Saturday, March 29, 2014

Sagacity on Saturday : The indispensable building-block of true 'Hothersallism'

"It is impossible for one to be internationalist without being a nationalist.  Internationalism is possible only when nationalism becomes a fact, when peoples belonging to different countries have organised themselves and are able to act as one man."

Said by Mahatma Ghandi, anti-imperialist spiritual leader of India. Which is a strikingly similar sentiment to...

"Without nationalism, there can be no internationalism."

Said by Robert Bontine Cunninghame Graham, Britain's first socialist MP, co-founder with Keir Hardie of the original Scottish Labour Party (and thus forefather of the 'international movement' to which our old friend Duncan Hothersall insists he still subscribes), and first President of the SNP. His most famous quote is probably this one -

"The enemies of Scottish Nationalism are not the English, for they were ever a great and generous folk, quick to respond when justice calls. Our real enemies are among us, born without imagination."

43 comments:

  1. There needs to be a greater emphasis on what scumbags the English really are

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  2. Surely the yes campaign needs to be more explicitly anti-English to close the final gap in the polls? Hatred of the Auld Enemy is the thing that binds Scots together more than anything.

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  3. I see we have a Labourite British nationalist writing sh*t* about anti-Englishness to try and pretend that the independence debate is about that - what a wnkr.

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  4. I'm Scots-American looking forward to helping you guys kick the fucking sassanachs!

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  5. I'm also fairly certain that th eperson commenting about anti-English hatred is probably an English British nationalist because a Scottish BritNat would n=know how little credit one gives to such psh.

    Fk off dckhead.

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  6. So you agree the English are dckheads?

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  7. You have an infestaton James.

    *Scritch scratch*

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  8. With the so-called "Borderlands Initiative" Scotland is making a lamdgrab for the Northern English Counties. I'm not sure how this will allow for harmonious relations with England

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  9. With the so-called "Borderlands Initiative" Scotland is making a lamdgrab for the Northern English Counties. I'm not sure how this will allow for harmonious relations with England

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  11. Yes Conon, I suspect some sort of campaign here. A bit obvious, all posted as "Anonymous". I wonder who is the conductor...

    Apart from the very obvious "auld enemy" of international football matches, I see very little evidence of any widespread anti-English feeling and certainly not among supporters of independence. What there is tends to be equally matched on the other side of the border, as is only too readily demonstrated in the comments sections of the Mail, Independent and Telegraph.

    I went to school in England and was "ribbed" for being a jock. Sometimes it was friendly; sometimes slightly less so...

    But we were schoolboys. Schoolboys (and girls) do that kind of thing to each other. If they don't have a nationality issue to play with, it will be over ginger hair, or curly hair, a prominent nose, big feet or these days, a phone that is more than 3 months old or supermarket trainers.

    When I think about my neighbours, although most of them are elderly, largely uneducated people, who complain about the influx of Eastern Europeans ("they bloody Poles is everywhere"), I have never once heard any of them express an anti English thought.

    The Britnats seem to me to exaggerate this nonsense. I'm not sure what advantage they think it will give them.

    I hate the generalisations of statements like Duncan's. It seems to be the kind of nonsense so beloved of politicians who talk about theirs being the 'greatest country in the world'.

    The character of the English, or the Brits cannot be generalised any more than can that of any other nationality.

    I've travelled a lot and my experience is wherever you go there are the same sorts of people. By and large, nut jobs excluded, people the world over are "great and generous, and quick to respond to needs". From the old woman in Laos who treated my brother when he was stung by a weird looking scorpion and refused any payment despite being dirt poor, to the lad next door who took pity on me when I went to work in France and didn't know who to deal with over the telephone bill!

    Duncan seems to be saying that the English are possessed of great qualities, and the Scots are at fault; born without imagination.

    Really we deserve a more considered and "sagacious" argument.

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  12. The most recent research conducted on the subject is now nearly a decade old, but then Glasgow University's William Miller and Asifa Hussain found that over one third (38 percent) of Scots surveyed expressed Anglophobia and SNP voters registering a "high rate of Anglophobia". Based on my own personal experience, previously posted on these board but simply dismissed, it would seem these attitudes have increased with the rise in the popularity of the SNP.

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  13. You can kid on all you want guys but at the end of the day it is the English. If it was not we woud not be fighting for our country back. Not the English people par say but the people who elect these people to do their dirty work for them. Most of you wouldn't know nationalism if it jumped up and bit your noses. This is why we have foreign dictators running our country. Stealing our wealth which is intended for this country and it's people. So aye knock yourself out with your bullshit and start censoring our fellow scots as you don't like to offend. See if our kids in the future agree with your approach. It is you who are costing us our country.

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  14. Must be a slow newsday at Pacific Quay.

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  15. Mak - I salute you for saying what we down south already know. It's all about the English.

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  16. Yeah mate. If your politicians were not all crooks and no Gooders. we could all be living decent honest life's. But due to them not being decent law abiding citizens. Thousands of my kin are suffering whilst millions of yours are living the dream. So aye I do blame the English mate. The blame lies firmly at their door. As for the English people who vote for these monsters. You are voting them in. What the fek do you want us to do? Just sit here and watch our kids be enslaved for life? Hopefully after the 18th. You parasites will have no more influence in our great wee country. You can live the dream without my people suffering for it. Alba gu brath.

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  17. And people on this site have been telling me there is no antipathy towards the English in Scotland. Thank you for confirming that you do hate us and blown the contention of others here out of the water! I'm a parasite!

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    1. The antipathy is coming from you lot mate. Always has and always will. All my people want is their country back from you wastes of spaces. For over 300 years you have mismanaged my country and now my people are suffering due to it. Troll all you like mate. You are the reason we need to rid ourselfs of the unjust and corrupt. Which is England. Our peoples survival depends on it and everyone in our wee country knows it too. So troll troll troll. After the 18th you will find out how bad your political class is when they no Scottish money to play with. They will turn on their own. You!

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    3. So you say (1) we are a waste of space and (2) there is no antipathy towards us? Stunning logic there.

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    4. Where is the logic In burying the mccrone report for 30 years? For over 30 years your government was aware of my countries potential. 3 generations denied a decent life so your people could prosper at my people's expense. This is not counting what yous did to us hundreds of years ago. Infact if we actually look right into it. The English are anything but decent people. You stole our lands water oil. Now you want to work us to death and enslave our kids. The peeps on here who are supporting you people are forgetting the suffering of our own. I understand the reasons I just can't bow to them. Our.days of bowing too foreign dictators will hopefully be over after this year. Goodbye to you sir. I will let others now rise to your bait. Alba gu brath.

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    5. The race hate of the Scot Nats

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  19. Marty P. The P stands for prick obviously.

    How's life in bliar mcliar's office?

    Must be hell working for such an odious shit as him?

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  20. Marty P. The P stands for prick obviously.

    How's life in bliar mcliar's office?

    Must be hell working for such an odious shit as him?

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  21. I have no illusion that we are "Better Together" with a people that, as Mak Mcgarve evidences, believe us to be better off dead.

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  22. LOL...

    I think you forget that Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, who did a considerable amount of the damage, were Scottish.

    I can hate Thatcher and Cameron without hating the English; Likewise I can hate Brown and Blair without hating the Scots.

    I don't know where you live Mr MrGarv but there must be some pretty bitter people there.

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  23. Thanks, Tris, I entirely agree.(Except maybe about Blair's Scottishness - he supported England against Scotland in Euro 96, after all!)

    I have no absolute proof of this, but let's just say it's intriguing that our new resident troll MartyP popped up again so soon after the bogus comments at the top of the thread (that were very obviously posted by an English person pretending to be an anti-English "Scottish American"). An astonishing coincidence, at the very least.

    Incidentally, "MsMehitabel" appears to be his American wife's Blogger account. One of the things "she" posted earlier was that the Cunninghame Graham quote (I don't know which one) was an invention and had been "thoroughly debunked". Does your hasty deletion of that claim mean that you've withdrawn it, Marty? If not, could you post a link to the debunking?

    Finally, could I just appeal to everyone to tone down the swearing slightly? I hardly ever moderate comments, but I'll do it for over-the-top swearing if it becomes necessary.

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  24. "The English are anything but decent people. You stole our lands water oil. Now you want to work us to death and enslave our kids.

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  25. I suppose Mak Mcgarv is me as well is he?

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  26. "I suppose Mak Mcgarv is me as well is he?"

    I'm less suspicious about those posts, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out.

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  27. My only issue with th SNP is the fiction that there is no Angliphobia in Scottish nationalism. If we can agree there is (at the very least) some then I will go away. The postings of Mak, who is verifiably not me, demonstrate the truth of the matter.

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  28. "My only issue with th SNP is the fiction that there is no Angliphobia in Scottish nationalism."

    Yes, we know why you posted those bogus comments, both on this thread and the previous one - it was an attempt to "prove" your basic premise. You didn't actually have to spell that out.

    You've been rumbled. It happens. Maybe try a more subtle approach next time?

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  29. Let me make this clear as possible. (1) I am not "Mak Mcarv" (2) I am not "anonymous" (3) yes Msmehitabel is my wife and I withdraw that comment as I was wrong (I was thinking of Hugh MacDiarmid, the SNP candidate who listed Anglophobia amongst his hobbies in his Who's Who entry) and also because I was accidentally signed into her account. Do I make myself clear on that? I have no need to pretend to be someone else.

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  30. Well, as I said I have no absolute proof. But let me put it this way - I have been writing this blog since May 2008, and in that time out-and-out anti-English commenters have been rarer than Tory MPs in Scotland. And yet you pop up with your "the SNP is riven with Anglophobia" claim, and suddenly we have an infestation right on cue. How remarkably convenient.

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  31. Well Tory MP's a pretty rare in Scotland I'll grant you but they're a lot less rare than SNP representatives in England, Wales & NI. That does not stop the SNP lecturing us on what currency options would be best for this country come independence for you. That may have something to do with the increased interest perhaps?

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  32. Why would increased interest from England lead to an increase in the number of anti-English comments on this blog? Unless of course it was English people pretending to be...ah yes, I see what you mean.

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  33. Once again I have at no point pretended to be something I am not. Stop pretending I have with no evidence whatsoever. Indeed the one time that might have happened (when I signed in as my wife) I deleted the post for reasons set out. But obviously, as an Englishman, my word on this is not to be trusted, as Mr Mak made abundantly clear, we can't be trusted as a people.

    Let me leave this with the 2006 Hussain and Millar paper "‘The Civility of Civic Nationalism’ & ‘Inclusive and Exclusive Attitudes towards Minorities in Post-devolution Scotland’" (University of Glasgow) which found that Scottish nationalism, on the other hand - with either a small 'n' or a capital 'N' - has a "fairly strong" impact on anti-Englishness at street level (though not at SNP leadership level), with SNP voters registering a "high rate of Anglophobia".

    I suppose they were hiding behind a false identity and lying too?

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  34. "Once again I have at no point pretended to be something I am not. Stop pretending I have with no evidence whatsoever."

    While you were writing that post, I was busy checking my stats. I won't give away your personal details, but I am now 99% sure that you were responsible for the bogus comments at the start of this thread. A user at your IP address clicked the comment link on this thread just thirty seconds or so before the first comment was posted. That user then clicked the comment link on countless other occasions before you first "officially" pop up under your wife's name at 12.15pm.

    You've been caught out. Accept it.

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  35. As a regular visitor to your blog I don't recall any obvious "anti-english" commentary. This outbreak of comment on the subject is entirely down to the individual concerned. Whatever the persons motives, the objective evidence seems to be that they wish to bring the subject up. A poster to be ignored.

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  36. No I won't accept it because it's not true. Understand?

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  37. You know, I feel I need to point something out:

    I was bullied for being English when I went to primary school in Scotland. That is the *ONLY* time in my live my place of birth has mattered to anyone other than the banks, passport people, etc... (I got bullied more in high school, but that was because I was a stuck-up loner who didn't really know how to talk to people, and I seem to have a neon sign stuck over my head saying "I'm the comic relief")

    Where you were born doesn't really matter to the majority of people.

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