would be in place by November.

    A pledge made in panic has now become an albatross around the neck of the three Unionist parties.

    Alex Salmond was the first to signal the intention of the SNP to pursue Westminster over the Home Rule pledge. The person widely expected to replace him as First Minister repeated the intent with language that left her opponents in no doubt that Scotland will not tolerate anything less than full honouring of the Brown/Darling pledge.

    Yesterday, in her formal speech where she publicly announced her candidacy for the soon to be vacated role of leader of the SNP, Nicola Sturgeon said:

    "Through Gordon Brown's speaking we were told - with the authority of each of the parties in the Better Together campaign - The promise was clear and it was unmistakeable.

    "This package would be 'Home Rule' and something near to federalism

    "Well, let me say this to Westminster on behalf of Scotland - it had better be.

    "If the UK parties move forward in that spirit, they will have, in me, a willing partner for progress.

    "If not, they will pay a heavy political price - not because I say so but because the people of Scotland will make it so."

    Whether we call it, as Jackie Bird did, Devo Max or as Gordon Brown did Home Rule, one thing is now certain, the three Unionist parties are now suffering from one almighty post-indyref hangover and it will last until May next year when the UK general election takes place.

    The SNP has been quick out of the traps and are already ensuring voters who voted No in the hope of more powers, do not forget what extra powers were pledged.

    These are the voters Labour is trying to win back in Scotland, having lost them to the Yes Alliance parties. But how will these voters react if, by the time of the UK general election, there is no sign of Home Rule or Devo Max?

    http://www.newsnetscotland.scot/index.php/scottish-opinion/9787-lets-call-it-devo-max

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  16. @Mick Chops

    Did you ever consider that I am a very disappointed Yes voter, who does not think we will get anything worth a damn out of a committee headed up by a former BBC and Weir Group man?

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  17. Who cares what Jackie Bird, Darling and Brown say, they are only interested in their own careers? None are in a position to see that there promises are kept. We have been conned again, see 1979.

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  18. You have been comprehensively answered but either don't understand or don't want to listen to the answers. Again, feel free to keep spamming away if you are delusional enough think it's doing you any good but you sure as shit aren't contributing to the discussion in any meaningful way.

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  19. "Who cares what Jackie Bird, Darling and Brown say"

    Unspoofable. Keep digging. :-)

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  20. James, is there anyway I can contact you?

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  21. @Mick Pork

    Darling and Brown are headed for the Lords. They cannot deliver anything, and neither are they any position to do so. Jackie Bird is a BBC Jockney TV presenter. How can she deliver anything?

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  22. Will Mackie ‏@will__mackie Sep 26

    MP for Inverclyde - Ian Mckenzie was sacked by Labour for voting AGAINST war on Iraq. Labour are dying and I can't wait.


    Kristofer Keane ‏@KristoferKeane Sep 26

    Inverclyde MP Iain MacKenzie sacked as a parliamentary aide for voting against bombing Iraq. Someone sending him an SNP membership form?




    Just in case there are any who somehow still don't grasp the enormity and complete and utter stupidity of the path the out of touch westminster twits have set themselves out on in Iraq. Here's a former commanding officer of the SAS pointing out the obvious. That the bombing is utterly pointless without a comprehensive political solution to the Iraq Civil War. A political solution which will be made impossible by the bombing which will obviously intensify the carnage and bloodshed.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/iraq-crisis-get-the-politics-right-then-the-plan-for-the-military-might-work-9759924.html


    Also a reminder (since the Chilcot Iraq Inquiry cannot be delayed forever) of just why we are where we are and why those repeating the Blairite chickenhawk stance on Iraq had best think again.



    LIBER ‏@fliberdigibbet 1h

    Tony Blair should face trial over Iraq war, says Desmond Tutu http://gu.com/p/3a6v4/tw via @guardian

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  23. @Anonymous said...
    Who cares what Jackie Bird, Darling and Brown say,

    It might have something to do with the fact that Better Together was the Westminster government's political campaign and so anyone at the top of that campaign spoke on behalf of the UK government. Simple really.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Anon : My email address is displayed at the top of the sidebar.

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  25. Ruth Davidson giddy at the standing applause that greeted her podium entrance at conf today. Basking in the congregation's appreciation at her rescue of the sacred union, she assured all present that she would ensure its existence for "another 300 years".
    Carried away, another cat escaped the bag. She relished what her party has in store under the " new powers". Including a big note of thanks, aimed at the over 60s, one supposes " and No more free passes"

    The vote is over. But the promises mean that there is still a very much a live game in play here. They know that if the timetable is discarded, the implications for May 2015, already hard to guess, adds to the inevitable volatility coming over the horizon. Ukip, EU, WLQ etc
    & As wee ginger dug so eloquently puts it, we're not going back in the shortbread tin either. Not ever again.

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  26. @Mick Pork.
    'Anon' has just posted on Wings about you calling him a troll.
    He isn't a troll, and goes by the name of Muttley79 on Wings.
    You need to stop calling every 'anon' poster a troll, mate.

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  27. "'Anon' has just posted on Wings about you calling him a troll"

    Yeah, we've noticed there aren't any trolls on wings Juteman. It's been a calm haven of stability of late, hasn't it?


    "You need to stop calling every 'anon' poster a troll, mate. "


    While they need to learn that some of us have been on James site for longer than five minutes so if they hurl insults and act like we don't know what we are talking about they might just get a mouthful back.

    Nor is it any secret James site has been spammed by trolls for weeks so I'll take it under advisement and merely point out that whining about me on another site is rank fucking cowardice.

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  28. Hey Muttley, user your name rather than anon.

    We do get lots of concern trolls on here and it can be hard to tell the difference.

    ReplyDelete
  29. @Scottish Skier

    I thought that using Anonymous would be the simplest name to use.

    @Mick Pork

    You were the one that was being insulting by calling me a troll. As for cowardice, well you were not exactly listening to what I was saying now were you? I think I will leave this site, I cannot be bothered to be treated like this by this Mick Pork character.

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  30. " As for cowardice, well you were not exactly listening to what I was saying now were you?"


    You takin the piss son? You were informed multiple times that we are WELL AWARE that the out of touch westminster parties are hardly going to give us DevoMAX and you ignored it. You then proceeded to try and tell us that the promises of Brown and 'better together' might be worthless. Again, if you had been listening you might have understood that we knew that from the instant the words came out of the biased BBC and "crash" Gordon's mouth. We highlighted it on here at the time and in GREAT depth.

    Somehow you are still completely missing the point which was implicit in James article and everything we have said. It's the No campaign and all their westminster cheerleaders who have it all to prove after their statements no DevoMAX and Home Rule.

    If they don't deliver them then they will face the consequences from the scottish voter because they are already looking like a bunch of liars after ditching their timetable and backtracking furiously already.

    "I thought that using Anonymous would be the simplest name to use. "

    And yet if you had simply put Muttley into the name URL I would have known who you are whereas you don't seem to know anything about me or indeed James site since it's hardly just Wings who have been at the forefront of the IndyRef debate online.

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  31. @Mick Pork

    You do not really do apologising do you? You falsely accused me of being a troll, and never apologised, despite it being pointed out to you by someone else. Instead you keep on ranting on and on. What a really nice individual you are.

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  32. @Mick Pork

    You clearly have not heard of the word misunderstanding. If you had you would not have ranted and slavered on in your last post.

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  33. "You do not really do apologising do you?"

    Let me check, nope, it wasn't me who couldn't be arsed ton simply put muttley into the Name/URL nor was it me who whined about me and insulted me on another site so your "nice individual" passive aggressive bullshit doesn't cut any ice after that chum.

    Again, if you simply didn't understand James article or the issues innvolved you might have saved us all great deal of time just admitting it in the first place.

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  34. Mick, seems it is muttley, and I remember when muttley first joined wings way back when it was a minnow site.

    Use yer name muttley; makes life easier mate.

    Spend time on here and you'll see why; anon's are always on here 'concerned'.

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  35. @chalks

    Nice. Anyone who has spent any time on James site will know we have been deluged by Anonymous concern trolls for the past few weeks and months.

    I have no problem with people disagreeing with James articles and the issues he raises but when they repeatedly do so and ignore the blatantly obvious, even when it's pointed out to them again and again, then they are hardly going to be taken very seriously now, are they?

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  36. Scottish_Skier

    I know who muttley is. I was also on wings back then but not posting that much. Fact is I also spent time on sites that were anything but uniformly Indy so was under attack by racists, bigots and trolls constantly. Which might be why I have less tolerance for those who ignore the facts and then act 'outraged' when challenged on them.

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  37. @Mick Pork

    Still no apology from you for calling me a troll. Dry your eyes, I posted on Wings because you were being obnoxious. As for passive aggressive, well if you come on and make genuine posts, and someone immediately starts sniping at you and calling you a troll, I mean why would you get angry at that? I am not sorry I posted on Wings because I was not getting listened too on here.

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  38. Anyway, now that we've had the 'outrage' out of the way, (and Muttley needs to ask himself why I didn't just post on Wings to return the 'favour' because I certainly could have and I doubt he would have been to pleased to see his nonsense challenged robustly) back to more uplifting things.


    Radical Scotland ‏@RadicalScotland 3h

    MEMBERSHIP
    SNP 70 000
    Scottish Labour 13 000
    Scottish Cons 12 000
    Scottish Green 6 200
    Scottish Lib Dem 3 000 https://opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/adam-ramsay/quick-note-on-party-memberships-in-uk …”


    Radical Scotland ‏@RadicalScotland 3h

    The SNP membership now has a'market penetration' that would be the equivalent of 875000 members for a UK-wide party. Never achieved.

    :-)

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  39. This "anonymous" posting is a damned nuisance TBH - it's caused problems before.

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  40. @Mick Pork

    What nonsense is that? You have a major problem with me posting on Wings for some reason. I was being accused of being a troll on here, and you refused to listen to what I was saying. That was why I posted on Wings. Anyway I can't be bothered with this any longer.

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  41. Aye smerral.

    James, I totally agree with not blocking posts; let people speak from both sides.

    However, the anon name is crap and makes a mess of things, contributing to arguments etc, if simply down to confusion.

    Jeez, folk can call themselves '1' if they want. Hardly a hassle. The post form even remembers you so you only need to do it once.

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  42. @smerral

    It's been raised again and again but this is James site so his is the last word on site policy.

    It takes seconds to put something into the Name/URL so it's hardly some terrible fucking burden to do so.

    Fact is we also very recently had some trolling twat pretend to be another poster attacking James so there is no foolproof solution. The few seconds it takes to put a name in a box is at least a start for those who somehow still don't get it.

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  43. Anyhoo..

    Pretty good article on Newsnet for those who haven't seen it yet.

    Poll analysis boost for SNP as party enjoys incredible membership surge

    Analysis of opinion polling this week has provided the latest indication of the strong growth in support for the SNP ahead of next year’s Westminster election.

    The combined level of support for the SNP recorded in the Scottish sub-samples of daily opinion polls by YouGov this week for the UK General Election has the nationalists on 38.6 per cent, compared to support for Labour at 29.3 per cent.

    The polling boost coincides with news that membership of the party has rocketed by 45,000 members since the referendum - from some 25,000 members to 70,000.

    The SNP has now overtaken the Lib Dems as the third biggest political party in the UK and its membership is now greater than the three Unionist parties in Scotland combined.

    Meanwhile, a Survation poll for the Mail on Sunday last week put support for the SNP at the next Holyrood election at 49 per cent - an incredible four points up on 2011

    http://www.newsnetscotland.scot/index.php/scottish-politics/9796-poll-analysis-boost-for-snp-as-party-enjoys-incredible-membership-surge

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  44. Mick, I know there are trolls, but its pretty clear it isnt a troll, chill out min

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  45. chalks it's clear now we know it's muttley but the few seconds it would have taken him to type that in would have stopped the pointless arguing from when he first called me "obnoxious".

    But you know what? Life's too fucking short and I will NEVER stop fighting for what I believe in and simply don't have the time for petty grievances between Yes supporters. So if muttley seriously thinks it's all my fault then fine, he can have his apology.

    I'm sorry muttley.

    You have been told precisely why some of us react as we do when anonymous posters seem not to understand what we say.

    If me saying sorry isn't good enough for you then there's nothing I can do to change that.

    If you need any proof of where I stand then James will inform you of my complete commitment to independence and a better scotland. I can personally assure you that I did everything in my power to help in the independence campaign including helping at Yes shops, stalls, leafleting, being a polling agent and raising awareness as much as I was able.

    I will be doing so again sooner than they think as will we all.

    Devolution took two tries. A Holyrood majority took two tries. Independence will take two tries and when we do get it we will make a better scotland for everyone.

    It would be nice of muttley to return the favour for insulting me here and on wings but I don't need him to. If he's big enough to accept the apology then what's done is done.

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  46. I see that the leader of the Lib Dems, a traditionally and theoretically federalist party (even if they have never actually done anything about it), is now calling devo max 'ultra-extreme devolution'. Wow, we are extremists for calling for federalism. Does the good stuff ever start with Willie Rennie.

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  47. Brown will only turn up if the meetings are held in a 5 star hotel overseas.

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